Let’s hope so. A decent wheelie bin in return and he’s theirs
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic | Factual updates only
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
With Neves inside.
My post isn’t directed to you personally but more of a general response.
Ask yourself if you want to live in a world where we don’t give people a second chance?
Despite the mobile recording and all the awful things that’s on that tape we talk about a very young man who clearly needs help with anger management. I’m not defending him in any way, just so that is clear, but I defend his right to get a second chance without being publicly called names whenever a supporter wants to venting his anger or position himself on social media. Domestic violence is a complex problem where the public probably only see a fraction of what’s going on, both before and after any incident.
Football is Greenwood’s job and how he earns money. Where do we draw the line?
The legal system has closed the case.
Manchester United F.C has listened to the public opinion.
Supporters and others have aired theirs strong opinions clear on social media and everywhere it’s possible.
That’s ok even if I personally don’t like this new ‘canceling”culture. To move on we sooner or later have to ask ourselves when the condemning becomes counter productive? If former “prisoners” have no way back what’s the point to change and to become a better person?
As I wrote many months ago my youngest daughter was raped and a victim of domestic violence. My wife since 12 years was abused in her first marriage where her ex husband constantly used violence, didn’t participated in the household, refused to share common money and later tried to kill her by using a gun. Unfortunately Brazil don’t have the recourses to protect those who needs to be protected and their legal system is so corrupted that the chances to get some sort of justice is slim. I say this just so you hopefully understand that I don’t take domestic violence lightly, but if I disconnect my heart and use my head I realize that it’s more complicated than just get rid of the abuser.
Hopefully can young man or women who has committed domestic violence can get some counseling after they have service their punishment. Mason has a child together with the “victim”. As a father and grandfather who has been there and seen some of the the consequences I hope they all can manage to move on and find peace and happiness.
To keep on ‘punish’ him on internet over and over again doesn’t help him with his problems and it reduces his chances to take care of his family. I fully understand those of you who do this (on internet) but maybe we should ask ourself when it’s time to turn the page? There’s a young child who probably suffer from this tragedy, maybe we should calm down sometimes and think about our responsibility to him/her also?
he will still earn millions playing football. how much more of a second chance does he deserve than that?
Actually if he doesn't play for a big club (Like Manchester United), I don't think it's a given that he would earn millions.
He will survive just fine .
I’m sure that many of us will turn the page when he’s no longer associated with Manchester United
You must be on the wind up, that is an absolutely deranged post.
Posts like this are the worst, hold a different opinion, debate it, explain why you disagree but mindlessly slating the post and leaving no structural argument is just something I expect of an infant.
I agree with him, to be honest. This ‘second chance’ theme is preposterous, yet it keeps being repeated. There is a very high chance that he has committed an offence, and not faced the commensurate punishment. That on its own is a second chance. Do you know who doesn’t get a second chance? Victims of domestic and sexual violence. They have to live with it forever. I have family members and friends that have suffered such incidents, and most of them never fully recover. THEY are the ones that are being denied a second chance.
What Greenwood has received is so far away from a second chance, to the point he will be living a life more privileged that virtually everyone else in society, it is actually offensive when posters say things like ‘don’t you believe in second chances?’. Just think about how absurd that sounds for a minute.
Not wanting an abusive scrote like Greenwood at the club is nothing to do with cancel culture and is more about simply having standards. He is still getting paid massive sums of money to play football so he is not cancelled and is still living his first chance never mind needing a second chance. For your other points, I would suggest reading the thread before commenting again as they have all been raised and answered time and time again and you really did not offer anything new to the discussion.
A post like that cannot be debated for the simple fact that every point it raises has been asked and answered many times over in this thread. At this point when people write posts like that they are either knowingly posting in bad faith or they are too lazy to read the thread even in brief before posting and they get what they deserve.
1) In order to be given a second chance (in any meaningful sense), you need to acknowledge that you've fecked up and ask for it (the second chance). Greenwood hasn't done that.
2) The use of the term itself ("second chance") is inappropriate (perverse even) in this context. Mason Greenwood isn't rotting in a hovel somewhere, eating noodles, he is playing football at the top level, making more money than most of us could dream of.
Ok then, this is what I disagree with:
- Making out that Greenwood deserves a second chance while he lives in Spain and makes millions of pounds playing football.
- The fact he refers to the victim as “victim”.
- Calling it a tragedy while doing his best Helen Lovejoy impression and asking us to please think of the children.
Although it was that ridiculous of a post I genuinely couldn’t tell if it was satire or not.
Is something happening here. Goldbridge is tweeting that he’s gone
All fair points, at least it gives him something to respond to.
No problem with any of that, I didn't say I disagreed with him just think people tend to come in very hostile/ sarcastic rather than give others the benefit of the doubt and engage meaningfully, end of the day the point of typing your argument or your opinion is to try to convince the other side your view has more merit, not to insult some random person on the internet or to try and make people look stupid, too many do this "Anti - Arguing" style, I just wish there was more meaningful debate.
