I briefly considered leaving it at 'spot on' but I can't help butchering things
Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay
- Thread starter Hellboy
- Start date
I thought it was funny, but if I was the butt end of the joke, I probably wouldn't find it funny either.
They all downed tools. What do you think is the reason behind it? Do you think our attackers are flourishing under him after nearly two years under his management?
Jose is a winner but he just cannot get the best out of players who can be unpredictable while being brilliant.
Deco wasn't bad either like
Mourinho is also the only manager to ever get a tune out of the talent that was Joe Cole, had him as one of the best players in the league for a couple of seasons. Marcelo was pissing around as a failed full back turned winger/bench player until Mourinho arrived at Madrid and trusted him back at left back. Oh, Duff and Robben too... what a pair they were.
The same Marcelo who was being pushed out because Mourinho bought and was favoring a much inferior Coentrao over him?
Felipe Luis couldn't get a look in for him either and he was one of the best LBs om the world when he joined Chelsea.
Not the person you replied to but, again coming from someone who would love Martial to stay, it's the hyperbolic praise and constant defending and shifting of blame that some (not necessarily saying you) fans do for him. It reminds me in a way of Rooney's last 3 years here, only difference is Wayne has a legitimate stake at being a United legend and at his peak was among the best 6-7 players in the world. Martial's best season we finished 5th and he hasn't come close to replicating that form either here or for his country.
If Lingard and Rashford's started only 7 and 6 straight games under Jose and Martial's at 6, then I fail to see what the Martial FC fans here are saying about how the two homegrown lads always getting a pass from Jose.
All elite athletes want to play all the time so wanting to move if yo are only playing a bit part. We also forget that these players are human and confidence and the enjoyment of the game can be destroyed by your manager displaying that he doesn't value you enough to start (or pick) you. It isn't a criticism of Mourinho particularly, just a truism that potential and youth is often sacrifice for expensive or influential senior players. It is why top teams in so many elite sports struggle to develop youth properly.
Coentrao under Mourinho was superb for Madrid tbf.
Chelsea can have him for 25m + Kante. Deal?
I don't, and I did. And the space in between the lines told me that Sanchez was rested for a midweek game before a cup semi final at the weekend.
There's no accounting for taste I guess.
That isn't true. Coentrao only made more appearances than Marcelo once.
But not a patch on what Marcelo is now. Point is Mourinho doesn't show the same faith in all players and unfortunately for us, Martial is one of those who isn't really afforded that trust.
Is Mourinho's case really that unique? Good players fall out with good managers and then do well with another manager. Even Pep once fell out with Zlatan and had no problem letting go of Ronaldinho, Eto'o, and Deco. I'm sure there are more examples too.
I think if you demonstrate the right mentality to setbacks and disappointments, there's no way someone can't have faith in you. It's also this mentality that sets apart great players from average ones.
Not necessarily true. No one can say Zlatan is a soft character, or unprofessional, yet he fell out with Guardiola quite spectacularly. He also openly defied LvG at Ajax and went on to have a great career playing football a different way.
Nani was frozen out of the team in 12-13 due to contract negotiation, yet Ashley Young was so shit that SAF had to relent and bring him back from the wilderness to play against Real at OT. Sometimes mentality counts for feck all when manager doesn't see eye to eye with you.
I think Juve will still very much be interested.
You're talking about personality, I'm talking about someone's attitude towards perceived setbacks. You can not agree with the manager and their tactics but you have to have that 'I'll show you' attitude or be the type of person that see's a setback as a challenge to overcome, not something you lie down and accept. All the players you mentioned have that, whether they're professional or not is a different matter.
That didn't happen.
Marcelo played more than twice the minutes than Coentrao in the La Liga in the 11/12 season which was Mourinho's first season. In his second season Marcelo got injured and missed 24 matches as a result.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marcelo/leistungsdaten/spieler/44501/plus/0?saison=2011
https://www.transfermarkt.com/fabio...11&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=
Knew this would happen. He's not good enough for any club outside of England to pay the wages he'll be currently on at United and asking for elsewhere. So we'll see how 'desperately' he wants to move if he takes a pay cut.
Unfortunately, people are making any old bollocks up to suit their 'Mourinho's a monster - Jose out' narrative.
You are moving the goalposts. What does 'I'll show you' even mean when they are frozen out due to disagreement with the manager? Once the fall out happens, that's it for both of them at Barca and United respectively under said manager. Now we don't know whether there's a similar rift between Mourinho and Martial but the premise that a player can change a manager's mind through willpower is nowhere near absolute as you are making out.
Like Darmien?
So that makes them not a 'big team'?
If you disagree with the manager and get frozen out you can still work your way back into the team. If you're outperforming everyone else in your position during training, you're making it very difficult for the manager to leave you out or at the very least forcing him to reconsider his opinion of you. I'm talking about 'fight'. If Martial signed a new contract and came to training on Monday and said "Boss, I want to learn to play on the right wing and I'll do anything to get back in the team" I bet he'd be playing regularly before the end of the season. It's not always the bosses job to repair a relationship.
I think any player who refuses to sign a new contract at the club should be benched until they do so. It doesn't set the right tone and you certainly don't want to get reliant on someone who plans to leave in a season or so.
No, it just makes the counter argument for Martial a bit watered down.
So signing someone who is 28 is short term, really?
Could Juve afford him? Or would they have to do a cash plus player deal?
They're not the same in ability though. Martial is a much better dribbler, has much better close control, better composure and finishing. Rashford is faster and that's about it.
The idea that Rashford is constantly improving isn't right either. Sure he's started taking corners and free kicks.. but he's terrible at both. And he's much greedier in possession than he used to be.
We're going to have to disagree on this I'm afraid. Martial loses the ball with almost every dribble and is very predictable.
I stand corrected with respect to Marcelo but that does not mean Mourinho does not have prior to driving out or talented players away especially ones who are young and prone to making mistakes.
I made an honest mistake as I remembered the second season but was not sure about the injury. However I don't need to make stuff up to discredit him when he was too blind to actually utilize someone like De Bruyne and Salah after buying them.
A lot of managers, successful ones at that, who give talented youngsters all the time in the world. Mourinho does not have the same patience and it's there for all to see unless you are too blinkered.
He has our club bending over for Fellaini but I hear no such thing about how he wants to keep Martial. Guess Fellaini is the sort of player he values more than a talent like Martial.
You're right about the second part, I'm not an huge fan of our current manager. He expects a young player to have a maturity of a 30yr old, which is ridiculous.
Because Fellaini's contract expires in two months and Martial's contract expires in 2 years(if we consider the extra year). We are offering a contract for Martial and he's the one not signing it.
He doesn't drive them away. They ask to leave, if they don't want to fight for a starting slot. Usually they've been behind exceptional players blocking their route to the first team. Jose plays the game on a fairly short term basis and is a proven winner. I think after a fair few years of not challenging for the title, United are more interested in the now, rather than 3 or 4 years before we see the potential to be realised.
Not sure about the last bit mate. It sounds like we're making every effort to keep Martial as well, he just isn't signing the contract. I know it's tempting to draw that conclusion if, like me, you dislike Mourinho but it doesn't seem fair in this instance.
Don’t then, but you obviously can’t help yourself, as per the below...
Pretty 100% certain both players have been offered new contracts.
If Martial had just two months to run on his deal, Mourinho and the club would be offering him the World in order to get him extended, no doubt about that at all.
But Martial is not just a talented kid not producing. He is our second most prolific forward so he is also producing here and now.