Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

Sterling Archer said:
I am getting old (school) I know :nervous:

So I'm not intending to say Martial should be on the right. Actually im hoping to see Martial-Lukaku- Sanchez. My issue is that if Alexis is going to stay on the left and Lukaku center, Martial should be working to nail down what remains . Leaving the club because they're is a better player in his favored position is an indictment
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Why should Martial or any player for that matter take over a spot which will limit his skills, what if we end up buying a right winger, how would he able to compete against a right winger when it's a completely new position to him?

Just because a player wants to leave because he prefers a different position doesn't make him weak minded. If we buy a better midfielder than Pogba, he wouldn't train to play in another position at United, he will move to a club where his talents are needed.
 
rotherham_red said:
I think it's a negotiation tactic. Martial loves it here, and we obviously see him as the future. Tony wants reassurances which is fair, and I'm sure we'll give them to him. He'll get the contract and we'll have forgotten all about it by the season starts.
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what assurances can we realistically give him re playing time.
 
poleglass red said:
what assurances can we realistically give him re playing time.
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That he's young and that he has more than enough to his game to play in any one of the attacking positions. Moreover, if he was to move to another team around our level, he'd face much the same level of competition. He loves it at the club and has strong relationships with Rashford, Lingard, Lukaku and Pogba among others.

Much like with Pogba, these stories are being created by his agent to drum up interest and get a stronger negotiating position with the club.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Why should Martial or any player for that matter take over a spot which will limit his skills, what if we end up buying a right winger, how would he able to compete against a right winger when it's a completely new position to him?

Just because a player wants to leave because he prefers a different position doesn't make him weak minded. If we buy a better midfielder than Pogba, he wouldn't train to play in another position at United, he will move to a club where his talents are needed.
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I take issue with players taking their spot on the team for granted. It's core values that were pervasive through our most successful teams. And as for team roles, sometimes players especially young ones do not know best. Scholes was a striker .as was McTominay. More prominently Schweinsteiger was a winger through his early 20s not just teenage years . So at 22, maybe you have an idea what works for you...but it's not the time to be done with learning about other roles positions and football

As an aside I think this is all media bs. And I'm hoping Martial is the kind to fight for his spot and that this is just a bit of contractual bickering .
 
Sterling Archer said:
I typically associate right footed players on the left or vice versa as being limited.

Growing up I was always taught that when playing out wide, you want to keep your body between the defender and the ball while dribbling and the ball as far away as possible from the defender. So in essence, you protect the ball better when you dribble primarily with the foot closest to the side line. So the irony is, opposite footed wingers are somewhat naturally less comfortable...hence the constant cutting in etc etc
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You probably weren't that good then.

The best dribblers dribble as close to the opponent as possible to take them out of the game more effectively once they commit
 
B20 said:
Yo probably weren't that good then.

The best dribblers dribble as close to the opponent as possible to take them out of the game more effectively once they commit
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Do you feel good about yourself for saying something like that? My skill level is irrelevant to what I was saying, which you've not understood at all.:wenger: In fact, I think you're thinking about highlights from YouTube... not what I'm talking about .
 
Sterling Archer said:
Do you feel good about yourself for saying something like that? My skill level is irrelevant to what I was saying, which you've not understood at all.:wenger: In fact, I think you're thinking about highlights from YouTube... not what I'm talking about .
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Either way, your argument, which you decided to put out there from your personal experience, is wrong.

No idea what you mean by youtube highlights.
 
Lentwood said:
Can someone tell me what stand-out contributions Martial delivers week in week out?

I’ve only read a few pages of this thread but we’ve got posters defending Martial by using Messi and Salah as comparable examples. Those two players are on course to score 70 league goals between them! Martial has how many? 4!?

I think some people are slightly confused by the whole “Class of 92” hyperbole. They were a truly exceptional bunch for starters. Secondly, they came in and they started to contribute from the outset. Yes, Beckham in 96 or Giggs in 93 may have been inconsistent in comparison to their peak selves, but they still delivered 8/10 performances most games and racked up the goals, assists and trophies.

The likes of Martial have had chance after chance and the “young player” excuse starts to wear thin when the lad in question is 22 and has played 200 senior games.

