Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

Not sure about the last bit mate. It sounds like we're making every effort to keep Martial as well, he just isn't signing the contract. I know it's tempting to draw that conclusion if, like me, you dislike Mourinho but it doesn't seem fair in this instance.

Well, Mourinho isn't giving Martial some playing time. I am not saying Martial deserves to start regularly as he is way to inconsistent, but bringing him on at '85 every game is hardly going to motivate him into signing a new contract, is it?

Martial for all his faults was scoring well before Sanchez arrived. He is limited as he cannot play from the right and so Jose dropped him preferring Sanchez. Fair enough, but you might have to wonder if there was something better Jose could have done.
 
Don’t then, but you obviously can’t help yourself, as per the below...



Pretty 100% certain both players have been offered new contracts.
If Martial had just two months to run on his deal, Mourinho and the club would be offering him the World in order to get him extended, no doubt about that at all.
Now it seems like you are talking tosh. There are talks of us selling him because he is refusing to sign a new deal. You think if we agree to Fellaini's demands, it's because we can get a fee for him? It will be because Jose really wants him to stay. On the other hand we have Martial, who is not signing a contract because of some reasons which are speculated as him wanting more minutes, but to that effect the rumours are abound that he could be sold. You think the club will be willing to run his contract down and then offer him the world when they can do that now? If you genuinely believe that, maybe you need to come back to reality.

Also noticed you side stepped the obvious points of De Bruyne and Salah as it does not suit your narrative of Jose being a nurturing manager.

Also not sure if it is difficult for you to understand or comprehend simple lines. Has Mourinho come out and said that he really wants Martial to stay? He has said something along those lines for Fellaini. He has also showered over the top praise on him. It's absolutely clear who the manager prefers more and who he finds dispensable.
 
Mourinho wants to have his cake and eat it too in this case. He wants Martial to stay (most likely) but he obviously has no plans to make him a full-time starter, which is exactly what Martial would be for most other European top clubs. If I were Martial, I would 100% be considering all my options and look to go to a club where I will be afforded a lot more play time and leniency. Other talented players before him have left Mourinho teams and gone on to do much better, he certainly can too.
 
Mourinho wants to have his cake and eat it too in this case. He wants Martial to stay (most likely) but he obviously has no plans to make him a full-time starter, which is exactly what Martial would be for most other European top clubs. If I were Martial, I would 100% be considering all my options and look to go to a club where I will be afforded a lot more play time and leniency. Other talented players before him have left Mourinho teams and gone on to do much better, he certainly can too.

I just don't think this is true at all.
 
9jgavLX

If you think he' going to get minutes in other top clubs it's not going to happen. Look at comparison
 
Imagine if Mourinho accept a swap between Martial-Willian. The reaction of shouting "In Mourinho we trust" camp would be interesting.
 
Imagine if Mourinho accept a swap between Martial-Willian. The reaction of shouting "In Mourinho we trust" camp would be interesting.
Why?
I’m pretty sure that Willian and two new full backs would give us a better chance at the title, than keeping Martial and buying two full backs only.
 
Imagine if Mourinho accept a swap between Martial-Willian. The reaction of shouting "In Mourinho we trust" camp would be interesting.

The reaction of those who trust in Mourinho, to a swap authorised by Mourinho, between two players he has spent at least two years working with closely and knows intimately as players and personalities?

I reckon it would be exactly as expected. And rightly so.
 
I think any player who refuses to sign a new contract at the club should be benched until they do so. It doesn't set the right tone and you certainly don't want to get reliant on someone who plans to leave in a season or so.
I don't know. If they're haggling over wages/fees do we bench them until the club and player come to a financial agreement? If you mean a player who even refuses to sit down and discuss a new contract, that's a different issue, although I suppose in some cases the player might prefer to have such a discussion after the season is over.
 
Imagine if Mourinho accept a swap between Martial-Willian. The reaction of shouting "In Mourinho we trust" camp would be interesting.

I like Martial, but I wouldn't be against this, and I don't think too many fans would be either. Willian is brilliant, and we are desperate for someone to play RW. It would be a good piece of business for the team.
 
Mourinho wants to have his cake and eat it too in this case. He wants Martial to stay (most likely) but he obviously has no plans to make him a full-time starter, which is exactly what Martial would be for most other European top clubs. If I were Martial, I would 100% be considering all my options and look to go to a club where I will be afforded a lot more play time and leniency. Other talented players before him have left Mourinho teams and gone on to do much better, he certainly can too.

This is fecking hilarious. Minus of Bayern, I don't think he'd regularly start at any big club. This place is hilarious when sucking onto Martial.
 
