Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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Getafe have quite a few other black players who don't get "die" shouted at them so I would guess it's about the recording and pics.

I suppose there's a question about how a white player would have been treated in the same situation. My guess is that it would be the same, though. I'm not sure race is relevant in this case. Greenwood getting abuse from fans was always going to happen
 
What has made you not so certain that he's as guilty as portrayed?

Your last paragraph is a load of nonsense, it has to be said. I'm pretty sure everyone here condemning beating up and threatening to rape someone is doing it because it's a horrible thing to do, rather than to look good and feel better about themselves.
I suppose I'd like to ask, what's made you so certain that he's guilty?

For me it's a combination of what I don't know along with red flags in relation to the relationship and accusations.

- Releasing only a cropped segment of the audio automatically opens up the question about what's been left out and why? What was said before? What was said after?
- It was a toxic relationship with Mason inviting girls back to his hotel on international duty.
- I've seen images in relation to the accusers social media where she boasted about cheating and spoke badly of her partner.
- The accuser shared company and was close to other girls who had relationships with PL footballers. One being Orla Sloan who was sentenced for stalking Mason Mount.
- Given the circles the accuser is involved in, I've not seen any footballers speak out against or shun Mason.
- He also appeared to have the support of the first team to return. Would you want to return to your workplace with a rapist working alongside you?
- The nature of how the information was released wasn't what I'd expect from a rape and domestic abuse victim given they're usually scared to speak out. It felt more like an attack on Mason rather than a cry for help and justice.
- The immediate aftermath and her fathers response.
- The lack of friends or family speaking out against the player on any platforms or making any known attempt to prevent her from getting back into a relationship with him.
- The clubs statement where it suggests they've looked at more evidence than what's available publicly in their investigation and came to a conclusion of no guilt.
- The fact that the accuser never went to the police to report any crimes. The police were only involved after seeing it on social media. And yet her father shortly after was quick to shoot it down, why?
- As a father, I think if another father thought their daughter was being abused - the last thing they'd do is defend the abuser unless they were certain things weren't as portrayed.
- In addition I don't think someone in an abusive relationship who has finally got out of it would run back to an abuser.
- Personally having listened to the audio many times, I cant say with confidence that I believe that's from someone actively raping someone else.


Now I know this then opens up multiple questions. If there is evidence out there which proves his guilt, why not release it? Well in this scenario, in my opinion, anything which exonerates Mason reflects very badly on the mother of his child. It also opens up a whole other saga and trial by social media.

So because of all these unknowns which I can't answer along with further details I've learned about the relationship - I can't be certain he is guilty.

In terms of my final paragraph. I think there is a difference between condemning those acts and condemning someone accused of performing those actions. This thread is about the actor not the acts.

The way in which you've phrased that paragraph comes across to me that you're implying I don't condemn horrible acts such as beating up and threatening to rape people. You may not be implying that but it's how it comes across when read.

This is exactly what I meant though. Rather than try to think critically and use logic to look at the evidence available along with the unknowns, it would be much easier for me to just call him a rapist as I wouldn't have others suggesting I think rapes OK.

Admittedly when this all first came out I was very much outraged and firmly in the "never let him play again" camp. How could I support an individual who conducts themselves in such a manner of disgust, especially when I have a daughter myself. It was only upon opening myself to other perspectives and listening to their points that I mellowed down and thought that, yes - there is much more to this than meets the eye.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends you or anyone else. And if anything I've said in the above is incorrect or inaccurate then I apologise too - alot of the knowledge I've gathered is through discussing this with others.

For now I'll be keeping a close eye on Mason at Getafe both on and off the pitch. Assuming no further evidence comes out to prove his guilt then as things stand I'd be open to his return if his performances merit it.

Edit: I can only make 3 posts per day. But to reply to golden blunder (if he sees this). The clubs statement said,

"Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged."

"Based on the evidence available to us" suggests they have evidence available different to that in the public domain.

