Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

[VeevaVee]

Not every manager out there needs a whole new team. There are managers out there who can improve the set of players we have. We are going to buy 3-4 players this window. A new manager can select the ones he needs. Poch and Klopp didn't bring a whole team in and improved players already present at their respective clubs. Chelsea after Mourinho's first stint kept on changing managers and are the most successful english team.

United literally don't have players for 4 or 5 positions though. We have no LBs (winger or fat and injured, no real first choice RB (winger, and not a very good one), no CM (all DMs or whatever Pogba is), and no RW. We only got a proper DM recently.

The reason we need a new team is because we don't have one.

 

[haram]

When you see how highly limited players like McTominay, Fellaini, Young and Rashford are rated by Mourinho then that is definitely a worry.

I'm not really sure that I like the idea of a squad built to his measurements really. Especially not when we might sell top talents like Martial to get there.

McTominay has played well when given the chance. No teenager in England could step in and play CM against Liverpool and end up on the winning side. It’s not like Jose is saying he is the next Carrick every week. He is part of the squad.

Young is rated ahead of Shaw. He will probably be back up next year. There is nothing wrong with that. Fellaini isn’t going to be starting every week either. He will have been a squad player.

A lot of people who work in football highly rate Rashford. It’s just you who has decided to throw him in there.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Let me clarify, you continued to watch during the Moyes season and the LVG seasons yet decided to stop watching with Jose in charge?

Yea after the Sevilla match. Moyes was an obvious mistake which was corrected quite quickly so I stayed sane. I was excited about LVG till the end simply because I love possession football. Granted LVGs version was horrible but I still believed with the right players it would work.
I have watched Mourinho's teams for a while now. It is always the same conservative style. Even if Mourinho implements his vision completely on the team, there is nothing to look forward to in terms of quality of play. So no point sticking around. I am sure I will start watching again next season but not expecting anything.

 

[Cal?]

Yea after the Sevilla match. Moyes was an obvious mistake which was corrected quite quickly so I stayed sane. I was excited about LVG till the end simply because I love possession football. Granted LVGs version was horrible but I still believed with the right players it would work.
I have watched Mourinho's teams for a while now. It is always the same conservative style. Even if Mourinho implements his vision completely on the team, there is nothing to look forward to in terms of quality of play. So no point sticking around. I am sure I will start watching again next season but not expecting anything.

Each to their own and all that.

Jose has proven his style can work at Real, that 100pt season... Problem is we don't have a Ronaldo to make it work.

 

[haram]

You’ve got to have so much affection for the club if you have stopped watching our games. Especially considering some of the big ones after Sevilla.

 

[Ødegaard]

Let me clarify, you continued to watch during the Moyes season and the LVG seasons yet decided to stop watching with Jose in charge?

Strange hate indeed.

 

[Seveneric]

Each to their own and all that.

Jose has proven his style can work at Real, that 100pt season... Problem is we don't have a Ronaldo to make it work.

So, he's proven it can work at Real, but in the same vein to make it work, it requires an outlier in Ronaldo, who's probably one of the best players in footballing history? Right.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

You’ve got to have so much affection for the club if you have stopped watching our games. Especially considering some of the big ones after Sevilla.

I watched the City game as it was too big to miss. I will watch matches against other big teams as well but matches against normal teams are just pointless. We are not going to play any exciting football. We are going to park the bus to even the bottom sides away from home. Hoof ball is going to be our main tactic.
Watching United under Mourinho just makes me angry now, it ruins my weekend. I can't enjoy anything else after it. It is just better to break off when I know under Mourinho nothing is going to change. That doesn't show lack of affection. It is just my way of coping.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Since when did we actually get great prospects for a cheap price? Ronaldo was bought for a heck of a lot of money for a teenager at the time and Rooney was 4m short of the then British transfer record. The closest you can argue is probably Chicharito but I doubt he’s the shining example you have in mind.

Chicharito is a fantastic example of the kind of under the radar buying we need to get back to. Vidic, Evra, Da Silva twins. etc.

Big talents cost big bucks, always have, always will, especially for a club the size and finance of Utd. That’s why losing Martial is a very risky move, because despite the narrative being bandied about, his number this season is still among the most productive we’ve received from a wide player since the turn of the decade.

Not always, Martial went for 4.5m to Monaco only a year and a half prior to that, we need to start looking in those areas and taking risks on players who want to play for a growing salary. Not the other way around, we've built the spine of the team. Now we need to add in the players who want to play for the club.

At the end of the day if he doesn't want to play, nor stay. Then kudos, we need to start moving on from high paying players coming into the club on big wages and then refusing to sack up and perform in the face of adversity. I'd much rather pay a bum to play above his stanchion rather than waste money paying obscene amounts of money on 'superstars' who've not done anything in their career yet only to have them sook out, create problems and have fans defend them over the manager who should have the right to punt them right into the bin at first sign of wasting every fan's time.

But like I said, it is a wild fantasy and the world of football and the market is different now. Pipe dream.

 

[El Jefe]

Martial in his first season was given the trust that Jose currently gives Lukaku. I really do believe if this trust was continued, he'd be a much better fit for us right now than Lukaku. Long term, I see him being a far better player than Lukaku.

There are some of you so eager to blame Martial but looking at this situation objectively or through the eyes of Martial its absolutely evident Jose will never fully trust him. Lukaku and Rashford have had terrible periods in Jose's reign, in Rashford's case it took a long time for him to be dropped and in Lukaku's case he was given complete immunity for arguable the worst 20 games or so I've seen from a United striker other than Rooney. Martial on the other hand is dropped after one bad game. I would look to leave my place of work if my manager showed this kind of bias among my colleagues.

