Pogba is twice the player Martial is or ever will be.
Martial is the most overhyped young player ever by our fanbase. He's never been good enough to be regular starter from France.
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Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay
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Pogba is twice the player Martial is or ever will be.
Martial is the most overhyped young player ever by our fanbase. He's never been good enough to be regular starter from France.
what has caused Martial to be so blindly worshipped? It's not like the lads even a character. It's strange, I can't explain it. Is it the Jose factor? People want a reason to hate him and this is an easy way?
He's already signed for Chelsea, won 6 Ballon d'Ors, moved to Madrid, won 2 world cups and Time magazine person of the year, 3 years running, whilst Mourinho is currently needing to win our next game 20-0 to avoid us being relegated to the conference. Have you been asleep?
That list is slightly strange, Hazard and Ronaldo weren't fan of Mourinho. Milito isn't a flair player and Di Maria was very inconsistent and played is better season when Mourinho left, Ozil is a good example and an enigma because Mourinho let him do what he never allowed anybody else to do.
On Di Maria, he wasn't an automatic starter, Callejon was a regular and was used as a Willian type of wide player.
Fair points.
I think he's a good finisher, but I would disagree that he's excellent. However, our definitions may differ. For me, excellence in front of goal means a substantial amount of goals, or a really good ratio of shots to goals. I actually don't know Martial's goal scoring ratio, though.
Is his crossing underrated? You probably see more football-related posts than I do but it's been to my understanding that his crossing is okay. Not bad. Not great. Though to be fair, I never have any confidence from any of our team's crossing.
As far as his decision making goes, I'd still say it's not great even if he has improved it. I still find myself and others being frustrated by him this season. And comparing to Rashford, who is also not known for good decision making, doesn't really help his case for being excellent in that department.
So of course, at 21, those are aspects that can be improved on. But that requires having that winner's mentality and putting in the grunt work to accomplish that. Many here see the potential in Martial that he could become one of the next greats in a similar manner to how Ronaldo when he was here, but can we honestly see Martial using the chip on his shoulder to put in the work? Difference was that Ronaldo worked nonstop to improve his game and has done so every year since he was a teenager. Even when he has achieved greatness with us, he still put in the work to reach further, which is why we see him so successful at Madrid even at his age now. But for every Ronaldo, we have many cases of Januzajs, Zahas, Wilsons, Depays, Machedas, and so on. The way posters go on about Martial's ability makes it seem that he is poised to be the former and not the latter. I agree that the potential is there, but I don't agree that he's got the willingness and the "spark" to take it to the next level. There are many other exciting players out there who are either established or have much potential who can contribute just as much or more than what Martial has done. If Martial's potential can fetch us a great fee, then I say let's go for it, cut our losses, and continue on. Based on recent history, we've not missed many young players that have left us, except maybe for Pogba.
edit: Just want to clarify that I'd be happy if we ended up keeping him. Just that I don't see it being so bad if he goes either.
The only player more overhyped than Martial is Shaw. Mind Boggling.
I agree with this a lot. I honestly didn't expect a lot after Depay leaving MU but even he managed to evolve a lot after leaving. I think Martial is a far better player than Memphis and he will become one of the best wingers in the world. I think the best option for United would be to sell him with a buy-back clause. Let him evolve in a different club, under a different manager that plays more attack heavy football, gives him more freedom on the pitch, and with less 'pressure' that comes under playing for United. In 1/2 years time you can buy back Martial and he'll be ready for MU.
Yep.
Our fanbase thinks that if a player is young and plays for United they are all destined to be the next world class player, or ballon d'or winner that is going to stay here for 15 years so we won't have to spend another penny on that position again.
They also created a false history regarding United and Fergie it seems that the sole reason this club exists is too nurture young players, even if it means we won't win anything and that is all that Fergie did here, he didn't want to win ugly, he never broke a transfer fee, he never played experience players.
It's truly remarkable.
What level is Martial in your opinion? If he isn't good enough for Man Utd, what is his level?Yep.
Our fanbase thinks that if a player is young and plays for United they are all destined to be the next world class player, or ballon d'or winner that is going to stay here for 15 years so we won't have to spend another penny on that position again.