Saying "did not provide a full picture" further suggests the club has had access to additional evidence. Or why else would they suggest the material online doesn't provide a full picture if that's the only picture they've had access to.
 
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So we both are speculating. The difference is you think you are right. I don't know I'm right, I just feel most young adults should be given a second chance.
There is no equivalence with what we wrote. You created a fantastical narrative based on what you hope to be true, rather than what experts in DV and statistics would indicate to be the likely reality. For what it's worth, i HOPE you are right, but i have no basis to believe that what you wrote aligns to the reality of the situation.
 
I suppose I'd like to ask, what's made you so certain that he's guilty?

For me it's a combination of what I don't know along with red flags in relation to the relationship and accusations.

- Releasing only a cropped segment of the audio automatically opens up the question about what's been left out and why? What was said before? What was said after?
- It was a toxic relationship with Mason inviting girls back to his hotel on international duty.
- I've seen images in relation to the accusers social media where she boasted about cheating and spoke badly of her partner.
- The accuser shared company and was close to other girls who had relationships with PL footballers. One being Orla Sloan who was sentenced for stalking Mason Mount.
- Given the circles the accuser is involved in, I've not seen any footballers speak out against or shun Mason.
- He also appeared to have the support of the first team to return. Would you want to return to your workplace with a rapist working alongside you?
- The nature of how the information was released wasn't what I'd expect from a rape and domestic abuse victim given they're usually scared to speak out. It felt more like an attack on Mason rather than a cry for help and justice.
- The immediate aftermath and her fathers response.
- The lack of friends or family speaking out against the player on any platforms or making any known attempt to prevent her from getting back into a relationship with him.
- The clubs statement where it suggests they've looked at more evidence than what's available publicly in their investigation and came to a conclusion of no guilt.
- The fact that the accuser never went to the police to report any crimes. The police were only involved after seeing it on social media. And yet her father shortly after was quick to shoot it down, why?
- As a father, I think if another father thought their daughter was being abused - the last thing they'd do is defend the abuser unless they were certain things weren't as portrayed.
- In addition I don't think someone in an abusive relationship who has finally got out of it would run back to an abuser.
- Personally having listened to the audio many times, I cant say with confidence that I believe that's from someone actively raping someone else.


Now I know this then opens up multiple questions. If there is evidence out there which proves his guilt, why not release it? Well in this scenario, in my opinion, anything which exonerates Mason reflects very badly on the mother of his child. It also opens up a whole other saga and trial by social media.

So because of all these unknowns which I can't answer along with further details I've learned about the relationship - I can't be certain he is guilty.

In terms of my final paragraph. I think there is a difference between condemning those acts and condemning someone accused of performing those actions. This thread is about the actor not the acts.

The way in which you've phrased that paragraph comes across to me that you're implying I don't condemn horrible acts such as beating up and threatening to rape people. You may not be implying that but it's how it comes across when read.

This is exactly what I meant though. Rather than try to think critically and use logic to look at the evidence available along with the unknowns, it would be much easier for me to just call him a rapist as I wouldn't have others suggesting I think rapes OK.

Admittedly when this all first came out I was very much outraged and firmly in the "never let him play again" camp. How could I support an individual who conducts themselves in such a manner of disgust, especially when I have a daughter myself. It was only upon opening myself to other perspectives and listening to their points that I mellowed down and thought that, yes - there is much more to this than meets the eye.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends you or anyone else. And if anything I've said in the above is incorrect or inaccurate then I apologise too - alot of the knowledge I've gathered is through discussing this with others.

For now I'll be keeping a close eye on Mason at Getafe both on and off the pitch. Assuming no further evidence comes out to prove his guilt then as things stand I'd be open to his return if his performances merit it.
People keep saying the club had more evidence. They didn’t, they spoke to the parents. That’s it. Not exactly magic evidence. The parents aren’t exactly gonna say he treats her badly. We specially when hes broken his bail condition, and got her pregnant. Complete botch job
 
@BigDerek I can't seem to quote your post to reply.

