Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

Sky1981 said:
What makes us great is trophies. The rest are secondary.

Class of 92 would be a footnote without trophies.
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For sure, we are defined by our success and trophy haul so they must always be the main aim. But is it really so bad to want us to be more than just results driven? Especially with all the resources at our disposal there isn't any reason why we should have to pick between winning trophies or playing youth/different style of football. Probably a discussion for another thread I suppose.
 
Sky1981 said:
When the best manager in the business, yes.. i consider jose the top manager bracket regardless of how much some of you don't like him, thinks you're not doing enough then you're not doing enough.

It doesnt mean he hates you, nor he will sell you, it's up to the player to knuckle down and follow his instructions. His way or the highway. Doesnt matter how talented you are but if you're not playing for the team you will create a weaklink in the system.

When people pointed out player with creative freedom and unshackled from the burden of tracking back they forgot that some other players in the team are instructed to cover their freedom. When ronaldo was given that license the other 9 outfield players agree to give something extra to accomodate him, you can't afford to let your attacking players total flexibility at the highest level. When you dont have the ball these roamers would be out of positions and it'll create more issues.

Just like Henry pointed out, he scores a goal but if he plays his way out of the playbook he still got the stick from pep.

People are so simplistic in thinking all you need to do is release the shackle and we'd somehow will be freescoring every game.

For a team to perform each moves has to be calculated, who will cover who, where should the other players move and many other things that needs coordination. Unless you can dribble your way past 3 defenders and score failing to be in your position and failing to track back while you lose the ball in a distant positions means the teams are left with a man short and better team can punish you.
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Kdb, salah, lukaku, etc
 
GlastonSpur said:
If Spurs were desperate to have Martial playing for us, if potentially only for a short-term period, then perhaps we'd consider a buy-back deal. But we're not and so we wouldn't.

He'd be an excellent addition to the squad for sure and perhaps could even secure a regular starting berth in due course if his performances merited it. But it's not as if he'd currently walk into our starting XI ... because for that we'd have to drop one of the attacking three behind Kane - Son, Alli and Eriksen - and I don't see that we'd currently do that.

Besides, we signed Lucas Moura in January and now also have Lamela back from a long injury lay-off. So the competition for playing time for Martial at Spurs would not be easy.
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Reckon he's better than Son, Lucas and Lamela. He'd be perfect alongside Alli and Eriksen.
 
Hawks2008 said:
For sure, we are defined by our success and trophy haul so they must always be the main aim. But is it really so bad to want us to be more than just results driven? Especially with all the resources at our disposal there isn't any reason why we should have to pick between winning trophies or playing youth/different style of football. Probably a discussion for another thread I suppose.
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Yeah bit off-topic but you're completely right.
 
Hawks2008 said:
For sure, we are defined by our success and trophy haul so they must always be the main aim. But is it really so bad to want us to be more than just results driven? Especially with all the resources at our disposal there isn't any reason why we should have to pick between winning trophies or playing youth/different style of football. Probably a discussion for another thread I suppose.
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Not bad. But at the moment having both is the luxury we can't afford yet.
 
suhaylah said:
Can dybala play on the RW?
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Dybala is not a winger. He plays in the same space as Messi (that is why he is no big part of the national team), always coming inside to make things happen on the ball. They both needed a great Fullback/Wingback like Alves on the pitch to give the width.

So yes, he could start there on paper but just like with Mata, everyone would moan about the right flank being empty.

Still a great footballer and would have a nice chemistry with Pogba, but much more suited to being the second striker in a 3-5-2.
 
RedMilo said:
We completely disagree on this my friend, on your point regarding SAF he did specifically sell Ince, Hughes & Kanchelskis to give youth a chance and it reaped dividends for the club and our history. Back on Martial, when you go to OT, who is the one player that gets you off your feet, for me its Martial everytime, call me a romantic, but that's how I like to see the game played with bravery and passion, a willingness to beat your man. I think his decision making is good in the final third and is quite clinical when he gets a chance. He is not the finished article, not many players are at 22 but the lad was banging them in regularly this season before Sanchez joined and is suffering from lack of game time, through not fault of his own. JM is about short term success, with a functional style of play, this club of ours never has been. Don't lose sight of what makes us great and better than any other club in the world
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Which youth? Class of 92?

