[SteveW]

If Greenwood progresses and all goes well, we are just a Sancho away from having the best attack in the world in a year (if, and a big if, Pogba stays and plays).

Rashford, Martial, Greenwood is pretty fecking tasty imo. Take pens out and Martial and Rashford are pretty much equal on goals. Greenwood will soon make the right wing his own.

Sancho would be a nice addition but if we just sorted the midfield and improved the service to these 3 I wouldn't have any complaints either. All 3 are improving by the week.

 

[VJ1762]

I agree we need a world class right winger and playmaker to finish our squad. Greenwood isn’t as exciting as a young Messi or Ronaldo because he lacks the freakish athleticism but he’s gonna be deadly in front of goal.

The trend away from playmakers to more physical midfielders is widespread currently but the way Levitt performed against Astana was absolute quality. 96% pass accuracy and over 100 passes.

I’m seriously hoping he makes the grade since he will be a joy to watch.

I am not seeing it with Levitt/garner just yet. They haven't shown their ability in their senior team appearances that they have shown in the youth teams. Also, isn't it only Liverpool that plays with physical midfielders where the onus to create is on the fullbacks? Most top teams have midfielders who have great technical ability as well as workrate. I mean, City's midfielders cover a lot of ground in addition to being great creatively.
I like Sancho, but signings like Mkhi and Kagawa haven't worked out. Hopefully we can reach the CL places and he will fare better than the 2 previously if we get him.

 

[VJ1762]

Rashford, Martial, Greenwood is pretty fecking tasty imo. Take pens out and Martial and Rashford are pretty much equal on goals. Greenwood will soon make the right wing his own.

Sancho would be a nice addition but if we just sorted the midfield and improved the service to these 3 I wouldn't have any complaints either. All 3 are improving by the week.

Ole is managing Greenwood very well, I will give him that. No reason for him to start every game at his age.
I have given up on us buying quality midfielders. When was the last time we bought a midfielder that was consistent and was world class? Carrick - that was 14 years ago. We have let so many talented players slip by us, it's very disheartening.

 

[Thiagoal]

Saying a player lacking pace is sudden obsession with pace? Especially that player is a striker ?

What's wrong with you tbh ? You seem to be pretty angry or offended ?

I just don’t get why anyone would think that a player that isn’t super speedy would in any way be held back? Pretty much all the Premier leagues best ever strikers had similar (or slower) pace levels to Mason so find it odd why anyone would see it as a reason for him not reaching the top of the game.

 

[Member 117152]

I am not seeing it with Levitt/garner just yet. They haven't shown their ability in their senior team appearances that they have shown in the youth teams. Also, isn't it only Liverpool that plays with physical midfielders where the onus to create is on the fullbacks? Most top teams have midfielders who have great technical ability as well as workrate. I mean, City's midfielders cover a lot of ground in addition to being great creatively.
I like Sancho, but signings like Mkhi and Kagawa haven't worked out. Hopefully we can reach the CL places and he will fare better than the 2 previously if we get him.

I actually miss Mkhi a bit. In the Europa League he absolutely tore it up in his first season which I’ll always appreciate then early in his second for 4-0 FC.

Dunno what happened with him, his performances just fell off a cliff and he never recovered.

 

[SteveW]

Ole is managing Greenwood very well, I will give him that. No reason for him to start every game at his age.
I have given up on us buying quality midfielders. When was the last time we bought a midfielder that was consistent and was world class? Carrick - that was 14 years ago. We have let so many talented players slip by us, it's very disheartening.

Agreed. A poor midfield undermines both our attack and defense. I'm hopeful this gets sorted by this summer.

 

[VJ1762]

I actually miss Mkhi a bit. In the Europa League he absolutely tore it up in his first season which I’ll always appreciate then early in his second for 4-0 FC.

Dunno what happened with him, his performances just fell off a cliff and he never recovered.

He had mad stats in the Bundesliga didn't he. Something like 20 G + 30 A in 15-16. I thought we were getting a great player. Shame how things went down.Makes it even worse that Alexis was even terrible than Mkhi. The transfer gods haven't been kind to us post Fergie.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He had mad stats in the Bundesliga didn't he. Something like 20 G + 30 A in 15-16. I thought we were getting a great player. Shame how things went down.Makes it even worse that Alexis was even terrible than Mkhi. The transfer gods haven't been kind to us post Fergie.