First, I wasnt implying you dont condemn rape or domestic violence. I was just saying it's nonsense to suggest there's people here condemning it just to feel better about themselves or look good.

I don't think the audio indicates someone actively raping someone. Personally I wouldn't think Greenwood ever raped her as that wasn't something he was ever charged for. But threatening to do it and beating her up is surely deplorable enough.

You say Greenwood might have not released any material that might have exonerated him because it looks bad on the mother of his child. But she wasn't the mother of his child at the time, she was just a who he was in a toxic relationship with. So would he really protect her in that situation to the extent that he is known as a rapist and he can't play football for close to 2 years? Possible but very unlikely in my eyes.

Another thing is that the guards thought there was enough evidence there to actively charge him with multiple different charges and didn't drop the charges until over a year later when it was revealed they were back together and having a baby. Again, it's very unlikely that the case would have went on for so long if he was innocent.
 
I have done alot of reading into the Greenwood situation and I personally think he should be given a chance to redeem himself if he's still capable as a footballer.

I'm new to the forum so haven't read the post history in this thread. Is the general opinion that most fans don't want him to be given another chance? Or is there a split?

I've spoken about this in length with my boys and I've warmed to the idea of him returning in recent weeks. I was previously very opposed to the idea but having taken in other perspectives and read some counter arguments in relation to the allegations and the truth behind them - I'm not quite so certain that he's as guilty as once portrayed.

I'm mindful of the length of this post so don't want to go into too much detail on why I've suddenly became more open to his return. I'll gladly expand on my views though if anyone is interested to hear them.

Sometimes I think with situations like this that people can be more concerned about how others view them for their opinion and this results in them going with the more politically correct view to look better on the surface. As someone with a daughter this certainly influenced my views when the story was initially leaked. And I think for me I was allowing emotions to cloud logic because I felt it reflected badly on me to be open minded on the case.
Yes please expand on them because it currently sounds like an underhand attempt to paint those opposed to his return as over emotional and self serving and that you think political correctness has gone mad.

And I usually wouldn't care for your elaboration but for some reason you are receiving kudos from certain people for what looks to me like a cynical ploy.

Edit: I read your follow up and wasn't impressed but hey you do have certain fans out there.
 

Basically stop polluting this chat.You fully well knew what you was trying. There was a Greenwood thread in the main forum which you probably posted in. What else is there to discuss about that topic that hasn’t been already. This is about his games.
 
Basically stop polluting this chat.You fully well knew what you was trying. There was a Greenwood thread in the main forum which you probably posted in. What else is there to discuss about that topic that hasn’t been already. This is about his games.

Hate to break it to you but you’re in the wrong thread now. Read the thread title.
 
People keep saying the club had more evidence. They didn’t, they spoke to the parents. That’s it. Not exactly magic evidence. The parents aren’t exactly gonna say he treats her badly. We specially when hes broken his bail condition, and got her pregnant. Complete botch job

We actually have no idea exactly what evidence the club has. We know for sure they have spoken to Mason, his family, her family (and even that alone is more information than anyone here might have) but the rest is just speculation.

Have the club heard the full recording? We don't know either way.
All we know for sure is that there was around 15minutes of audio recorded in October 2021 and 1 minute of that was released on Instagram in January 2022.

Some claim that if the club had the full recording that they would release/leak it - this is possible but again it's just speculation.
 
People keep saying the club had more evidence. They didn’t, they spoke to the parents. That’s it. Not exactly magic evidence. The parents aren’t exactly gonna say he treats her badly. We specially when hes broken his bail condition, and got her pregnant. Complete botch job
Thank you. Add to that the parents seem like complete gold-diggers and are unlikely to endanger this golden goose situation.

I just hope this shit doesn't go on behind closed doors and Greenwood is aware of all the public scrutiny.
 
