Martin Ødegaard
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Every club he already visited must be so frustrated, he is literally hitting at every doors.
Not really, he's been visiting all the top clubs for years now. They all know the score and if they don't then they're idiots.
If he's serious about his career he'll sign for a club like Ajax which will probably enable him to play regular top level football. No need for him to rush to a big club and find himself in a pickle. Lots of extremely talented footballers have found it difficult to fulfil that potential because of a lack of game time, that should be his one and only focus, game time! If he improves well enough he should have all the top clubs chasing after him during his time at Ajax. A lot of these youngsters could learn a lot from the likes Neymar, Eriksen and Hazard on how to advance your career.
For me the big clubs aren't bad for him, United, Bayern or Barcelona are clubs who actually want to develop players and promote them and in same time they are clubs who won't put a huge pressure on him because they don't need him , so signing for a big club could be the right choice.
The other option is to sign for clubs like Feyenoord, Ajax, PSV or even Lyon clubs who know how to develop players while giving them responsibilities.
The other option is to sign for clubs like Feyenoord, Ajax, PSV or even Lyon clubs who know how to develop players while giving them responsibilities.
We've bottled the development of almost every great youngster we've had at the club since god knows when. Why would he come here with what's happening to Januzaj?
Barca are now more aggressive in the market than they've ever been. The patience for youngsters is at an all time low and this has led to them losing Thiago recently. The likes of Deulofeu don't get matches for them as they throw their weight around in the transfer market.
As for Bayern, there's Hojbjerg who not so long ago was complaining that he's not getting a fair shot. They've also become big very aggressive in the market signing expensive players at every opportunity.
None of these elite clubs are willing to risk their position at the top of the european tree so don't have the patience they used to have. Its easier to accept a youngster underperforming if you're building a team than when its at a very high level and that's where Barca and Bayern are. We are just a side that throws money around nowadays and our youngsters seem to play out of necessity than us trying to develop them.
Signing for a big club in a smaller league really is the way to go if you're young and talented. So many absurdly talented youngsters are finding the going hard trying to break into these super sides are are consequently being thrown around to loans here, there and everywhere. At these clubs as a player you have great responsibility but consequences of poor performances are now as much as they'd be at the big clubs. Plus developing physically will be easier as the player won't have to cope with the ridiculous intensity bayern/barca have to.
Barca are now more aggressive in the market than they've ever been. The patience for youngsters is at an all time low and this has led to them losing Thiago recently. The likes of Deulofeu don't get matches for them as they throw their weight around in the transfer market.
As for Bayern, there's Hojbjerg who not so long ago was complaining that he's not getting a fair shot. They've also become big very aggressive in the market signing expensive players at every opportunity.
None of these elite clubs are willing to risk their position at the top of the european tree so don't have the patience they used to have. Its easier to accept a youngster underperforming if you're building a team than when its at a very high level and that's where Barca and Bayern are. We are just a side that throws money around nowadays and our youngsters seem to play out of necessity than us trying to develop them.
Signing for a big club in a smaller league really is the way to go if you're young and talented. So many absurdly talented youngsters are finding the going hard trying to break into these super sides are are consequently being thrown around to loans here, there and everywhere. At these clubs as a player you have great responsibility but consequences of poor performances are now as much as they'd be at the big clubs. Plus developing physically will be easier as the player won't have to cope with the ridiculous intensity bayern/barca have to.
@RooneyLegend
I would like to say first that i think that Feyenoord or Ajax are probably the best options.
All clubs Ajax included bottle the development of almost all the "great youngster" they have, it's like that not everyone can make it.
For the aggressive part and the time given to him, he is 15 nearly 16, he is not 19, he has the time and he should take it, a great club Academy like la Masia can give him that, i understand that he wants to play right now, but that's his first mistake, he'll crash his career by being impatient.
Edit: and who are the big talents that United failed to develop ?
I would like to say first that i think that Feyenoord or Ajax are probably the best options.
All clubs Ajax included bottle the development of almost all the "great youngster" they have, it's like that not everyone can make it.
For the aggressive part and the time given to him, he is 15 nearly 16, he is not 19, he has the time and he should take it, a great club Academy like la Masia can give him that, i understand that he wants to play right now, but that's his first mistake, he'll crash his career by being impatient.
Edit: and who are the big talents that United failed to develop ?
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It's not really that uncommon is it? IIRC a lot of youngsters visit clubs, or come along for trails. Didn't Henriquez visit United for years regularly before signing?
The numbers at the big clubs are dwindling by the year as patience is at an all time low. He might not be 19 atm but he'll be that age soon enough. Just look at Barca's recent production record and see how they've done.
La masia is great but nothing beats actually playing high level professional football and competing week in week out. The programme there ain't all that different to the dutch one's anyways.
Pogba, Ravel and Daehli. We're going nowhere slowly with Januzaj either.
I totally disagree with on your assessment of big clubs formation work but i can do nothing about it.
take a look at that:
We didn't fail in developing any of them.
We marvelously succeeded but some people don't understand that only 1/100 young players become professional.
