Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

limerickcitykid said:
Then all those players will have to go to lower clubs because they won't get it at the top clubs. Nor will they be demanding to start every game like the Martial fans here.

I'm secretly posting I work, I can't be doing in depth research :lol:

Transfermarkt has Martial as missing 5 games from injury anyway and two games on the bench after returning so not like he has been fully fit the whole time either.
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I'm rejecting that excuse, these are high profile injuries.:lol:

But no, they don't necessarily have to move at the exception of Kovacic and Asensio who should think about it. Tolisso joined his club this season and the manager changed, so you can understand the context, Thiago is a starter for Bayern and would have played a lot more without his injury, Dembélé we don't know but he was injured very early during his first season, Coman was playing more and more.

You can't just do what you did and name players because context matter, in the case of Martial, we are talking about a productive player who is at his current club since 2015, he isn't being eased into a team, he isn't coming back from a big injury and he isn't injury prone. Also my remark concerns the player position, while it's obviously good for United or Real Madrid to have Asensio, Martial and Kovacic as squad players, it's not good for the players development, if it wasn't for money none of these players would even be close to that situation, they would be playing week in week out for decent teams like Monaco, Dortmund, Valencia or Inter.

This is one of the most perverse consequences of money concentration in football, at 23 Zidane was playing week in week out for Bordeaux and he was far better than Martial.
 
Infra-red said:
Mourinho should continue to make selection decisions on the basis of performance in training and matches and whatever other football-related criteria he deems relevant. He should not cave to threats from players or pressure from agents who think they have the club over a barrel.

The RMC piece says he wants to leave this summer and has refused a 5 year deal offered to him by the club.
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Agreed, people forget Marcus is next after Tony. Anything we give Tony will be matched or surpassed by Marcus. Can’t give Martial the key to the car, only to have Rashford ask for the same thing.
 
Cassidy said:
I said if there was anyone who should have been replaced in terms of the side in attack in Jan it was him, we didn't sign him as our record signing to be a squad player.

EDIT: And btw I have no issue with Mata, I have an issue with the clear problem of our RW not being addressed and LW being disrupted when it didn't need to be.
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OK but why would he need replacing? The way I've seen this story unfold, we weren't in the market for a winger in January but pushed the boat out for a star player who became available. Sanchez can play on either flank but at 29 in his prime it was best to get him bedded in our side where he's most comfortable which meant on the left (mostly).

Mata is not involved in this debate whatsoever. As far as performances go I've always been very pleased with him. Martial had a very good run but then tailed off. The expectation from him is a different type as he's more of an explosive player and a maverick designed to carve open teams more often. He hasn't done it often enough however, whilst Mata has kept our team ticking and interlinking play very well on a consistent basis.

Now mourinho is obviously happy to keep both. He has uses for Martial and Mata and will play them of they show a fight or prove value in the side. Martial however doesn't fancy his chances against Sanchez and wants to go. Mata is happy to stay, and operates in a different part of the pitch anyway so he shouldn't be thrown into this discussion really.
 
I'm not José Out but I'd rather he leave than Martial. Absolutely ludicrous that it's come to this.
 
Damien said:
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Chucked in Sane just to show his starting stats aren't as awful as is being made out by some. Most of Martial's stats off the bench were in the first few games.
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Senastional stats from the bench.
 
redpatron said:
Agreed, people forget Marcus is next after Tony. Anything we give Tony will be matched or surpassed by Marcus. Can’t give Martial the key to the car, only to have Rashford ask for the same thing.
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Yes, agreed. They're both players with a lot of potential and I'd rather they stayed, if they're happy to do so, but we've got five guys competing for two starting positions.
 
Adisa said:
Fecking gutted tbh.
I'm desperate for him to stay but I can't make a reasonable case for him to.
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Atm, you really can't. He won't get any minutes as a striker, nor he can play on the left as it's pretty obviously reserved for Sanchez who is currently a better player, so he should wait for a season or two at least. The only position is on the right and he isn't a right-winger. He is also in an age where he has to play as much as he can.