I have absolutely no problem with people who think that what Greenwood did was abhorrent, that he would have been found guilty, but also believe he should be given a second chance and hope things turn out good for him in the end. It’s the people that are almost acting as if there was no crime that I can’t stand.

I agree mostly with this. It's so conflicting for me personally as I've thought more and more about it. On one hand, what he (seemingly) did disgusts me and makes it impossible to every be a big fan of his ever again. But on the other hand, by all accounts he, his gf, and the families are happy that everything resolved the way it did and there are no issues now and there wasn't any sort of trial for him to be found guilty. If that's the case, why should I care about an incident between a couple that has nothing to do with me and apparently they aren't bothered by either at this point?

Ultimately I have no issues with him playing football, although it obviously won't ever happen with us again I'd assume. It's also interesting to think about in the context that 20 years ago none of this ever becomes as big of a deal as it is now. He would have gotten charged and then the charges would have been dropped and he'd be in the squad this season as there wouldn't be enough public outrage (if any really) to force the clubs hand.
 
I’ve read the last couple of pages and it was quite illuminating. There’s some posters against him who demand an explanation 100% absolving him. Then I read @BigDerek post and I realized there’s no possible winners in this, particularly the girl.

Going public is not an option for either of them. People have posted her private messages theorizing her a scornful ex. Let’s say she publicly said it was roleplaying. She’s going to go through life with people making snide remarks about her preferences in the bedroom. Theyre parents now and now there’s potential that any statement made will be used to taunt them and their kid. Her parents are being called gold diggers.

For those that demand an explanation, them staying silent is their only option. It’s better for them to let you believe what you like because the truth will destroy either one of them individually or both of them.
 
I have absolutely no problem with people who think that what Greenwood did was abhorrent, that he would have been found guilty, but also believe he should be given a second chance and hope things turn out good for him in the end. It’s the people that are almost acting as if there was no crime that I can’t stand.

And he is getting a second chance overseas at the moment.
 
I’ve read the last couple of pages and it was quite illuminating. There’s some posters against him who demand an explanation 100% absolving him. Then I read @BigDerek post and I realized there’s no possible winners in this, particularly the girl.

Going public is not an option for either of them. People have posted her private messages theorizing her a scornful ex. Let’s say she publicly said it was roleplaying. She’s going to go through life with people making snide remarks about her preferences in the bedroom. Theyre parents now and now there’s potential that any statement made will be used to taunt them and their kid. Her parents are being called gold diggers.

For those that demand an explanation, them staying silent is their only option. It’s better for them to let you believe what you like because the truth will destroy either one of them individually or both of them.
This is where I’m at.

The truth doesn’t matter at this point so bringing him back is just a matter of how much bad PR the club wants to manage. At this point, everyone is more or less entrenched in their beliefs of the type of person Greenwood and anything short of his girlfriend being a lunatic wouldn’t make a difference.

Tragic part of all this is the appetite for Greenwood is somewhat correlated by his usefulness of the pitch. The last thing majority of people on both sides care about is the alleged victim.
 
This is where I’m at.

The truth doesn’t matter at this point so bringing him back is just a matter of how much bad PR the club wants to manage. At this point, everyone is more or less entrenched in their beliefs of the type of person Greenwood and anything short of his girlfriend being a lunatic wouldn’t make a difference.

Tragic part of all this is the appetite for Greenwood is somewhat correlated by his usefulness of the pitch. The last thing majority of people on both sides care about is the alleged victim.
Disagree entirely with the bolded and it seems to be an underhanded attempt to delegitimize the position of those against bringing him back. Many of those folks have very good, often very personal reasons for not wanting him back, and even those that say 'no' on purely moral grounds (without more personal reasons) are doing it because of the way one human has treated another human. So the victim remains very much at the centre of the thought process.
 
Let’s say she publicly said it was roleplaying. She’s going to go through life with people making snide remarks about her preferences in the bedroom. Theyre parents now and now there’s potential that any statement made will be used to taunt them and their kid. Her parents are being called gold diggers.