I said to a friend 3yrs ago that Martial would go on to be one of the top 10 players in the world. He has all the ability, he has all the attributes - but unfortunately I am going to be wrong because I can clearly see now that he lacks the drive and mentality to reach those heights.

It’s a very rare combination (hence th scarcity of world class players) so it’s nobodys “fault” per se, it’s just the way it is. If we are happy to accept our position as a second Tier club who prioritise top 4 and the odd cup then fine Martial will do nicely. If we want to take on City toe-to-toe for titles and European Trophies we need players who deliver every single week
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I personally think the biggest problem is that it just doesn't feel like he has ever been given a real chance to lock down a starting position. Simply put, I don't think Mourinho has ever fancied him as more than as a squad player. This season he hasn't played two (or more) consecutive 90 minutes once. Contrast that to the show of faith Lukaku got when he was in his slump (something like 4 goals in 20 odd games) and the show of support he gave Fellaini when the fans were on his back.

I don't think he's actively been against Martial in the way he seems to have been for Shaw, but I just think he's quite indifferent about him.
 
B20 said:
Either way, your argument, which you decided to put out there from your personal experience, is wrong.

No idea what you mean by youtube highlights.
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My experience is how football was coached in the early 90s by retired English footballers of lower league level that moved to the US. Take a lesson from @redIndianDevil who can actually articulate his thoughts on that without being insulting.

And just to be clear, your description of how a player should dribble is completely off base. "Dribble with the ball closer to the defender ...so you can beat him better".. What are you smoking mate? That is not what close control is :lol:
 
VP89 said:
Nothing less than what a 22 year old of his consistency should expect at a top club.
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he's 15 months left on his contract, he doesn't hear what he and his agent want, you face the scenario he stays next season and then leaves on a free. As much as your statement is right and should apply to every player at the club regardless of his age. We are in different times with the modern player. He leaves now with his stock not neccessarily low but not exactly maximised to the hilt due to not being a guaranteed starter for Utd, may or may not make the french WC squad with a contract essentially 1 season away from running out. Times have changed
 
B20 said:
You probably weren't that good then.

The best dribblers dribble as close to the opponent as possible to take them out of the game more effectively once they commit
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Harsh. In essence what he is saying is true, but with the obvious caveat that the best dribblers will have quick enough feet to entice their opponent in before moving the ball away.

Obviously the better defenders have more of a chance if the ball is there to be won. It is entirely down to talent and ability though.

Martial in his first season was beating his fullback on both the inside and outside, so he obviously has it.
 
DWelbz19 said:
I personally think the biggest problem is that it just doesn't feel like he has ever been given a real chance to lock down a starting position. Simply put, I don't think Mourinho has ever fancied him as more than as a squad player. This season he hasn't played two (or more) consecutive 90 minutes once. Contrast that to the show of faith Lukaku got when he was in his slump (something like 4 goals in 20 odd games) and the show of support he gave Fellaini when the fans were on his back.

I don't think he's actively been against Martial in the way he seems to have been for Shaw, but I just think he's quite indifferent about him.
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How many times have Rashford, Mata, and Lingard finished consecutive full 90s?
 
suhaylah said:
And you think PSG will give us Neymar in return of Martial?
We badly need two full backs and for me, Valencia is not good enough to be our first choice RB.
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Unlikely as it is, Martial won't go to PSG to warm the bench again. Neymar is the most likely PSG player to move to another club, especially if it means to play under a more experienced manager, for more money, and alongside Pogba.
 
VanHaal'sRedArmy said:
Unlikely as it is, Martial won't go to PSG to warm the bench again. Neymar is the most likely PSG player to move to another club, especially if it means to play under a more experienced manager, for more money, and alongside Pogba.
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We couldn't afford Neymar.
 
JohnnyKills said:
@GlastonSpur says spurs don't do buyback deals. But if they can get a talent like Martial for a couple of years at a low price, maybe they'll break that precedent. They don't pay six-figure wages either but they'll have to change that policy soon as well.

United don't need the money so surely it's better for us in the long run if we have the option of getting Martial back.
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If Spurs were desperate to have Martial playing for us, if potentially only for a short-term period, then perhaps we'd consider a buy-back deal. But we're not and so we wouldn't.

