[KennyBurner]

Martial for some reason is just oddly under rated on these boards. I for the life of me can't tell how anyone watching him can underrate him to the extent he is on the Caf. Could be something to do with people swallowing the usual lazy nonsense said about him in the media or something.

I dont get it either. What martial offers in our lineup is irreplaceable. A consistent goalscorer plus good playmaker is invaluable. Ole knows this and thats all that matters.

I said earlier until I see greenwood in the middle I wont be making any assumptions about his future there. Van persie also started on the wings for arsenal before making the change. These things take time and greenwood is just 18. For anyone to think he will replace martial by next year is delusional. I dont think he will be ready any time soon if even if thats his future role. He will keep learning his trade on the right and developing.

Sancho on the other hand is a natural on the left. I think he is the more talented between him and rashford. We have played as possession orientated team rather than a counterattacking. Rashford is more comfortable with the latter which is why he is struggling a bit more since the restart. Rashford needs to get more comfortable dribbling in tight spaces if he wants to improve.

 

[Member 58925]

His assist against Brighton should be getting more talk. Not only Jadon Sancho but any playmaker in world football would have been delighted with that assist. Only needed one touch, one look up, and the ball is on a silver plate. Bruno didn't have to break stride and ran right through the ball. He's going to be much more than just a goal scorer.

 

[In Rainbows]

His assist against Brighton should be getting more talk. Not only Jadon Sancho but any playmaker in world football would have been delighted with that assist. Only needed one touch, one look up, and the ball is on a silver plate. Bruno didn't have to break stride and ran right through the ball. He's going to be much more than just a goal scorer.

He's always had good weight on his final ball. He was a lot more complete than youth strikers like Balogun, Brewster, Bobby Duncan, Simms, etc...

Here's some highlights in his first real playing time with the u18s in 2017/18. You can see he played on the right wing as an attacking midfielder.

 

[-Supreme-]

I dont get it either. What martial offers in our lineup is irreplaceable. A consistent goalscorer plus good playmaker is invaluable. Ole knows this and thats all that matters.

I said earlier until I see greenwood in the middle I wont be making any assumptions about his future there. Van persie also started on the wings for arsenal before making the change. These things take time and greenwood is just 18. For anyone to think he will replace martial by next year is delusional. I dont think he will be ready any time soon if even if thats his future role. He will keep learning his trade on the right and developing.

Sancho on the other hand is a natural on the left. I think he is the more talented between him and rashford. We have played as possession orientated team rather than a counterattacking. Rashford is more comfortable with the latter which is why he is struggling a bit more since the restart. Rashford needs to get more comfortable dribbling in tight spaces if he wants to improve.

Very good points. Particularly about Rashford, our coaching team must have worked with him on his passing game as he seems to have changed his game since the restart.

Will be interesting to see how he copes with possession based football against teams that sit back and defend.

 

[Prodigal7]

Very good points. Particularly about Rashford, our coaching team must have worked with him on his passing game as he seems to have changed his game since the restart.

Will be interesting to see how he copes with possession based football against teams that sit back and defend.

Rashford was mostly a number 10 In the youth teams and a creative outlet as well as a goal scorer

 

[Tarrou]

"Not as naturally talented as Martial". He will have Martials spot in the starting lineup by the end of next season if we sign Sancho. He is much more of a natural no.9 than Martial.

Martial is doing a great job up front and Mason is doing great in the wide-forward role

I don't see a reason to change it nor any reason to think Mason is better suited to 9 than wide either

 

[lumeyes]

He is a brilliant talent but anybody comparing him in any way to people like Messi are nuts.

If he ends up anything like Van Persie, Harry Kane or Van Nistelrooy etc we should all be absolutely delighted. There are an awful lot of very good players between Messi and Macheda that would be considered a huge success, especially for an academy player.

I can bet he'll surpass Harry Kane, except only in heading. It appears obvious he is at least as much a good passer of the ball as Harry Kane, I'll say better though. The fact that majority believe he is a better finisher than Martial tells a lot about him

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

I can bet he'll surpass Harry Kane, except only in heading. It appears obvious he is at least as much a good passer of the ball as Harry Kane, I'll say better though. The fact that majority believe he is a better finisher than Martial tells a lot about him

Kane is a brilliant passer though, which is for some reason overlooked by many. Consistently picks out tough passes from deep with great technique. I don't think we've seen the tip of Mason's passing abilities yet and he has ages to develop but to say it's already on par with Kane's is just untrue.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Kane is a brilliant passer though, which is for some reason overlooked by man. Consistently picks out tough passes from deep with great technique. I don't think we've seen the tip of Mason's passing abilities yet and he has ages to develop but to say it's already on par with Kane's is just untrue.

Yep Kane is a very good passer.