July 2016 - Martial loses his number 9 shirt to Zlatan without being consulted. Immediate loss of trust from a manager he's yet to meet

November 2016 - Having been our best outfield player in 2015/16, Jose Mourinho admits the following regarding Martial;
"First of all the teams are very different. The way the team played last season – I’m not saying better or worse, just different – was probably more adaptive to Anthony. He was probably more comfortable playing that way, at that intensity, at that [rate] of ball possession and ball circulation. You have one opportunity, you have two, you have three – if you don’t bite, then somebody comes and takes the bait.”

December 2016 - Jose tells Martial "Listen to me and not your agent, I improve player". He cited Mkhitaryan as an example of someone who was willing to listen in order to improve. A year later Mkhi is marginalised and sold.

April 2017 - Says Martial "has to give him things he likes", he even uses Rashford as a shining example despite him having not scored since September. These things clearly aren't scoring goals but intensity and tracking back opposing fullbacks.

2017/18 - To begin the season, Martial is again resigned to the bench but after stellar displays off the bench, he forces his way into the starting 11 rotation with Rashford. Some very good and some average performances followed, however his productivity was among the highest in the league. After clearly outperforming Rashford in November and December, Jose still opts to alternate their starts with Rashford being the preferred choice for PL games. Jose finally gives Martial the starting berth in January and Martial is our player of the month. Excellent goals in wins against Everton, Burnley and Stoke. Just as he's ready to kick on, Sanchez is signed and pretty much takes his spot immediately in our team.

After the signing of Sanchez, Martial's minutes have reduced. Lukaku and Sanchez are untouchable, meaning he's fighting for 1 spot with Rashford and Lingard with the latter being the preferred option. There is nothing Jose has done in his reign to assure Tony of his trust so to lay the blame on him is disingenuous and ignoring the facts.

If I were his agent or his parent I'd be advising him to leave as most of you would too.

 

[United Pro]

Martial in his first season was given the trust that Jose currently gives Lukaku. I really do believe if this trust was continued, he'd be a much better fit for us right now than Lukaku. Long term, I see him being a far better player than Lukaku.

There are some of you so eager to blame Martial but looking at this situation objectively or through the eyes of Martial its absolutely evident Jose will never fully trust him. Lukaku and Rashford have had terrible periods in Jose's reign, in Rashford's case it took a long time for him to be dropped and in Lukaku's case he was given complete immunity for arguable the worst 20 games or so I've seen from a United striker other than Rooney. Martial on the other hand is dropped after one bad game. I would look to leave my place of work if my manager showed this kind of bias among my colleagues.

July 2016 - Martial loses his number 9 shirt to Zlatan without being consulted. Immediate loss of trust from a manager he's yet to meet

November 2016 - Having been our best outfield player in 2015/16, Jose Mourinho admits the following regarding Martial;
"First of all the teams are very different. The way the team played last season – I’m not saying better or worse, just different – was probably more adaptive to Anthony. He was probably more comfortable playing that way, at that intensity, at that [rate] of ball possession and ball circulation. You have one opportunity, you have two, you have three – if you don’t bite, then somebody comes and takes the bait.”

December 2016 - Jose tells Martial "Listen to me and not your agent, I improve player". He cited Mkhitaryan as an example of someone who was willing to listen in order to improve. A year later Mkhi is marginalised and sold.

April 2017 - Says Martial "has to give him things he likes", he even uses Rashford as a shining example despite him having not scored since September. These things clearly aren't scoring goals but intensity and tracking back opposing fullbacks.

2017/18 - To begin the season, Martial is again resigned to the bench but after stellar displays off the bench, he forces his way into the starting 11 rotation with Rashford. Some very good and some average performances followed, however his productivity was among the highest in the league. After clearly outperforming Rashford in November and December, Jose still opts to alternate their starts with Rashford being the preferred choice for PL games. Jose finally gives Martial the starting berth in January and Martial is our player of the month. Excellent goals in wins against Everton, Burnley and Stoke. Just as he's ready to kick on, Sanchez is signed and pretty much takes his spot immediately in our team.

After the signing of Sanchez, Martial's minutes have reduced. Lukaku and Sanchez are untouchable, meaning he's fighting for 1 spot with Rashford and Lingard with the latter being the preferred option. There is nothing Jose has done in his reign to assure Tony of his trust so to lay the blame on him is disingenuous and ignoring the facts.

If I were his agent or his parent I'd be advising him to leave as most of you would too.

That's a good post for the most part.

 

[TrebleFan99]

This is the same insane backing that people gave Mourino in the Salah and De Bruyne farce. At some point we have to accept that if you're a talented attack minded young player Mourinho can't help yoi. If you're a defender or defensive mid, fine. His track record with talented young players recently has been garbage and which huge money attacking signing of his has lived up to their supposed potential or looked near world class? I hope the kid moves on and becomes world class because it's best for him but in no way is it best for us. Mourinho doesn't know how to develop young attacking talent.

Not really a response to my post but point taken I guess.

Fact - Martial is replaceable and might be gone this summer. I'm a Martial fan but if he's not going to play then goodbye. We need 3 or 4 more starters ffs - not another LW on the bench.