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Pogba probably the most highly-rated young midfielder in the world. Daehli the second-best young Scandinavian around, and will be at a big club before long (we offered him the chance to come back when Cardiff were relegated but he opted to stay with Olé for a little longer.) Januzaj isn't getting much game-time this season but last year he was one of our best players despite being only 19 and narrowly the second best teenager in the league after Sterling.
And I hear Morrison's sideline in weed and witness intimidation is doing really well. Nothing anyone could have done about this kid.
Seriously though, your supposedly negative examples are actually evidence of how much talent our academy is producing at the moment.
Our academy is producing talent that's for damn sure, but at the senior level how many are becoming man united stars? Well, none so far since Fletcher.
Daehli is nowhere close to where he should be. Pogba is what he is in top level football because of the belief that juve had when he got there, belief that we didn't show. Ravel was disposed of and januzaj's progress has quite clearly regressed.
That's how it works there isn't one big club who produce continuously continental level players, because it's only down on the young men character and not on their technical or tactical abilities.
United like a dozen of other clubs produces a lot of premier division players, that's how you know how good an academy is.
You can't say we did a bad job with any of them. Pogba is one of the best midfielders in the world at age 21, Ravel has become way better than he should've been with his crazy mentality and Dæhli plays regularly for his national team at 19 and will surely end up in one of the top leagues as he progresses.
If you think of the amount of players who never even make an appearance in the Premiership, United have done a fantastic job developing youth. You could probably fill three teams with academy graduates who have made it to the Championship level or higher and are still playing. That's hardly a failure on our part, even if some of those players are Paul McShane, Tom Cleverley or Danny Pugh. They're not poor players just because not good enough for United. Ok, maybe McShane is.
I'm not criticising our academy which is doing a fine job as stated, I'm knocking our first team. We're terrible at the transition from great talents to great players and we've failed multiple times in recent times with that.
Such drama! We bought Angel fecking Di Maria and so his playing time has been significantly reduced, with no real chance to string some games together. Who cares, he's still only 19! It's still only half a season after what was a superb debut season for such a young kid. And he's being coached by the manager with arguably the best record of bringing through world-class players in football. Pretty sure there's no need to worry on that front.Daehli's in the wrong place at Cardiff, sure. But again, he's only 19, so that hardly matters. He'll move somewhere more appropriate and be right back on track. Meanwhile he's doing brilliantly with his national team despite his tender years, so clearly his football is developing nicely.
If your concern is that we've not given these kids enough chances to break into our own first team, you might have a point. But fortunately we've just hired, as I said, one of the world's best managers for that. Daehli and Pogba left before Van Gaal was in charge here. (So did Morrison, but I don't mention him because, as you know despite trying to use him as an example, his departure had feck all to do with his ability or our desire to give him a chance, and no manager or club in the world could have done anything for him.)
Basically, you're trying very hard to find problems where there are none.
We are not terrible great talents at youth level represent nothing, the only thing that you can do is giving them the structure that they need and cross your fingers.
It's all down on the young players mentality and education, not the club.
Ronaldo transitioned into one of the best players of all time here.
What sort of academy regularly produces players at United level? We've had Blackett, Wilson, McNair and Pereira come through this season, who all look like they could make the grade in the future. Last season Januzaj was a stand-out.
We're Manchester United, not Scunthorpe. The percentage of players that are good enough to play for us is incredibly small. Our academy is fine.
When did I say our academy is not fine? You're not getting my point at all.
Going back a decade is hardly going to do any argument any favours.
You said that United bottled the development of great talents, which is wrong and you said that Barcelona or Bayern don't care about youths which is also wrong.
The problem is that you are looking at it with Manchester United fan's eyes..
I'll write a blanket post so that everyone is on the same page cause I can see that many are wavering off the tangent.
I'm not saying our academy is poor or any of the sort, what I'm saying is that as a club we're poor in turning great talent into great players and there are multiple factors for that.
Our academy in recent years is actually producing at a higher rate than it ever has done since the early 90's but take a look at our team and notice that it looks like our academy isn't doing all that well. Who's constant fixture in our team that's from the academy? That's what I'm actually on about.
The ages 16-22 are the most important in a young players career. That's when he has to make the steps from a great talent to a great player. The question is which route should he take in order to get this done.
I'm of the opinion that young players at clubs in smaller leagues are at an advantage than youth players at big clubs at big leagues because they get to learn about responsibility and also get lots of game time. This IMO is particularly true when these players are at clubs which also play great football. Hazard, Neymar, and Eriksen are of the same type of development scheme. That is obviously not to say that its the only way that a player can develop, but it is imo the best way to go about it if you're a potential superstar like Odegaard.
Big clubs have much bigger priorities than developing players and we see that with the behaviour by said clubs in the transfer market. The academy can be top notch but if none of that produce is being nurtured the way it should be due to other factors then it ultimately leads to nothing.
IMO if Pareira, Wilson, and Januzaj are going to be receiving the limited game time that they are getting it would be better for them and they're development if they were here at this present time. I think all of them are more than talented enough to play a big part in our future but then again I thought the same of daehli, ravel and pogba and none of them is here because of the failure I'm talking about.
