Thought this thread more apt for it, thought I’d deleted other post. Just retried!
Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay
- Thread starter Hellboy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Nail on the head. That's the thing when people on here say 'potential' they usually mean the absence of obvious physical or technical weaknesses and there's an assumption that experience will raise the level and solve all the football brian issues. Yet there's a huge pile of such once hyped players who don't make it for a reason.
Football just doesn't work like that, the mental side of the game is as likely to indicate future world class players as someone who can do some trickery. Even though it doesn't look as good on a highlights reel.
He's not underrated, he's seen for what he is. A decent player but one who consistently fails to trouble the best defences.
He's played every single big game this season. City (2), Chelsea (2), Arsenal, Spurs (2),Liverpool (2) and Sevilla (2). He's managed the grand total of two goals in those games.
That's why people get frustrated that he plays every game and appears to be our sole striking option.
He’s scored 25 goals in the last 3 years (including this year) and prior to that has scored a minimum of 16 goals out of 33 appearances which is still better than 1 in 2 return rate.
Based on that, and the fact that he’s not even in his prime yet, there’s nothing to suggest that he won’t continue this trend, or improve upon it.
Look at Martial’s statistics and all you’ll find is inconsistency which you can’t base any real analytics for expected future performance on.
Good post, I largely agree, technical strikers can have the upper hand and versatility to score all kinds of goals.
Personally, I don’t think Martial is the type of striker that a team will build around, unless they have two strikers. The left wing suits him perfectly, but right now his mentality is lacking too.
I think about games like Crystal Palace where Lukaku roared the team back to victory with goals, or City where Sanchez ran the entire pitch and was integral to our comeback. Or even just the eagerness to run into the box in dangerous positions when you’re off the ball. Martial does it in bursts, but you can’t depend on him to be the one to initiate it.
The way I look at it, Lukaku is a better option at the striker position than Martial, whom I don't rate that well at that position. Further, if we only look at current performance levels Lukaku > Martial. But definitely Martial has potential to be a better footballer.
Looking at number of goals scored is such a flawed way when you consider that he provided the two headers to unlock Liverpool's defence with the Rashford goals. He is also generally quite busy and it can't be easy playing against two quality CBs when rest of the team is rather disconnected and supply of chances is scant.
It makes sense because if the club intents to put in a buy back they sell the player for cheaper than their market value
My guess is it's based on the fact he's now done it 3 years in a row.
The people on here arguing martial is or ever will be a better striker than lukaku 
What's the point in doing that though? He's barely settled on the left. We want him to feel at home with consistency in his position so we can get the best out of him immediately. He's 29 there's no point fecking around with his positioning for us. Keep him where he best serves and if Martial wants more playing time then he can fight for it in training or go.
Mourinho:
2014: Lukaku
2015: Kevin De Bruyne
2016: Salah
2018: Martial
2014: Lukaku
2015: Kevin De Bruyne
2016: Salah
2018: Martial
Oh hell no!??
I've already explained why. If he can play well on the right, then providing both Martial and Rashford with adequete game time will become much less of a problem. Playing him on the right for a match won't kill him, especially if he'll just get moved back to the left if it doesn't work out.
Missed one!
You Mourinho haters really are something else.. You were here arguing all the time that Lukaku would never sign for Mourinho again, that he hates him bla bla. Yet here he is becoming Mourinhos most trusted player, same with Matic.
What have De Bruyne won so far? A league cup, Salah? Nothing. Lukaku? Nothing. The team Mourinho built at Chelsea has won 2 PL Titles in the last 4 years.
Chelsea's problem has nothing to do with either Salah, Lukaku, De Bruyne they are with Abramovich, the board and getting rid of Costa, Matic and replacing them with shite.
The only positive thing about all of this is that the Martial FC fanclub would go with him, it's clear that their loyalty is more with the player then with the club.
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Sanchez did great vs City but will turn 30 in 8 months. Would be a mistake to sell Martial because of him. Martial is right to seek another opportunity for his career.
He's not the first manager in history to part ways with some good players...
2001: Stam
2003: Beckham
2004: Forlan
2008: Pique
2009: Ronaldo
2009: Tevez
2012: Pogba
We don't want to sell Martial and have offered him a 5 year deal to keep him here into his late 20s. He's rejected it and wants to leave us.
Who cares? Ronaldo is 33. Age is not relevant, class is.
If Mourinho broke our transfer record for Veron like Fergie did at that time and couldn't get the best out of him and then sold him to Chelsea he would of been absolutely crucified in this day and age.
Totally agree.
I remember saying in the Sanchez transfer thread, that if he’s signed to play on the right, I’m all in, but if he’s signed to play on the left, thus limiting Rasford and Martial’s playing time, I’d rather want us not to sign him.
I still think Martial should show some fighting spirit though, and prove he’s good enough for this team instead of sulking, if reports are true.
With Sanchez and Rashford around he doesn't have hopes to be a regular starter next season. And he turns 23 then. If he is a bit part player at 23-24, he will fear for his career.
It's interesting to read some of the comments. People are defending a player based on him being world class in the future but the same want instant results from the team and judge Jose based on the now. As a manager obviously Jose would use players in the starting lineup which will give him the best possible option to win a game. Nothing against Martial, but he needs to work harder on his overall game to be considered a starter.