 

[Boycott]

McTominay has played well when given the chance. No teenager in England could step in and play CM against Liverpool and end up on the winning side. It’s not like Jose is saying he is the next Carrick every week. He is part of the squad.

Young is rated ahead of Shaw. He will probably be back up next year. There is nothing wrong with that. Fellaini isn’t going to be starting every week either. He will have been a squad player.

A lot of people who work in football highly rate Rashford. It’s just you who has decided to throw him in there.

He's not a teenager

 

[haram]

He's not a teenager

Sorry, a player just coming out of the u23 team.

 

[Santoryo]

All season I've been hearing about how City are ahead of us because they outspent us, now when asked about why we're so close to Liverpool and Tottenham despite outspending them I'm reading that transfer fees have nothing to do with it

Sums up the hypocrisy of some Mourinho apologists. It quite frankly has become pathetic to read.

 

[Canagel]

Martial in his first season was given the trust that Jose currently gives Lukaku. I really do believe if this trust was continued, he'd be a much better fit for us right now than Lukaku. Long term, I see him being a far better player than Lukaku.

There are some of you so eager to blame Martial but looking at this situation objectively or through the eyes of Martial its absolutely evident Jose will never fully trust him. Lukaku and Rashford have had terrible periods in Jose's reign, in Rashford's case it took a long time for him to be dropped and in Lukaku's case he was given complete immunity for arguable the worst 20 games or so I've seen from a United striker other than Rooney. Martial on the other hand is dropped after one bad game. I would look to leave my place of work if my manager showed this kind of bias among my colleagues.

July 2016 - Martial loses his number 9 shirt to Zlatan without being consulted. Immediate loss of trust from a manager he's yet to meet

November 2016 - Having been our best outfield player in 2015/16, Jose Mourinho admits the following regarding Martial;
"First of all the teams are very different. The way the team played last season – I’m not saying better or worse, just different – was probably more adaptive to Anthony. He was probably more comfortable playing that way, at that intensity, at that [rate] of ball possession and ball circulation. You have one opportunity, you have two, you have three – if you don’t bite, then somebody comes and takes the bait.”

December 2016 - Jose tells Martial "Listen to me and not your agent, I improve player". He cited Mkhitaryan as an example of someone who was willing to listen in order to improve. A year later Mkhi is marginalised and sold.

April 2017 - Says Martial "has to give him things he likes", he even uses Rashford as a shining example despite him having not scored since September. These things clearly aren't scoring goals but intensity and tracking back opposing fullbacks.

2017/18 - To begin the season, Martial is again resigned to the bench but after stellar displays off the bench, he forces his way into the starting 11 rotation with Rashford. Some very good and some average performances followed, however his productivity was among the highest in the league. After clearly outperforming Rashford in November and December, Jose still opts to alternate their starts with Rashford being the preferred choice for PL games. Jose finally gives Martial the starting berth in January and Martial is our player of the month. Excellent goals in wins against Everton, Burnley and Stoke. Just as he's ready to kick on, Sanchez is signed and pretty much takes his spot immediately in our team.

After the signing of Sanchez, Martial's minutes have reduced. Lukaku and Sanchez are untouchable, meaning he's fighting for 1 spot with Rashford and Lingard with the latter being the preferred option. There is nothing Jose has done in his reign to assure Tony of his trust so to lay the blame on him is disingenuous and ignoring the facts.

If I were his agent or his parent I'd be advising him to leave as most of you would too.

Really good post. Agreed completely. Martial at no point has been trusted for a prolonged period of time and all this despite him having one of the best minutes per goal ratios in the PL. And even when Martial had turned the corner and increased his workrate like Mourinho demands he goes and buys Sanchez (who was having a shite season for Arsenal) and destroys his confidence playing on the right to accommodate Sanchez before dropping him completely. Martial had won 3 player of the months at that point and had scored in his last 3 games and was in top form. I believe if Martial had been trusted as our main striker and given the minutes Lukaku has had he would've scored more goals than him and been a better player for us. Really poor man management and if Martial decides to leave I can't blame him. The fans love him. His chant is sung more than any player. We know what he's capable of but at the moment he isn't being developed in the right way. Football has changed a lot in recent years. Young players are becoming more and more prominent and crucial at the highest level. Every big club has young players featuring week in week out. Man City have won the PL at a canter with a front line of Sane, Jesus and Sterling all under 24. Mbappe is 19 and plays for PSG. Dembele had one great year at Dortmund and is snapped up by Barcelona. Liverpool played an academy player (TAA) in a CL Quarter final. And people want us to sell our young talented players. Patience is required and dropping them every time they have a bad game adds to the problems. Martial will feel extra pressure everytime he's on the field now because he knows that having even an average game means he'll be back on the bench. But Mourinho doesn't want to develop youth. He'd rather buy workhorses and crocks like Perisic, Bale etc and be done with it.

 

[Santoryo]

Martial in his first season was given the trust that Jose currently gives Lukaku. I really do believe if this trust was continued, he'd be a much better fit for us right now than Lukaku. Long term, I see him being a far better player than Lukaku.

There are some of you so eager to blame Martial but looking at this situation objectively or through the eyes of Martial its absolutely evident Jose will never fully trust him. Lukaku and Rashford have had terrible periods in Jose's reign, in Rashford's case it took a long time for him to be dropped and in Lukaku's case he was given complete immunity for arguable the worst 20 games or so I've seen from a United striker other than Rooney. Martial on the other hand is dropped after one bad game. I would look to leave my place of work if my manager showed this kind of bias among my colleagues.