I don't know. If they're haggling over wages/fees do we bench them until the club and player come to a financial agreement? If you mean a player who even refuses to sit down and discuss a new contract, that's a different issue, although I suppose in some cases the player might prefer to have such a discussion after the season is over.
Martial's main issue seems to be playing time (which, for me is a damn sight better issue for a player to have than wages as it shows money isn't their biggest motivation) - and he reportedly rejected the contract after he didn't get a single minute in a few games so getting a player to sign a new contract at the end of the season by not playing them seems a bit daft as all they have to do is wait a few weeks. It is different if it is at the beginning of the season like with De Gea.

I think the club blundered by halting negotiations over Christmas for three months. If they had presented an offer then, he likely would have signed.
 
Whether you want Martial to stay or not, lets not downplay Willian as a player. He is a very good one and is better than Martial as a player right now.
 
Martial's main issue seems to be playing time (which, for me is a damn sight better issue for a player to have than wages as it shows money isn't their biggest motivation) - and he reportedly rejected the contract after he didn't get a single minute in a few games so getting a player to sign a new contract at the end of the season by not playing them seems a bit daft as all they have to do is wait a few weeks. It is different if it is at the beginning of the season like with De Gea.

I think the club blundered by halting negotiations over Christmas for three months. If they had presented an offer then, he likely would have signed.
Yeah Martial's case seems more similar to Pogba's in 2012. He wants to have a bigger role in the team, and seemingly (based on his performances) on his preferred left flank or as striker. Not playing him isn't going to have any impact on negotiations, if anything it's just going to push him further away.

Don't think the club has blundered though because if he'd signed a new contract in winter and become unhappy by now, he'd still be allowed to leave. As it is he's under contract until 2020 (incl. year option) so not like United are going to lose him for peanuts if he goes.

The main question is how much of an increased role he wants, and under what terms. Doubt we can really offer him much though with Sanchez and Lukaku here. It's a shame if he leaves as Jose and him don't seem to have worked out from the beginning.
 
This is fecking hilarious. Minus of Bayern, I don't think he'd regularly start at any big club. This place is hilarious when sucking onto Martial.

Maybe I should have been more specific - by most top European clubs I meant the likes of Roma, Tottenham, Liverpool, Napoli, etc. I don't mean the elite of the elite. When I was referencing players leaving Mourinho teams and going on to do better I obviously meant players like Salah and De Bruyne (I didn't think that needs to be spelled out), who went to Fiorentina and Wolfsburg. So yeah, I'm not arguing Martial will be starting at Bayern or Real. Does that make more sense?
 
Deco, Ronaldo, Di Maria, Zlatan, Sneijder, Lampard, Drogba, Hazard, Özil, Carvalho, Terry, Ashley Cole.

That went really quick.

Deco (never world class),
Ronaldo (Is World class for even Portugal and even he didn't like Mourinho),
Di Maria (best season was Ancelotti),
Lampard, Drogba (Ancelotti again),
Hazard (Is the greatest player at not actually being very great. KDB is Belgium's real world class player)
 
I don't know. If they're haggling over wages/fees do we bench them until the club and player come to a financial agreement? If you mean a player who even refuses to sit down and discuss a new contract, that's a different issue, although I suppose in some cases the player might prefer to have such a discussion after the season is over.
Yeah I meant a player who refuses to sign, not a player who's agent is haggling over wages, like what happened with Rio a while back.
 
Yeah I meant a player who refuses to sign, not a player who's agent is haggling over wages, like what happened with Rio a while back.
Ah gotcha. Yeah, I can see where you're coming from in that but benching Martial probably wouldn't induce him to sign like Damien said. If he's 100% set on leaving we'd probably exclude him but maybe the club still hopes to change his mind.

If there's a chance to keep him, I'd like Martial to get some games in the league now that 2nd is pretty much guaranteed. Give him a chance to fight and earn a starting spot for the cup final. If he can play from the start like he did in his cameo v Arsenal then I think he can justify a place. We have pre-season to help Sanchez adjust more to the team next year anyway, he can play one or two games at no. 10 without a problem. If it doesn't work it doesn't work, but I think the fans would be happier with Jose if Martial were given this chance.
 
I don't think this is rocket science. If Mourinho wanted to play Martial he would. There is no reason Lingard should he playing. Honestly for every goal or assist he scores he messes up like 8 easy scoring chances or passes. He's a backup you bring on to add energy or play away against the top teams. Sanchez, Martial, and Lukaku can all play on the pitch together. In fact Sanchez is best behind the striker imo anyways.