They also created a false history regarding United and Fergie it seems that the sole reason this club exists is too nurture young players, even if it means we won't win anything and that is all that Fergie did here, he didn't want to win ugly, he never broke a transfer fee, he never played experience players.
It's truly remarkable.
Strange list?
Even if Hazard or Ronaldo disliked Mourinho, the fact is that he built a team around them and the both strived. 3/5 of Ronaldo's best performing in terms of output (and I would say style) happened with Mourinho. Hazard won the PFA POTY with Mourinho and was being compared to Ronaldo and Messi.
Di Maria was a starter just injury prone and inconsistent and as you can see Mourinho stuck with him and on occasions his faith was rewarded. Callejon for the most part was a supersub.
I'll accept you saying Milito wasn't a flair player (because I truly don't know enough about him) but, like many other players, Mourinho made him better.
Danielle Lloyd.
He is not good enough for starting 11.
Next season he can have a role in United, but something like Solskjaer, impact player when goal down. If he works hard, improves his workrate and attitude in the long haul could become a starter. But that's a big if.
Can anyone tell me the longest run of consecutive PL starts he's had under Mourinho please?
Straight swap for Bakayoko? I'd love to see a midfield 2 of Baka and Fellaini (at Man United).
We can take Victor Moses while we're at it.
Ffs. Shrewd business
Do you think Emenalo has anything to do with that move? He went from worthless to 40m in less than a year with one year left on his contract, Monaco really needed that.
Not sure why it’s so surprising for you to be honest.
Surely you can see that Martial has enormous talent, which he has shown in parts during his time at the club?
Rubbish.
I’d say Pogba is far more ‘overhyped’ than Martial is. That’s not to say that Pogba isn’t a good player.
It’s really simple. Martial obviously has an abundance of talent, a blind man could see that.
Whether or not he reaches his full potential is another story.
But the talent is there, no doubt about it.
Fans are understandably a bit annoyed at the prospect of letting him go, and him ultimately reaching his potential elsewhere, especially if it’s at a rival PL club.
Is that really that mind boggling for you?
Aren't you the same person that thinks Pogba's twice the player KDB is?
Pogba is twice the player Martial is or ever will be.
Martial is the most overhyped young player ever by our fanbase. He's never been good enough to be regular starter from France.
I've just looked up the total shots to goals scored on squakwa matrix here are some comparisons with proven goalscorers as well as people occupying the same area of the field as him.
Goals scored per 90 - Total Shots - % shots to goals
Martial 0.55 - 2.76 - 0.2
Sane 0.39 - 2.26 - 0.17
Robben 0.30 - 3.04 - 0.1
Hazard 0.50 - 2.69 - 0.19
As I said I'd have him as an excellent finisher for his age and he's not exactly sturggling compared to players people would have as world class.
This video shows the type of crossing I am talking about.
There is probably too much dribbling and through balls in that video to properly illustrate what I am trying to focus on, but if you look at the crosses, they are mostly precise and not just played into an area. The speed and curve on the ball is usually great as well.
As for his decision making it's not expected of young talents to have great decision making and it's surely an area you'd expect to improve over time. The fact it has already been improving is a good sign.
For your final point about desire to work hard and fight to improve. He has shown that already, last season was extremely poor for him. He started the season behind Rashford as an option on our LW. He fought to gain his place in the side and was our player of the month 3 months running. He then got ousted again and has struggled for time since.
A reminder of the talent we might be losing in the summer. If Mourinho sanctions the sale of Martial and keeps Fellaini he has lost me. We may go on to win the league even as early as next season but no doubt 3/4 years down the line this will come back and bite us in the arse. It would be worse than letting Pogba go IMO. Selling a prodigious talent like Martial will have big consequences regardless of what success we have in the short term. He was carrying our attack just 2 years ago. He is already a much better player than Lingard and Rashford and has a much higher ceiling than Sanchez and Lukaku. We would be fools to let him go but then again this club has made a lot of mistakes post SAF era so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he goes.
What's this nonsense about buy back clause.
The guy wont even sign a contract extension and you'd think he'll come back here quietly after 2 years at another big club (assuming big club are the one who can afford him)?
Sanchez was rested.
We are offering a contract extension for Martial. He has every rights to look for other offers or sign the extension. No club can stop a player from going in this day and age with player power. I would like for him to stay and compete for his spot. No one's a guaranteed started for Man United.