He'd be an excellent addition to the squad for sure and perhaps could even secure a regular starting berth in due course if his performances merited it. But it's not as if he'd currently walk into our starting XI ... because for that we'd have to drop one of the attacking three behind Kane - Son, Alli and Eriksen - and I don't see that we'd currently do that.

Besides, we signed Lucas Moura in January and now also have Lamela back from a long injury lay-off. So the competition for playing time for Martial at Spurs would not be easy.
 
GlastonSpur said:
If Spurs were desperate to have Martial playing for us, if potentially only for a short-term period, then perhaps we'd consider a buy-back deal. But we're not and so we wouldn't.

He'd be an excellent addition to the squad for sure and perhaps could even secure a regular starting berth in due course if his performances merited it. But it's not as if he'd currently walk into our starting XI ... because for that we'd have to drop one of the attacking three behind Kane - Son, Alli and Eriksen - and I don't see that we'd currently do that.

Besides, we signed Lucas Moura in January and now also have Lamela back from a long injury lay-off. So the competition for playing time for Martial at Spurs would not be easy.
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He'd be your cover for Kane when he's injured, something Spurs seriously lack, but as for starting for Spurs on the left, he'd not be a guaranteed starter, but he'd be that extra little piece of quality for your first season in new stadium title push. He'd be that quality without the huge transfer fee if it was a loan deal. Don't see it myself, he needs to go to a club that wants him and guarantees him a start, certainly initially anway
 
poleglass red said:
He'd be your cover for Kane when he's injured, something Spurs seriously lack, but as for starting for Spurs on the left, he'd not be a guaranteed starter, but he'd be that extra little piece of quality for your first season in new stadium title push. He'd be that quality without the huge transfer fee if it was a loan deal. Don't see it myself, he needs to go to a club that wants him and guarantees him a start, certainly initially anway
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Son has done well covering for Kane when needed. No striker wanting starts is going to risk spurs, you are pretty much guaranteed to be back up no matter what.
 
When the best manager in the business, yes.. i consider jose the top manager bracket regardless of how much some of you don't like him, thinks you're not doing enough then you're not doing enough.

It doesnt mean he hates you, nor he will sell you, it's up to the player to knuckle down and follow his instructions. His way or the highway. Doesnt matter how talented you are but if you're not playing for the team you will create a weaklink in the system.

When people pointed out player with creative freedom and unshackled from the burden of tracking back they forgot that some other players in the team are instructed to cover their freedom. When ronaldo was given that license the other 9 outfield players agree to give something extra to accomodate him, you can't afford to let your attacking players total flexibility at the highest level. When you dont have the ball these roamers would be out of positions and it'll create more issues.

Just like Henry pointed out, he scores a goal but if he plays his way out of the playbook he still got the stick from pep.

People are so simplistic in thinking all you need to do is release the shackle and we'd somehow will be freescoring every game.

For a team to perform each moves has to be calculated, who will cover who, where should the other players move and many other things that needs coordination. Unless you can dribble your way past 3 defenders and score failing to be in your position and failing to track back while you lose the ball in a distant positions means the teams are left with a man short and better team can punish you.
 
Sterling Archer said:
I take issue with players taking their spot on the team for granted. It's core values that were pervasive through our most successful teams. And as for team roles, sometimes players especially young ones do not know best. Scholes was a striker .as was McTominay. More prominently Schweinsteiger was a winger through his early 20s not just teenage years . So at 22, maybe you have an idea what works for you...but it's not the time to be done with learning about other roles positions and football

As an aside I think this is all media bs. And I'm hoping Martial is the kind to fight for his spot and that this is just a bit of contractual bickering .
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When has he taken his spot for granted? He rightfully fought for the place with Rashford, he didn't moan because Rashford played LW as we bought Lukaku. Mourinho then goes and buys Sanchez, yes Sanchez is currently a better player but look at the number of opportunities Sanchez got to prove himself, if Martial played like Sanchez in the 2-3 City match, he would have subbed off in the half time break but Sanchez got the manager's backing.