Do we have a class of 92 at our ranks at the moment?
 
Sky1981 said:
What makes us great is trophies. The rest are secondary.

Class of 92 would be a footnote without trophies.
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Its not just class of 92, seasoned pro's were moved on in order to allow progression of talented young men. Another example, RVN was moved on despite being a goal machine, this allowed Ronaldo in particular to realise his potential. Short-termism isn't the way to go, the Glazers will tighten the purse-strings soon and where does that leave us, struggling to compete against oil rich owned clubs for the best players in the transfer market. We cant spend hundreds of millions every couple of years, its not sustainable business model. We have got to coach our own talent and give them opportunity to fulfil their potential. Martial has all the attributes to be a top player, but he needs to be coached and given game time.
 
RedMilo said:
Its not just class of 92, seasoned pro's were moved on in order to allow progression of talented young men. Another example, RVN was moved on despite being a goal machine, this allowed Ronaldo in particular to realise his potential. Short-termism isn't the way to go, the Glazers will tighten the purse-strings soon and where does that leave us, struggling to compete against oil rich owned clubs for the best players in the transfer market. We cant spend hundreds of millions every couple of years, its not sustainable business model. We have got to coach our own talent and give them opportunity to fulfil their potential. Martial has all the attributes to be a top player, but he needs to be coached and given game time.
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Ronaldo? The goat contender ronaldo?

Coach our own talent? Remind me again how much we bought martial for 3 years ago? Does all the game time and coaching makes him better than he was 3 years ago?

You had this funny notion that all martial need to become ronaldo was game time and proper coach.
 
Sky1981 said:
Which youth? Class of 92?

Do we have a class of 92 at our ranks at the moment?
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We have lots of potential future stars, TFM, Axel, Martial, Rashford, Gomes, Chong, McTominay, Boonen all looking good to me. You have got to appreciate at what point you say to these type of players, we trust you and want you to stay but at the same time,we are going to spend another £50m or whatever on another player who can play in your position. There has to be a path for these players to fulfil their potential. Its not about class of 92, its about getting players who give a shit about the club and will build something for the long term and you do that by giving them a platform to fulfil their potential.
 
Sky1981 said:
Ronaldo? The goat contender ronaldo?

Coach our own talent? Remind me again how much we bought martial for 3 years ago? Does all the game time and coaching makes him better than he was 3 years ago?

You had this funny notion that all martial need to become ronaldo was game time and proper coach.
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This is getting silly, Martial isn't Ronaldo, Martial is Martial, he has loads of talent for sure. He an united player to me and lots of buys haven't been in recent years. He was scoring regularly before we bought Sanchez now is not getting a sniff, its poor management and one that is seemingly seeing him close to an exit.
 
acnumber9 said:
Are you still talking about Martial? There’s no doubt he has talent but it’s lacking things like this that make me doubt if he’ll ever fulfill his talent. I get what you say about wanting to be excited and watching a player take people on but the disappointing thing with Martial is that he hides too often. Even when Sane was shit over two games against Liverpool he was constantly on the ball and trying to make something happen. Martial isn’t close to that.
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He was our player of the month if I'm right before Sanchez joined, he was getting key goals for us and now he cant buy a game. His demeanour is that of a chap who never smiles, and is a constant joke amongst the players that he never smiles but I go to OT regular and whenever, we need to make something happen, the crowd call for Martial. I cant say I agree he hides at all. Love the guy and at 22 he has a long way to go in the game, but FFS don't give up on him.
 
Dont think we've given up on him, if the reports are correct it is Martial who has given up on us. makes no mistake though, we wont let him go for cheap nor let him go to any domestic rival clubs. So which club do you reckon he'll go to? Bayern wont pay that kind of fee and Juve dont have that kind of money.
 
