Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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Cascarino said:
I don’t care if he does or doesn’t play for your club again. What I do care about is people making arguments that both perpetuates a culture that leads to abusers being emboldened. There’s a long history of abusers with talent having rabid support, especially online. Which that picture you posted is a prime example of
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I completely get that, I agree with you. It's just an incredibly complex situation where what's best for her has to be no.1 priority, and her choices have to be respected.
 
DJ Jeff said:
So we're just going to assume that's the case here with zero evidence?
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There’s more to suggest that has happened than the flipping around of that argument

- fact she recorded it, suggests it’s happened more than once
- fact that he broke bail conditions to see her, got her pregnant and then she withdraws her allegations
 
Fridge chutney said:
This is impossible to know, and a dangerous conclusion to draw, given the alarming rate of domestic violence recidivism and reoccurrence.

And that is after accounting for the fact that many abusers who successfully stop abusing go through a lengthy process of therapy and acceptance of responsibility/accountability for their actions, the latter of which seems lacking in what we know about this situation, unfortunately.
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So we both are speculating. The difference is you think you are right. I don't know I'm right, I just feel most young adults should be given a second chance.
 
Raoul said:
He came on in the 68th minute after his side went down 4-2. Was involved in their goal to make it 4-3, made a promising run down the right wing, and got a curling shot off near FT, which the oppo keeper mishandled but managed to cover up. Based on his two appearances so far, he's probably ready for a bigger role beyond the usual 60th minute sub appearance.
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I'm not really sure on that. He does little to no pressing or tracking back and has only faced tired opposition, currently. The talent is definitely still there from shot creation and speed, but the conditioning looks way off to me.
 
Craig Ward said:
He's publicly stated he wants a fresh start and to resume his career.

He's not been found guilty of anything at all legally.

The victim has forgiven him, the victims family have forgiven him.

If it was a footballing decision he'd be playing for us, not loaned out to a poor Spanish team
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No he wouldn’t he’d either be playing loads of reserve team football or loaned out because it’s clear that he’s nowhere near what’s required for PL yet
 
golden_blunder said:
No he wouldn’t he’d either be playing loads of reserve team football or loaned out because it’s clear that he’s nowhere near what’s required for PL yet
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Solius said:
Exactly mate, who here hasn't had a family member or friend threaten to rape their partner? Just life innit.
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You guys are wasting your time.

This site sold out long ago and as much as we all don't want to accept something you put a lot of time into rots, it just does. Redcafe is and never was any different to any over social media of the times, the only difference now are the folks who value "free speech" and spout stuff they don't actually understand like "innocent until proven guilty" don't out rightly say what they think. Ironic, but depressingly true.
 
garelo said:
How do you know this is the case with her now, are you her counselor or something? For all we know she just might not want to see the father of her baby go to prison. If the victim is willing to give him second chance, why shouldnt we? we are nobody to their relationship anyway.
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You clearly seem like you never have had someone in the family being abused, well i have.

And the pictures and the tape is enough evidence for me to see abuse in this relationship.

Victims think they deserve beeing beat and get controlled and manipulated to think that its their fault. I have seen a family member defending the abuser when i wanted to beat him to pulp after someone told me what was going on behind closed doors.
 
Solius said:
Exactly mate, who here hasn't had a family member or friend threaten to rape their partner? Just life innit.
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More like an uncle or grandparent who might've once hit a woman before he was even born.

It was an emotional, dismissive response to a well constructed post.

Trequarista10 said:
Very true.

It's also much easier to distance yourselves when you don't know the person, or know the nuance. Yet we all have friends and family members who have done bad things yet we forgive and/or forget, because we empathise with the complex mix of circumstances that led to them doing those things.

