So you’re basically saying it’s the manager’s fault?
Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
So you’re basically saying it’s the manager’s fault?
Are you serious. He was doing really well before the new year,4 or 5 goals a few assists and then he gets dropped because Sanchez comes who has been pathetic since he came. Jose has a rep for doimg this. Remember salah was 22 when Jose shunted him out of Chelsea, look at him now. Kdb can't have been much different in age.
Well maybe compare the player under the two managers at the club.
I understand, but that goes for any player though. It's very unlikely that selling any single of our current players will completely change the fortunes of the club.
I get that he's been frustrating at times and that his first season is probably the best year he's had here so far, but I still think there's a fair bit of talent in him and I reckon it'd be a mistake to let him go - could be one we come to regret. He's still quite young and the sort of player who could explode him into a top talent within a year or so, albeit petering out into a standard squad player is also a possibility.
Who says we want to sell him? From what I've read, he wants to leave.
We have Rashford on the left long term. There is no point in having 3 players on the left. We could sign other young players in the coming years. Martial is not the only talented young player on this planet.
Delaney is a fraud. No story here.
Fair enough. FWIW, I am 100% in the "do not sell" camp (or rather "do not leave"). We can be successful whether or not he stays.
There are other talented young players. We could sign 'another' Martial in the coming years. We offered him a contract and he rejected it anyway (apparently). We have Rashford already here.
Yes because he isn't playing enough and doesn't feel valued. Its something that can happen more often especially without having a manager who is going to be at the club in 5 years time. Especially since manager hires will mean, managers wanting to bring their own in and focus less of developing or working with rough diamonds. So this IMO is a case like so and we as a club should be thinking about it IMO
So should we bring LvG back?
It didn't start with him buddy
Rashford is a future 9 IMO. Could definitely play with Lukaku up top if we ever return to 4-4-2/any two striker formation.
Martial's dribbling and productivity is rare for someone at his age. We'll regret it big time if we let him go.
Well yes, but the question is as to why we'd be letting go of one of the current decent prospects we have who features regularly for us, and who we spent a fair bit of money on in the first place. While he's here it'd surely be wise for us to try and hang onto him, at least for another year or two.
The most fitting username for this thread.
No, the poster asked if the manager was at fault for the players confidence.
I don't see a clear fault, so no. I'm literally saying that confidence variation is part of a sportsman's life, it's part of a team's day to day life and it's one of the responsibilities of a manager.
So what do we do? Play him over Sanchez? We shouldn't have signed Sanchez?
People were saying the same stuff when welbeck was leaving. "oh no please don't go" take off your rose tinted glasses and see it for what it is. He just isn't good enough
In fairness, it doesn't sound like we're eager to push him out of the door here - we've reportedly offered him a 5 year deal.
We want to keep him at the club, he just doesn't want to stay.
I hope this isn't true.
I'd argue Martial's a far better all-round player than Welbeck was at the same age, and is now. Martial's been frustrating but has sometimes shown glimpses of being really talented; Welbeck was generally just a workhorse who was an okay squad player and nothing more.
The club can't force Jose to do anything in terms of who plays and where. Its pretty obvious what Jose should do but of course he will do what he likes.
In the long term though I think the club needs to think about ways it can protect its young talents in terms of having managers come in and out regularly. I do not say I have the answers but of course this is one reason for a DOF type of role.
Martial is the one who rejected the contract.
He's was our most productive player for a lot of this season.
You didn't answer the question. With Sanchez here now, what do we do?
If you think we cannot replace Martial both now and in the future, you are dead wrong.