Keep reading the bastard title as “looking to move to RM”
 
RedMilo said:
He was our player of the month if I'm right before Sanchez joined, he was getting key goals for us and now he cant buy a game. His demeanour is that of a chap who never smiles, and is a constant joke amongst the players that he never smiles but I go to OT regular and whenever, we need to make something happen, the crowd call for Martial. I cant say I agree he hides at all. Love the guy and at 22 he has a long way to go in the game, but FFS don't give up on him.
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Yes he was much improved but do you really believe that he plays with passion? Does he demand the ball when he’s playing? Does he take games by the scruff of the neck the way Giggs or Ronaldo did? He looks like a player happy to coast by to me. Plenty of talent but that’s not enough.
 
RedMilo said:
We have lots of potential future stars, TFM, Axel, Martial, Rashford, Gomes, Chong, McTominay, Boonen all looking good to me. You have got to appreciate at what point you say to these type of players, we trust you and want you to stay but at the same time,we are going to spend another £50m or whatever on another player who can play in your position. There has to be a path for these players to fulfil their potential. Its not about class of 92, its about getting players who give a shit about the club and will build something for the long term and you do that by giving them a platform to fulfil their potential.
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Lol. You think those names are going to make it at united? All of them? We'd be lucky if 2 of them are good enough.

Ps. Martial didnt give enough shit. I'd rather we keep rashford. At least he never sulks
 
cyberman said:
Ah, the old "I can't think of other examples so Ill use etc" trick as if KDB is one of many.
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Whilst also ignoring Lukaku wouldn't have been getting ahead of Costa (or Salah over hazard and wilian) under any manager back then.. Let alone just Mourinho.
 
If Martial does indeed leave then we will be buying an upgrade, someone to replace him who is significantly more developed.

If losing Martial gets us closer to let's say Neymar then that's a brilliant deal all round!
 
acnumber9 said:
Yes he was much improved but do you really believe that he plays with passion? Does he demand the ball when he’s playing? Does he take games by the scruff of the neck the way Giggs or Ronaldo did? He looks like a player happy to coast by to me. Plenty of talent but that’s not enough.
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If we compare every winger we have to Giggs, and every inside forward to Ronaldo... they are beat before they start. We're discussing 2 of the top 10 players to ever play for us. People discuss Martial as though he's doing keeps-ups and stepovers on the halfway line. He actually quite direct, and very potent. At just 22 however, he is still incomplete. If he could improve in just a few areas, we could have one monster of a player on our hands.
 
Decomposing In Paris said:
If we compare every winger we have to Giggs, and every inside forward to Ronaldo... they are beat before they start. We're discussing 2 of the top 10 players to ever play for us. People discuss Martial as though he's doing keeps-ups and stepovers on the halfway line. He actually quite direct, and very potent. At just 22 however, he is still incomplete. If he could improve in just a few areas, we could have one monster of a player on our hands.
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They were just examples of the kind of players who get the Old Trafford crowd on their feet and part of the culture we become used to the RedMilo was alluding to. He doesn’t have to be as good as them but having even close to the same mentality would be nice.

The way people are reacting to the possibility of him leaving would make you think he was comparable to Giggs or Ronaldo.
 
acnumber9 said:
They were just examples of the kind of players who get the Old Trafford crowd on their feet and part of the culture we become used to the RedMilo was alluding to. He doesn’t have to be as good as them but having even close to the same mentality would be nice.

The way people are reacting to the possibility of him leaving would make you think he was comparable to Giggs or Ronaldo.
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By contrast, brilliant as he was, I remember Giggs getting booed by his own fans. Ronaldo left as world player of the year, and I remember people saying that the reason he played up front in the Champions League final was because he didn't work hard enough to play anywhere else. Fan perception doesn't always mean very much.
 
Sky1981 said:
Lol. You think those names are going to make it at united? All of them? We'd be lucky if 2 of them are good enough.

Ps. Martial didnt give enough shit. I'd rather we keep rashford. At least he never sulks
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I would rather we keep both and give them a good run.
 