Miki the one season wonder - shame we bought him after that one season! The Miki/ Sanchez deal has to be the worst exchange of players in history - just lumbered the teams with overpaid players on long contracts that neither wants or can get rid of.

 

[Strelok]

I just don’t get why anyone would think that a player that isn’t super speedy would in any way be held back? Pretty much all the Premier leagues best ever strikers had similar (or slower) pace levels to Mason so find it odd why anyone would see it as a reason for him not reaching the top of the game.

Do you think Messi would ever be the player he is without his hilarious acceleration?

Do you ever question why a striker or a winger is considered over the hill once he gets slower? Sometime just half a feet faster than your opponent would make the total difference between a goal, a penalty, a breakthrough moment and nothing.

Pace and strength are surely not the only thing you'd need to hit it in professional football. However both are still massively important, especially in the PL.

As a striker in the PL you have to be at least really strong if your speed is average or really fast if your strength is average. Greenwood atm is average at both. It's normal to be not strong at his age. However it's his speed that I'm worried about because he's supposedly to be at 90 % of his max speed at this age.

And if you read my posts carefully enough you'd see I only said his limited pace/acceleration would probably limit his overall strength as a footballer. Imagine that kind of touch, of skills with some better pace/acceleration. It would be absolutely devastating.

I really hope he can get a bit faster, of course not to the level of Rashford or James. Just around Martial would be more than enough imho.

Maybe you don't realise how average his pace/acceleration currently is. I would suggest you to watch him carefully again, he knows it as well and hardly ever try to out run any opponent player. He was out run all the few times he tried though.

 

[Tarrou]

Greenwood isn't slow though

 

[In Rainbows]

I don't see Strelok's point as that controversial. Brazilian Ronaldo was the most gifted footballer around because he added elite pace to his amazing technical ability. Mbappe has that elite pace. Surely it helps him. Greenwood could still become world class without it, but pace would make him even better. It's really not a big deal. He's already scoring at a level practically every 18 year old youth dominant striker would dream of. And it's funny. I still don't think he's completely comfortable out there. He'll start trying more technical skills, passes, etc... when he's completely comfortable. That's scary.

 

[kafta]

Can someone explain to me how xG is actually calculated? Never really understood this.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I don't see Strelok's point as that controversial. Brazilian Ronaldo was the most gifted footballer around because he added elite pace to his amazing technical ability. Mbappe has that elite pace. Surely it helps him. Greenwood could still become world class without it, but pace would make him even better. It's really not a big deal. He's already scoring at a level practically every 18 year old youth dominant striker would dream of. And it's funny. I still don't think he's completely comfortable out there. He'll start trying more technical skills, passes, etc... when he's completely comfortable. That's scary.

Agreed, there's nothing wrong with making the point that he isn't lightning fast, and that's fine. I agree too that he's still playing within himself to an extent and I'm looking forward to seeing him improve further in the coming months.

 

[the chameleon]

I actually miss Mkhi a bit. In the Europa League he absolutely tore it up in his first season which I’ll always appreciate then early in his second for 4-0 FC.

Dunno what happened with him, his performances just fell off a cliff and he never recovered.

I think he may have done better if his manager wasn’t Jose. I remember Jose managing him badly at press conferences saying he’s not ready for the premier league yet. This may have made it more difficult for him mentally to adjust.

One of the big positives of ole is that he will make a player feel good. A newly signed miky from 2016 would have done better than with Jose. Though the miky that left us was a broken version. I think that version was finished.

 

[BR7]

Who says mason greenwood is slow? Funnily enough when he gets the ball and runs at players, other defenders struggle to catch up with him. He is still a baby. Some compare him with RVP again forgetting mason’s age.

At 18 RVP wasn’t on the same planet as 18 year old Greenwood. If mason was playing for Everton like Rooney did when he broke through he’d be a regular first team starter at 17. He has maturity well beyond his age and I will take a bet with anyone here that within 5 years of now he will be considered in the top,three players in the world. GUARANTEE.

You need to watch what this 17 year old did on the pitch making fools of grown men regularly in reserves. In 3 years time no one will be able to touch him. No pace?..... laughable he looks like he’s jogging while defenders running alongside him at full pace, just trying to keep up with him fade away .... or just about keep up with him and u like James who runs into space in straight lines, mason takes a fair few touches as he’s running and still doesn’t lose pace. He is full of tricks that he actually pulls off.

Mason is the chosen one (sorry rash it must be hard to be the special one not many at your level in your age group and then instead of waiting another generation he will be superceeded by mason in just 2-3 years. This doesnt happen very often we are seriously lucky. No transfers which may detract from Masons progress and future.