It gets more difficult the worse the action, and the more distant the connection. In my job, one of the patients I have worked with the past few years is a convicted killer. Yet knowing his history and the circumstances, I know that he is isn't an evil person. He's a damaged individual who was in a near impossible situation, sought help but didn't receive any, and ended up making a decision that has cost him his freedom for decades, first prison, then forensic wards, and now he's still in the psychiatric system despite his criminal sentence expiring. He's genuinely one of the kindest patients I have worked with. I can't explain the circumstances for obvious reasons because they're fairly unique to his case, but what's sad is that some people are so black and white in their thinking they won't stop to consider what possible circumstances I'm alluding to because X simply = Y. On the flip side, there's a few staff, and plenty of "regular" citizens, who have respectable jobs and public image, and yet when you get to know them it's obvious they are narcissistic, manipulative and abusive and cause pain and turmoil wherever they go. I'd trust the convicted killer I work with, with my life, I wouldn't trust some of the staff with my car keys.
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Lash said:
I'm not really sure on that. He does little to no pressing or tracking back and has only faced tired opposition, currently. The talent is definitely still there from shot creation and speed, but the conditioning looks way off to me.
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Although a bit expectedly rusty, he seems surprisingly more match fit than I would've previously expected for a player who was unavailable for 18 months.
 
Abusian said:
I understand your point, of course, but the facts of this case are clear, uncontested and without apparent mitigation. To have MG back would be to actively look the other way, which I think many would find uncomfortable. My sister had the crap kicked out of her by her intimate partner. Like most abusers, he terrified her out of providing evidence for the case and the cops dropped it - a bit like this case. Speaking personally, the idea of playing football with someone like that would not be appealing to me at all. The idea that he’s walking around a free man, most likely doing it to other women, is infuriating.

Also, given we have a women’s team, perhaps we should be sending a message that we don’t hire people who abuse women.
So while I agree he would improve the team, I think there is a standard of basic behaviour that everyone needs to meet. Beating up and threatening women would fail to meet that standard, for me, even if the victim were subsequently dissuaded from testifying, as is the case here. Such a shame. He’s a fabulous player.
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The facts of this case are anything but clear. There was no trial so no opportunity to provide a defence.
 
Raoul said:
Although a bit expectedly rusty, he seems surprisingly more match fit than I would've previously expected for a player who was unavailable for 18 months.
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He seems to get the yard of space against a man and the shooting is still as accurate as ever on both feet. I agree, I did expect him to show more signs of rust being out that long.

The real test will to see what he's like after 45 mins or so, I just don't think he could physically do it right now.
 
Raoul said:
He came on in the 68th minute after his side went down 4-2. Was involved in their goal to make it 4-3, made a promising run down the right wing, and got a curling shot off near FT, which the oppo keeper mishandled but managed to cover up. Based on his two appearances so far, he's probably ready for a bigger role beyond the usual 60th minute sub appearance.
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Not that important but it was actually 3-2 when he came on

Getafe have 2 matches this week so he's likely to get more minutes and maybe even a start
 
Solius said:
Exactly mate, who here hasn't had a family member or friend threaten to rape their partner? Just life innit.
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Not the point being made, and you know it.

The point was about people being absolutist in their thinking and demonising those who do wrong as being beyond forgiveness, to which I added that we all forgive the discretions of our friends and family because we have the empathy to understand what led them to make those mistakes.

I fortunately haven't had any friends or family members commit serious criminal offences. But as I said in my post, which you didn't respond to other than a snarcy quip to a response to a response to the post, I do work with a convicted murderer. I do and have worked with a large number of ex-cons. My opinion on them as people changes as I get to know them and familiarise myself with their history. There isn't one who was a demon or a monster, there wasn't one who wasn't capable of compassion, kindness, humility, respect and remorse, and there wasn't one who wasn't worthy of empathy and respect. And I've certainly had every friend or family member make numerous mistakes or unpleasant actions, from microscopic comments, to fairly significant things. If they are close family or close friends then I have some insight into the cocktail of factors which led them to making that decision, and I have (near) unconditional love for them. As do you for your family and friends.

There is a lot of potential nuance and depth to this topic. I'd suggest if you aren't capable of joining the discussion without simple, snarcy gotchas, out of context to what was actually said, in order to score kudos points on an internet forum that you've spent far too much of your life frequenting and which you use as a source of validation and social acceptance, then you're probably best off not contributing at all.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Very true.

It's also much easier to distance yourselves when you don't know the person, or know the nuance. Yet we all have friends and family members who have done bad things yet we forgive and/or forget, because we empathise with the complex mix of circumstances that led to them doing those things.

It gets more difficult the worse the action, and the more distant the connection. In my job, one of the patients I have worked with the past few years is a convicted killer. Yet knowing his history and the circumstances, I know that he is isn't an evil person. He's a damaged individual who was in a near impossible situation, sought help but didn't receive any, and ended up making a decision that has cost him his freedom for decades, first prison, then forensic wards, and now he's still in the psychiatric system despite his criminal sentence expiring. He's genuinely one of the kindest patients I have worked with. I can't explain the circumstances for obvious reasons because they're fairly unique to his case, but what's sad is that some people are so black and white in their thinking they won't stop to consider what possible circumstances I'm alluding to because X simply = Y. On the flip side, there's a few staff, and plenty of "regular" citizens, who have respectable jobs and public image, and yet when you get to know them it's obvious they are narcissistic, manipulative and abusive and cause pain and turmoil wherever they go. I'd trust the convicted killer I work with, with my life, I wouldn't trust some of the staff with my car keys.
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Would you then keep that person in the world where playing for Manchester United is the best way forward? Would you really subject them to that pressure and all that comes with it? Would you also read those statements from the club and Mason himself and believe they were the true and honest things to say?

I'm genuinely asking questions btw, I'm not expert. But I can't believe people who are and deal with this over and over would ever side with the club and trying to bring him back into that melting pot. Which leads me to believe they never even approached this in the right way from the off.

Let's not forget he might not be the one who needs all the help after all. I mean, it continues to be overlooked that the basic facts are simple...one of the two is lying. The moment she made a statement to the police that lead them to pushing it to the CPS there was no option out of the mess that makes any ridiculous explanation for that audio ring true. We should all be on the same page there, nothing explains both that audio and then the subsequent covering up in any kind of light that isn't at least problematic one way or another. Hence why neither the club nor Greenwood have said it, and I'm guessing that's not actually his idea.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Look at the evidence and make a decision, like everyone does every single day.

Rio Ferdinand might understandably be a bit unhappy with John Terry, because he racially abused his brother, even though Terry was found not guilty. Suarez wasn't even charged, yet many people believe Evra. Most non-City fans think they're dodgy, even though no crimes have been proven in a court of law. We just had a World Cup in Qatar, and it's widely accepted that this happened because of bribery and corruption. That's illegal!

An extremely iconic piece of United history is the Cantona kung fu kick. That was a crime. He wasn't charged, but technically he could have been. He is therefore treated as innocent by the state, yet no one doubts that he did it. We saw it, it's on video! We don't need to rely on the justice system, because we have eyes.
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I take the point and while it’s easy to say none of Terry, Suarez or Cantona were dropped, two wrongs don’t make a right as they say.

Very bitter pill to swallow, especially with Antony next up.

Suppose the frustration and anger of fans should be directed at the players themselves for being so stupid and the club for allowing this to happen to us twice in quick succession (albeit Antony may yet be found innocent and there isn’t the same body of evidence against him in the public domain).

Lash said:
The justice system isn't infallible so I'm not sure why it tracks that you're not allowed an opinion, because it didn't go to trial.

Everyone is entitled to make their own opinion on it, but they have to truthfully answer the question I posed with would they be comfortable with someone like a daughter being in a relationship with him now - with all the information available to you now. If the answer is yes, then fair enough. As someone who's about to have a daughter, it's a hard no for me, purely for the possibility he could be a risk.
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No, I don’t think anyone is looking to introduce their daughter to Mason.

As above, extremely bitter pill to swallow made worse by the lack of a conviction, but I can’t disagree with you or the poster quoted above.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Not the point being made, and you know it.

