Fair enough and not much in it for me so agree mostly. But until our top 4 and EL came to an end I was all for him playing on the right although with the summer window opening I expect or hope to see the right side attack addressed or we will still be served up mechanical performances which leave us looking a bit lost and bereft of ideas and creativity.
Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Fair enough and not much in it for me so agree mostly. But until our top 4 and EL came to an end I was all for him playing on the right although with the summer window opening I expect or hope to see the right side attack addressed or we will still be served up mechanical performances which leave us looking a bit lost and bereft of ideas and creativity.
Can only speak from what we've seen in 2 games he had there (too small sample). But, as things now stand, he doesn't even get picked on the right after Newcastle game. So, maybe he would play there and try to adapt, but Jose doesn't fancy it. Or vice versa.
No matter what, he certainly doesn't look like an answer to the right wing in the long run, though. He looks far more comfortable on the other side which is understandable considering his skillset. Some wingers will have trouble switching the side, some won't, even world-class ones.
Also, not sure that Mourinho would have much patience and time waiting for him to adopt there when Martial didn't have Jose's full confidence playing in his natural position.
He can play as the left winger in a 442, as a left sided attacker in 4/3/3 or 4231 (his preferred position) or as a centre forward.
Ronaldo could play on both flanks but he was never used as CF. I don’t think his development would have gone well had we played him there just for the sake of game time. Of course, I still remember Fletcher/Solskajer playing ahead of him at times but his game time and position was never as seriously impeded as Martial’s right now with Sánchez/Lukaku ahead and Rashford competing, it also helped that Giggs was injured quite a fair bit during his first couple of years so that’s another obstacle out of the way.
Do I hope that Martial would stay and fight and become a club legend? Yes. But put yourself in his shoes and the situation looks pretty bleak with his best two positions occupied by untouchables, plus we as a team/club doesn’t seem to be winning PL/CL anytime soon, so there’s very little incentive to stay. Rashford would stick it out for a while due to his Mancunian roots but a couple of years down the line and if his situation doesn’t improve, he will do a Welbeck as well.
In Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial, Lingard, and Rashford we have 5 forwards for 3 positions. (I haven't included Mata as his contribution has mostly been as a midfielder this season, and he's no more a forward than Pogba)
What other club our size would be expected to go into the season with fewer options?
Two of the players are homegrown, and apart from Sanchez, they are all still developing.
Mourinho has said that he's not looking to sign another forward player in the summer.
It's up to Rashford and Martial to perform so well that they make the LF/CF position their own... if they can't displace Sanchez or Lukaku, they will either need to learn to play on the right (I know... development, how horrible) or become an impact sub.
We are probably losing Carrick, Fellaini, Darmian, Blind, Borthwick-Jackson, Shaw... and players like Jones, Smalling, Rojo etc must have question marks by their names. Our focus is going to be on defence and midfield this summer.
The fact that Martial has 2 years left on his contract probably just means that he wants to be in a better negotiating position in a years' time. He wants more money and more playing time... big surprise.
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I'd like to see what Martial could do on the right if we had 3 in midfield. Take away his extra defensive responsibilities and tell him to tear the opposition a new one on that side... a little confidence would go a long way.
What other club our size would be expected to go into the season with fewer options?
Two of the players are homegrown, and apart from Sanchez, they are all still developing.
Mourinho has said that he's not looking to sign another forward player in the summer.
It's up to Rashford and Martial to perform so well that they make the LF/CF position their own... if they can't displace Sanchez or Lukaku, they will either need to learn to play on the right (I know... development, how horrible) or become an impact sub.
We are probably losing Carrick, Fellaini, Darmian, Blind, Borthwick-Jackson, Shaw... and players like Jones, Smalling, Rojo etc must have question marks by their names. Our focus is going to be on defence and midfield this summer.
The fact that Martial has 2 years left on his contract probably just means that he wants to be in a better negotiating position in a years' time. He wants more money and more playing time... big surprise.
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I'd like to see what Martial could do on the right if we had 3 in midfield. Take away his extra defensive responsibilities and tell him to tear the opposition a new one on that side... a little confidence would go a long way.
Yeh, not really getting this psychoanalysis of Martial. He could be a miserable twat, but what matters is what he does on the pitch.
Martial is a good goalscorer, has fantastic close control and dribbling. However, that is not enough to be a guaranteed starter if we want to win the biggest trophies. He either needs to improve his dynamisn or playmaking.
The best inverted forwards are either extremely good at attacking space (Salah and Ronaldo) or are extremely good at opening up defences with passing vision and defence splitting runs (Neymar and Hazard).
Martial is very talented, but it seems that he is working largely off talent. He hasn't developed certain skills that are required for top inverted forwards since he's been here.
Martial is a good goalscorer, has fantastic close control and dribbling. However, that is not enough to be a guaranteed starter if we want to win the biggest trophies. He either needs to improve his dynamisn or playmaking.