Snide comments about thier sex life? Beging called gold diggers? Surely that's infinately preferable to being called a rapist and abuser. How's that going to be used against their kid?

If this was some kinky sex then a joint statement would've put this all to bed a day after the audio and pics came out.
 
I suppose I'd like to ask, what's made you so certain that he's guilty?

For me it's a combination of what I don't know along with red flags in relation to the relationship and accusations.

- Releasing only a cropped segment of the audio automatically opens up the question about what's been left out and why? What was said before? What was said after?
- It was a toxic relationship with Mason inviting girls back to his hotel on international duty.
- I've seen images in relation to the accusers social media where she boasted about cheating and spoke badly of her partner.
- The accuser shared company and was close to other girls who had relationships with PL footballers. One being Orla Sloan who was sentenced for stalking Mason Mount.
- Given the circles the accuser is involved in, I've not seen any footballers speak out against or shun Mason.
- He also appeared to have the support of the first team to return. Would you want to return to your workplace with a rapist working alongside you?
- The nature of how the information was released wasn't what I'd expect from a rape and domestic abuse victim given they're usually scared to speak out. It felt more like an attack on Mason rather than a cry for help and justice.
- The immediate aftermath and her fathers response.
- The lack of friends or family speaking out against the player on any platforms or making any known attempt to prevent her from getting back into a relationship with him.
- The clubs statement where it suggests they've looked at more evidence than what's available publicly in their investigation and came to a conclusion of no guilt.
- The fact that the accuser never went to the police to report any crimes. The police were only involved after seeing it on social media. And yet her father shortly after was quick to shoot it down, why?
- As a father, I think if another father thought their daughter was being abused - the last thing they'd do is defend the abuser unless they were certain things weren't as portrayed.
- In addition I don't think someone in an abusive relationship who has finally got out of it would run back to an abuser.
- Personally having listened to the audio many times, I cant say with confidence that I believe that's from someone actively raping someone else.


Now I know this then opens up multiple questions. If there is evidence out there which proves his guilt, why not release it? Well in this scenario, in my opinion, anything which exonerates Mason reflects very badly on the mother of his child. It also opens up a whole other saga and trial by social media.

So because of all these unknowns which I can't answer along with further details I've learned about the relationship - I can't be certain he is guilty.

In terms of my final paragraph. I think there is a difference between condemning those acts and condemning someone accused of performing those actions. This thread is about the actor not the acts.

The way in which you've phrased that paragraph comes across to me that you're implying I don't condemn horrible acts such as beating up and threatening to rape people. You may not be implying that but it's how it comes across when read.

This is exactly what I meant though. Rather than try to think critically and use logic to look at the evidence available along with the unknowns, it would be much easier for me to just call him a rapist as I wouldn't have others suggesting I think rapes OK.

Admittedly when this all first came out I was very much outraged and firmly in the "never let him play again" camp. How could I support an individual who conducts themselves in such a manner of disgust, especially when I have a daughter myself. It was only upon opening myself to other perspectives and listening to their points that I mellowed down and thought that, yes - there is much more to this than meets the eye.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends you or anyone else. And if anything I've said in the above is incorrect or inaccurate then I apologise too - alot of the knowledge I've gathered is through discussing this with others.

For now I'll be keeping a close eye on Mason at Getafe both on and off the pitch. Assuming no further evidence comes out to prove his guilt then as things stand I'd be open to his return if his performances merit it.

Edit: I can only make 3 posts per day. But to reply to golden blunder (if he sees this). The clubs statement said,

"Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged."

"Based on the evidence available to us" suggests they have evidence available different to that in the public domain.

Saying "did not provide a full picture" further suggests the club has had access to additional evidence. Or why else would they suggest the material online doesn't provide a full picture if that's the only picture they've had access to.
That's a great post @BigDerek I understand your flow of logic there. In time I could see this case and maybe Sancho's appearing as case studies in training or textbooks for lawyers, police, victim advocates. It has so many variables. I hope the new family finds peace and wellbeing away from the UK. That, at least, seems to be a good decision for all.
 