Then don't engage with it, you cancel your own argument stating "It cannot be debated" by saying it's been answered several times, perhaps he hasn't scoured every page on the thread and we can give him the benefit of the doubt and perhaps point him to one of those posts? He may not know how to find them, I understand it's frustrating but I find the hostility so strange for someone who simply holds a different view to you.
Think that was in reference to the fact his father has been to Portugal to discuss a deal with Benfica.
In fairness, if you want more meaningful debate, maybe you should also be calling out those making disingenuous and lazy arguments, too. I only ever seem to see you calling out posters that want to see the back of Greenwood. I could be wrong on that, and in which case, I apologise.
I think it's more that those are the most oppressed/ cancelled here simply so law of averages and all that. Since this thread I've actually changed my position and don't want him back oddly (People can change their stance, not that you see much of it on here haha) - My view if you are interested is simply that it wouldn't work, I would have loved the footballer back because I'm quite black and white in terms of separating the footballer and person but it wouldn't be viable, the backlash etc would hurt him, us as a club and do far more negative than positive so I think the only choice is to move him on.
The poster obviously knows what this is about.
They posted in this tread a year ago (give or take), expressing pretty much the same views.
Still think he deserves a critical response but fair enough, he may be a wind up - I can't say but he came across as genuine to me
I have no reason to think that.
But the poster should know the case and should have a very good idea about what we're discussing in this thread.
I wouldn't really equate sarcastic or dismissive responses to posts as oppressing or cancelling someone. People being mean to you on a message board is just about the definition of a first world problem. I would engage with someone making a reasoned argument that brought something new to the table but it is hard to see it as anything other than a wind up when they trot out the same talking points that have been dismantled on every other page of this thread since it its inception. I am not talking about them needing to do a deep dive, just a cursory glance through a few pages will tell you the whole second chance/not convicted narrative has been debated to death.
To be fair @7even might have been genuine in his comments, he is a regular poster and longtime board member so I don't actually think he was trying to be a WUM. Most of these types of posts though seem to come from newbies who join the board pretty much for the purpose of posting the same garbage takes about Greenwood on this thread and are probably not even supporters of the club but seem to be a bunch of incels outraged at the thought that a man could face any consequences for the trivial act of beating and attempting to rape his partner.
Goldbridge doesn't even know what he's got for his dinner
I took some moment to reflect on what you and others are debating (maybe I should have uses another word but I try to be polite)and like I said before I fully understand those of you who, in your words, “having standards”.
My main argument isn’t about him returning to us or his right to earn money. That’s two separate discussions.
I also don’t hold grudges to those of you who still strongly condemn him, even if I don’t agree with all of the things that says on social media.
Giving someone a second chance is also about having standards.
To forgive is standards.
To move on despite all circumstances is also a type of having standard.
As father I know what it means to stay (in the family) even if my heart says otherwise. As grandfather I also have to convince my daughters “to stay” sometimes when the shit hits the fan. To give a second chance isn’t about accepting something, is to take a a holistic view about a complex situation where the “end goal” could be decades away.
I’m not defending Greenwoods actions. I’m not in any shape or form against those of you who want no connection with him. Once in in my younger days I also was more of a “black and white” guy. Please don’t see these words as offensive, because it’s not my intention to separate our choices as better or worse.
yeah but if you had to pick, which one is better?
It’s hilarious seeing some of these posters subtly taking the moral high ground.
I don't disagree it's a first world problem but that doesn't make it right or constructive and at this point there was nothing new past the first few pages of the thread in fairness, maybe it's just me but I'm of the opinion that if I'm not going to debate it constructively, I don't engage or I'll link to a post with a response - Anyway it's not a big deal but at this stage the only thing new are the clubs being linked to him which seem to be mainly Juventus, Benfica & Atletico and I think we would get the most from Benfica so I'm hoping that happens.
Also rumours Juventus offer us a 20 year old English wingback as a part player exchange, I forget the name...
ah, i’m just a whippersnapper. i long for the day i mature and realise a little bit of rape might be ok. my immature mind cannot currently comprehend such an outcome but i’m sure that will change in time, god willing.
Makeweight in a deal for Neves?
I think in FFP terms it's better to sell him for 40 and buy Neves for 80 rather than swap Greenwood + 40 otherwise your deflating your sales
This post is about me and not about Greenwood.
The one thing that shocks me is how young he is.
He is 22 now and was probably 21 years old or younger maybe 20 when he abused his partner.
I think about how i was when i was 21 & i had just gone to university, no money except student loans, drinking everyday, going out clubbing everyday, smoking drugs, trying to attract girls and was no where near an adult at that age. I was such a kid at 21.