If he really wants to leave, buyback clause would make so much sense. Real does it all the time (Morata, Casemiro, Carvajal all had it once they left). And I think we did it in Januzaj and Depay case which have me thinking we might do the same.

In the near future, we could have a certain option to buy a brilliant striker or attacking winger. Or he doesn't develop as we all think and there are no regrets. It's a no-brainer.
 
Lawman said:
Yep agree no problem with Mata in squad as his quality is brilliant but his skills make him awful to watch on the right attack in comparison to a Sterling or Mahrez or Sane or Mane type player who can all take a man on. My preference for the last few seasons was O Dembele for the right but that ship has sailed.
But surely a player of that ilk is a must for the right for next season. If not we will still be served up the same mechanical like performances regardless our midfield or full backs or centre backs that are mostly spoken about as the big problem.
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Unsure how mourinho wants his system. If he wants the skillful player on side and the intricate one to drift and create pockets on the other then this works fine. In any case I don't think Mata is relevant to Martial wanting to leave.
 
prath92 said:
On the flip side, neither rooney nor Ronaldo ended up ineffective when played in a different position, didn’t cry when not given a run in the position they want to be in. Even nani without complaint played on both flanks.
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Time makes memories grow fonder.

Both Rooney and Ronaldo had spells of being ineffective, both being in and out of their preferred positions. Nani stated on more than one occasion that he prefers the right, but was shifted to accommodate the team since Valencia is useless on the left.

If we are talking about effectiveness, Martial G+A/min and overall at this point is probably the best return we’ve seen from a wide player since Nani 09-11 and Valencia 11-12. He may not yet live up to the lofty expectations us fans have but 3 PotM in a less than perfect season seems to suggest that he’s doing something right.
 
VP89 said:
Unsure how mourinho wants his system. If he wants the skillful player on side and the intricate one to drift and create pockets on the other then this works fine. In any case I don't think Mata is relevant to Martial wanting to leave.
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Sanchez could play right and free up left for Martial or Rashford being more the point made.
 
Lawman said:
Sanchez could play right and free up left for Martial or Rashford being more the point made.
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I've addressed that. He's 29 and we need the best impact now. It's most sensible to play him in his preferred role. We are starting to reap benefits of it from his performances against Liverpool, Swansea and City
 
dirkey said:
We don't know all of it, no. We know that he wants to win though, Jose. He's a born winner, doesn't care about style, winning is what counts. So, my guess is that he would play whatever players he thinks give him the best chance of winning. Thus, again my guess, if they prove in training they're the best fit for the job, they play.

Do we know that he harbors random vendettas against people? Do you question people who claim that, repeatedly, in relation to Martial as to whether or not we know it?
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So the conclusion is we know nothing....
 
I'm not really convinced Martial has what it takes mentally to reach his full potential. The talent and ability is obviously there. The desire and work hard both off and on the pitch is something he really needs to work on.

He's a talented player and would be a loss, but by no means irreplaceable..
 
VP89 said:
I've addressed that. He's 29 and we need the best impact now. It's most sensible to play him in his preferred role. We are starting to reap benefits of it from his performances against Liverpool, Swansea and City
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No we need to do the best for the team not Sanchez regardless of his age. If that’s playing him on the right where he’s a 7/10 rather than an 8 then that’s where I would play him if it meant bringing Martial or Rashford in and improving us as a team overall. I don’t think we have tried this enough and if I’m honest it looks like Sanchez has stated he wants to play on the left before signing to me.
 
Nothing better than CAF psychological experts who know a mans mental state without ever meeting them.
 
Jim Beam said:
Tottenham and Newcastle away as I can remember.
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The two defeats and horrendous team performances :( He must have played more games there. Didn't we play a few games or parts of games earlier in the season with Rashford, Lukaku and Martial as the front 3?

I don't think Rashford has the technical ability to play on the less comfortable side, but Martial should be able to.
 
VeevaVee said:
McTominay and Rashford are being brought through as we speak. Other younger players that weren't the finished article have had lots of opportunities and only not become starters because they've failed to impress or been injured (Shaw/Jones off the top of my head).

Lingard is almost a starter as things stand.

Both Rooney and Ronaldo played all over the place and put a shift in.

There's opportunity, but if he wants out rather than fighting for it then I think no balls is a good summary.
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I don’t think you can count any of them as being undisputed star player/starter, at least not yet, most likely not ever. It’s fine, modern football has become increasingly more cutthroat and we can’t afford to give youngsters time like we used to, but let’s not pretend that since Rooney and Ronaldo, we’ve been successful in developing any outfield player into stars, and if you count De Gea as established which imho we should, since he was starter for Atletico for a while and already won the Europa League when he came to us, then no young player at all.

I’m not blaming Jose for his preference of working with established players (by his own admission, 27 and above), but saying Martial has no balls for wanting out from a coach who throughout his career has had no success to speak of on moulding young attacking talents and isn’t trusting him to play is nonsensical.
 
PepsiCola said:
Nothing better than CAF psychological experts who know a mans mental state without ever meeting them.
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There's obvious difference when you see Sanchez giving his all on the pitch even if his game is not going for him and Martial strolling around. Have you watched his off the ball work lately?
 
Lawman said:
No we need to do the best for the team not Sanchez regardless of his age. If that’s playing him on the right where he’s a 7/10 rather than an 8 then that’s where I would play him if it meant bringing Martial or Rashford in and improving us as a team overall. I don’t think we have tried this enough and if I’m honest it looks like Sanchez has stated he wants to play on the left before signing to me.
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I genuinely think the team looks better with Sanchez left than right. I don't like to shoe horn Martial in for the sale of conditioning potential that is still a few years away. He isn't consistent enough for me.
 
Bastian said:
The two defeats and horrendous team performances :( He must have played more games there. Didn't we play a few games or parts of games earlier in the season with Rashford, Lukaku and Martial as the front 3?

I don't think Rashford has the technical ability to play on the less comfortable side, but Martial should be able to.
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I think Rashford went on the right few cases that happen, but if someone knows better correct me.

Both Rashford and Martial look pretty underwhelming on the right tbf, it simply isn't their natural position. You pretty much take away a lot of Martial dribbling and goalscoring threat there (can't cut inside) which are his biggest attacking assets.
 
Only way we don't look like absolute mugs is if he leaves and we replace him with Ousmane Dembele who looks out of sorts at Barcelona.

Other than that Mourinho needs to convince him to stay.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Time makes memories grow fonder.

Both Rooney and Ronaldo had spells of being ineffective, both being in and out of their preferred positions. Nani stated on more than one occasion that he prefers the right, but was shifted to accommodate the team since Valencia is useless on the left.

If we are talking about effectiveness, Martial G+A/min and overall at this point is probably the best return we’ve seen from a wide player since Nani 09-11 and Valencia 11-12. He may not yet live up to the lofty expectations us fans have but 3 PotM in a less than perfect season seems to suggest that he’s doing something right.
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Spells yes. But can’t think of any game where martial looked comfortable on the right.

He is best from the left. No one questions that but if he wants assurances he would need to be happy or willing to play on the right. I don’t think lukaku De Gea and maybe Pogba aside, anyone can be given assurances. As someone who only plays in the left or rather who cannot he effectibe on the opposite flank, his likelihood of starting reduces.
 
Jim Beam said:
You pretty much take away a lot of Martial dribbling and goalscoring threat there (can't cut inside) which are his biggest assets.
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You can pretty much say exactly the same thing for Ronaldo and Nani, but they has many good performances on the right.

There is no reason whatsoever that Martial can’t play really well there if he puts his mind to it.
 
Jim Beam said:
I think Rashford went on the right few cases that happen, but if someone knows better correct me.