 

[OldTrevil]

Martial is doing a great job up front and Mason is doing great in the wide-forward role

I don't see a reason to change it nor any reason to think Mason is better suited to 9 than wide either

Agreed, and the more they play together you can see a good understanding developing. It would be great for our attack, only really top teams can even dream of containing a fluid front three of two deadly finishers and Rashford, supplied by a tag team of Bruno and Pogba with any one of the Matic/Fred/McT trio supporting. There's room for both Mason and Martial simply because on the pitch, they create room and motivate each other from their play, like most good players. Given their age and career points, it's also a great opportunity for Ole to play a blinder and build a dominant attack for now and the future while media continue to spew their bile as expected.

 

[Raven]

"Not as naturally talented as Martial". He will have Martials spot in the starting lineup by the end of next season if we sign Sancho. He is much more of a natural no.9 than Martial.

Like another poster has already mentioned, I feel that Rashford's spot is under more threat than Martial's. I feel Greenwood and Martial are by far the bigger talents than Rashford.

 

[spontaneus1]

Like another poster has already mentioned, I feel that Rashford's spot is under more threat than Martial's. I feel Greenwood and Martial are by far the bigger talents than Rashford.

It's a hard one to call, though I feel Greenwood will be too good to drop soon. Personally I think Martial will miss out as Greenwood will be given that leading role. As very Rashford vs Martial I think Martial is more naturally gifted by Rashford seems to have a drive in him that Martial doesn't and will probably be the better player as a result.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's a hard one to call, though I feel Greenwood will be too good to drop soon. Personally I think Martial will miss out as Greenwood will be given that leading role. As very Rashford vs Martial I think Martial is more naturally gifted by Rashford seems to have a drive in him that Martial doesn't and will probably be the better player as a result.

This seems to be another unfounded cliche about Martial. A lot of things he's done at the club so far indicate a high level of drive.

I think in the end it's natural talent that will separate the two of them.

 

[lex talionis]

That Martial drifts out of games is fact, not cliche. We know his talent, but his inconsistency is shocking. At this moment in time, Martial is in sensational form and Rashford is not. But over the last three seasons it was almost always Rashford who lit up our attack and Martial lagged.

We have an extraordinary talent in Greenwood who looks very comfortable attacking from the right side, which has made me wonder whether need to spend big on Sancho. I think we do, and if we do I can easily see Greenwood displacing Martial and not Rashford.

 

[Raven]

It's a hard one to call, though I feel Greenwood will be too good to drop soon. Personally I think Martial will miss out as Greenwood will be given that leading role. As very Rashford vs Martial I think Martial is more naturally gifted by Rashford seems to have a drive in him that Martial doesn't and will probably be the better player as a result.

I don't think it's easy to replace Martial's skill set up top. Sancho is right footed and a natural from the left, Mason looks great from the right. I think Ole is looking to make our attack and team as a whole more rotational but in the biggest matches I think it's Rashford who misses out.

 

[My only Eric]

I feel Martial is and Mason are bigger talents than Rashford and his place would be under threat if Sancho does come.
But let's not forget that Rooney was seen as a bigger talent than Ronaldo.

The competition would be good for the team and the versatility of our fowards is also good. Add in Grealish and our attack would be unstoppable. Also, there won't be a massive drop in performance when we make substitutions.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Handré1990]

I feel Martial is and Mason are bigger talents than Rashford and his place would be under threat if Sancho does come.
But let's not forget that Rooney was seen as a bigger talent than Ronaldo.

The competition would be good for the team and the versatility of our fowards is also good. Add in Grealish and our attack would be unstoppable. Also, there won't be a massive drop in performance when we make substitutions.

This bolded is a good point. I saw Rashford at 18, Martial at 19 and Greenwood from 16 until now. Talent is a strange thing to try to explain or quantify, but I have to say, Greenwood looks like the cream of the crop to me. He’s just got it.

I was convinced Martial was much more talented than Rashford, until this season, where Rashford has had a remarkable development, imo. So much so that I have them very close now. Martial has some advantages, and Rashford has others. Stylistically I do really enjoy Martial toying with defenders and keepers. I’m so happy we get to enjoy them both in the right shirt, but Greenwood will be our best player long before they retire I think. He is just that good.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Very high praise indeed.

 

[Rolaholic]

Very high praise indeed.

He's been training with the likes of De Bruyne, Aguero and Sterling his whole senior career so far and thinks Mason is the best finisher he's seen.

Quite the praise for sure and follows what everyone who's trained with him says

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

He's been training with the likes of De Bruyne, Aguero and Sterling his whole senior career so far and thinks Mason is the best finisher he's seen.

Quite the praise for sure and follows what everyone who's trained with him says

Yeh Greenwood is one of those players I would just love to watch in training, he's just such natural all-round footballer.