July 2016 - Martial loses his number 9 shirt to Zlatan without being consulted. Immediate loss of trust from a manager he's yet to meet

November 2016 - Having been our best outfield player in 2015/16, Jose Mourinho admits the following regarding Martial;
"First of all the teams are very different. The way the team played last season – I’m not saying better or worse, just different – was probably more adaptive to Anthony. He was probably more comfortable playing that way, at that intensity, at that [rate] of ball possession and ball circulation. You have one opportunity, you have two, you have three – if you don’t bite, then somebody comes and takes the bait.”

December 2016 - Jose tells Martial "Listen to me and not your agent, I improve player". He cited Mkhitaryan as an example of someone who was willing to listen in order to improve. A year later Mkhi is marginalised and sold.

April 2017 - Says Martial "has to give him things he likes", he even uses Rashford as a shining example despite him having not scored since September. These things clearly aren't scoring goals but intensity and tracking back opposing fullbacks.

2017/18 - To begin the season, Martial is again resigned to the bench but after stellar displays off the bench, he forces his way into the starting 11 rotation with Rashford. Some very good and some average performances followed, however his productivity was among the highest in the league. After clearly outperforming Rashford in November and December, Jose still opts to alternate their starts with Rashford being the preferred choice for PL games. Jose finally gives Martial the starting berth in January and Martial is our player of the month. Excellent goals in wins against Everton, Burnley and Stoke. Just as he's ready to kick on, Sanchez is signed and pretty much takes his spot immediately in our team.

After the signing of Sanchez, Martial's minutes have reduced. Lukaku and Sanchez are untouchable, meaning he's fighting for 1 spot with Rashford and Lingard with the latter being the preferred option. There is nothing Jose has done in his reign to assure Tony of his trust so to lay the blame on him is disingenuous and ignoring the facts.

If I were his agent or his parent I'd be advising him to leave as most of you would too.

Very well put. Should be stickied post in the every Martial threads.

 

[bosnian_red]

For anyone who doubts his potential... look at the clubs that are linked with Martial since this shit broke out.

• Barcelona - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...nchester-United-attacker-Anthony-Martial.html
• Bayern - https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8cun53/gazzetta_dello_sport_juventus_and_bayern_both_in/
• Juventus - https://www.football-italia.net/119158/juve-pole-position-martial

Then Spurs but no chance for them IMO. But it'd be insane to let him go, especially when 3 of the top 4 clubs in world football over the past 5 years are after him. It's reasonable from his point of view wanting to leave, and maybe it's reached a point where he's made his mind up. But that's entirely on Mourinho and the club not getting the best out of him, giving him enough game time and not making him feel like a part of our long term thoughts. He hasn't been at his best in recent months, but he started the season brilliantly. Every player - particularly young players, thrive on their own confidence, but also the confidence of their manager and club. They thrive when given the right system and platform to let them be at their best. Their game will explode to new levels and you might see previous weaknesses change into things they can suddenly do.

Basically it's on the club and manager for not getting the best out of him, and constantly making him feel less and less valued and if it's reached a point where he wants to go, then nobody can blame him, but don't be upset when he turns into a world class player at one of the other big clubs that are after him because they'll give him that platform that he needs.

 

[Adnan]

 

[VeevaVee]

Sandro and Dybala swap + cash deal

 

[711]

For anyone who doubts his potential... look at the clubs that are linked with Martial since this shit broke out.

• Barcelona - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...nchester-United-attacker-Anthony-Martial.html
• Bayern - https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8cun53/gazzetta_dello_sport_juventus_and_bayern_both_in/
• Juventus - https://www.football-italia.net/119158/juve-pole-position-martial

Then Spurs but no chance for them IMO. But it'd be insane to let him go, especially when 3 of the top 4 clubs in world football over the past 5 years are after him. It's reasonable from his point of view wanting to leave, and maybe it's reached a point where he's made his mind up. But that's entirely on Mourinho and the club not getting the best out of him, giving him enough game time and not making him feel like a part of our long term thoughts. He hasn't been at his best in recent months, but he started the season brilliantly. Every player - particularly young players, thrive on their own confidence, but also the confidence of their manager and club. They thrive when given the right system and platform to let them be at their best. Their game will explode to new levels and you might see previous weaknesses change into things they can suddenly do.

Basically it's on the club and manager for not getting the best out of him, and constantly making him feel less and less valued and if it's reached a point where he wants to go, then nobody can blame him, but don't be upset when he turns into a world class player at one of the other big clubs that are after him because they'll give him that platform that he needs.

'Been linked' means absolutely feck-all, and 'if it's reached a point' means less than that.
But despite that shit, I do agree we should keep him, I'd rather be playing a young Martial than an older Sanchez any day. Let's watch a man grow and improve rather than have to hope he isn't past it.

 

[Kearnkoff69]

Put Martial under Guardiola or Pochettino (not a comparison of coach quality there, to be clear) and he'd look like a world beater, or he would have flamed out already. Coaching makes a huge difference, as does team style and tactics, especially when it comes to getting the best out of young players. Hope we keep him around.

 

[Shejkus]

July 2016 - Martial loses his number 9 shirt to Zlatan without being consulted. Immediate loss of trust from a manager he's yet to meet

November 2016 - Having been our best outfield player in 2015/16, Jose Mourinho admits the following regarding Martial;
"First of all the teams are very different. The way the team played last season – I’m not saying better or worse, just different – was probably more adaptive to Anthony. He was probably more comfortable playing that way, at that intensity, at that [rate] of ball possession and ball circulation. You have one opportunity, you have two, you have three – if you don’t bite, then somebody comes and takes the bait.”