Both Rashford and Martial look pretty underwhelming on the right tbf, it simply isn't their natural position. You pretty much take away a lot of Martial dribbling and goalscoring threat there (can't cut inside) which are his biggest attacking assets.
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Yes, I agree that it isn't his natural position and he'll be more limited. But he's got the skills to beat a player whereas Rashford just has the pace to knock it past them (at least consistently). He's got the technical ability to adapt I think, but he might not fancy it and Jose might not either. Personally, I'd rather see that experiment than see him shipped out.
 
El Jefe said:
Only way we don't look like absolute mugs is if he leaves and we replace him with Ousmane Dembele who looks out of sorts at Barcelona.

Other than that Mourinho needs to convince him to stay.
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From a tactical perspective, Barca could do with Martial more than Dembele. Allows Messi to stay on the right and gives them a reference point from the left. Not to mention, they need more of a goalscorer out wide than a pure creator.. as older Messi gets, he wants to drop deeper. That is of course they think Martial is even good enough.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You can pretty much say exactly the same thing for Ronaldo and Nani, but they has many good performances on the right.

There is no reason whatsoever that Martial can’t play really well there if he puts his mind to it.
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Different types of players. You put Hazard on the right and his style of play wouldn't work as well. Some wingers can play both flanks, other wide players can't. You wouldn't put Thierry Henry on the right flank, you wouldn't put Messi down the left.. yet someone like Robben could do both.

Its not always a case of just putting your mind to it. If that is the case, then why not put Sanchez down the right when he has experience of playing there already? because his age and shift in style of play now means he's better suited down the left. It happens.
 
Damien said:
He has done 5 times this season and 4 times last season. Alexis has already completed 5 games in just a couple of months.
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Illuminating statistics.

Anyone who brands this need to leave as Martial being a player with no fight or a coward is off the mark. I think it’s clear he is just simply not seen as a first choice player under Mourinho - irrespective of output and as such is disenchanted with his career here.
 
Damien said:
I think so. Caf recorded 3 assists for that game too.
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Ah k. The lad knows how to produce near the goal. It's why I liked Martial and Lukaku as a partnership. If he could run behind defences more, or improve his playmaking he would be amazing.

I remember that goal against Everton where he did that 1-2 with Hererra. I thought we had a player that could match Hazard in the league on the left. It seems like that type of movement is an anomaly for Martial, I'm struggling to think of a time where he did that give and go, and did a darting run behind the defence.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
You can pretty much say exactly the same thing for Ronaldo and Nani, but they has many good performances on the right.

There is no reason whatsoever that Martial can’t play really well there if he puts his mind to it.
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Has he been afforded the time to do so? Also why move him there when he was in form and why not put Sanchez there?
Thats not even remembering he has already been moved from CF to LW. I would argue younger players need more consistency for their development. Its easier to move an established player.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Illuminating statistics.

Anyone who brands this need to leave as Martial being a player with no fight or a coward is off the mark. I think it’s clear he is just simply not seen as a first choice player under Mourinho - irrespective of output and as such is disenchanted with his career here.
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Pretty much
 
Cassidy said:
Has he been afforded the time to do so? Also why move him there when he was in form and why not put Sanchez there?
Thats not even remembering he has already been moved from CF to LW. I would argue younger players need more consistency for their development. Its easier to move an established player.
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I think most of us wanted to see Sanchez slot in on the right. That's not happened and does not look remotely likely, unfortunately. If the choice is between losing him or trying him out on the right (which would require him being committed to making it here and Jose seeing that as an option) I'd rather see that experiment.
 
Enigma_87 said:
There's obvious difference when you see Sanchez giving his all on the pitch even if his game is not going for him and Martial strolling around. Have you watched his off the ball work lately?
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Yes. That tells me nothing of his psychological state. It just tells me that he doesn't track back as much as other players.
 
Cassidy said:
Has he been afforded the time to do so? Also why move him there when he was in form and why not put Sanchez there?
Thats not even remembering he has already been moved from CF to LW. I would argue younger players need more consistency for their development. Its easier to move an established player.
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Sanchez only arrived in January and Martial has had a couple goes at RW since he came (he was just really shite there). He will probably get more in time if he continues to work hard but he's seemingly made up his mind to leave.
 
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