England and Man Utd are on the map again. We’ve got a history of producing incredible young talent for England (not from English heritage myself but this club is English and should always be the backbone of every England squad) which I’m proud of. From the incredible and still arguably the greatest of all our youth, Duncan Edwards (RIP) to the best youth player I’ve ever seen come through our ranks, Mason.

Either way, with mason and rash (not or rash they will be a package together) we will rule again. These two are seriously talented forwards it’s just that mason can score from anywhere, anytime, anyplace, any foot... he is just going to get bigger, stronger and scarily better

 

[BR7]

I don’t see a comparison with RVP, having watched football like some addiction for 35 years I will give you a name that I believe he resembles more.

I have to point out there is a long way to go before he can actually deserve this comparison but the way he moves, his touch, his ability to score with both bfeet, close ball control and skills and in particular the low top spin with the instep finishes low down in th corners.....

Again please note this is early days but as people are incorrectly comparing his movement, runnng with the ball to RVP I thought id make my point.

He actually reminds me more of a young Ronaldhino, who also looked deceptively slow when running with the ball when in fact he wasn’t. 25-30 yard goals from almost standing position with little backlift, the jinking dropping shoulder with the ability to beat men comfortably on either side. He is just turned 18,almost played no minutes, is playing well within himself in the first team where he’s probably been told do the simple stuff while finding your feet, and still got 9 goals? How many goals per minute is that?

How many senior players have received the ball just outside the box and tried to shoot on goals and either hit the defender, the defender blocked it or it went miles over or wide? Then look at mason. Torres was so one footed everyone eventually worked him out. You wont have that with Mason that’s for sure.

Give it three years before you come back and pan me if it doesn’t show more and more as time moves on. We are seriously lucky to have him. Do not make any negative comments about this kid as there’s are a few us no will be very protective of this one. Owen came in against Wimbledon scored and everyone wouldn’t stop raving. Masons done even better and yet some people are panning him for his speed? You need to stop...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Pretty much echoes my thoughts. If we had Sancho, he would be our best dribbler by far. He's averaging 3 dribbles a game, while Rashford averages 2 a game. Sancho's tricky feet is something Martial has, but Sancho has managed to turn it into a much more lethal dribbling game. Therefore, in packed boxes, Sancho would be our best weapon. It is for this reason that Sancho would also be our best creative player to get assists. Technically Pogba would be, but he's in a deeper position compared to one of the front 3.

Rashford, Martial, and Greenwood are all forwards/strikers. Sancho is more of a winger/forward. It's a clear deficiency in our side.

After Sancho, we're missing a dominant midfielder who is a constant presence in offering himself to receive a pass, to distribute the ball, to and to resist a press. We're essentially missing a Scholes, Modric, or Xavi. Doesn't have to be as good as those players, but we're lacking that type of midfielder.

Two glaring deficiencies to make us practically complete, but not the finished article in terms of quality.

I agree. One could make the case for another CF, possibly with a real areal threat but for me the two biggest areas of weakness are a complete right winger (someone who has that weight of pace and build up contribution and hence Sancho) , and a true midfield playmaker who can run the show (no idea who). And right behind that would be an attacking fullback, probably a left back.

 

[RedSky]

Still think he's bad at finishing @Harry190 ?

 

[In Rainbows]

Can someone explain to me how xG is actually calculated? Never really understood this.

Basically every shot taken in that same situation. So a very low percentage of the shots he's taken from players around the league, went in.

 

[mancan92]

Mason is RVP reincarnated. RVP didn't have a great pace but was just great at manipulating the ball so could dribble past players.

He really just needs to get half a yard for a shot.

 

[RedRonaldo]

That's really not that important, it's about the performances, regardless of whether it's someone who's 18 or 19-20. Martial was dancing around Van Dijk, scoring against Liverpool off the bench, and genuinely winning this club games. Look how that turned out. He's coming along well now, but there has been serious road bumps. The age difference is kind of meaningless until we see how Greenwood performs over the coming seasons, especially when defenses start focusing on him more, if they're not already as he's been fantastic so far.

As you pointed out, Martial has been doing good now, I thought he has developed into someone I expected he would be. There has been bumps but the whole team went through some serious bumps under different managers, so couldn’t really blame that one all on Martial.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He needs to get stronger and faster. He's 18 and usually he can get much stronger with age, of course given he'd hit the gyms. However not the pace, from what I've seen with countless young players most get around 90 % of their max pace/acceleration at 18-19 years old and their pace or acceleration won't develop much later.

