On what evidence do you base Rashford/Martial better for us in the long run, compared to two established Premier League attackers who have proven themselves at the highest level, at other clubs too?
Martial | Di Marzio thinks he will stay
- Thread starter Hellboy
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On what evidence do you base Rashford/Martial better for us in the long run, compared to two established Premier League attackers who have proven themselves at the highest level, at other clubs too?
He shows his fight in training. Do you see him in training?! I don't. Do you know, for a fact, that he's busting his gut and showing incredible skills every day in training? I don't. So, he does that, and he'll get game time. Jose has proven this time and again.
And thanks, I'm glad you think I'm a genius.
The club, one would think with Jose's agreement/blessing, have extended a contract extension to Martial. And he has, for the time being, declined it. Not sure how you can just blame Mourinho on this one.
His talent and potential is undeniable, however it's not replaceable, especially with reinforcements coming in the summer. If United were to sell Martial, he would fund his own replacement. Certain players will be sold and specific players will be bought (i.e. midfield and a fullback). Jose has been very coy, yet obvious, that midfield was going to be strengthened and was happy about the attacking options.
United aren't forced to sell him (yet), but we know Jose wants his teams to be relatively settled and gelled together in the summer.
What would people think if we sold Martial to Dortmund with Pulisic coming to United? Selling Martial may enable Jose to have further balance on the right side of the attack with the ability to rotate between 433 and 4231 knowing he has the players he wants to execute.
His talent and potential is undeniable, however it's not replaceable, especially with reinforcements coming in the summer. If United were to sell Martial, he would fund his own replacement. Certain players will be sold and specific players will be bought (i.e. midfield and a fullback). Jose has been very coy, yet obvious, that midfield was going to be strengthened and was happy about the attacking options.
United aren't forced to sell him (yet), but we know Jose wants his teams to be relatively settled and gelled together in the summer.
What would people think if we sold Martial to Dortmund with Pulisic coming to United? Selling Martial may enable Jose to have further balance on the right side of the attack with the ability to rotate between 433 and 4231 knowing he has the players he wants to execute.
Plucked completely out of thin air. The thing is, as ridiculous as it sounds, you can't deny it either as essentially no ones knows.
And if he doesn't which is the most likely scenario? We will have lost in my opinion our player with the most potential in attack. Unless it's some kind of deal which involves a player of Dybala's ilk it will be hard to see him go.
I have been as big a Martial fan as anyone else, however I think the semi meltdown that this news has caused is unwarranted. Sure Martial is an exciting player, but like many others have mentioned in this thread it always feels like hes missing something. I can see people bringing out the Salah and De Bruyne situations, but I think this is closer to an Anelka situation. Outrageously talented when they feel like it, but cant seem to dig deep enough to produce that level of play on a regular basis.
Sure it'll definitely suck seeing him putting on another team's jersey, but there are definitely players who we could bring in who could perform at an equal or higher level. Personally would love to Timo Werner at the club.
Sure it'll definitely suck seeing him putting on another team's jersey, but there are definitely players who we could bring in who could perform at an equal or higher level. Personally would love to Timo Werner at the club.
Insulting another member
What ridiculous fight in training? How do you know Martial is not already doing that? What a silly point to make.
Martial can become Maradona in training and Jose would still refuse to play him because he does not want to. Also, he could always claim that playing well in training does not necessarily translate to putting in good performances in a real game.
What has Jose proven time and again? You are more deluded than I thought.
In the PL this season, Lukaku has 15 goals at a rate of a goal every 180 mins. Martial has 9 goals. Discounting his one penalty, he has 8 non-penalty goals in 1344 mins, so scores at a rate of a goal every 166 mins.
Goals and assists. Martial averages a non-penalty goal or assist every 103 mins. Lukaku averages a goal or assist every 122 mins.
I could list pass completion (Martial far better), distance covered (equal - actually Martial ran a tiny bit more on average in our CL games, no PL stats available), xG90 + xA90 (Martial ahead again)
One of these players starts every game in the PL.
Sanchez v Martial.
Well Sanchez wins on distance covered. Martial beats him on pass completion, goal scoring rate, goals + assists rate, xG90 + xA90.
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I believe some people are blaming it on Sanchez signing and using hindsight to justify it. I don't think we had planned to buy Sanchez as such. He was always going to City, until City tried to low-ball Arsenal. Suddenly he was available for us and Ed or the club were willing to pay and Jose had to quickly make a decision as to whether buy him or pass the opportunity. I am not surprised or sad that he decided to buy him.
I for one am delighted we guszumped City, imagine that City side with Sanchez in it. As with SAF, sometimes, like with Keano, you've gotta do everything to stop a player going to your rival, even if you don't necessarily need him at that point.
My God. Do you actually read what I say before replying. Here ... let me quote my piece and highlight for you:
My point is that, neither of us know what he's doing in training. You're acting like you know for a fact that he's doing everything in his power. You asked me how he shows Jose he's worth his place, if he's not given a chance as a sub. Well, he does it in training. Since neither of us know what he's showing in training, to say he has no choice but to hand in his transfer request as he's done everything he can, by fighting for his place earlier in the season, is wrong, in my opinion.