BigDerek said:
- I've seen images in relation to the accusers social media where she boasted about cheating and spoke badly of her partner.
- The accuser shared company and was close to other girls who had relationships with PL footballers. One being Orla Sloan who was sentenced for stalking Mason Mount.
This post is disgusting, and I've quoted only the worst of it. What the feck does any of that have to do with the veracity of an accusation of violence and threats of rape. And it offers no mitigation for the violent behaviour depicted in the audio and visuals. Why have you mentioned this at all.

That others are quoting, liking and egging you on is a fecking sorry state.
 
I suppose I'd like to ask, what's made you so certain that he's guilty?

For me it's a combination of what I don't know along with red flags in relation to the relationship and accusations.

- Releasing only a cropped segment of the audio automatically opens up the question about what's been left out and why? What was said before? What was said after?
- It was a toxic relationship with Mason inviting girls back to his hotel on international duty.
- I've seen images in relation to the accusers social media where she boasted about cheating and spoke badly of her partner.
- The accuser shared company and was close to other girls who had relationships with PL footballers. One being Orla Sloan who was sentenced for stalking Mason Mount.
- Given the circles the accuser is involved in, I've not seen any footballers speak out against or shun Mason.
- He also appeared to have the support of the first team to return. Would you want to return to your workplace with a rapist working alongside you?
- The nature of how the information was released wasn't what I'd expect from a rape and domestic abuse victim given they're usually scared to speak out. It felt more like an attack on Mason rather than a cry for help and justice.
- The immediate aftermath and her fathers response.
- The lack of friends or family speaking out against the player on any platforms or making any known attempt to prevent her from getting back into a relationship with him.
- The clubs statement where it suggests they've looked at more evidence than what's available publicly in their investigation and came to a conclusion of no guilt.
- The fact that the accuser never went to the police to report any crimes. The police were only involved after seeing it on social media. And yet her father shortly after was quick to shoot it down, why?
- As a father, I think if another father thought their daughter was being abused - the last thing they'd do is defend the abuser unless they were certain things weren't as portrayed.
- In addition I don't think someone in an abusive relationship who has finally got out of it would run back to an abuser.
- Personally having listened to the audio many times, I cant say with confidence that I believe that's from someone actively raping someone else.


Now I know this then opens up multiple questions. If there is evidence out there which proves his guilt, why not release it? Well in this scenario, in my opinion, anything which exonerates Mason reflects very badly on the mother of his child. It also opens up a whole other saga and trial by social media.

So because of all these unknowns which I can't answer along with further details I've learned about the relationship - I can't be certain he is guilty.

In terms of my final paragraph. I think there is a difference between condemning those acts and condemning someone accused of performing those actions. This thread is about the actor not the acts.

The way in which you've phrased that paragraph comes across to me that you're implying I don't condemn horrible acts such as beating up and threatening to rape people. You may not be implying that but it's how it comes across when read.

This is exactly what I meant though. Rather than try to think critically and use logic to look at the evidence available along with the unknowns, it would be much easier for me to just call him a rapist as I wouldn't have others suggesting I think rapes OK.

Admittedly when this all first came out I was very much outraged and firmly in the "never let him play again" camp. How could I support an individual who conducts themselves in such a manner of disgust, especially when I have a daughter myself. It was only upon opening myself to other perspectives and listening to their points that I mellowed down and thought that, yes - there is much more to this than meets the eye.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends you or anyone else. And if anything I've said in the above is incorrect or inaccurate then I apologise too - alot of the knowledge I've gathered is through discussing this with others.

For now I'll be keeping a close eye on Mason at Getafe both on and off the pitch. Assuming no further evidence comes out to prove his guilt then as things stand I'd be open to his return if his performances merit it.