As someone says no one has a 100% conversion rate but ours is 0 for this current decade and judging by what our academy has actually produced that's pretty much shameful. Many of the worlds most talented youngsters are having a torrid time trying to break into teams and many are failing and that's making them regress in their development.
I'm not saying our academy is poor or any of the sort, what I'm saying is that as a club we're poor in turning great talent into great players and there are multiple factors for that.
Our academy in recent years is actually producing at a higher rate than it ever has done since the early 90's but take a look at our team and notice that it looks like our academy isn't doing all that well. Who's constant fixture in our team that's from the academy? That's what I'm actually on about.
The ages 16-22 are the most important in a young players career. That's when he has to make the steps from a great talent to a great player. The question is which route should he take in order to get this done.
I'm of the opinion that young players at clubs in smaller leagues are at an advantage than youth players at big clubs at big leagues because they get to learn about responsibility and also get lots of game time. This IMO is particularly true when these players are at clubs which also play great football. Hazard, Neymar, and Eriksen are of the same type of development scheme. That is obviously not to say that its the only way that a player can develop, but it is imo the best way to go about it if you're a potential superstar like Odegaard.
Big clubs have much bigger priorities than developing players and we see that with the behaviour by said clubs in the transfer market. The academy can be top notch but if none of that produce is being nurtured the way it should be due to other factors then it ultimately leads to nothing.
IMO if Pareira, Wilson, and Januzaj are going to be receiving the limited game time that they are getting it would be better for them and they're development if they were here at this present time. I think all of them are more than talented enough to play a big part in our future but then again I thought the same of daehli, ravel and pogba and none of them is here because of the failure I'm talking about.
As someone says no one has a 100% conversion rate but ours is 0 for this current decade and judging by what our academy has actually produced that's pretty much shameful. Many of the worlds most talented youngsters are having a torrid time trying to break into teams and many are failing and that's making them regress in their development.
Hopefully you'll understand what I meant by that in my last post and I didn't say bayern and barca don't care about youth, I just said they care less nowadays which I'd argue is pretty obvious to see by their behaviour in the transfermarket.
I'm looking at it from a football fan's eyes.
He is far away from being good enough for a big Club yet. He should stay in norway one or two more years and than he can make a decision on how to continue.
I need to precise, i think that he should do like all the others very talented kids, sign for a great academy and not try to sign for a club with the expectation of playing professional football, that young.
And from that i think that he could sign for a big club academy.
To be fair, with Ravel, the idea behind shipping him off to West Ham was to get him away from trouble, and get him back on track to having a good career. Actually the best thing for him, if not for the club.
Just a shame that trouble goes where he does.
Not even Barcas much vaunted La Masia regularly churn out first teamers, to be fair.
Just a shame that trouble goes where he does.
Not even Barcas much vaunted La Masia regularly churn out first teamers, to be fair.
That's a bit too general. I can't really judge the quality of the norwegian league, but if his level really is that high, playing with juniors that are far below his standard wouldn't do his development any good.
That's why la masia or la cantera are interesting, you have the protection and the care of an academy and the possibilty to play in a second division side with Barcelona b or Castilla.
Pogba's not bad at all is he? We done the best we could with Ravel, he just doesn't want to be a footballer. Daehli is quite good, I just don't think he's suited to the league.
Rummenigge said that we have a good chance. When Kalle is saying that so openly then we are close.
He would be a good kid to get. Im still calm because he is 15 and no one can forsee what he will become. We will start building our new youth center near the Allianz arena this january and he could be a transfer to signal a new youth start and so on. Lets see.
He would be a good kid to get. Im still calm because he is 15 and no one can forsee what he will become. We will start building our new youth center near the Allianz arena this january and he could be a transfer to signal a new youth start and so on. Lets see.
Still can't see anyone going from playing with the big boys and the national team (!) to staying in a B-side for a couple of seasons. From what I've seen from him - and I won't claim that I've seen a lot - he should do well in a low to mid table club in most leagues.
I've seen almost nothing about him, 2 little games, he seems very talented but it was u21 games and the Norwegian league, i think someone compared it to the 3rd or 4th division. So playing for a 2nd division team with the prospect of playing and training with the best players in the world seems reasonable.
I'm maybe too cautious.
He is 15! Messi couldnt play in the PD with 15. Some really need to keep calm. He did well in a 3rd/4th level league. A top 5 league is a very different beast.
He would get destroyed.
He would get destroyed.
Do you know the norwegian league? Or is it just an assumption that they are the equivalent to 3rd or 4th tier? Timo Werner did well aged 16 in the Bundesliga and he's not setting off alarm bells all around the world. Maybe Ödegaard actually IS that special, who knows?
Are there any actual norwegians on this board?
It's quite unusual for Bayern to announce their targets this offensively and I hope we actually have a shout for him.
Some media rated it as such. Its 26? in the UEFA ranking. Nothing great for sure.
Look. I dont hate on the kid, I do love every great talent the world can get. But he is 15 and no one here saw more then a few Youtube videos which can make anyone look like a great player.
We are smarter then that. Lets wait and just rate him as a talent the big club see something in.
There are quite a few of us.
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