December 2016 - Jose tells Martial "Listen to me and not your agent, I improve player". He cited Mkhitaryan as an example of someone who was willing to listen in order to improve. A year later Mkhi is marginalised and sold.

April 2017 - Says Martial "has to give him things he likes", he even uses Rashford as a shining example despite him having not scored since September. These things clearly aren't scoring goals but intensity and tracking back opposing fullbacks.

2017/18 - To begin the season, Martial is again resigned to the bench but after stellar displays off the bench, he forces his way into the starting 11 rotation with Rashford. Some very good and some average performances followed, however his productivity was among the highest in the league. After clearly outperforming Rashford in November and December, Jose still opts to alternate their starts with Rashford being the preferred choice for PL games. Jose finally gives Martial the starting berth in January and Martial is our player of the month. Excellent goals in wins against Everton, Burnley and Stoke. Just as he's ready to kick on, Sanchez is signed and pretty much takes his spot immediately in our team.

Mourinho before our game vs Wigan in the FA cup last year
"Martial plays [against Wigan]. I am looking for him to guarantee a place for the next match. If he plays really well, obviously he stays in. If he doesn't play well, I have other choices." Martial assists two goals for our win and he finds himself on the bench for the next game. Note the really well not just well but really well that's the standard he has to perform to be a mainstay in Mourinhos side while some players get afforded that by playing alright ain't that a ...

 

[Silas]

Martial in his first season was given the trust that Jose currently gives Lukaku. I really do believe if this trust was continued, he'd be a much better fit for us right now than Lukaku. Long term, I see him being a far better player than Lukaku.

There are some of you so eager to blame Martial but looking at this situation objectively or through the eyes of Martial its absolutely evident Jose will never fully trust him. Lukaku and Rashford have had terrible periods in Jose's reign, in Rashford's case it took a long time for him to be dropped and in Lukaku's case he was given complete immunity for arguable the worst 20 games or so I've seen from a United striker other than Rooney. Martial on the other hand is dropped after one bad game. I would look to leave my place of work if my manager showed this kind of bias among my colleagues.

July 2016 - Martial loses his number 9 shirt to Zlatan without being consulted. Immediate loss of trust from a manager he's yet to meet

November 2016 - Having been our best outfield player in 2015/16, Jose Mourinho admits the following regarding Martial;
"First of all the teams are very different. The way the team played last season – I’m not saying better or worse, just different – was probably more adaptive to Anthony. He was probably more comfortable playing that way, at that intensity, at that [rate] of ball possession and ball circulation. You have one opportunity, you have two, you have three – if you don’t bite, then somebody comes and takes the bait.”

December 2016 - Jose tells Martial "Listen to me and not your agent, I improve player". He cited Mkhitaryan as an example of someone who was willing to listen in order to improve. A year later Mkhi is marginalised and sold.

April 2017 - Says Martial "has to give him things he likes", he even uses Rashford as a shining example despite him having not scored since September. These things clearly aren't scoring goals but intensity and tracking back opposing fullbacks.

2017/18 - To begin the season, Martial is again resigned to the bench but after stellar displays off the bench, he forces his way into the starting 11 rotation with Rashford. Some very good and some average performances followed, however his productivity was among the highest in the league. After clearly outperforming Rashford in November and December, Jose still opts to alternate their starts with Rashford being the preferred choice for PL games. Jose finally gives Martial the starting berth in January and Martial is our player of the month. Excellent goals in wins against Everton, Burnley and Stoke. Just as he's ready to kick on, Sanchez is signed and pretty much takes his spot immediately in our team.

After the signing of Sanchez, Martial's minutes have reduced. Lukaku and Sanchez are untouchable, meaning he's fighting for 1 spot with Rashford and Lingard with the latter being the preferred option. There is nothing Jose has done in his reign to assure Tony of his trust so to lay the blame on him is disingenuous and ignoring the facts.

If I were his agent or his parent I'd be advising him to leave as most of you would too.

Good post, but it won't make a difference to a lot of people's opinions. Doesn't huff and puff enough, so his productivity, despite his treatment, is irrelevant. If he does leave, I wouldn't be surprised to see some revisionism regarding his time here.

 

[tenpoless]

People say He'd do better in another team, there's no evidence of that. I'd be gutted if He leaves but We still have Rashford who also has an immense potential in my opinion. The problem is We have 2 super talented players fighting for the same spot which belongs to Alexis fecking Sanchez. Hope He stays.

 

[TrebleFan99]

If transfer fees have nothing to do with it, why are the biggest spenders 1st? And the 2nd biggest spenders currently 2nd?

Almost every season of the PL the teams who finish top 4 are the ones with the biggest spend on transfers and wages. It's the same in other leagues as well.

PSG & City went from being average teams to top class teams because they spend way more than others. Chelsea as well when Roman came in.

So Spurs having a similar level of player to us by spending a fraction of the money is kind of a big deal. It reflects well on them and badly on us.

We've improved no doubt. But not by that much imo. Our style of play is still dour at times and the attacking players lack chemistry.

You’re contradicting yourself. You say Mourinho is spending too much on transfers to be 2nd in the league.

Then you point out how City spent most and are 1st place, United 2nd...

Get off Bayern nuts too - the league is garbage and Pep got them no better than a 90 year old Heynckes (so much for you talking about out dated managers).