Edit: I can only make 3 posts per day. But to reply to golden blunder (if he sees this). The clubs statement said,

"Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged."

"Based on the evidence available to us" suggests they have evidence available different to that in the public domain.

Saying "did not provide a full picture" further suggests the club has had access to additional evidence. Or why else would they suggest the material online doesn't provide a full picture if that's the only picture they've had access to.

He isn't legally quilty and is unlikely to ever be. So what? There is no context where this behavior is acceptable or something we should tolerate from a United employee. Lets face it in almost any other employment he would have been sacked for cause (but is a commodity for the club).

F3qllHJXgAMKpV6
 
I’ve read the last couple of pages and it was quite illuminating. There’s some posters against him who demand an explanation 100% absolving him. Then I read @BigDerek post and I realized there’s no possible winners in this, particularly the girl.

Going public is not an option for either of them. People have posted her private messages theorizing her a scornful ex. Let’s say she publicly said it was roleplaying. She’s going to go through life with people making snide remarks about her preferences in the bedroom. Theyre parents now and now there’s potential that any statement made will be used to taunt them and their kid. Her parents are being called gold diggers.

For those that demand an explanation, them staying silent is their only option. It’s better for them to let you believe what you like because the truth will destroy either one of them individually or both of them.

I would much rather the world know I’m into a bit of role play, nearly everyone has some sort of kinks/wierd stuff they are into.

If the audio showed it was role play they would 100% have just released the end of the tape or something, you don’t risk prison/a 150k a week career over something like that.

People know I’m into bdsm, people think my husband is a rapist and he goes to jail / loses his .0001% percent paying job, it’s not even close which is the better option.
 
That's a great post @BigDerek I understand your flow of logic there. In time I could see this case and maybe Sancho's appearing as case studies in training or textbooks for lawyers, police, victim advocates. It has so many variables. I hope the new family finds peace and wellbeing away from the UK. That, at least, seems to be a good decision for all.
Eh? How is Sancho going to be in a casebook?
 
This post is disgusting, and I've quoted only the worst of it. What the feck does any of that have to do with the veracity of an accusation of violence and threats of rape. And it offers no mitigation for the violent behaviour depicted in the audio and visuals. Why have you mentioned this at all.

That others are quoting, liking and egging you on is a fecking sorry state.
I can understand why you feel that but I'm no apologist for rape but I think this shows how we, as a society, fail at protecting rape and SA victims and ensuring that their abusers receive appropriate punishment. Less than 1% of all rapes reported to the police in England & Wales end in a conviction. I interpreted those sections you highlighted as a sign of what rape victims fear being asked in court and I think we all know how distressing counsel for the defendants can be. Those are the very real examples of cross-examination we'd see in court and it is pretty horrendous and I have to believe there's a more equitable way of testifying without sacrificing justice.

It's something that's given me a shock to be honest and over here, we rarely see rape cases in court and there are only a couple in the prison for it. Assuming those conviction rates and using the prison data, it's possible to extrapolate how many rapists there are in just our small island who haven't ever been charged or convicted, they're just free. A sobering thought that there might be 50 guys just in the community who have raped but not been caught or the case wasn't taken up by the Attorney General, our CPS.
 
Eh? How is Sancho going to be in a casebook?
Ah, yes sorry, went a bit o/t there. I mean there's no similarity in the cases but I think it might change the way clubs contract with young players once the dust has settled, I was thinking along the lines of the Bosman Ruling. It might demand changes to pastoral care, wage capping by age, performance related bonuses maybe?
 
This post is disgusting, and I've quoted only the worst of it. What the feck does any of that have to do with the veracity of an accusation of violence and threats of rape. And it offers no mitigation for the violent behaviour depicted in the audio and visuals. Why have you mentioned this at all.

That others are quoting, liking and egging you on is a fecking sorry state.

I find your post disgusting - really no need to get hysterical just because some people have a different opinion to you.