 

[dabeast]

The difference between a peak, mid-career player and a young one is experience, brain-development. Cristiano worked very hard early, so his brain-development happened in his early 20s. Mason just got that development even earlier. Cristiano was/is also a physical specimen (header against Roma, etc), and from his very first appearance had that absolute elite kind of body and athleticism. Mason is tall and getting stronger, but doesn't look like he has that elite body - he has some pace but runs with too much side-to-side ungainly movement to have absolutely top pace a la Mbappe/Rashford.

Mason will do a pirouette and has a very good football brain for an 18 year-old. However, can you picture him scoring Messi's goal against Getafe scored when Messi was a teenager? I don’t think he is like Messi where he sees things others don’t see and does things others can’t do. Therefore, unlike Messi, he will be limited in his ability to create for others and himself.

He has enough pace and is both-footed, though, so when in the right positions he will be impossible to stop deep into his career if he stays healthy. With his brain he will be a superstar because he just does what other people can do, but very, VERY well.

 

[Santoryo]

He's been training with the likes of De Bruyne, Aguero and Sterling his whole senior career so far and thinks Mason is the best finisher he's seen.

Quite the praise for sure and follows what everyone who's trained with him says

You shouldn't add Sterling among those names when it comes to finishing. He's nowhere near clinical to be added alongside Aguero.

 

[kouroux]

He's been training with the likes of De Bruyne, Aguero and Sterling his whole senior career so far and thinks Mason is the best finisher he's seen.

Quite the praise for sure and follows what everyone who's trained with him says

His point about Greenwood knowing how to shoot the right type of shot depending on the situation is spot on. Those finishes near post after shifting the ball, it's a real art

 

[Strelok]

It's a hard one to call, though I feel Greenwood will be too good to drop soon. Personally I think Martial will miss out as Greenwood will be given that leading role. As very Rashford vs Martial I think Martial is more naturally gifted by Rashford seems to have a drive in him that Martial doesn't and will probably be the better player as a result.

Tbh I don't think Greenwood would play as a #9 in our current system. At least the next two year, unless he'd become much stronger. And it'd be a waste since imo he'd be better playing a bit wide in both wings rather than in the middle.
Recently I saw some here say we would not need Sancho but I'd strongly disagree. Imo Mason is still too young to handle the right wing for an entire season, especially if we get CL next season, which would be very likely. It'd do no good to his development imo. Signing Sancho would help him to reduce the burden, less pressure and would not be burn out too fast and risk injuries. Plus if one of our trio get injured, then we'd go back to Mata, James or Lingard. I don't like that at all.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

It's a hard one to call, though I feel Greenwood will be too good to drop soon. Personally I think Martial will miss out as Greenwood will be given that leading role. As very Rashford vs Martial I think Martial is more naturally gifted by Rashford seems to have a drive in him that Martial doesn't and will probably be the better player as a result.

Are we still peddling this sad cliche?

 

[Womp]

The difference between Rashford and Martial really isn't that big. People use to peddle that rubbish, until Rashford out performed him and was our catalyst for a considerable amount of time. Now that Martial is performing well again, suddenly he's so superior to Rashford. I feel people are forgetting just how good Rashford was and how he was single-handedly carrying us to results for a good portion of this season.

Simply put, there are things Martial is superior to Rashford at and vice versa. When Sancho comes in, I absolutely expect Greenwood to drop his position, for a few reasons. Rashford and Martial have far more experience, thus are naturally more reliable over the course of a season, Greenwood's ability with both feet allow him to be just as comfortable in any of the front 3 positions, allowing for versatility, unlike Rashford and Martial who look extremely poor on the right.

Most of all - he's a kid and had it not been for our struggles this season, he wouldn't be thrown into the spotlight so heavily. Ole has alluded to the fact multiple times about taking things slow with Mason, I just don't think he's really had much of a choice given our alternatives at the moment.

I don't buy this nonsense that one of them has to 'fall out' of the side. All four, including Sancho (assuming we get him) have different strengths and weaknesses, all four are capable in multiple positions and all four will get plenty of game time, considering injuries, changes in tactics, cup competitions and injuries.

 

[diarm]

The fact that all 4 are pretty versatile means they will all get plenty of games.

Greenwood can play from the right, or in the middle.
Sancho cab play on either side or in behind the striker.
Martial and Rashford can each play from the left, or in the middle.

Let all of them play 3 out of every four games and they'll all end up with 28/29 league games next season.

 

[Trex]

I don't think it's easy to replace Martial's skill set up top. Sancho is right footed and a natural from the left, Mason looks great from the right. I think Ole is looking to make our attack and team as a whole more rotational but in the biggest matches I think it's Rashford who misses out.

Nope, I don't think so,Rashford loves space he gets that more in the big games, he is a player built for big occasions,His best performance often comes in those big games

 

[kouroux]

The fact that all 4 are pretty versatile means they will all get plenty of games.