He cannot keep on fighting for his place, especially since the manager never really trusts him. He is right in seeking a move and that doesn't mean he doesn't have the "fight" or "mentality" or whatever management malarkey most people here come up with to criticize Martial.
 
Cant blame the lad at all. Was doing well prior to us signing Sanchez. Would have preferred to see Sanchez on the right with Martial continuing on the left. fantastic player with un real potential. Will be a major loss but good luck Tony
 
Sky1981 said:
When the best manager in the business, yes.. i consider jose the top manager bracket regardless of how much some of you don't like him, thinks you're not doing enough then you're not doing enough.

It doesnt mean he hates you, nor he will sell you, it's up to the player to knuckle down and follow his instructions. His way or the highway. Doesnt matter how talented you are but if you're not playing for the team you will create a weaklink in the system.

When people pointed out player with creative freedom and unshackled from the burden of tracking back they forgot that some other players in the team are instructed to cover their freedom. When ronaldo was given that license the other 9 outfield players agree to give something extra to accomodate him, you can't afford to let your attacking players total flexibility at the highest level. When you dont have the ball these roamers would be out of positions and it'll create more issues.

Just like Henry pointed out, he scores a goal but if he plays his way out of the playbook he still got the stick from pep.

People are so simplistic in thinking all you need to do is release the shackle and we'd somehow will be freescoring every game.

For a team to perform each moves has to be calculated, who will cover who, where should the other players move and many other things that needs coordination. Unless you can dribble your way past 3 defenders and score failing to be in your position and failing to track back while you lose the ball in a distant positions means the teams are left with a man short and better team can punish you.
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Firstly, I do not think Jose is the best manager out there and he has not been even the best manager in PL since taking charge of Utd. Secondly, do you mean that Martial wants to be given a free role and never puts in a shift defensively?
 
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I've just watched a video just uploaded on the club youtube channel and the players had to describe Martial. Lukaku referred him as 'French, never happy' and the players immediately knew who it was

You would wonder why ;)
 
SATA said:
I've just watched a video just uploaded on the club youtube channel and the players had to describe Martial. Lukaku referred him as 'French, never happy' and the players immediately knew who it was

You would wonder why ;)
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Well we only have two French players in our squad and Pogba's a constantly happy extrovert so simple enough.
 
SATA said:
I've just watched a video just uploaded on the club youtube channel and the players had to describe Martial. Lukaku referred him as 'French, never happy' and the players immediately knew who it was

You would wonder why ;)
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The constant joke is he never smiles. Jones even sarcastically told him to smile during a goal celebration earlier this season.

tumblr_oupth6iZBw1tf8a5ao1_400.gif
 
Vato said:
Is he dreaming of Madrid yet?
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I don‘t believe he would be a great fit for Real. You need a better version of Benzema, a skilled center forward with great off-the-ball-movement (Firmino*cough*), not a goalscoring winger. He is not better than Vazquez this season and he is not as talented as Asensio or Isco.
 
If he wants out (or Jose wants him out) - how do people feel about a potential Dybala / Martial swap (with some cash either way).
 
Member 5225 said:
If he wants out (or Jose wants him out) - how do people feel about a potential Dybala / Martial swap (with some cash either way).
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I'd be happy with that, but I would have concerns with fitting both him and Pogba in the same team with Sanchez because I doubt we're going to go to 3 at the back.
 
Member 5225 said:
If he wants out (or Jose wants him out) - how do people feel about a potential Dybala / Martial swap (with some cash either way).
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I'd snap your hand off for that. It's obvious we are moving towards a three for Pogba, which means Lingard and Sanchez playing off Lukaku as Shadow strikers. Replace Dybala with Lingard and you have a tasty team.
 
VanHaal'sRedArmy said:
Unlikely as it is, Martial won't go to PSG to warm the bench again. Neymar is the most likely PSG player to move to another club, especially if it means to play under a more experienced manager, for more money, and alongside Pogba.
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Neymar is the least likely player to move, don't believe the BS coming out of Madrid-based press. The most likely to go is Kurzawa (who's been linked to United). They're also going to upgrade their goalkeeper and strengthen their midfield. I can't see Martial going to PSG though, they don't really need him, he needs to go to another team that will need him week-in, week-out.
 