The poster was specifically asked for their rationale and they gave it in great detail, all publicly available information is valid - it's fine to disagree but silly to pick out a small part of that and get upset about it.
 
Thank you. Add to that the parents seem like complete gold-diggers and are unlikely to endanger this golden goose situation.

I just hope this shit doesn't go on behind closed doors and Greenwood is aware of all the public scrutiny.

What makes you think that?
 
It'll be interesting what happens. I assume his girlfriend and family will want to live in Manchester.

I understand why we can't bring him back but at a certain point but it'll be interesting to see what happens.

He'll be playing at a top team soon enough.

I still disagree with the club investigation though. Either we should have let him leave after the CPS drop their charges or technically with the so called outcome of the investigation he should have stayed.

Not saying I believe he is innocent, I don't but when United pretty much announced their findings they where very pro Greenwood. In which case the investigation didn't give a legit reason for getting rid of him.

Basically they got rid because of public outlash but any idiot could have told you that would happen. Basically the entire investigation was a complete and utter waste of time as they ended up changing their decision on a whim by all reports.
 
I find your post disgusting - really no need to get hysterical just because some people have a different opinion to you.

The poster was specifically asked for their rationale and they gave it in great detail, all publicly available information is valid - it's fine to disagree but silly to pick out a small part of that and get upset about it.

Dumbo is right to highlight those points. It’s pure victim blaming. When being pushed on why you think he might not be as guilty as the audio suggested, her social media having spoken about Greenwood in bad terms, and that she might have cheated, aren’t factors and it’s pretty fecking worrying to think to otherwise.
 
What makes you think that?
I might be wrong but my recollection of the immediate follow-up from the leak was that her dad was trying to keep them together. I don't have a direct source for this, so happy to be corrected.

Her mother doesn't appear to break that pattern as well and I just get the impression they're trying to keep it hush-hush.

People are going to great lengths to assuage their feelings, it seems...
And some people are too weak to adress me properly. You make some random claims and then pretend to be some higher common sense authority.
 
Disagree entirely with the bolded and it seems to be an underhanded attempt to delegitimize the position of those against bringing him back. Many of those folks have very good, often very personal reasons for not wanting him back, and even those that say 'no' on purely moral grounds (without more personal reasons) are doing it because of the way one human has treated another human. So the victim remains very much at the centre of the thought process.
I see where you're coming and I'm happy to discuss your point of view because this is something that I struggle with in this whole situation.

Nobody can do anything about what happened and the events that followed the leaked audio and image. The matter of the fact currently is that they are back together and they have a small child and she seems supportive of his career going forward, and in essence that's what matters for them. I think it's hard to argue that the outcome of the "victim-centred position" for lack of a better term in response to your post (he should never have a high-profile job again due to what he did to her/he should never play for Manchester United again due to what he did to her) has been what she wanted, seeing that it has forced her to move to another country where she's never lived, and sent her far away from family, friends and familiar support systems.
 
I might be wrong but my recollection of the immediate follow-up from the leak was that her dad was trying to keep them together. I don't have a direct source for this, so happy to be corrected.

Her mother doesn't appear to break that pattern as well and I just get the impression they're trying to keep it hush-hush.

What has the mother said publicly?

It's a bit of a harsh accusation based on very little though isn't it?

They'll know infinitely more about the situation than we do and perhaps regardless of their own feelings they can't force their daughter to do anything she doesn't want to. All they can do is support her.
 
Dumbo is right to highlight those points. It’s pure victim blaming. When being pushed on why you think he might not be as guilty as the audio suggested, her social media having spoken about Greenwood in bad terms, and that she might have cheated, aren’t factors and it’s pretty fecking worrying to think to otherwise.

If those were the only two points made to reach a conclusion then you might be able to accuse 'victim blaming' but that's not the case.

It was just 2 of a long list of discussion points and not the most important of that list either. in fact to me they are the least important points in that list and I would still reach the same conclusion without them.
 
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