Just Mourinho being Mourinho. The football world will laugh at us a couple years down the road because Mourinho decided to play the likes of Mata and Lingard, over Martial or Rashford.
 
Whether you want Martial to stay or not, lets not downplay Willian as a player. He is a very good one and is better than Martial as a player right now.
Never understand the underrating of Willian, I think he's a classy and consistent player. I honestly think he'd provide a lot of assists for Lukaku and has speed for on the counter.
 
They all downed tools. What do you think is the reason behind it? Do you think our attackers are flourishing under him after nearly two years under his management?

Jose is a winner but he just cannot get the best out of players who can be unpredictable while being brilliant.

15/16 was not about football imo. Not really sure why but they all seemed down that season. Do you think our players don’t get the freedom? They are given every chance to flourish and Rashford Lukaku lingard are having their best seasons.
 
Deco (never world class),
Ronaldo (Is World class for even Portugal and even he didn't like Mourinho),
Di Maria (best season was Ancelotti),
Lampard, Drogba (Ancelotti again),
Hazard (Is the greatest player at not actually being very great. KDB is Belgium's real world class player)

Deco was world class under Mourinho at Porto. Easily
 
Now it seems like you are talking tosh. There are talks of us selling him because he is refusing to sign a new deal. You think if we agree to Fellaini's demands, it's because we can get a fee for him? It will be because Jose really wants him to stay. On the other hand we have Martial, who is not signing a contract because of some reasons which are speculated as him wanting more minutes, but to that effect the rumours are abound that he could be sold. You think the club will be willing to run his contract down and then offer him the world when they can do that now? If you genuinely believe that, maybe you need to come back to reality.

Also noticed you side stepped the obvious points of De Bruyne and Salah as it does not suit your narrative of Jose being a nurturing manager.

Also not sure if it is difficult for you to understand or comprehend simple lines. Has Mourinho come out and said that he really wants Martial to stay? He has said something along those lines for Fellaini. He has also showered over the top praise on him. It's absolutely clear who the manager prefers more and who he finds dispensable.

That’s a mental post, I can’t make head nor tale of the first paragraph. You do realise that Fellaini reportedly wants to stay but just wants a longer deal, whilst reportedly Martial doesn’t want to stay.

Top youngsters have been sold or lost before, even by SAF. And fwiw, I don’t think Mourinho is a ”nurturing manager” so where has that come from @NK86? He was at Porto mind, but since his first Chelsea stint he’s a perform now manager because put simply, he gets fired as soon as his side has an off season. Mourinho hasn’t had the luxury of SAF or Wenger since leaving Porto, it’s win win win, now now now that has been demanded off him from every single owner/CEO.
Hopefully that will change here though.
 
But not a patch on what Marcelo is now. Point is Mourinho doesn't show the same faith in all players and unfortunately for us, Martial is one of those who isn't really afforded that trust.
Yeah you just carry on ignoring the fact that Coentrao was Marcelo's backup, not his replacement. It just helps with your narrative that Jose is shite.
 
Lingard has the work ethic Martial lacks, it's not hard to work out why one starts over the other.

No Jose just inexplicably hated Martial as soon as he got here.

Honestly those that defend Martial are the worst people Martial could listen to. He's a massive talent and has all the tools required to be a big player for us, but it is obvious that the guy needs pushing to achieve his potential. As he is now, he's not doing enough on a consistent basis to achieve his potential.
 
Yeah you just carry on ignoring the fact that Coentrao was Marcelo's backup, not his replacement. It just helps with your narrative that Jose is shite.
Yeah, carrying on spouting a point I never made. Never once said he is shite. He is a winner but not great at getting the best out of flair players. Unless you read that as shite, I guess you better change your argument.
 
Yeah, carrying on spouting a point I never made. Never once said he is shite. He is a winner but not great at getting the best out of flair players. Unless you read that as shite, I guess you better change your argument.
Apologies, but you ignored my point earlier so I thought I'd bait you with with some exaggeration.

You still haven't addressed my point.

You want to say Jose doesn't get the best out of his flair players and cite replacing Coentrao with Marcelo. I say Coentrao was his back up, and their appearance totals back that up.

I actually disagree with your entire point, but he prefers his flair players to have a certain profile. Not just any 'flair' player.
 
Apologies, but you ignored my point earlier so I thought I'd bait you with with some exaggeration.

You still haven't addressed my point.

You want to say Jose doesn't get the best out of his flair players and cite replacing Coentrao with Marcelo. I say Coentrao was his back up, and their appearance totals back that up.

I actually disagree with your entire point, but he prefers his flair players to have a certain profile. Not just any 'flair' player.