He's not going to go to a club where he won't be next to great players. If he or his agent looks at Mandzukic being 5th in minutes for Juve playing as a striker/LW and thinks that he could walk into that starting lineup and then the French XI as a result with Dybala, Higuain and Pjanic setting him up, is that wrong? As opposed to staying here and trying to win a spot at an entirely new position in RW that generally hasn't suited players of his type as well as LW (inverted) or up top, and in which hasn't been given an extended time to figure it out.
That's the crux of the argument for me. If he leaves here he won't be taking some drastic step down to get minutes. There are clubs that are currently more successful than we are, and he could play more regularly than he does here.
Apart from the love he gets from fans I see no practical reason he'd want to stay.
Would happily watch him join Chelsea and we get Hazard or Willian in return, failing that sell him abroad, he's the embodiment of the word overrated!
I didn't count Pogba as merely a talent anymore. He is our star already so your
Pogba is twice the player Martial is or ever will be.
Martial is the most overhyped young player ever by our fanbase. He's never been good enough to be regular starter from France.
was absolutely stupid.As for overrating, that's done by fans like you for players like Lingard and Fellaini and not Martial.
It is pretty good. In club:
From Top 6 attackers:
He doesn't shoot that much compared to the others but his shots on target conversion is great.
Ronaldo flourishes under everyone. Di Maria had just one good season under him. Same for Hazard. Milito isn't even in their stratosphere. Ozil is the only one worth mentioning. For one Ozil, there are numerous examples against him.
After Lukaku Martial is the most productive player in the squad. It would be madness to sell him.
Deco wasn't bad either like
Mourinho is also the only manager to ever get a tune out of the talent that was Joe Cole, had him as one of the best players in the league for a couple of seasons. Marcelo was pissing around as a failed full back turned winger/bench player until Mourinho arrived at Madrid and trusted him back at left back. Oh, Duff and Robben too... what a pair they were.
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What should the club exactly do if he rejected the offer?
It's kind of astonishing to see some of the fans of a great club like Manchester United who are desperate to get back to their winning ways acting like losing a guy like Martial is no big deal; that's mind-boggling to me. The kid has come back from a long way out last season, without making any fuss about it, and he's produced only to be relegated back to a bit-part player for a mediocre Sanchez. To act like he hasn't performed well enough to be in THAT starting XI is also strange. Let me know when the Chilean is setting the Premier league alight again, then maybe there's a point. Until then, Martial absolutely deserves to be a starter on this team, not just because 'he dribbles well', but because he is the second most productive player on the team having played less minutes than the other most productive players.
Now, if Jose really isn't getting another forward this summer, then I can see him try to convince Martial to stay. The reports are that he won't stop him from leaving if that's what he wants (which I believe, right now, that's what he's looking for). If Lukaku goes down next season, then the club is in serious jeopardy without a new striker, and a guy like Martial would be badly needed. If we see Martial starting the next few games, this could be Jose trying to convince him to stay. I don't know if it will be enough, especially if he doesn't make the French squad.
Now, if Jose really isn't getting another forward this summer, then I can see him try to convince Martial to stay. The reports are that he won't stop him from leaving if that's what he wants (which I believe, right now, that's what he's looking for). If Lukaku goes down next season, then the club is in serious jeopardy without a new striker, and a guy like Martial would be badly needed. If we see Martial starting the next few games, this could be Jose trying to convince him to stay. I don't know if it will be enough, especially if he doesn't make the French squad.
Martial will leave. It is better for him, better for everyone. He will join a club where he will get regular playing time, whereas we will get decent amount for him. Won't be surprised to see him at Bayern.
Fergie favoured Valencia over Nani because Nani was inconsistent.
We've valued hard work over flair for a long time in the wider positions.
Deco wasn't bad either like
Mourinho is also the only manager to ever get a tune out of the talent that was Joe Cole, had him as one of the best players in the league for a couple of seasons. Marcelo was pissing around as a failed full back turned winger/bench player until Mourinho arrived at Madrid and trusted him back at left back. Oh, Duff and Robben too... what a pair they were.
The real question is who has been world class under him. Can only think of Wesley Sneijder.