I do wonder how kids who are 20-21 with millions of pounds in their bank, driving Ferrari's, world known celebrities that could probably attract anybody of the opposite sex will be influencing their ego's and actions. I think this may be even why things like Rashford's charity work got such a big PR hype because it showed a soft side to a young football millionaire.
I remember how big headed i got for having the ability to just attract a few girls at 21 whilst having absolutely nothing in my wallet or life except my looks which weren't that great either.
Ive actually gone through anger issues post that age with both my own family & my partner because of my problem with serotonin hormone which comes from me being addicted to video gaming after playing video games non stop on drugs for 3 days which i then couldnt stop (stopped taking drugs bymyself but was addicted to video games & smart phones for years) and later got diagnosed and medicated for as a mental health issue called screen addiction which i had to deal with for over a decade now. I used to get angry and try make my partner get tattoos because i was addicted to porn at that age.
My partner stuck by me because she loved me and maybe knew it wasn't the real me and I've changed alot now where i feel like I've grown up and regret all my actions at that age. I used to treat my girlfriend like she's a porn star making her dress like a slut in public with minimal clothing but now I've changed and im much more caring and protective of her and want her to be treated as my princess with her happiness meaning much more to me than before when i was much more self centred and controlling of my partner due to a change of my personality which wasn't completely under my control during that time.
Im glad my personality has now changed and showing more 'true love' to my partner than 'fake love' which is the way how my partner called it.
No matter what happens to Greenwood as a footballer - i hope his personality changes, regret his mistakes and change for the better both for the benefit of himself and his partner.
The one thing that shocks me is how young he is.
He is 22 now and was probably 21 years old or younger maybe 20 when he abused his partner.
I think about how i was when i was 21 & i had just gone to university, no money except student loans, drinking everyday, going out clubbing everyday, smoking drugs, trying to attract girls and was no where near an adult at that age. I was such a kid at 21.
I do wonder how kids who are 20-21 with millions of pounds in their bank, driving Ferrari's, world known celebrities that could probably attract anybody of the opposite sex will be influencing their ego's and actions. I think this may be even why things like Rashford's charity work got such a big PR hype because it showed a soft side to a young football millionaire.
I remember how big headed i got for having the ability to just attract a few girls at 21 whilst having absolutely nothing in my wallet or life except my looks which weren't that great either.
Ive actually gone through anger issues post that age with both my own family & my partner because of my problem with serotonin hormone which comes from me being addicted to video gaming after playing video games non stop on drugs for 3 days which i then couldnt stop (stopped taking drugs bymyself but was addicted to video games & smart phones for years) and later got diagnosed and medicated for as a mental health issue called screen addiction which i had to deal with for over a decade now. I used to get angry and try make my partner get tattoos because i was addicted to porn at that age.
My partner stuck by me because she loved me and maybe knew it wasn't the real me and I've changed alot now where i feel like I've grown up and regret all my actions at that age. I used to treat my girlfriend like she's a porn star making her dress like a slut in public with minimal clothing but now I've changed and im much more caring and protective of her and want her to be treated as my princess with her happiness meaning much more to me than before when i was much more self centred and controlling of my partner due to a change of my personality which wasn't completely under my control during that time.
Im glad my personality has now changed and showing more 'true love' to my partner than 'fake love' which is the way how my partner called it.
No matter what happens to Greenwood as a footballer - i hope his personality changes, regret his mistakes and change for the better both for the benefit of himself and his partner.
Completely true. And well pointed out.
so let’s say, the negotiations are linked.
Time!
To be angry.
To be sad.
To reflect.
To search for guidance.
To heal and hopefully some day forgive.
In the case we’re discussing my goal is to change my feelings and stance with time.
It’s a long and sometimes painful journey but for those who take this road the benefits far outweigh the negative’s. Staying half full, positive and with the ability to forgiveness is way to keep the good spirit and to live longer.
Maybe this part is a little bit too deep for some but it hold grounds.
My grandmother who died 1980 with an age of 87 years said to me a few month before she died that the hardest thing in life is to forgive, forget and still love.
I remember the moment she said that like it was yesterday . It was so powerful and said with so much humility and love that even a young boy like I was at that time become totally quiet. I have used those words many times in my life and sometimes I have failed but without those words I would have lost a lot important people in my life.
Terrible, ignorant and misguided post.
People can change, thankfully.
And I'm very glad to hear that you have.
The problem with Greenwood and his case - in the context of United fans discussing him, as we do in this thread - is that some people use hopelessly generic arguments ("He was just a kid", "They have a baby now", "Everyone deserves a second chance") without any context whatsoever.
I sincerely hope Greenwood has grown up and that his entire family are well and happy.
That isn't relevant to my stance on whether United should take him back, though.
Read the thread, it's groundhog day. You prefer a loop of repetition?
The idea he is not getting a second chance is absurd.
What people are arguing for is zero repercussions and that's nonsense.