If they want Martial they can have him - he’s lazy, no confidence, and refuses to learn a new language - good luck in Germany LOL

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Work rate is not just about tracking back. I was talking about attacking work rate. His off the ball runs and work rate is not there and when he plays he is also part of the problem when we dont look cohesive.

It's there. It just could be better. Oddly enough, it was better under Van Gaal that's for sure. He has something to work on which as a young footballers isn't really a surprise. Like I said, your one or two young stars shouldn't be part of the problem that makes you lack cohesion. Your team's core should be strong enough to ensure a heavier reliance on the more experienced players. These are the things that help develop young talents like Rashford or Martial since no 21/22 year turns out perfect.

 

[haram]

It's there. It just could be better. Oddly enough, it was better under Van Gaal that's for sure. He has something to work on which as a young footballers isn't really a surprise. Like I said, your one or two young stars shouldn't be part of the problem that makes you lack cohesion. Your team's core should be strong enough to ensure a heavier reliance on the more experienced players. These are the things that help develop young talents like Rashford or Martial since no 21/22 year turns out perfect.

No, it wasn’t better under van Gaal at all. The team was built around getting Martial space to receive the ball and run at the fullbacks 1v1, which he is good at. He was our only outlet. Now that he isn’t, his lack of movement, runs off the ball and work rate gets exposed.

Under van Gaal he did not have to make runs or movement for others. The reason he got all his hype after the first year was because of his dangerous dribbling and ball control. Not because he had good movement without the ball. It was never on him to make that type of movement. It was his job to stay in a position, whilst we passed it side way and backwards waiting for the perfect opportunity to feed him the ball so he could run at a fullback.

He isn’t good enough to be a winger. He isn't good enough to be the lone number 9. So he is inbetween. He is a forward, that much is certain. That’s the reality with Martial.

 

[Sky1981]

Eh? You sure you're replying to me? I agree about his workrate, I see him as a player who's missing a lot of basic stuff, much like Sterling was during his first season at City.
But going forward, and from having a general idea of what type of character he is, I don't think he can adapt to an old-school, no-nonsense, virile coach like Mourinho. He is very much a modern footballer, a bit of a bitch. More showmanship than substance. The only way you'd maximize his potential is to cajole him. I am not a big fan of that approach, but I am lucid enough to understand that is how it works nowadays.

Sorry. Friendly fire

 

[Silas]

He isn’t good enough to be a winger. He isn't good enough to be the lone number 9. So he is inbetween. He is a forward, that much is certain. That’s the reality with Martial.

Huh, who's standard is he being judged against? He's still been our best option on the left this season and has been one of the most productive wide players in the league this season. His movement, while not like a typical winger's is still good around the box. Look at his assist against Arsenal, goal against Spurs, his goal against Burton Albion, his assist against Derby, or even his chance against Newcastle. It's definitely something he's worked on to a degree and with proper coaching it could and should reach a good level.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Under van Gaal he did not have to make runs or movement for others. The reason he got all his hype after the first year was because of his dangerous dribbling and ball control. Not because he had good movement without the ball. It was never on him to make that type of movement. It was his job to stay in a position, whilst we passed it side way and backwards waiting for the perfect opportunity to feed him the ball so he could run at a fullback.

He isn’t good enough to be a winger. He isn't good enough to be the lone number 9. So he is inbetween. He is a forward, that much is certain. That’s the reality with Martial.

He should be directly above Lukaku. He's quicker, and Lukaku can link the ball to him and with his dangerous dribbling and ball control he will score many goals.

 

[haram]

Huh, who's standard is he being judged against? He's still been our best option on the left this season and has been one of the most productive wide players in the league this season. His movement, while not like a typical winger's is still good around the box. Look at his assist against Arsenal, goal against Spurs, his goal against Burton Albion, his assist against Derby, or even his chance against Newcastle. It's definitely something he's worked on to a degree and with proper coaching it could and should reach a good level.

Off the top of my head, those examples were not created in a tradional 'winger' fashion. A lot of those are closer to a central position. Which is my point. That’s where he is better, not as a winger or a lone number 9. He is inbetween.

He should be directly above Lukaku. He's quicker, and Lukaku can link the ball to him and with his dangerous dribbling and ball control he will score many goals.

I think he would be much better playing just off Lukaku. Hopefully he stays and perhaps next season we can try 352 more and see him in that position. It’s difficult to balance the team in a 4411 with the current players.

 

[Silas]

Off the top of my head, those examples were not created in a tradional 'winger' fashion. A lot of those are closer to a central position. Which is my point. That’s where he is better, not as a winger or a lone number 9. He is inbetween.

The Newcastle chance definitely came from a run from the right wing, but I did acknowledge his type of movement isn't the typical running down the line for a through ball.

I'm not even sure how much Mourinho cares about 'proper' wingplay, considering his apparent liking for Mata and Sanchez, who both spend more time centrally, dropping deep than running in behind. He seems to prefer wide forwards and isn't interested in adding another attacker supposedly, implying he doesn't need/want real wingers. He even acknowledged that Sanchez didn't have the kind of movement he wanted for the Liverpool match, which was his reasoning for playing Rashford instead. Seeing as Sanchez is now first choice, it's obvious that stretching the play through the tireless running of wingers isn't a priority for Mou. I just don't see Martial's lack of 'winger movement' as a good enough reason to say he isn't a good fit when probably plays more similarly to a winger than Alexis does.