What's hilarious about your post, you say my point is silly as I can't know what he's doing in training, and then you claim that he can be Maradona in training and Jose would still refuse to play him because he does not want to. Haha, hilarious. How do you know this? That's just priceless. And I'm the deluded one?
Jose has proven time and again that he's willing to play players who the caf think are being treated harshly. Shaw came back in, played well, kept his place for a while. He disappeared again for a while, the caf was aghast, and when he reappeared recently as a sub, the size of his moobs showed pretty clearly that there was a reason he lost his place. However, according to the caf, it's a witch hunt and Jose has an agenda.
Likewise with Martial, when he misses a few games, it's an agenda. Recently Pogba was left out for a few games, it was an agenda and they'd had a falling out etc. It's tiresome.
Well it's his descion to go so I'm sure you're right in thinking that he can't wait that long. But in football you never know what could happen. I mean Sanchez could get a serious injury or completly lose his form and then he's in again. If I was Martial, I'd wait another year, unless it's United who want to sell him this summer.
Anyway, I like Tony but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. We've Rashford and Sanchez for LW which is good enough for me. If we can recoup most of his fee, I'll be happy. Well, as long as we recruit someone for RW finally.
That’s based on nothing.
Until Sanchez arrived the general consensus was that Martial was having a really good season. He was also statistically one of the most productive players in the league. And he's only 22. People seem to think that means you should be a world beater but most players don't reach their best level at the ripe old age of 22.
i hope this is false. easily my current favourite United player
Don't think people have issue with the signing itself. It's moreso the fact that playing Sanchez on the right, where Mou acknowledged he can play, to keep our most in form attacker (Martial) on the left wasn't even a consideration.
I like him but overall I feel Sanchez will click way more with the team and become more consistent and decisive.
Dont understand why one has to go though. Just move Sanchez to the right wing
Dont understand why one has to go though. Just move Sanchez to the right wing
We only paid £30 odd. The reported £50m+ was including bonuses, none of which have been met afaik
Martial had spells where he was almost unplayable as a number 9 his first season here and he was a teenager. He carried our attack at times.
It would suck to see him go but the reality is that we have better players in his position who are also performing better than him and he isn't willing to fight for his place. Not much you can do really. If we could get a good fee for him which helps us to strengthen other areas, it wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Passing up the opportunity to swap Mkhitaryan for a world class player like Sanchez would have been idiotic. We'll be fine.
Bit of a joke if true but, looking at the situation with 3x LW options and 0x RW options, something clearly had to give and Martial was always the weakest link due to the questions over his desire and effort on the pitch.
The worst thing is I honestly believe Sanchez will not perform as we want him to and I have never felt that Rashford is as good as the early hype suggested. Over the next 5 years I think Martial is the most likely to hit the higher levels, but it almost feels like he'll never do it here. His first season was his best, he played with tenacity and was ruthless with his dribbling and creating. Since then he's looked lethargic with glimpses of effort and a few goals.
The worst thing is I honestly believe Sanchez will not perform as we want him to and I have never felt that Rashford is as good as the early hype suggested. Over the next 5 years I think Martial is the most likely to hit the higher levels, but it almost feels like he'll never do it here. His first season was his best, he played with tenacity and was ruthless with his dribbling and creating. Since then he's looked lethargic with glimpses of effort and a few goals.
I'm sure I read that Jose was going to PSG in the Summer.
Also, Herrera. He was nailed on to be leaving.
And I also read that Sanchez wants to leave.
Next season, we may need to buy 10+ players, so that we have enough to get us through the entire season.
To be honest, it'd be quite weird if France dropped him from the squad just because he hasn't played in the last few games. He still has got significant game time with us this season(1346 minutes vs 1738 minutes by Pogba in PL). If he is as good as we all believe, he should definitely make the French squad. Not doing so would merely indicate to me that they don't rate him as much.
It goes both ways. That's why what Martial does in training was always such a stupid point to bring up as a way of proving himself, especially considering the fact that Jose has always been dishonest with his treatment of the lad.
We can never know what he does in training, so best to leave that as a way of winning his place. That has always been my point in the first place.
I already stated that putting in good performances in a real game is the best opportunity that Martial gets to prove himself and Jose is already denying him that. Jose won't even play him a sub anymore FFS.
Mourinho obviously does not want him to win his place again. Why would he want that? Was he not the one who took it from Martial so unfairly in the first place?
You think Jose would ever want Martial to look better than his signing so that he can be criticized for signing Sanchez?
I’m not going to lose any sleep over it,I mean I could have written that and it would have some weight behind it simply because of the current situation.
He may go in the end and while I’d like him to stay,his form when he’s been given a chance has been poor and we are overloaded on the left side so something will have to give I guess.