Sterling Archer said:
I typically associate right footed players on the left or vice versa as being limited.

Growing up I was always taught that when playing out wide, you want to keep your body between the defender and the ball while dribbling and the ball as far away as possible from the defender. So in essence, you protect the ball better when you dribble primarily with the foot closest to the side line. So the irony is, opposite footed wingers are somewhat naturally less comfortable...hence the constant cutting in etc etc
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I think that is true but these days it is more relevant for full backs or wing backs as they are the players who truly provide the width. Having a natural left footer at left back would add another dimension to United's attacks.

Wingers or wide forwards (in United's system at least) really only play wide defensively or as a nominal starting position. They are effectively inside forwards and a right footer on the left and vice versa suits the position better.
 
Sayros said:
Neymar is the least likely player to move, don't believe the BS coming out of Madrid-based press. The most likely to go is Kurzawa (who's been linked to United). They're also going to upgrade their goalkeeper and strengthen their midfield. I can't see Martial going to PSG though, they don't really need him, he needs to go to another team that will need him week-in, week-out.
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I think Arsenal/Atletico/Bayern will be ideal for him. Maybe we can do some kind of Alaba/Martial swap deal.
 
He has been putting up decent numbers this season, but a bit disappointed with the ending of this season. I love him. Wish he'd got to played more as a striker or with more attacking freedom on the flank but i can't say he has proved himself worthy of such a role. He only needs time imo, and thats fine but this is really gonna break my heart for a bit if it happens
 
Sky1981 said:
All managers are about short term success. Nobody thinks about 5 or 10 years from now. Real world football isnt some fm game where we hoarde wonderkids.

Before you pointed out at saf it was different, saf didnt specifically sacrifices his star players and play his youth academies over and over again until they become good, it's when they're ready that they got some game time.

What's the point of nourishing star players just for a 50/50 chance they can fulfil their potential when you have a better ready made affordable player right here and right now.

Does saf plays welbeck to fulfil his potential and not buying rvp?

Besides some perspective has to be applied on the kdb, salah, and lukaku, they're really not ready to become jose main man back then. It takes lukaku a good few years at everton to reach his current level. Saying jose ignored them is absurd
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We completely disagree on this my friend, on your point regarding SAF he did specifically sell Ince, Hughes & Kanchelskis to give youth a chance and it reaped dividends for the club and our history. Back on Martial, when you go to OT, who is the one player that gets you off your feet, for me its Martial everytime, call me a romantic, but that's how I like to see the game played with bravery and passion, a willingness to beat your man. I think his decision making is good in the final third and is quite clinical when he gets a chance. He is not the finished article, not many players are at 22 but the lad was banging them in regularly this season before Sanchez joined and is suffering from lack of game time, through not fault of his own. JM is about short term success, with a functional style of play, this club of ours never has been. Don't lose sight of what makes us great and better than any other club in the world
 
RedMilo said:
We completely disagree on this my friend, on your point regarding SAF he did specifically sell Ince, Hughes & Kanchelskis to give youth a chance and it reaped dividends for the club and our history. Back on Martial, when you go to OT, who is the one player that gets you off your feet, for me its Martial everytime, call me a romantic, but that's how I like to see the game played with bravery and passion, a willingness to beat your man. I think his decision making is good in the final third and is quite clinical when he gets a chance. He is not the finished article, not many players are at 22 but the lad was banging them in regularly this season before Sanchez joined and is suffering from lack of game time, through not fault of his own. JM is about short term success, with a functional style of play, this club of ours never has been. Don't lose sight of what makes us great and better than any other club in the world
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What makes us great is trophies. The rest are secondary.

Class of 92 would be a footnote without trophies.
 
RedMilo said:
with bravery and passio
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Are you still talking about Martial? There’s no doubt he has talent but it’s lacking things like this that make me doubt if he’ll ever fulfill his talent. I get what you say about wanting to be excited and watching a player take people on but the disappointing thing with Martial is that he hides too often. Even when Sane was shit over two games against Liverpool he was constantly on the ball and trying to make something happen. Martial isn’t close to that.
 
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