Greenwood can play from the right, or in the middle.
Sancho cab play on either side or in behind the striker.
Martial and Rashford can each play from the left, or in the middle.

Let all of them play 3 out of every four games and they'll all end up with 28/29 league games next season.

If they're fit and available, they should play more than 28/29 league games.

 

[11101]

The difference between a peak, mid-career player and a young one is experience, brain-development. Cristiano worked very hard early, so his brain-development happened in his early 20s. Mason just got that development even earlier. Cristiano was/is also a physical specimen (header against Roma, etc), and from his very first appearance had that absolute elite kind of body and athleticism. Mason is tall and getting stronger, but doesn't look like he has that elite body - he has some pace but runs with too much side-to-side ungainly movement to have absolutely top pace a la Mbappe/Rashford.

Mason will do a pirouette and has a very good football brain for an 18 year-old. However, can you picture him scoring Messi's goal against Getafe scored when Messi was a teenager? I don’t think he is like Messi where he sees things others don’t see and does things others can’t do. Therefore, unlike Messi, he will be limited in his ability to create for others and himself.

He has enough pace and is both-footed, though, so when in the right positions he will be impossible to stop deep into his career if he stays healthy. With his brain he will be a superstar because he just does what other people can do, but very, VERY well.

I think you are right but a lot will disagree with that. There is something a little different about how he runs, but then Cristiano was the same until he developed his running style by working with sprinting coaches. He was also a bit of a weakling until ~2005/6 when he started hitting the gym.

Messi, R9 and the like can't be compared. They were physical freaks from a young age. Young players have some degree of talent, and of physical ability. Those two, especially R9, maxxed out on both. Mason has huge potential but he is not like they were. He has all the talent but he doesn't have the otherworldly pace, agility and strength they had that allowed them to make your jaw drop before they turned 20.

 

[esmufc07]

If we sign Sancho how does that affect Greenwood's development?

 

[Fosu-Mens]

If we sign Sancho how does that affect Greenwood's development?

Rashford and Martial will be the ones rotating, most likely Rashford due to him being the only one among them that is inefficient and Greenwood not being physically ready to play CF.

 

[podurban2]

If we sign Sancho how does that affect Greenwood's development?

How can anyone possibly know? If he continues to play like he is playing he’s undroppable. If he goes into a longer slump yeah sure then he may be halted. In some games I guess we could play a 4-4-2.

 

[esmufc07]

Rashford and Martial will be the ones rotating, most likely Rashford due to him being the only one among them that is inefficient and Greenwood not being physically ready to play CF.

A good problem to have in any case.

 

[diarm]

If they're fit and available, they should play more than 28/29 league games.

Sorry I meant start.

If you have 4 players for 3 positions, anyone starting more than 29 games will be taking starts off one of the others.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

A good problem to have in any case.

Yes. Having multiple players that can create and finish (Sancho, PP, Greenwood and Bruno) is so much harder to defend against compared to a team with one creator and the rest are end product players.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Rashford and Martial will be the ones rotating, most likely Rashford due to him being the only one among them that is inefficient and Greenwood not being physically ready to play CF.

I think this is the issue, making judgement calls for next season based on 2 weeks of form.

Rashford has been fantastic for most of the season and outperformed all of our attackers. It was almost a certainty that he was going to be our player of the season at one point and suddenly now he is inefficient after Covid-19 and returning from a double back stress fracture. I think he's proven he can be a World Class LW.

 

[bsCallout]

That Martial drifts out of games is fact, not cliche. We know his talent, but his inconsistency is shocking. At this moment in time, Martial is in sensational form and Rashford is not. But over the last three seasons it was almost always Rashford who lit up our attack and Martial lagged.

We have an extraordinary talent in Greenwood who looks very comfortable attacking from the right side, which has made me wonder whether need to spend big on Sancho. I think we do, and if we do I can easily see Greenwood displacing Martial and not Rashford.

Just because you say it is fact doesnt make it true.

Martial is playing a number 9 role which means he is much more reliant on the ball coming to him which in a lot of games where we pass along the lines and down the wings he doesnt see the ball. This season he has set the standard for pressuring from the front.

Even in games where people say he's gone missing he has usually performed very well in his hold up and link up play.

I dont for a second believe he goes missing, that doesnt mean the game isnt sometimes played around him so to speak. That happens to no.9s.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I think this is the issue, making judgement calls based on 2 weeks of form.

Rashford has been fantastic for most of the season and outperformed all of our attackers. It was almost a certainty that he was going to be our player of the season at one point and suddenly now he is inefficient after Covid-19 and returning from a double back stress fracture. I think he's proven he can be a World Class LW.

I did not refer to the games since the restart as basis for why he is inefficient...