Decomposing In Paris said:
By contrast, brilliant as he was, I remember Giggs getting booed by his own fans. Ronaldo left as world player of the year, and I remember people saying that the reason he played up front in the Champions League final was because he didn't work hard enough to play anywhere else. Fan perception doesn't always mean very much.
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As the team has got worse I think fans have focused more on individuals. Some of the hero worship is incredible.
 
acnumber9 said:
As the team has got worse I think fans have focused more on individuals. Some of the hero worship is incredible.
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I agree with you on this, but I also think we are a more dangerous team with Martial in the team than not.
 
acnumber9 said:
As the team has got worse I think fans have focused more on individuals. Some of the hero worship is incredible.
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This

Martial was the shining light in a train wreck of a season. His best games were in the FA cup and that was the only trophy we won. What has happened is that because our team has been filled with deadwood for so long, that the few players with potential have been burdened with the responsibility of bringing back the glory days. That is how you get things like 'Martial has to remain at United'. It's based on the idea that we could have a player that can be so good in the future that he will propel us to be the best team in the world and stay for his whole career.

People are trying to force a new class of 92, but have added a foreign player into the mix. The reality is that the vast majority of top players move after 4-5 years to a new club for a change of scenery. The majority of players that stay long term at a club are local players.
 
reddaz71 said:
If Martial does indeed leave then we will be buying an upgrade, someone to replace him who is significantly more developed.

If losing Martial gets us closer to let's say Neymar then that's a brilliant deal all round!
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When have we ever signed a top top player at their absolute peak who doesn't already have any links to United/EPL and a Brazillian worldie when it comes to that? It isn't going to happen.
 
reddaz71 said:
If Martial does indeed leave then we will be buying an upgrade, someone to replace him who is significantly more developed.

If losing Martial gets us closer to let's say Neymar then that's a brilliant deal all round!
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We'll end up likely taking a gamble on Bale
 
RedMilo said:
I agree with you on this, but I also think we are a more dangerous team with Martial in the team than not.
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I would generally agree with that but Martial needs to do more for me. I think the issue with Martial is that often isn’t doing the basics which means when he isn’t scoring or assisting then he isn’t helping the team at all. And for all his skill and pace he doesn’t use it enough.
 
I don't understand how anyone can argue that Martial does not have potential to be world class. He definitely has it. The problem I guess Mourinho has with him is that he doesn't seem to have the attitude to compete.
When Mourinho was asked about his situation he said to the journalists why they don't ask why Lukaku and Matic always play. He has said it multiple times he loves their attitude.
Martial is clearly an introvert and Mourinho doesn't like his attitude. I think he's already out. I'd prefer us to focus on Marcus, who clearly has the work ethic to be a successful footballer at the top level.
 
Sky1981 said:
What makes us great is trophies. The rest are secondary.

Class of 92 would be a footnote without trophies.
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Agreed 100%.
Some people on here don't understand that great teams/sportspeople are great, because they win. If they didn't win, they would never be classified as great sportspeople/teams.
Winning is the most important element in professional sport.
And specifically in the case of football, it is short term wins that are important. As an example, Moyes thought he had 6 years to put together a title winning team. He was planning for the long term, but got fired in 10 months. Why? Because his short term results were poor.
 
POF said:
I think that is true but these days it is more relevant for full backs or wing backs as they are the players who truly provide the width. Having a natural left footer at left back would add another dimension to United's attacks.

Wingers or wide forwards (in United's system at least) really only play wide defensively or as a nominal starting position. They are effectively inside forwards and a right footer on the left and vice versa suits the position better.
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Got to say, I think that’s spot on. It’s this shift of modern football. Valencia kind of sums it up nicely, doesn’t he? Was a more traditional type winger early on with us, but now an excellent right back.
 
borrays said:
Bayern wont pay that kind of fee and Juve dont have that kind of money.
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He‘ll have one year left on his contract in the summer. He won‘t be priced outlandishly and Bayern has a wing (or two) to fill. If he wants to go there and if Bayern wants him the fee would not be an obstacle.
 
Acrobat7 said:
He‘ll have one year left on his contract in the summer. He won‘t be priced outlandishly and Bayern has a wing (or two) to fill. If he wants to go there and if Bayern wants him the fee would not be an obstacle.
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There's the option of a further year which would be activated by the club before we sell.
 
Think he'd struggle to get in any other top side myself, he's played well in fits and starts since joining and i hope he stays as he clearly has ability, but needs to show it more often.
 
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