The best inverted forwards are either extremely good at attacking space (Salah and Ronaldo) or are extremely good at opening up defences with passing vision and defence splitting runs (Neymar and Hazard).
Martial is very talented, but it seems that he is working largely off talent. He hasn't developed certain skills that are required for top inverted forwards since he's been here.
From what I saw he got a few 45 mins on the right and was then benched. Thats hardly time to adjust
Well it's either something wrong, not bothered to put a shift in or has a crappy work rate. Either way, he's not the star man he has the potential to be yet neither he brings the better attacking output compared to the rest he's competing for a spot. If he isn't willing to fight for his place I wouldn't be bothered that much if he leaves. We've seen better talents wasted due to lack of effort or mentality.
I would absolutely love Martial at Spurs. We were apparently negotiating with his team back when he was at Monaco before he obviously ended up going to Man Utd.
I think he has so much potential.
I think he has so much potential.
You say fight for his place as if he's been given a fair crack at it. He was great on the LW in January before being dropped for no reason.
Sanchez has been bollocks in close to 70% of his games for United, yet was given time to play through it on the LW.
Martial has not been given the same allowances. Martial would have been shifted to the U23s if he put in the level of performance Sanchez has for his majority of the time here. Running around a lot off the ball doesn't make up for being shit on the ball. Martial's style of play is not to run around endlessly, we don't need a team full of 11 donkeys. Would players like Messi or Ronaldo "deservedly" not start at United because they don't track back like Sanchez?
All I'm seeing is a player who WANTS first team football. Surely that speaks in a better light? The fact he wants to be on the pitch and playing as much as possible. It takes balls to leave a club like United looking for the opportunity.
Yes, I read he won't sign a new contract. Also read that Rashford was not happy. Will they both go in the summer, don't think so. But you never know with Mourinho.
Yeah, but you cant really afford him. He is earning more than your highest earner at the moment, and I don't see Levy forking out £100m+ to buy him.
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Instead of Son?
He's definitely played more than 45 mins there. There are a couple games where he was on the right. One 90 minute example is our loss vs Newcastle.
There are also a couple of games where Sanchez was right to make room but we just looked far better as a side when Sanchez was left. Our best performances since Sanchez actually had Martial on the bench IIRC (Liverpool, Swansea second half vs City).
One game we played well in and had Martial involved was vs Chelsea. Ironically it was a match where Martial was on the left and him/Sanchez/Lukaku interlinked for the first goal. So yeah it's not like Mourinho hasn't played him left whatsoever.
He's working out the best balance and at 21 martial should be trying to make that RW spot his own so he can grow from there build his game and then earn his spot wherever he wants in his prime. Sanchez did the same when he was younger on the right for Barcelona, moving left and CF for Arsenal.
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Everyone seems to have a problem with the manager, and the media is doing their best to blow these issues out of proportion. Jose had a problem with Shaw, then a problem with Pogba, no we have Martial and Rashford.
Maybe Jose is the problem and needs replaced. Get a manager in who instead of playing 11 players, he might manage to squeeze in a couple more so everybody can be happy.
For sure Jose is demanding from his players, but is it not the same scenario with Pep and Klopp? Some pundits see an issue about the way Man Utd (or Jose) are playing that these players are failing to perform.
In the case of Martial, unless he signs before the end of the season, he will be off, thats for sure, and rightly so. The club will look to recover some of the money paid for him plus any profit, cause he will not come cheap.
As for Rashford, I would be really surprised if he had an issue with Jose. He has played many times this year, maybe not enough, but he has featured regularly in the squad. He is still young and I m sure he will do much better next season.
Maybe Jose is the problem and needs replaced. Get a manager in who instead of playing 11 players, he might manage to squeeze in a couple more so everybody can be happy.
For sure Jose is demanding from his players, but is it not the same scenario with Pep and Klopp? Some pundits see an issue about the way Man Utd (or Jose) are playing that these players are failing to perform.
In the case of Martial, unless he signs before the end of the season, he will be off, thats for sure, and rightly so. The club will look to recover some of the money paid for him plus any profit, cause he will not come cheap.
As for Rashford, I would be really surprised if he had an issue with Jose. He has played many times this year, maybe not enough, but he has featured regularly in the squad. He is still young and I m sure he will do much better next season.
Really? How much is he on? Kane is on over 100k a week, Alderweirald was offered about 130k and Kane will likely be offered close to 200k/week in his next contract.
I don't think we'll get him at all but will he really cost 100 million with 2 years left on his contract?
With Son
Would you not just have the same issue as we do where Martial really only fits in on the right?
I'v le had the discussion with quite a few opposition supporting mates of mine and they'd all love him but apart from Arsenal he's an awkward fit.