I don't think I agree with that. I really think that Mourinho has no problem with flair players or any players, in fact I think that we are wrong when we talk about Mourinho having a type, he has used way too many different players to put him in a box. I think that Mourinho's ideal is more team oriented, he is more about a general balance and more often than not flair players are the ones disturbing that balance.

In the end, I think that the real problem for Martial is Pogba not Sanchez, Rashford or Lingard. In order to exploit fully Pogba, you need attacking midfielders that are more "midfielders" than Martial, you need players that will work in away that allows Pogba to take risks. Martial is just not a good fit, it's not his fault and it's not Mourinho's fault.
 
Apologies, but you ignored my point earlier so I thought I'd bait you with with some exaggeration.

You still haven't addressed my point.

You want to say Jose doesn't get the best out of his flair players and cite replacing Coentrao with Marcelo. I say Coentrao was his back up, and their appearance totals back that up.

I actually disagree with your entire point, but he prefers his flair players to have a certain profile. Not just any 'flair' player.
I did address the point when I said that I stood corrected about Marcelo and Coentrao. I mentioned as much when I quoted KM's post who had mentioned that before you. It's just that I didn't deem it important to do the same for your post.
 
I don't think I agree with that. I really think that Mourinho has no problem with flair players or any players, in fact I think that we are wrong when we talk about Mourinho having a type, he has used way too many different players to put him in a box. I think that Mourinho's ideal is more team oriented, he is more about a general balance and more often than not flair players are the ones disturbing that balance.

In the end, I think that the real problem for Martial is Pogba not Sanchez, Rashford or Lingard. In order to exploit fully Pogba, you need attacking midfielders that are more "midfielders" than Martial, you need players that will work in away that allows Pogba to take risks. Martial is just not a good fit, it's not his fault and it's not Mourinho's fault.
So many top teams and managers have employed multiple very attacking options in the attacking third and have been successful with it. Wonder why it's Jose who struggles with having that kind of balance in the team?
 
I did address the point when I said that I stood corrected about Marcelo and Coentrao. I mentioned as much when I quoted KM's post who had mentioned that before you. It's just that I didn't deem it important to do the same for your post.
Sorry boss man.
 
I don't think I agree with that. I really think that Mourinho has no problem with flair players or any players, in fact I think that we are wrong when we talk about Mourinho having a type, he has used way too many different players to put him in a box. I think that Mourinho's ideal is more team oriented, he is more about a general balance and more often than not flair players are the ones disturbing that balance.

In the end, I think that the real problem for Martial is Pogba not Sanchez, Rashford or Lingard. In order to exploit fully Pogba, you need attacking midfielders that are more "midfielders" than Martial, you need players that will work in away that allows Pogba to take risks. Martial is just not a good fit, it's not his fault and it's not Mourinho's fault.
The bolded is what I was meaning. And great point about Pogba.

But if we get the third midfielder to complement Pogba, then surely there'd be a spot open for Martial in the front 3?
 
So many top teams and managers have employed multiple very attacking options in the attacking third and have been successful with it. Wonder why it's Jose who struggles with having that kind of balance in the team?

Mourinho is one of these managers though, so in theory he isn't the problem. In practice our roster is not balanced we all know that, if you compare us to the best teams we lack two attacking players, a top central attacking midfielder and just someone that can effectively occupy the right wing, it's near impossible to be a top attacking team, with three very good attacking players including one CM.
That's why I was against the idea of purchasing Lindelof and Lukaku, Martial was a good enough goalscorer to go into this season with him and build a solid unit behind the striker, and I know that it would have been a gamble, it's just that in my mind it was never a priority because the "engine" wasn't working. I would have used the season as big exam for Martial and an upgrade would have been an option this summer.
 
The bolded is what I was meaning. And great point about Pogba.

But if we get the third midfielder to complement Pogba, then surely there'd be a spot open for Martial in the front 3?

I don't really know what Mourinho has in mind but I assume that he likes the goal threat provided by the attacking midfielder playing centrally, so I suppose that 4231 is his favorite system. And now that we have Sanchez there is no room for Martial, unless Martial develops into a completely different player which is a relatively rare thing.
 
Whether you want Martial to stay or not, lets not downplay Willian as a player. He is a very good one and is better than Martial as a player right now.
Martial already has a vastly superior goals to minute record and he's 7 years younger than Willian. Doing a deal like that would be terrible for United, now and in the future.
 
Martial already has a vastly superior goals to minute record and he's 7 years younger than Willian. Doing a deal like that would be terrible for United, now and in the future.

Oh here we go with the goals to minute stat :rolleyes: