Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay

Mockney said:
I love Martial, and would be incredibly sad to lose him, but he’s also quite obviously a bit of a pussy.

It’s not the first time a spell out of the team has preceded leaked melodramatic news like this. It’s been hanging over him, on and off, for nearly two seasons now. Every time he was dropped after a period of poor form. Even though he was merely a 20 year old wunderkind with one prominent season under his belt.
And yet despite all this perpetual commotion, he was flying high, in fine form and playing regularly as little as 3 months back.

So while Jose may not have embraced him like LVG (or another manager) might, it’s not like he’s been frozen out or anything either. He’s always been able to win his place back, when he deserved it. And for a 22 year old, at a club like United, that’s not particularly weird, unfair or unremarkable.

And sure, bringing in a ringer like Sanchez must have been a kick in the nuts. And he’s been given less leeway than others. But to go from in form and happy to “I’m off!” in 3 months, only bolsters my opinion that he’s never truly appreciated that it’s United that made him a star, and not the other way around.

Great player. Great potential. Would be a Great loss. But the whole “Martial FC/The club should bend over backwards to accommodate his insecurity”? Nah. Not buying it.
Click to expand...

Then got dropped from his favoured position for no reason at all, and then shifted around and benched. Knowing full well Sanchez was going to play in his position, how was he going to get a fair chance to win his place back? Especially as Sanchez has mostly had bad games since getting here (understandable as he's moving to a new side but certainly his performances didn't merit being constantly selected). Yet Sanchez didn't get dropped?

As for the pussy bit, disagree. The easier thing to do would be to sign that 5 year contract extension, be a bit part player here and coast. If he decides to leave, and goes to a big club - that surely shows ambition and belief that he can be a top class player if given the right environment and support.
 
Would be a blow to lose both Rashford and Martial in the same summer. Club needs to hold on to at least one of them - too much work to be done in midfield/defence to be bringing in multiple forwards/wingers too.
 
VP89 said:
Well Martial isn't happy to sit on the bench, which is why he wants out. But I've already named young players with his skill set. Lemar, Dembele, Sane all exploded onto the scene roughly when he did and play in the same position which means unearthing a similar talent within 3 years isn't unrealistic. He's not an MBappe level prospect that warrants passing up Sanchez starting over him.



Why are we comparing the opportunity cost of losing him to Ronaldo and Rooney? They were both far far better than him. Ronnie was hitting 30+ goals a season when he was 22 (almost 20 the year before) and Rooney was more complete than Martial is now when he was what, 19? These are special special players and Martials talent, whilst very high, is not THAT special or rare.
Click to expand...

Because Jose would not have stood by Ronaldo in his first 2 seasons when he a dribbling menace who lost the ball a lot and never tracked back.
 
Since when has a player been bigger than the club? We're not even talking about a genuine world class player either
 
Martial + cash for Bale.

I hope we don’t but can see it happening.
 
charlenefan said:
Since when has a player been bigger than the club? We're not even talking about a genuine world class player either
Click to expand...

He has attributes that are world class and very very rare. It all just boils down to whether you value those attributes as highly as some of us Martial FC fans do.

His close control is a rare, rare asset. His dribbling and his finishing ability combined is deadly IF he has space. He can beat his man 9/10 with just his dribbling. He will turn out to be a geniune world class player in a few years time in an attacking side. It is laughable that some don't see this happening.
 
Martial was pulled from filming for a Chevrolet advert today with De Dea. Pogba brought in to replace him.

For the conspiracists amongst you...
 
I wouldn't be too bothered if he goes. He's obviously got the talent, but not the mentality. And if it means we could possibly get a really good player on the right, then it would turn out to be good business.
 
dirkey said:
No. We don't. Like I said in my post, I don't know. But I think it starts there, and Jose makes decisions based on that. That's my guess. As a manager, he watches his players in training and picks them based on form in the most part. He wants to win, he's not going to go around having random vendettas against players as a number of posters in here would like to believe.
Click to expand...
Do we actually know any of that?
 
snk123 said:
He has attributes that are world class and very very rare. It all just boils down to whether you value those attributes as highly as some of us Martial FC fans do.
Click to expand...

:lol:

If he leaves you’re going to support the team he plays for then?
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Do we actually know any of that?
Click to expand...
We don't know all of it, no. We know that he wants to win though, Jose. He's a born winner, doesn't care about style, winning is what counts. So, my guess is that he would play whatever players he thinks give him the best chance of winning. Thus, again my guess, if they prove in training they're the best fit for the job, they play.

Do we know that he harbors random vendettas against people? Do you question people who claim that, repeatedly, in relation to Martial as to whether or not we know it?
 
snk123 said:
He has attributes that are world class and very very rare. It all just boils down to whether you value those attributes as highly as some of us Martial FC fans do.

His close control is a rare, rare asset. His dribbling and his finishing ability combined is deadly IF he has space. He can beat his man 9/10 with just his dribbling. He will turn out to be a geniune world class player in a few years time in an attacking side. It is laughable that some don't see this happening.
Click to expand...

Right now he's no where near as good as you suggest, his ability to beat a man for example because what does happen 9/10 times is he passes the ball backwards rather than take his man on
 
Jacko21 said:
Martial was pulled from filming for a Chevrolet advert today with De Dea. Pogba brought in to replace him.

For the conspiracists amongst you...
Click to expand...

Well at least Pogba is staying then :lol:
 
If Martial does indeed leave you can absolutely guarantee that Bale is going to replace him.
 
An earlier poster mentioned he has started 90 odd games and 30 odd sub appearances. So he's started 75% of games he could of, that's a good ratio of starts at a top top club.

In 16/17 he made 25 appearances, 7 as sub and returned 4 goals in the league, 8 in total.

In 17/18 he's made so far, 26 appearances, 10 as sub and returned 9 goals in the league, 11 in total.

I get he's a talented player but it's revisionist to suggest he's some sort of wonderboy who has or will dominate football for years to come. He's got an alright return, in the league he's a one in four player, but people are to caught up on what he might become, it's a romantic notion but let's be real.
 
Escape Goat said:
Very likely true though.
Click to expand...

Not really. Ronaldo was a much bigger talent and ahead in his development at the same age as Martial. If Mourinho managed Ronaldo when he was 21 he wouldn't have dropped him. He was by then a 30 goal a season sort of player.

The fallacy imo is that a lot of posters put Martial on the same level as some rare special talents that come by pretty much never.

Also regarding Martial I get an impression that he feels self entitled. It's based on very little so I might be wrong but it does seem to coincide. His reported displeasure at losing the 9 to Zlatan was a bit OTT, I mean he should accept he's no Zlatan and understand the situation. And now he's reportedly wanting more game time but for his age at a club like ours, I'd argue he is getting opportunities. I do like him though and it would suck to lose him. Just not as much as some might suggest if it were to happen.
 
Martial's stats are massively inflated for two reasons:

1) That period at the beginning of the season where he was ridiculously good as a substitute

2) He fades very sharply at the end of games, and so is taken off regularly

This is Morata all over. Morata had better per-90 metrics than Messi, but he played in favorable conditions and could not get more minutes because of deficiencies in his game.

When you look at how impactful players are when starting a game:

Martial : 24 starts, 13 goals and assists, 0.54 per start
Lingard: 24 starts, 12 goals and assists, 0.50 per start
Lukaku: 41 starts, 30 goals and assists, 0.73 per start
Sanchez: 12 starts, 7 goals and assists, 0.58 per start

Add into this the qualities each player brings. Lukaku is better at running the channels and bringing others into play. Lingard provides an extra element to our midfield through his ball playing and pressing skills. Sanchez is a far better playmaker than Martial.

In my opinion. Lukaku has been our standout attacker this season, with everyone else lagging behind. I have wanted to upgrade our left wing for a while, and if Sanchez doesn't get better he'll be a flop.
 
Last edited:
I honestly struggle to remember many matches when I came away thinking the guy had had a good game. He's a player who provides moments, not 90 minutes and certainly not seasons. Wouldn't be the biggest loss.
 
breakout67 said:
Martial's stats are massively inflated for two reasons:

1) That period at the beginning of the season where he was ridiculously good as a substitute

2) He fades very sharply at the end of games, and so is taken off regularly

This is Morata all over. Morata had better per-90 metrics than Messi, but he played in favorable conditions and could not get more minutes because of deficiencies in his game.

When you look at how impactful players are when starting a game:

Martial : 24 starts, 13 goals and assists, 0.54 per start
Lingard: 24 starts, 12 goals and assists, 0.50 per start
Lukaku: 41 starts, 30 goals and assists, 0.73 per start
Sanchez: 14 starts, 7 goals and assists, 0.50 per start

Add into this the qualities each player brings. Lukaku is better at running the channels and bringing others into play. Lingard provides an extra element to our midfield through his ball playing and pressing skills. Sanchez is a far better playmaker than Martial.

In my opinion. Lukaku has been our standout attacker this season, with everyone else lagging behind. I have wanted to upgrade our left wing for a while, and if Sanchez doesn't get better he'll be a flop.
Click to expand...

Where the hell? Where are these Sanchez stats from? He has more than 14 starts for the entire season. If you're counting only starts for us then he sure as hell does not have 7 goals.
 
I would question the route this club is trying to go if the got rid of Martial. Once in a generation talent that needs some coddling. If Mata calls him "the French Ronaldo" he aint lying. There will be heads rolling if he is sold for an aging Sanchez.
 
MadMike said:
Where the hell? Where are these Sanchez stats from? He has more than 14 starts for the entire season. If you're counting only starts for us then he sure as hell does not have 7 goals.
Click to expand...

I got it slightly wrong by counting his international games.

Sanchez has started 12 games for United and got 7 goals + assists
 
If we got Dybala in return I'd happily let him leave. Considering it seems we are going to play a 3 in midfield due to it suiting our players more and allowing Pogba to influence the game, Dybala and Sanchez behind Lukaku in a diamond would be so fecking tasty. Basically playing the role Lingard did against City, only being a far superior player.

Spend the money we get from him on a top class CM, Dybala, two new fullbacks and we'd have a squad capable of winning it all. As talented as Martial is and as gutted as I'd be to see him leave, Sanchez is the superior player and honestly there's nothing to suggest he'll ever reach the level Sanchez has. There's far more to the game than talent ala Nani.

People saying it's a repeat of Salah, KDB etc. - I hope they're right. Mourinho let those players go because they weren't ready yet (evidenced by them needing a few more years of development before they really began to shine), clubs at the top now can't afford to play those players anymore, they need players ready to perform now, the game is far too competitive and it's all about results. Mourinho prioritised other players to those ones and those players won him the league, so here's hoping.

Anyone who wants to leave Manchester United should be allowed to, it should be an honour to play for this club. Look at the mentality Herrera possesses, arguably our best player last season and was benched for the majority of the season, not once complained, instead was happy to even be playing for such a club and gives his 110% everytime he plays.

One last thing too, how often do we let go of a player who actually comes back to bite us in the arse? Every player we sell you'd swear is about to turn the corner and become Ronaldo when in fact their level remains about the same, or even drops. I'd be surprised if Martial didn't become a special player, but at the same time wouldn't be shocked at all.
 
Raees said:
Then got dropped from his favoured position for no reason at all, and then shifted around and benched. Knowing full well Sanchez was going to play in his position, how was he going to get a fair chance to win his place back?
Click to expand...

Which favoured position was this again? Was it the No9 that he apparently so coveted that he threw a hissy fit through his agent when Zlatan took the number, and was then used as the primary excuse for his poor form last season, despite even the silliest silly stat graphs showing that he didn’t even play it consistently under LVG? Or was it the LWF, that he’s battled with Rashford for all season, and subsequently played a great deal more than, yet still managed to strop more (and leak to the press) whenever dropped?.... All despite being a 22 year old with only one truly big season to his name, a season itself buoyed in significance by sheer virtue of being at Man Utd?

As for the pussy bit, disagree. The easier thing to do would be to sign that 5 year contract extension, be a bit part player here and coast. If he decides to leave, and goes to a big club - that surely shows ambition and belief that he can be a top class player if given the right environment and support.
Click to expand...

What was more ambitious? Welbeck fighting for his place here, or going to Arsenal? The “ambition clause” argument (TM) is usually only fair use when a player leaves a club below his level, for one that can fulfill his competitive drive. Less so for when a player wants to leave a club with significant competitive drive, because there’s too much competition ahead of him.

At which other elite level club will he get more minutes, or the required patience to let him grown into his best role? Is he gonna go to Barca and get it? With Suarez, Dembele and Messi? (And potentially Greizmann) Is he gonna get that at Real? Or Bayern? Maybe he’ll displace Mbappe or Neymar at PSG?

What if he ends up going to a lesser club, with a lower prestige and/or competitive ceiling, for slightly more game time? Could you still claim ambition was his noble driving motivation?

Admittedly it can still apply when a player is so cruelly and unusually starved of opportunity that he’s but no choice than to force his way out of his ghastly, prejudicial situation. Though that does admittedly apply a tad less when said player was POTM and a regular starter at the turn of the year.

And no doubt, I believe he can be a great player. And I believe Jose could’ve treated him a lot better. But I also believe he’s bought into his own legend way too much in his short time here. A legend he’s gained without doing an awful lot.
 