Really don't understand the affection the majority of United fans have for Martial - is it because he scored that goal against Liverpool?
Apart from 1 or 2 very good games he has disappointed so many times. He would possibly good backing up Lukaku as a no.9 but with Lukaku playing nearly every game + Rashford he is not going to get a look in.
As a wide forward he is totally uninspired when it comes to taking on players, poor link up play, disappears from games, poor attitude. Depay 2.0
Apart from 1 or 2 very good games he has disappointed so many times. He would possibly good backing up Lukaku as a no.9 but with Lukaku playing nearly every game + Rashford he is not going to get a look in.
As a wide forward he is totally uninspired when it comes to taking on players, poor link up play, disappears from games, poor attitude. Depay 2.0
Rubbish. Martial is on £65k/week. Even Sissoko is on higher (£80k/week) at Spurs. Martial wouldn't cost £100M to buy either with two years left on his contract.
He is gettable for Spurs but I dont think we would be in for him with us buying Lucas Moura in January. I think we want Malcom - but if Martial became available I could see us being interested.
They operate on different sides, really. Malcom and Lucas are more right sided while Martial much prefers the left (and Martial would be a great backup option for Kane as well)
He has a number of faults, but he's shown more potential than Depay. Also, he has played under 2 managers who both haven't understood how to use him properly, and still been productive. Under Jose, he was just beginning to hit his stride, when he was unfairly moved to the right and benched for Sanchez.
Sadly, I think we came too soon for him. He should have joined a club like Spurs or stayed at Monaco to develop his skills and then joined a top club if he felt he deserved to be a starter at 22. I daresay even with Sanchez, he would get significant game-time, but he wants to be a nailed on starter.
The problem is that we have Son who plays there and he is one of the first names on the teamsheet - would Martial get into the side ahead of him? I honestly don't think so. I still think he would be a good signing for us though.
I'm honestly not horrified at the idea of losing him. I'd expect us to demand one hell of an offer though, whether that be purely financial, a player in return, or some sort of buy-back clause in the deal (he is, after all, still very young).
We won't be selling him for 40 Million either. They will have to break their record transfer fee by big margin to land him.
Also don't think he will be sold. He will be promised games and will sign new contract. Just a gut feeling.
Jaybomb 2.0?
There was the same issue last summer yet you still went after Martial so who knows?
I would seriously question your footballing knowledge if you think Martial is only worth 40 million in today's market
True though Son has kicked on a lot this season and is a big player for us now. Having said that if we had Martial and Son in some sort of rotation like we do the full-backs that would greatly improve our squad.
Yeah potentially, just a bit of a muppet wet dream!
The other thing about him is that he can also operate as a striker and we've had far more luck in players who operate primarily as attacking midfielders and can cover up front (ie Son especially but also Lamela sometimes) than we have with actual backups who mostly sit on the bench (Llorente and Jannsen).
Like I said, likely a pipe dream though.
He was last season as well.
Last season: 21 goals, 10 assists in 2972 minutes
This season: 18 goals, 9 assists in 2997 minutes
How much do you think he'd go for?
I think it is difficult to predict the transfer market now. We smashed our transfer record by about 13 million last season to buy a centre back who'shad one season in Europe. Who knows what will happen this summer (likely nothing like that haha).
I would say more than 60 Million. We have paid nearly 40 Million for him 3 years ago and the market has gone crazy. Even fullbacks cost more than 40-45 Million.
True - I don't see Martial as a guaranteed starter for us which is the problem - he would improve our squad though a lot.
Ah nothing, just reminded me of someone I knew. You two would get along.
Eurosport now reporting that he wants to stay. Nevertheless it's all media BS atm.
Ah I see. That would definitely be difficult yep, though maybe we could stretch it if we thought he could genuinely end up a world class player in the future (which he has the talent to be).
Will be interesting to see what happens with him this summer. Like you said, wouldn't be surprised if this was just tactics from his team and he signs the new contract soon enough.
Obviously someone who was banned... no worries.
It's amazing to me that the people who question Martial are in such a minority that we get confused for each other!
and was pretty inconsistent in December against Bournemouth and Leicester.
Sanchez is the better and more mature player. He brings a lot to the team even in poor form. He needs to adapt and adjust, as he has shown that on form he would be our best attacking player - and one of the best in the league. Martial has the potential but hasn't shown that ceiling yet.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, Martial is not Messi or Ronaldo to give him the same allowances.
Everybody wants more game time mate, especially at 22. Rashford, Sanchez, Lukaku, etc are no different either. He hasn't convinced Jose to start him on that left wing and besides Sanchez there are other factors in there - like not giving his best to the team whilst on the pitch(like Sanchez, which is clearly visible) or at training.
If the rumors are true I'm seeing a player who hasn't been playing for some time(part of which he was injured) and wants to leave after couple of months. It doesn't show much balls to leave - on the contrary...