I haven't seen such talent in any of our 18 years old lads except Rooney. He'll be a 100 £m player at least imo, but his limited pace/acceleration would stop him from being more than that I'm afraid. Hope I'm wrong though.

Not all best forward players are about pace, Kane, Suarez, Ibra etc don’t necessarily rely on pace at all, yet they are top tier forward over the recent years. But with the type of football we are playing, player with pace would have been bigger advantage under our system.

 

[M16Red]

Greenwood isn't slow though

He's not fully grown yet, I wonder if he's doing hard Gym work yet - Rashford always said he can get faster with Gym work. Rashford doesn't skip leg day I'll tell you that for sure.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He's not that slow at all. He's a bit slower than Martial, who is pretty nippy.

Anyone would look slow in a team with Rashford and James.

 

[Fortitude]

Seems to be a lack of distinction between 'pace' and 'acceleration' here and that one is far more important for a striker than another.

Acceleration is by far and away more important than pace because it enables a striker to get away from his marker and get his shots off before defenders can react. It also enables a striker to stand his man up, from an upright, almost walking or even an outright dead stop position and then leave him for dead.

With Greenwood's shooting ability and the time it takes him to draw his foot back and connect with the ball with unerring accuracy, it should be clear how invaluable short-burst acceleration is. If he is to play further away from goal, say as a deeper forward or a wide attacker, then sure, pace and top-end speed become more important to factor in but for the striking position of a typical #9: a Romario, Aguero, RVN, Lewadowski etc. creating that yard of initial space is paramount.

Greenwood isn't explosive and he probably won't be top-end in the game in that regard, but he is fast enough off the mark to execute the ideas he visualises and has done so without issue or hindrance to this point in his career as both a youth and now a full professional.

His 'thing' is intelligence, movement and opportunism - he reads not only the play but his markers well and times his actions to match theirs, i.e. he'll take his shot just as a defender plants his feet and sets himself to try and close down, or he'll go left as his man assumes right and in that window, he's already done what he wanted to no bother.

I would hold off judgement on his physical strength, power and pace until he is a couple of years down the line in his development, personally. Growth spurts, filling out, gaining mass and so forth can all contribute to a different physical proposition than a kid just coming through. Of course, you have your Ronaldo's (both), Rooney's, Giggs', Messi's and so forth who you can see the template of from the outset, but there are players whose physical presence is not realised straight away, and besides which, it should be considered that at just-turned 18, it's generally only freaks and prodigies we see at this level of football so we're witnessing a youngsters' growth where for a lot of those in his age range, they're quietly going about their business of developing away from the masses and then start to emerge in the men's game at around 20ish or so.

I should think Greenwood will not look like he does now at 20 years of age. And I wouldn't be in the least surprised if his centre of gravity and core strength become much stronger than it is now and leads to a quicker player off the mark than he is now. He's never going to be an outright pace merchant, but he really doesn't need to be to be a world class prospect. In other words, it's a not case of 'he'd be so much better if not for his lack of <insert>' as you might say with others who emerge but clearly lack a key physical attribute or two for their position on the pitch.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Mason is RVP reincarnated. RVP didn't have a great pace but was just great at manipulating the ball so could dribble past players.

He really just needs to get half a yard for a shot.

Agree. I think that RVP should be the player that he looks to emulate.

 

[BR7]

I would still buy sancho as he is a much better upgrade to Daniel James. We can have Sancho, martial, rashford and greenwood and rotate them or if there’s an injury we have cover. We also need to think of tactical formations which buying Sancho gives us more options of quality players, not Daniel James.

Personally, I’d like to see Sancho on the right of a forward three, rash on the left, Mason upfront (and they are all three interchangeable during a game), I don’t think martial will last the course at United and will end up in Spain. Mason can play anywhere up top tbh And it ends the giggs/sharpe conundrum argument when they were swapping wings during matches as they were both so left footed defenders would show them on their weaker foot , Mason isn’t..... he is as unpredictable as they come if we play him in either side rather than up top)

I remember giggsie trying to cross the ball from the right with his right foot when he was the same age as mason. At the time it was a bit of a lottery with giggsie but he improved that right peg over time. Daniel James won’t be able to he will always be one footed and his passing and crossing with his better foot is average at best.