He may go in the end and while I’d like him to stay,his form when he’s been given a chance has been poor and we are overloaded on the left side so something will have to give I guess.
France have Coman, martial, fekir, thauvin, dembele, Lemar, mbappe, griezmann, payet and others who are basically competing for a spot on the wings or as the 10. Some went make the squad because you just dont need them. Martial is a terrific prospect, but so is dembele. So is coman. So is Lemar. Mbappe is the most promising young player around and at the highest level currently and performs for France whenever he plays. Griezmann is world class already. They rate him, they just have a crazy amount of options to choose from so would sooner pick players who are playing consistently for their clubs then one who is in and out.
Not too fussed. Think he will join the long list of players who join united with potential who we are happy to move on and don't do much to prove us wrong.
It's been a while since someone left us and I thought we had made a mistake.
It's been a while since someone left us and I thought we had made a mistake.
I hope he stays, but it doesn't seem like he and Mou are a good fit. Unless one of the things you mentioned happens, next year will likely be more of the same regarding his treatment, so I doubt he'll view sticking around as worthwhile.
Absolute drivel - if you are good enough, you are old enough. Lukaku is 24, Bailly about the same, Pogba 23-24 when he came back, Lingard thereabouts and so forth. If anything, the age combination in our squad is pretty decent.
My only worry is it adds to the list of players we have to sign in the summer. We already need quite a few and with him going we'll need another attacking player.
It'll be quite sad when we have to spend 150m to try and replace an overpaid, declining Sanchez 2 years from now under another manager, while Martial will be tearing it up at Barcelona.
i can't understand people in here.
it's says a lot that he's choosing to leave rather than stay and fight for his place ( if the report are true).
he's a big prospect, an excellent player, still inconsistant but excellent in his day but if he prefers to leave have a starting place elsewhere, so be it. that's the first season where there was competition for him and he's leaving. people should be angry against him, not against the manager.
If i had to choose between him and Sanchez, it will be Sanchez all day long. we are in this situation because the previous managers haven't been strong enough in their decision. Jose came and there's no sentiment. you fight for your place or you don't.
Did Herrera ask to leave when he was plaged with injuries and/or not playing ? no, he's fighting for his place. it should be the same thing for everyone.
I would echange him for Dybala or Griezmann if he wants to leave. even though i would prefer him to say.
it's says a lot that he's choosing to leave rather than stay and fight for his place ( if the report are true).
he's a big prospect, an excellent player, still inconsistant but excellent in his day but if he prefers to leave have a starting place elsewhere, so be it. that's the first season where there was competition for him and he's leaving. people should be angry against him, not against the manager.
If i had to choose between him and Sanchez, it will be Sanchez all day long. we are in this situation because the previous managers haven't been strong enough in their decision. Jose came and there's no sentiment. you fight for your place or you don't.
Did Herrera ask to leave when he was plaged with injuries and/or not playing ? no, he's fighting for his place. it should be the same thing for everyone.
I would echange him for Dybala or Griezmann if he wants to leave. even though i would prefer him to say.
I know I am going back, but when we signed Ole I had never heard of him, yet he would come off that bench and be a game changer. Don't bring up age, Ole was playing in the Norwegian League, Martial was at a top side in Monaco. This lad was vaunted to the heavens yet quite often comes on and hides out on the wing and does nothing. Just shows that sometimes potential is just potential and it is up to the player to make the manager sit up take notice.
So far the best post in this thread when it comes to judge Martial overall contribution.
My take on Anthony is similar. Amazing talent but his focus isn’t allways 100%. Probably a win and win situation if we recoup €50-70m to reinvest and he gets more game time in another league.
Despite saying all above I think we should calm down a little bit. I think there’s a good chance he stays. Contract negotiation is a factor to remember.
Good player Martial is but I don't just see what fuss is all about. He is very much replaceable and he doesn't strike me as the type that is really willing to put in the effort to realise his potential.
I may get bashed for this but I don't care if we lose Martial. We will get a better replacement who will not be inconsistent as he is in a lot of matches.
Manchester United can do better
I may get bashed for this but I don't care if we lose Martial. We will get a better replacement who will not be inconsistent as he is in a lot of matches.
Manchester United can do better
He's going to look great in that starting 11 of players Mourinho stupidly got rid of.
We'll probably end up paying about £150 million for him in about 4 years when he's a top player and Mourinho is long gone.
We'll probably end up paying about £150 million for him in about 4 years when he's a top player and Mourinho is long gone.
My sentiments as well. I'd rather he stays and gets utilized, but I wouldn't exactly sob incoherently if we sell him and buy either Dybala or Griezmann. Ultimately, I want to win trophies and whichever players can get us there are the ones I want to wear the shirt.
In terms of money spent he's probably cost us what? Around £30 mill? I reckon we'll get close to that for him, maybe slightly more. It'll be nowhere near the money dons are predicting and no way on earth do we get a straight swap for the likes of Dybala.
It's based on the Agenda people have against Jose and their stupidity. siding with a player as opposed to the club.