Luke Shaw has bags of potential compared to young, but young starts because he works hard (even at 32).
Luke Shaw has bags of potential compared to young, but young starts because he works hard (even at 32).
Except Sanchez is nothing like Ronaldo. Silly comparison.
This is too harsh. Martial like any our player has his "fanclub" among supporters. Pogba has it. Mourinho has it. Shaw has it, ffs. We like that player , (maybe we overrate him) and it is normal that we don't want him to leave. But to say that about loyalty is just over the top.
And btw i can't leave with martial because i am a member of jose fanclub too. But if he leaves too- than i will go
.There's only a limited amount we can do here, short of selling Sanchez/Rashford immediately (which I presume you're not advocating?)
So hes wants assurances of more game time, not to play every week. I would say that is a reasonable request before committing his long term future.
Would any manager give assurances of that?
Wouldn’t they all say show you deserve it in training, and when you get the chance make it impossible to drop you?
(Or something like that)
Buying club will try to avoid it, but it can be done (unless the buying club is Barcelona, Real, Bayern or PSG). Buy-back fee is set higher, so it means reasonable profit in such scenario. It's mostly time limited (e.g. 2 years to activate, after which you can't use it anymore). If you have a lot of clubs interested, go to the one which would accept such a deal. You can sell a little below market value to the club that's interested, etc...
As for Martial, rumours are that he is interested mostly in playing time, so maybe he won't mind it. Also, 2 years remaining on the current contract is not a bad bargaining chip.
This is all rumours at this phase, he may end up signing a new deal, but if things do go the other way, we should try it imo. We did it with Depay and Januzaj in the end, both being less talented.
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I'd rather loan him if he wants to move because he could return the following summer and find Mourinho is not at the club anymore.
Obviously in that case Utd would have not met expectations but I don't want to lose such a special talent because a manager with not a long term track record is staking his success on an older signing.
Obviously in that case Utd would have not met expectations but I don't want to lose such a special talent because a manager with not a long term track record is staking his success on an older signing.
It'd be risky if he went, he could continue to be a player who looks disinterested, and flatters to deceive, or he could become a world beater, but I can see why we wouldn't guarantee him anything just now, he just doesn't do enough.
It happens all the time. Players want to know they are in the managers plans and if the manager rates them. Its never a guarantee of playing but a reassurance of being a valued member, which is fair given the signing we have made in LW.
Its similar to conversations Pereira would have had in the summer, and why he would have chosen to go on loan.
Now I didn't say Jose should do anything, the post you quoted was me saying him seeking assurances about more playing time in future is a fair one.
Being offered a five year contract pretty much do just this, no?
I’m pretty sure Mourinho rates him, but can’t promise him more playing time right now. Again, if reports are true.
Martial should be the first to know that he’s been too inconsistent to demand starting every game, and should do something about it. If he feels he need to go, then fine, but I would’ve preferred to see him stay and fight.
Doubt it. Ronaldo FC is still here.
Out of interest, how do you decide what is fact and what isn't?
No, not always. Club can value you (monetary wise) but the manager may not see you playing much.
Again if you read my post I specifically was speaking about not asking to start every game.
Also he has stayed and fought plenty. Both when he was removed as a possibly CF and also at the start of this season when he was behind Rashford in the pecking order.
Now again if you read my post I didn't say Jose should do anything, only to note that Martial seeking assurances at this moment before he commits his long term future seems like a sensible thing (which is not demanding to start every game)
You're not going to make a long term decision on where he's best served from one match. Would rather see Martial tested there - but in fairness the guys playing from the right in Mata/Lingard have been great in the recent past.
Hasn't Sanchez played a large majority of his career on the right? Surely it would make more sense for him to be tried there
Lingard has been great in the 10, not sure about the RW to be honest
Impossible for us to tell from the outside. This entire thread is predicated on the notion that the RMC piece is accurate. If it isn't, then we may well have nothing to worry about.
Obviously. What you'd do is play him there and if he plays well, play him there again in the following match and so on until you think you've got a good enough sample size. If he doesn't play well and it's because of an obvious issue based on his playstyle, move him back to the left. If it's because of external, contributing factors that can easily be addressed, fix them and try him there again.
@Cassidy Yeah, for some reason some are acting as if he's never played there. There are some quotes from Wenger where he states that he's actually better on the right, funnily enough.
Yes, he has.
RW- 124/47/40
LW- 118/47/29
CF- 43/30/13
(Matches/goals/assists)
Didn’t do too bad on the right either according to stats.
This is why I really do not understand WTF is going on here. Logic surely dictates you play the experienced RW in the RW rather than the player who has never shown any indication of being able to do well there.
If you look at it from Martial's side, why wouldn't he look to leave? He'll play half the games next season and probably as long as Mourinho is here and quite possibly some of those out of the positions he appears to prefer to play. The reasons for it have been done to death but his two seasons under the current manager have been no better than okay. I don't think it would be that surprising if Mourinho decided that he wanted to move on with players he can trust and get good money for Martial while he could.
Before people pile in, I like him and hope he stays and turns it around. I don't believe that'll happen, though.
Before people pile in, I like him and hope he stays and turns it around. I don't believe that'll happen, though.