 

[haram]

The Newcastle chance definitely came from a run from the right wing, but I did acknowledge his type of movement isn't the typical running down the line for a through ball.

I'm not even sure how much Mourinho cares about 'proper' wingplay, considering his apparent liking for Mata and Sanchez, who both spend more time centrally, dropping deep than running in behind. He seems to prefer wide forwards and isn't interested in adding another attacker supposedly, implying he doesn't need/want real wingers. He even acknowledged that Sanchez didn't have the kind of movement he wanted for the Liverpool match, which was his reasoning for playing Rashford instead. Seeing as Sanchez is now first choice, it's obvious that stretching the play through the tireless running of wingers isn't a priority for Mou. I just don't see Martial's lack of 'winger movement' as a good enough reason to say he isn't a good fit when probably plays more similarly to a winger than Alexis does.

Mourinho has made his admiration for Willian clear. He also went after Perisic. He does care for 'real' wingers. Sanchez comes inside and acts as a playmaker, he doesn’t play the same as Martial off the left. Mata also acts as a playmaker off the right.

Martial is not a winger. Martial is not a lone number 9. Martial is not the type of player to drop deeper into midfield and be the play making type. Sanchez and Mata are much more comfortable coming inside and being part of the midfield. Martial is not a number 10. He is inbetween all of this.

You can see it is not very easy just to fit him in and get the best out of him. He is a forward but is inbetween all of the tradional roles such as playmaker, winger and the number 9. He IS talented, he is a very good dribbler, has good ball control and good finishing. We have seen flashes of his link up with Lukaku. But it is not as simple as just playing him off the left IMO.

 

[Silas]

Mourinho has made his admiration for Willian clear. He also went after Perisic. He does care for 'real' wingers. Sanchez comes inside and acts as a playmaker, he doesn’t play the same as Martial off the left. Mata also acts as a playmaker off the right.

Sure, last summer, but there hasn't been much indicating he's still interested in either player. Well, that's my point; neither really play like wingers, so why is Martial the one that gets slated for not playing like one, as if it's a requirement? If Mourinho's fine with playing two playmakers on the wing, then I don't see Martial's style of play being some sort of antithesis to everything he stands for.

 

[haram]

Sure, last summer, but there hasn't been much indicating he's still interested in either player. Well, that's my point; neither really play like wingers, so why is Martial the one that gets slated for not playing like one, as if it's a requirement? If Mourinho's fine with playing two playmakers on the wing, then I don't see Martial's style of play being some sort of antithesis to everything he stands for.

I edited my post to expand on it. Sanchez and Mata can act as playmakers off the left and right, and are comfortable being part of the midfield. That is not Martial’s game either. He is not a playmaker. Nor is he a winger, or a lone number 9. This is down to the type of player Martial is. He is a forward inbetween all of these positions.

If you are not a winger, nor are you a playmaker who can join with midfield off a wider position, what are you? You cannot just be shifted to number 10 either because you are not a playmaker. You are an awkward forward. A LF if you like. That’s probably what describes Martial the best.

 

[kouroux]

It's all good if you cannot be arsed about the possibility of loosing Martial but consider the following points:

Ask any Chelsea fan today and they'll tell you that they could have done with a KDB in their team right now but we were sold the fable that the boy's character was questionable. That viewpoint for many was questionable because the lad was not given a fair chance for compete for a shirt and I remember that game vs Hull City iirc when I thought to myself, 'this boy is a star in the making'. It was on the back of the gaffer's response after that game that he reportedly decided that he'd be better off elsewhere perhaps. It begs the question, was Jose's mind made up from the onset?

KDB in the city team is a walking machine that never stops going. Seems to be a little fatigued now though.

You don't seem to realize that a similar scenario is playing out where we glorify short-termism over and above what the future holds. Martial has got time on his side and is on an upward trajectory whilst Sanchez is approaching the end of his 'shelf life' sadly. Now there is every possibility that Sanchez wouldn't hit the heights that we have imagined that he would (God forbid, however it's always safer to plan for the worst case scenario).

Its not like both of them cannot start in the same side or they cannot both fight for a place at the very least.

Some players get a nod irrespective of their form whilst some others will be left out at the slightest opportunity. Tell me, where's the competition? If both players were fighting for a place, that would be more fair and imo, would bring out the best in both players but when one player knows or feels that he's just there pending when the manager gets the opportunity to let him go, it'd be hard to give his unreserved commitment. From the word go, Jose's body language has not really helped to shake off the feeling that maybe he's second choice. I'm talking particularly about him being stripped off his shirt for one who it was clear wouldn't be in the team for much longer.

Now the way bright attackers are being priced in the market is another factor that makes this whole saga all the more sad.

Let's say no to short-termism.

Just because KDB happened to become a truly world class player, doesn't mean the same will happen with Martial and besides some players develop better in different environments than in others. Him staying at Man United could also hinder him and they key to him blossoming could be elsewhere, not every talented player is meant to blossom at Man Utd.
Why are you even talking to me about Sanchez like I'm defending him over Martial anyway. You're creating arguments and drama by yourself and for yourself.
Just to be precise, I don't disagree with your general view but I find it pathetic how you're going full "drama queen" about it. Talking about crying, ffs. Better players than Martial left the club before and will always leave.

 

[prath92]

Martial in his first season was given the trust that Jose currently gives Lukaku. I really do believe if this trust was continued, he'd be a much better fit for us right now than Lukaku. Long term, I see him being a far better player than Lukaku.

There are some of you so eager to blame Martial but looking at this situation objectively or through the eyes of Martial its absolutely evident Jose will never fully trust him. Lukaku and Rashford have had terrible periods in Jose's reign, in Rashford's case it took a long time for him to be dropped and in Lukaku's case he was given complete immunity for arguable the worst 20 games or so I've seen from a United striker other than Rooney. Martial on the other hand is dropped after one bad game. I would look to leave my place of work if my manager showed this kind of bias among my colleagues.

July 2016 - Martial loses his number 9 shirt to Zlatan without being consulted. Immediate loss of trust from a manager he's yet to meet

November 2016 - Having been our best outfield player in 2015/16, Jose Mourinho admits the following regarding Martial;
"First of all the teams are very different. The way the team played last season – I’m not saying better or worse, just different – was probably more adaptive to Anthony. He was probably more comfortable playing that way, at that intensity, at that [rate] of ball possession and ball circulation. You have one opportunity, you have two, you have three – if you don’t bite, then somebody comes and takes the bait.”

December 2016 - Jose tells Martial "Listen to me and not your agent, I improve player". He cited Mkhitaryan as an example of someone who was willing to listen in order to improve. A year later Mkhi is marginalised and sold.

April 2017 - Says Martial "has to give him things he likes", he even uses Rashford as a shining example despite him having not scored since September. These things clearly aren't scoring goals but intensity and tracking back opposing fullbacks.

2017/18 - To begin the season, Martial is again resigned to the bench but after stellar displays off the bench, he forces his way into the starting 11 rotation with Rashford. Some very good and some average performances followed, however his productivity was among the highest in the league. After clearly outperforming Rashford in November and December, Jose still opts to alternate their starts with Rashford being the preferred choice for PL games. Jose finally gives Martial the starting berth in January and Martial is our player of the month. Excellent goals in wins against Everton, Burnley and Stoke. Just as he's ready to kick on, Sanchez is signed and pretty much takes his spot immediately in our team.

After the signing of Sanchez, Martial's minutes have reduced. Lukaku and Sanchez are untouchable, meaning he's fighting for 1 spot with Rashford and Lingard with the latter being the preferred option. There is nothing Jose has done in his reign to assure Tony of his trust so to lay the blame on him is disingenuous and ignoring the facts.

If I were his agent or his parent I'd be advising him to leave as most of you would too.

It’s quite obvious why lukaku was given more. He is a proven scorer who started very well and went off boil for a few games. Lukaku is someone who has proven for multiple seasons at different clubs he can score. Same with Sanchez. Guys like martial and Rashford are not in that category yet so not given that bit of leeway.

Rashford wasn’t preferred over martial at all. Martial started most matches in November and December on the contrary.

 

[Swift Football]

I am struggling to see why we have not played both Sanchez and Martial together - Sanchez behind Lukaku and Martial on the left. Sanchez has almost everything to succeed there. At least we can try and see how it pans out.

Sanchez anyway likes to come in the middle of pitch, and martial can stay on the left wing. Yes, martial likes to cut inside every time, and is not ideal to hold the width in the left wing but the combination cannot be any worse than what we are fielding now.

 

[Bearded One]

Just because KDB happened to become a truly world class player, doesn't mean the same will happen with Martial and besides some players develop better in different environments than in others. Him staying at Man United could also hinder him and they key to him blossoming could be elsewhere, not every talented player is meant to blossom at Man Utd.
Why are you even talking to me about Sanchez like I'm defending him over Martial anyway. You're creating arguments and drama by yourself and for yourself.
Just to be precise, I don't disagree with your general view but I find it pathetic how you're going full "drama queen" about it. Talking about crying, ffs. Better players than Martial left the club before and will always leave.

Yes right now there is no way we will know for sure. He may go on and become truly world class should he leave or he may not. However I believe we should help ourselves as much as we can and whenever we can. The argument that he may not succeed so what's all the fuss about making sure he doesn't leave looks to me like 'I may get an accident on the road if I step out so I don't need to get out of bed at all costs.'

The point of bringing Sanchez into the conversation was because Martial's reduced game time has a direct correlation with his coming. I was trying to butress my point about short-termism (one of the reasons I gave about why we must keep Martial).

Also when I referenced KDB I was trying to dig up some issues and I said the following words in that post, 'it begs the question, was Jose's mind made up on the player before the player kicked a ball for him?'

Better players have left the club indeed and some where dodged bullets and others were wrong decisions but whatever we can do better now let's do it and not make an excuse for what seems to be a potential mistake waiting to happen.

Like I said earlier if you cannot be arsed, then fair enough however I can clearly see world class potential and considering the state the team has been in post SAF and the fact that it will become increasingly more costly to sign truly world class talent with the direction the market is now taking, the possibility of loosing Martial gets to my skin. It's so pointless to me. Make no mistakes we hit a jackpot with Martial. A little more encouragement and assurance and guiduance and you wouldn't believe the player you will see.

I also appreciate that you may not see it that way or you may not rate Martial as much as I do perhaps because of what you have seen from him in he last couple of years and having grown up in a multicultural setting I have learned to see things from others' perspectives but I put it to you that if you did rate Martial as much as I do you'd be rightly pissed off. It's pretty weird to me to not feel remorseful hearing that we might loose a top talent who can seriously take the club to the next level.

If we have ever made a mistake in the transfer market before, should we go ahead and make another mistake? Loosing better players in the past is not justification that we can loose one of our brightest prospects and feel okay with that.