If he cant get games on merit against mata rashford and sanchez than he's not a lost.
How can you say losing him is a big lost if he's 3rd in the pecking order
Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay
- Thread starter Hellboy
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
If he cant get games on merit against mata rashford and sanchez than he's not a lost.
How can you say losing him is a big lost if he's 3rd in the pecking order
Good post.
The big problem is that Lukaku plays every game. Personally I think Martial has miles more potential than Lukaku, and offers far more threat against a good team, but that's the manager we have. If we end up sacrificing Martial for Lukaku, a limited player who wouldn't start for any other top side, that's madness, but we've made our bed with Mourinho.
Best-case scenario is that we insert a buy-back in Martial's transfer agreement and can buy him back in a couple of years when Mourinho walks. Or we use the remaining six games of the season to give him a run in the side and stop this nonsense.
What an absurd post, Martial has at no point for club or country shown he has the potential to be a better striker than Lukaku who has proven himself across the board.
Some of you lot really do put too much value on fancy footwork. Martial is limited in many ways too.
Exactly.
Let’s focus on Mata for a minute. The one player Jose wanted to sell supposedly before he even arrived. The one that was on his way out when Mikhi signed. Yet he has won myriad starts and earned a contract extension. You’re telling me hard work and attitude doesn’t pay off?
Because i am his fanboy
. I just think that he is better than any our attacker. Maybe sanchez is better now but in two years he will be better. Again, it is my opinion.Potential-wise, I think he does. If he manages to nail his off-the-ball movement (one of the main things Lukaku has over him), there's every chance he'll become a very good striker. His technique is a level above Lukaku and he's physically at a good level too.
How many games have you seen Martial at CF to come up with this?
I mean, Lukaku is just 2 years old than Martial yet he has 100 Premier League goals & 35 PL assists ffs.
I really really like Martial, but some of the opinions in this thread are pure fantasy and actually end up frustrating me. There's tonnes of potential in Martial, but these "I think" opinions are beyond silly.
It’s not unusual for me to expect him to have cemented his place in the starting 11 by now, all I see is a player that has made next to no improvement since his debut for us. He seems to have a lazy attitude too which I don’t like.
quite frankly if he doesn’t want to stay and fight for his place then I have no issue with moving him on Especially if it can land us a much better player like Dybala or verratti.
If we are true to ourselves, he had a very good League and Cup campaign for a mid table premier club. It’s not world beater stuff. I may get lambasted for this but Lukaku has had better seasons with Everton and W Brom.
Which is why I'm talking in terms of potential. Compare their individual qualities rather than stats.
A buy back makes terrible sense to the buying party. Doubt you can dictate terms to a player thats not even being played.
I would have been nicer but you sure hit the right points. For the striker role, I will take Romelu over Martial everyday of the week. The Belgian is massively underrated in here. I guess his lack of fancy footwork will always plague him.
5th (missing out on 4th through GD) is mid table?
Bit extreme perhaps but what was it 4, 7, 5, 6?
Compare their individual qualities rather than real World evidence? Really?
If "individual qualities" were all it took, Quaresma would have spent the past decade as one of the best players in the World.
Lukaku is quicker, stronger, hungrier and has already developed a world class knack for scoring. Potential means little unless you apply yourself. From every indication, Lukaku is devoted to improving himself as a striker. Credit to him because at the moment, he is clearly one of the best strikers in world football. I need to see more from Martial. So far, he looks inconsistent and lacking in drive for me.
Some are acting as if it's a video game where all that matters is doing fancy tricks and skills, along with goals and assists. It's all the stuff on the ball despite most of the game being off the ball.
You actually have some in here making it out that working hard on the pitch is actually a negative thing! It makes you a 'donkey' apparently. I grew up watching players more talented that Martial work twice as hard as him (ie Beckham).
The fact of the matter is, if you want to be a top team every player has to put a shift in. You have to press with intensity, make off the ball runs 100 times even if you don't get the ball once, track back to help your teammates, run forward to support your striker.
Martial is a nobody in the history of football; he isn't even the most talented youngster in the France team. You don't get to slack on the field unless you are GOAT level as a footballer. His footballing fundamentals are severely lacking and is why players like Lingard, Sanchez and Lukaku are favoured over him; they understand the game far better than him despite not being able to do the things he can do with the ball.
It can easily be argued Lukaku has shown more growth in one season with us than Martial has in what three seasons? I rate Martial highly, but potential means very little if you don't reach it.
Martial hasn't been given much of a chance at CF for good comparisons with Lukaku at the same age to be made. Comparing his stats as a LW to Lukaku's as a CF is pointless.
Quaresma's mentality is what stopped him from becoming as good as people expected. I wouldn't say he and Martial are similar in that aspect. Either way, what became of Quaresma is irrelevant to Martial's potential. My point isn't that he's a sure thing, it's that if he can make full use of his talent, he can be a top striker.
Because i am his fanboy
Yeah fair enough, the thing with potential is that they can go both ways
It's the fear that he realises his potential elsewhere and really turns into a world-beater. At which point we'd feel like total mugs for letting him go.
FWIW I don't think Jose is the coach to help him realise that potential. Martial needs a lot of coaching to bring his game to the next level, and attacking coaching just isn't something Jose is strong at or focuses on.
Lukaku will score 25+ goals every season, and you choose to call him "limited", why? Because Martial is better at doing tricks and flicks?
I love Martial and want him to stay, but give your head a wobble with posts like this.
7, 4, 5, 6. Only the Moyes season, at a stretch, would be considered mid-table.
I don't doubt that he's physically more impressive, but that isn't all being a striker is about. Him being devoted to improving himself as a striker is helped by the fact that he's been able to gain experience playing there since he was a teen. I can bet that if, somewhere along his line of development (e.g. his time at West Brom and first two seasons at Everton), he had to play on the wings for three years in a row and model his game around being a winger, he wouldn't have reached the level he's at right now.
That's my thinking too, but reading through the thread it's making me nervous. Caf hype can have that affect on me tho....
Lukaku will score 25+ goals every season, and you choose to call him "limited", why? Because Martial is better at doing tricks and flicks?
I love Martial and want him to stay, but give your head a wobble with posts like this.
I think Lukaku lacks finesse on the ball, he's a bit clumsy and his control lets him down sometimes. He makes up for this lack through his pace and physicality, but it does mean that he'll have problems with opponents who can match him physically.
Martial lacks intensity and off-the-ball movement, which IMO is easier to coach / enforce? Could be wrong. He has good finishing skills, good pace, and decent physicality, which, combined with his superior technique, gives him a higher ceiling than Lukaku I would think.
And Mourinho even bought Quaresma for Inter. If Martial were good enough, he'd be playing. Jose knows top talent when he sees it.
When Lukaku was 22, he was flirting with being the top goal scorer in the EPL (alongside Kane).
Martial is not a prolific goal scorer, though he can dribble.
But dribbling does not win you matches...goals do.
I understand that you are fan of Martial, but he is not currently as good as you think.
Lacking finesse and being limited are too different things. Lukaku is a complete striker, and scored a ton of goals which is his job.
It’s not his job to be tricky with the ball, sure it would be nice to have, but it doesn’t limit his ability.
Besides, potential is just that. Ask any body who watched our academy and Ravel Morrison had more potential than Pogba, but what has he done with it?
Lukaku will score 25+ goals every season, and you choose to call him "limited", why? Because Martial is better at doing tricks and flicks?
I love Martial and want him to stay, but give your head a wobble with posts like this.
The funniest part is that it is completely the opposite of reality.
Martial is a massively limited player; 90% of his game is dribbling and end product. It's like all he does in training is shooting and dribbling practice.
If you want a player to make a good youtube compilation, Martial is your guy. If you want a player to run the team or elevate the attack to a higher level you'll want someone else.
Looking at a few examples:
Martial 2017/18 PL : 0.93 G/A per 90 mins
Hazard 2014/15 PL : 0.61 G/A per 90 mins
Mahrez 2015/16 PL : 0.83 G/A per 90 mins
Hazard 2016/17 PL : 0.63 G/A per 90 mins
According to some on here, because Martial has better goals + assists stats he's a 'better' wide attacker than Hazard and Mahrez in those seasons. The reality is that Hazard and Mahrez in their title winning seasons added a whole new dimension to their team. Both Hazard and Mahrez were fantastic playmakers, while also being very good at stretching the pitch by going wide, while also having good end product.
Indeed.
If he feels that Martial can help him win games (and more importantly, trophies), then he'll play him.
In the MCFC game, when Pogba was allegedly flirting with (joining) MCFC, Jose picked him to be in our midfield. He could've benched him, but because he wanted to win the match, he picked Pogba.
Was he 22 in the 15/16 season? I'll go off that:
In the prem, he had 18+7 goals and assists in 3174 minutes that season. That's a goal or assist every 127 minutes. This season, at 22, Martial has 9+5 goals and assists in 1344 minutes. That's a goal or assist every 96, from the left wing mainly. That's without Martial being the main man, as Lukaku was at Everton. During Martial's debut, at 19, he managed 11+4 goals and assists in 2632 minutes. That's a goal or assist every 175 minutes from the wing.
Martial's been in better teams, but there isn't a massive difference in output.
Oh yeah he’s massively inconsistent.
People are forgetting that he was dropped for most of last season because of his inconsistent form. It looked like he picked up form before Sanchez came unfortunately, but no player is bigger than the club.
I don’t think he has the mentality for us to build our attack around right now.
When he’s on song he can be unstoppable, but if he’s not in the mood, then nothing he does comes off.
I believe he will grow and have more of an impact as time goes on, but understandably he wants to play more regularly now.
So RMC say he will reject contract offer. He’s unhappy re playing time.
IF this is true, how do you guys have so much time for him. Always seems to have a need to be wrapped in cotton wool. Even with all the talent in the world, this childish mental attitude (re his off-field problems, sulking etc) is hindering him IMHO.
Edit
United have offered Anthony Martial a five-year contract but he is refusing to sign it until he is told he will play more often. #mufc [Times]
Martial has rejected a new 5 year contract & wants to leave United due to lack of playing time. [rmc]
IF this is true, how do you guys have so much time for him. Always seems to have a need to be wrapped in cotton wool. Even with all the talent in the world, this childish mental attitude (re his off-field problems, sulking etc) is hindering him IMHO.
Edit
United have offered Anthony Martial a five-year contract but he is refusing to sign it until he is told he will play more often. #mufc [Times]
Martial has rejected a new 5 year contract & wants to leave United due to lack of playing time. [rmc]
Ex-fecking-actly!
I think you need to copy and paste that into more threads. Two isn't enough IMO.
How is it absurd? Surely martial has shown potential with all the goals he's scored? Plus he's had zero chances up front this season, apart from at Everton - where he scored and we played some of our best football of the season.
Lukaku has also failed on multiple occasions against top sides. How has he proven himself across the board? There are still huge question marks against him.
But who needs facts and reality when you can release your real-world frustrations with sweeping, aggressive posts on an internet forum eh?
Sorry I don't know if I'm expressing myself properly, but what I meant is that Lukaku is limited in his technical ability, which especially shows in his inconsistent (though improving) ball control, and which IMO makes it less likely that he'll become a truly complete, elite striker. It's not his job to be tricky with the ball, but having that in his arsenal would mean he has more options to beat different kinds of opponents, for example.
Martial on the other hand has better technical ability, which IMO means that, if both realised their full potential, Martial would be the superior striker. But as your second point says, potential is just potential. I think there's just the fear that he goes on to become a world-beater for someone else.
Also agree with your other post that Martial now is a moments player - unstoppable at times, capable of producing decisive moments, but too often just allowing the majority of the game to pass him by. He needs a coach to take his game to the next level, and I don't know if Jose is the one to do it.
And this prediction is based on...
Lukaku will score 25+ goals every season,