The point was about people being absolutist in their thinking and demonising those who do wrong as being beyond forgiveness, to which I added that we all forgive the discretions of our friends and family because we have the empathy to understand what led them to make those mistakes.

I fortunately haven't had any friends or family members commit serious criminal offences. But as I said in my post, which you didn't respond to other than a snarcy quip to a response to a response to the post, I do work with a convicted murderer. I do and have worked with a large number of ex-cons. My opinion on them as people changes as I get to know them and familiarise myself with their history. There isn't one who was a demon or a monster, there wasn't one who wasn't capable of compassion, kindness, humility, respect and remorse, and there wasn't one who wasn't worthy of empathy and respect. And I've certainly had every friend or family member make numerous mistakes or unpleasant actions, from microscopic comments, to fairly significant things. If they are close family or close friends then I have some insight into the cocktail of factors which led them to making that decision, and I have (near) unconditional love for them. As do you for your family and friends.

There is a lot of potential nuance and depth to this topic. I'd suggest if you aren't capable of joining the discussion without simple, snarcy gotchas, out of context to what was actually said, in order to score kudos points on an internet forum that you've spent far too much of your life frequenting and which you use as a source of validation and social acceptance, then you're probably best off not contributing at all.
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It's not out of context. It was literally in response to somebody saying "Yet we all have friends and family members who have done bad things yet we forgive and/or forget" which trivializes what Greenwood has done. There's a massive difference between someone in your family making a mistake or saying something bad and threatening to rape someone, beating them and having done that so often that the partner decides this time they'll record it.

It's perfectly fine for people to not like him and not want him to be successful after seeing and hearing this stuff.

Anyway I'm off to spend my kudos points. You get twice as many if you don't work with a murderer, special offer this week!
 
How has he performed at Getafe so far? Came in to see if there are any updates but it's the same discussion from a month ago.

Are Barca pulling more levers to sign him as we speak?
 
Trequarista10 said:
Not the point being made, and you know it.

The point was about people being absolutist in their thinking and demonising those who do wrong as being beyond forgiveness, to which I added that we all forgive the discretions of our friends and family because we have the empathy to understand what led them to make those mistakes.

I fortunately haven't had any friends or family members commit serious criminal offences. But as I said in my post, which you didn't respond to other than a snarcy quip to a response to a response to the post, I do work with a convicted murderer. I do and have worked with a large number of ex-cons. My opinion on them as people changes as I get to know them and familiarise myself with their history. There isn't one who was a demon or a monster, there wasn't one who wasn't capable of compassion, kindness, humility, respect and remorse, and there wasn't one who wasn't worthy of empathy and respect. And I've certainly had every friend or family member make numerous mistakes or unpleasant actions, from microscopic comments, to fairly significant things. If they are close family or close friends then I have some insight into the cocktail of factors which led them to making that decision, and I have (near) unconditional love for them. As do you for your family and friends.

There is a lot of potential nuance and depth to this topic. I'd suggest if you aren't capable of joining the discussion without simple, snarcy gotchas, out of context to what was actually said, in order to score kudos points on an internet forum that you've spent far too much of your life frequenting and which you use as a source of validation and social acceptance, then you're probably best off not contributing at all.
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This last paragraph is well phrased and could apply to many, many posters in this thread.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Not the point being made, and you know it.

The point was about people being absolutist in their thinking and demonising those who do wrong as being beyond forgiveness, to which I added that we all forgive the discretions of our friends and family because we have the empathy to understand what led them to make those mistakes.

I fortunately haven't had any friends or family members commit serious criminal offences. But as I said in my post, which you didn't respond to other than a snarcy quip to a response to a response to the post, I do work with a convicted murderer. I do and have worked with a large number of ex-cons. My opinion on them as people changes as I get to know them and familiarise myself with their history. There isn't one who was a demon or a monster, there wasn't one who wasn't capable of compassion, kindness, humility, respect and remorse, and there wasn't one who wasn't worthy of empathy and respect. And I've certainly had every friend or family member make numerous mistakes or unpleasant actions, from microscopic comments, to fairly significant things. If they are close family or close friends then I have some insight into the cocktail of factors which led them to making that decision, and I have (near) unconditional love for them. As do you for your family and friends.