Last edited:
I agree with pretty much all of that. Cut through all of José's shit and the stuff he respects is clear. Shut the feck up, train your arse off and be ready to take your chance when it comes. His go-to guys, his stalwarts, Matic, Valencia, Young, Lukaku, they just work, no shit in the press. Of course they play all the time so maybe Herrera is a better example. POTY last season, has hardly got a kick this time round. Not a peep out of him, trusted on Sunday, delivers. I want to see NOTHING in the press from him or is camp. We all want to see him stay and succeed, he needs to fight to stay, not fight to leave.
 
Mockney said:
Which favoured position was this again? Was it the No9 that he apparently so coveted that he threw a hissy fit through his agent when Zlatan took the number, and was then used as the primary excuse for his poor form last season, despite even the silliest silly stat graphs showing that he didn’t even play it consistently under LVG?
Or was it the LWF, that he’s battled with Rashford for all season, and subsequently played a great deal more than, yet still managed to strop more (and leak to the press) whenever dropped?.... All despite being a 22 year old with only one truly big season to his name, a season itself buoyed in significance by sheer virtue of being at Man Utd?



What was more ambitious? Welbeck fighting for his place here, or going to Arsenal? The “ambition clause” argument (TM) is usually only fair use when a player leaves a club below his level, for one that can fulfill his competitive drive. Less so for when a player wants to leave a club with significant competitive drive, because there’s too much competition ahead of him.
At which other elite level club will he get more minutes, or the required patience to let him grown into his best role? Is he gonna go to Barca and get it? With Suarez, Dembele and Messi? (And potentially Greizmann) Is he gonna get that at Real? Or Bayern? Maybe he’ll displace Mbappe or Neymar at PSG?

What if he ends up going to a lesser club, with a lower prestige and/or competitive ceiling, for slightly more game time? Could you still claim ambition was his noble driving motivation?

Admittedly it can still apply when a player is so cruelly and unusually starved of opportunity that he’s but no choice than to force his way out of his ghastly, prejudicial situation. Though that does admittedly apply a tad less when said player was POTM and a regular starter at the turn of the year.

And no doubt, I believe he can be a great player. And I believe Jose could’ve treated him a lot better. But I also believe he’s bought into his own legend way too much in his short time here. A legend he’s gained without doing an awful lot.
Click to expand...

I dont post much here now and lazily scrolled to the most recent comment, didn't check who the poster was but not surprised.

I'm a huge martial fan, i think he MAY be a great player in the making, but I think his contribution is level with rashers, possibly a bit more. Watching the two of them play, martial looks the more cultured of the two, but rashford delivers on an equal scale.

One of them is edging for a move, one of them is not. One of them understands their role.in the squad, one of them thinks they should be elevated.

The simple fact is that a player who produces results becomes undroppable. See ronaldo, see darren fletcher 2011. Martial needs to prove beyond doubt that he is undroppable.

He hasnt quite done that for all his promise. The brave option would be to try and achieve that. Hope he doesnt leave!
 
We'll take him over at Arsenal if he's looking for playing time
 
IMO he will never fulfil his potential if he continues to act immature. For example, before he had even played for Mourinho, there were press leaks about how distraught he was at losing the number 9 jersey to Zlatan.

I'll definitely give him the benefit of the doubt that he isn't a Jose favourite. However, if he ends up at the likes of Madrid or Barca (seeing as he thinks he should be an automatic starter for the best teams around), you can be sure there will be plenty of tough times ahead given his age and how many of the top clubs chop and change managers (and not all of those managers are going to enjoy his style). If he can't handle being a squad player at United at the age of 22, you can bet he will be mentally fragile at these other clubs which aren't as patient.
 
Traub said:
IMO he will never fulfil his potential if he continues to act immature. For example, before he had even played for Mourinho, there were press leaks about how distraught he was at losing the number 9 jersey to Zlatan.

I'll definitely give him the benefit of the doubt that he isn't a Jose favourite. However, if he ends up at the likes of Madrid or Barca (seeing as he thinks he should be an automatic starter for the best teams around), you can be sure there will be plenty of tough times ahead given his age and how many of the top clubs chop and change managers (and not all of those managers are going to enjoy his style). If he can't handle being a squad player at United at the age of 22, you can bet he will be mentally fragile at these other clubs which aren't as patient.
Click to expand...
They were overstated. He was just pissed that the number was taken without even having the courtesy to speak to him about it first.
 
Damien said:
They were overstated. He was just pissed that the number was taken without even having the courtesy to speak to him about it first.
Click to expand...

I mean, It's Zlatan. He's a living legend of the game.

I think him being pissed is just his agent leaking things to the press to strengthen Martial's position. If Martial was actually pissed, then I would be concerned about his attitude.
 
Are RMC report uber trustworthy or something? Everyone is acting like this rumour is certain.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.