I think wherever he goes he'll play better and be more consistent then what he'll do here next season. That's why I can't blame him too much for wanting to leave, and why it might be for the best ultimately. Sometimes players need a move to make that step up instead of a gradual increase in playing time,and sometimes they just need the right system to suit them to bring the best out of them. It's no secret that Mourinho's system doesn't get the best out of attackers in general, let alone the type of player Martial is. A wide forward like him needs to play in an attacking system, where he has a high starting position, can make runs in behind or drift inwards when he gets the ball to get goals, but generally always have his space to attack. Look at Mo Salah, people often use him as an example to criticize Mourinho with. Salah for Mourinho even right now would be pretty ineffective. Completely conflicting styles (de bruyne is different). Martial under Klopp or Pep, in a very attacking system like they have where they take loads of risks going forward and always commit bodies in attack. Martial has plenty of space to improve himself of course, and isn't without his faults, but a better system would get so much more out of him and I think he'll show that wherever he goes. Even if it is to Atletico, since his role in a defensive side would be replacing Griezmann basically so would have a roaming attacking role.
Of course, we would hope that he could develop here, but it's unlikely, and we'll always be rotating people without anyone fully becoming what they want to be or what they can be because of shared time. Even if you ignore Sanchez being here. Our long term future only ever held one of Rashford or Martial in the side. With Sanchez here especially, there's only room for one, but the thing that changed is there's less time to share now. It sucks, but it is how it is because of how Mourinho uses Lukaku. If Sir Alex was here, I have no doubt that we'd be playing a form of 4-4-2 where 3 of lukaku, martial, rashford and Sanchez are always on the pitch. And the 4th rotating constantly amongst those 3 and subbing any of them off, and all 4 happy and playing. Mourinho though never subs lukaku, never rests him, and almost never changes the system to accommodate 2 strikers. So there's no room for all of them.
Of course, we would hope that he could develop here, but it's unlikely, and we'll always be rotating people without anyone fully becoming what they want to be or what they can be because of shared time. Even if you ignore Sanchez being here. Our long term future only ever held one of Rashford or Martial in the side. With Sanchez here especially, there's only room for one, but the thing that changed is there's less time to share now. It sucks, but it is how it is because of how Mourinho uses Lukaku. If Sir Alex was here, I have no doubt that we'd be playing a form of 4-4-2 where 3 of lukaku, martial, rashford and Sanchez are always on the pitch. And the 4th rotating constantly amongst those 3 and subbing any of them off, and all 4 happy and playing. Mourinho though never subs lukaku, never rests him, and almost never changes the system to accommodate 2 strikers. So there's no room for all of them.
You know there is something called training. I'm pretty sure he has valid reasons for not playing him at all, at the moment. I'm guessing that Lingards and Rashfords form also has something to do with it.
If I was manager Sanchez would be playing on the right, since it was RW where we had a pressing need, and if the manager didn't think Sanchez could play on the right he shouldn't have signed him.
His best was under LvG though. The rest of the team were awful however.
Cool, we're in agreement there.
I just think he wants reassurances about his place in the team. The signing of Sanchez surely didn't help.
As I said previously I’d be happy for Rashford to step up but we’d still need to replace Martial. No one here has a clue who with though. Any highly rated youngster will cost a fortune and I doubt united have skilled enough scouts now-a-days to find a hidden gem. When was the last time we did?
I think Martial is a better player and finisher then Welbeck and has the bonus of not being as injury-prone either.
such a shame if he goes - something very special about the boy and he was in great form before Sanchez arrived - He and Rashford should have played more this season.
ideally I'd even give him a new 5 year deal and a year long loan so he can get the experience he needs but I doubt that would have satisfied him.
could join the ranks of Salah, De Bruyne and Lukaku as Mourinho cast offs who showed up his lack of vision.
ideally I'd even give him a new 5 year deal and a year long loan so he can get the experience he needs but I doubt that would have satisfied him.
could join the ranks of Salah, De Bruyne and Lukaku as Mourinho cast offs who showed up his lack of vision.
I agree with you there. The player should not be telling him where he should play. Also what was the motive for buying, I would presume to stop City getting him.
LVG also showed faith in him and gave him responsibility. Martial has been treated rather harshly compared to his output by Jose in comparison.