I get the impression many people here have not been watching the u18s and reserves when mason was coming through the ranks. I get the impression most people just watch his highlights on YouTube and even though it’s his best clips, it still actually doesn’t do him justice. He is currently sublime for his age.

All the other top teenagers in Europe play in poor leagues. One lad at RM has slightly better stats and so does sancho:

A) the German and Spanish league are a joke compared to the prem outside of the two/three big clubs each country has, the rest of their leagues are absolute diretribe and Liverpool walked the German champions off their own pitch last season.

Ronaldo scored his 50 something hattrick recently didn’t he? How many were in Prem and how many were in Spain? Our league is the toughest in the world and last season marked the start of prem domination of Europe for a few years to come.

B) sancho and the other lad at RM play with much better players around them than Mason is at the moment. These kids are not being brought on to save their teams in matches while mason comes on and equalises against Everton.

Martinelli is having a good season stats wise but I’d rather have mason 100 times over ahead of any of these kids.

 

[Strelok]

Not all best forward players are about pace, Kane, Suarez, Ibra etc don’t necessarily rely on pace at all, yet they are top tier forward over the recent years. But with the type of football we are playing, player with pace would have been bigger advantage under our system.

Sure thing but they're all very strong and physically resistant. As I said:

As a striker in the PL you have to be at least really strong if your speed is average or really fast if your strength is average.

He actually reminds me more of a young Ronaldhino, who also looked deceptively slow when running with the ball when in fact he wasn’t.

Young Ronaldinho was really really fast, especially with the ball. I'd suggest you to watch this:

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Mason is RVP reincarnated. RVP didn't have a great pace but was just great at manipulating the ball so could dribble past players.

He really just needs to get half a yard for a shot.

It also took a long time for RvP himself and the coaches around him to figure out he'd be a decent winger but an excellent center forward. Greenwood looks like he could be really good as a right winger before he develops into the skillset required for a center forward. Mostly he doesn't have to take the physical punishment a center forward usually gets until he's ready.

 

[Rajma]

It also took a long time for RvP himself and the coaches around him to figure out he'd be a decent winger but an excellent center forward. Greenwood looks like he could be really good as a right winger before he develops into the skillset required for a center forward. Mostly he doesn't have to take the physical punishment a center forward usually gets until he's ready.

He won't be a right winger, right forward though is another matter...

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He won't be a right winger, right forward though is another matter...

semantics.

 

[Rajma]

semantics.

Not really. Huge difference I must say. Rashford was a winger under Jose, while he's a pure left forward right now, I think the contrast is huge.

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

I think the ones callong Greenwood slow are being abit lazy in their observations, if you watch Mason properly he regularly beats players using step overs or quick footwork followed by very good acceleration, i think because his style is quite languid/silky and he makes it look pretty easy people are fooled into thinking hes not quick, i suggest you rewatch some of his clips and concentrate on the little moments ater his used his skills.

I can see the Van Persie likeness i think its his posture and almost bow legs, i see alot of Sheringham in him with his quickness of thought and i think his linkup play around the box when he drops deep.

 

[Maagge]

Can someone explain to me how xG is actually calculated? Never really understood this.

Some neck beard in an armchair decides whether a chance had 30 % of going in or whatever.

 

[Harry190]

Still think he's bad at finishing @Harry190 ?

Not anymore. Excellent finish for the last 3 goals. Needed to adapt though.

 

[kafta]

Some neck beard in an armchair decides whether a chance had 30 % of going in or whatever.

Sports science at its finest!

 

[RedRonaldo]

Sure thing but they're all very strong and physically resistant. As I said:




Young Ronaldinho was really really fast, especially with the ball. I'd suggest you to watch this:

I don't recall Augero, probably one the best striker Premier league ever had, is either really fast or very strong.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I don't recall Augero, probably one the best striker Premier league ever had, is either really fast or very strong.

Really? I thought Aguero was very fast in his younger days and is still very strong and nimble on the ball.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Went watching him several times in the youth set up at Leigh Sports Village and knew immediately we had a superstar on our hands. If this lad keeps grounded and focused he could become top 5 players in the world. I have no doubts at all. He's that good. Both footed, cool finisher, can take set pieces, calm on the ball, can thread a pass. The lad has the lot. Just hope we can kick on as a club or we might be in danger of losing him one day. We can't allow that to happen.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Really? I thought Aguero was very fast in his younger days and is still very strong and nimble on the ball.

Sure he isn't slow or weak, but he wasn't one of the fastest or strongest forward around during his premier league days.