There is a lot of potential nuance and depth to this topic. I'd suggest if you aren't capable of joining the discussion without simple, snarcy gotchas, out of context to what was actually said, in order to score kudos points on an internet forum that you've spent far too much of your life frequenting and which you use as a source of validation and social acceptance, then you're probably best off not contributing at all.
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The last para is broadly applicable not only in this thread, but the site in general.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Not the point being made, and you know it.

The point was about people being absolutist in their thinking and demonising those who do wrong as being beyond forgiveness, to which I added that we all forgive the discretions of our friends and family because we have the empathy to understand what led them to make those mistakes.

I fortunately haven't had any friends or family members commit serious criminal offences. But as I said in my post, which you didn't respond to other than a snarcy quip to a response to a response to the post, I do work with a convicted murderer. I do and have worked with a large number of ex-cons. My opinion on them as people changes as I get to know them and familiarise myself with their history. There isn't one who was a demon or a monster, there wasn't one who wasn't capable of compassion, kindness, humility, respect and remorse, and there wasn't one who wasn't worthy of empathy and respect. And I've certainly had every friend or family member make numerous mistakes or unpleasant actions, from microscopic comments, to fairly significant things. If they are close family or close friends then I have some insight into the cocktail of factors which led them to making that decision, and I have (near) unconditional love for them. As do you for your family and friends.

There is a lot of potential nuance and depth to this topic. I'd suggest if you aren't capable of joining the discussion without simple, snarcy gotchas, out of context to what was actually said, in order to score kudos points on an internet forum that you've spent far too much of your life frequenting and which you use as a source of validation and social acceptance, then you're probably best off not contributing at all.
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Excellent post. As others have said, not even relating to this particular point or site but life really. Consideration and context helps all parties.
 
I like that poster who made the post, but Solius comment was fair. There’s been a concerted effort in this thread to downplay what Greenwood did, ultimately because he’s very good with both feet. What a lot of posters will miss is this opposition doesn’t come from wanting kudos, but from painful personal experiences. Many comments have used the reasoning “which of us didn’t make mistakes at a young age”, or in mufc comment “your family is perfect then” which again is ridiculous, and in line with the first argument absolutely diminishes what Greenwood did.

Responding to that by pointing out that no their friends and family haven’t done that isn’t just fair, you’d hopefully expect it.

Greenwood probably will play for United again, he’s not been condemned he’s still playing top flight football. I actually like Adexkola’s reasoning, even if we usually stand on opposite sides of this spectrum, which is “yeah he’s a cnut but legally there’s no reason he can’t play, and he’d improve United on the pitch”.
 
Honestly, feck half of the posters in this thread.

I really hope you live uninteresting lives, I don't think most of you could cope with any actual difficulties.
 
does he have a player performance thread? i just want to be updated on the football side of things.
 
Withnail said:
The last paragraph undermined his whole point. It's an unnecessary dig which is based on pure conjecture. Comments like that make someone look like a bit of a dick imo.
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Won some kudos points on a internet forum though, so all good I guess?
 
Zlatattack said:
does he have a player performance thread? i just want to be updated on the football side of things.
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Apparently that's a bridge too far..... I mean it took a pivotal moment to actually get this thread opened.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I wonder why Alvaro Fernandez isn’t getting the same slavish devotion to every kick of the ball he makes while out on loan?
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I'm pretty sure you know the answer to that already and a reminder that this thread is only for discussion about Greenwood on the pitch

There is whole other thread for you to discuss whatever else you want
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Maybe. Although, on the plus side, he’s never been recorded threatening to violently rape someone. Which has to count for something, right?
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Not in this performance forum mate. Which is why it was created.

But if you do have an issue with it discuss it in the correct forum or amongst your friends and family.
 
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