Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

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Stack said:
When you measured his intelligence what method did you use?
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By watching him play, defensively his all over the place often chasing shadows all game and giving away fouls. His also not the most technically gifted player.

Obviously I'm talking about a good footballing brain, Mata, Kagawa, Van Persie all possess one Fellaini does not.
 
NMF said:
By watching him play, defensively his all over the place often chasing shadows all game and giving away fouls. His also not the most technically gifted player.

Obviously I'm talking about a good footballing brain, Mata, Kagawa, Van Persie all possess one Fellaini does not.
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Give it a rest mate. For some people hes Messi mk2. LVG will sell him as soon as possible.
 
FIFA has wiped Belgium's 5-1 win against Luxembourg

Must be a Fellaini's fault surely:lol:
 
Stack said:
When you measured his intelligence what method did you use?
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His awareness of space, his alertness when tracking runners and his ability to see anything beyond the simple pass suggest intelligence isn't really his forté. One thing I think he doesn't get much credit for is his passing selection. He is a limited passer in terms of range but he does play some nice, crisp, short passes into feet and generally picks the right man. He lacks the vision to do much beyond that though. And his defensive frailties have been regularly exposed.
 
NMF said:
By watching him play, defensively his all over the place often chasing shadows all game and giving away fouls. His also not the most technically gifted player.

Obviously I'm talking about a good footballing brain, Mata, Kagawa, Van Persie all possess one Fellaini does not.
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But on the flip side Fellaini offers leadership Steel ariel threat in both boxes and a presence. Players bring different things to the party my point is!
 
I thought Fellaini was poor in the air for us last season.

Amongst being poor in other areas this was meant to be his strength.
 
If there is one redeeming quality about the man is that he doesn't hide. His poor performances were there for all to see. He's not one of those guys who has quite games. Give him another season and because of his already mentioned quality, we will know for sure if we don't already know.
 
16 starts in PL and CL, average rating of 7.22.

Several players in the squad performed worse than Fellaini did. Over half the squad have a lower average rating for the season. Several didn't even manage a respectable 7/10 bog standard.
 
JefferiesTube said:
16 starts in PL and CL, average rating of 7.22.

Several players in the squad performed worse than Fellaini did. Over half the squad have a lower average rating for the season. Several didn't even manage a respectable 7/10 bog standard.
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If ever proof were needed that some stats are utterly meaningless then this is it.
 
acnumber9 said:
If ever proof were needed that some stats are utterly meaningless then this is it.
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They don't care if a player has an Afro, they just measure the positive contribution and the negative contribution, without cherry picking the positive or cherry picking the negative.
 
JefferiesTube said:
They don't care if a player has an Afro, they just measure the positive contribution and the negative contribution, without cherry picking the positive or cherry picking the negative.
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Where are those stats taken from if you don't mind me asking ? Squawka ?
 
JefferiesTube said:
They don't care if a player has an Afro, they just measure the positive contribution and the negative contribution, without cherry picking the positive or cherry picking the negative.
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I'd love to know how they measure it then. He was awful. That's obvious to anyone you uses their eyes to measure performance and not a website. Do they take into account how slow he is to do anything? Do they take into account the difficulty of the passes he plays?
 
acnumber9 said:
I'd love to know how they measure it then. He was awful. That's obvious to anyone you uses their eyes to measure performance and not a website. Do they take into account how slow he is to do anything? Do they take into account the difficulty of the passes he plays?
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He WAS awful in some games, a great example would be the 4-1 defeat to City. But, so was Carrick, Ferdinand and Vidic in that game who formed the "magic defensive square". In others games he played very well. The AVERAGE rating considers all games, all positive and all negatives. It does the same for all players.
 
You can use those websites for some stats you can calculate but the scores generated is their own opinion, and they decide what score a header won gets etc.

He was rubbish. There's mitigating circumstances and he's better than he showed. But he was still rubbish.
 
JefferiesTube said:
He WAS awful in some games, a great example would be the 4-1 defeat to City. But, so was Carrick, Ferdinand and Vidic in that game who formed the "magic defensive square". In others games he played very well. The AVERAGE rating considers all games, all positive and all negatives. It does the same for all players.
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But what does it consider to get those scores? It's arbitrary. It doesn't take into account the factors in a game of football that can't be covered by these stats. Until you can tell me how they get these scores then they are just a number that proves nothing.
 
acnumber9 said:
But what does it consider to get those scores? It's arbitrary. It doesn't take into account the factors in a game of football that can't be covered by these stats. Until you can tell me how they get these scores then they are just a number that proves nothing.
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http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

Quite a lot of people would agree that Suarez was the best player in the Premier League, right? Even if you don't, you accept that many would have that opinion?

Last season the 3 players who were nominated for European player of the year matched the top 3 from that site. Stats and opinion were in agreement.
 
JefferiesTube said:
http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...erStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014

Quite a lot of people would agree that Suarez was the best player in the Premier League, right? Even if you don't, you accept that many would have that opinion?

Last season the 3 players who were nominated for European player of the year matched the top 3 from that site. Stats and opinion were in agreement.
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And Martin Skrtel was the best defender in the league last season? You've ruined your own argument I'm afraid by posting that. Pass completion for Fellaini will be high regardless of how difficult the pass he has played. Things like that reward players that take no risks. He would be rewarded for taking a bad touch and making a tackle afterwards. It's bullshit I'm afraid. They're awarding points for goals scored and assists. It would be amazing if the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez etc weren't coming out on top. What does AW mean? If it's headers won then we can see why his rating is what it is.
 
Even Fellaini himself admits he hasn't had a great season, what is there to debate? Forget the stats, it was plain to see. He wasn't total dross, but he didn't play well, along with most of the squad.
 
acnumber9 said:
And Martin Skrtel was the best defender in the league last season? You've ruined your own argument I'm afraid by posting that. Pass completion for Fellaini will be high regardless of how difficult the pass he has played. Things like that reward players that take no risks. He would be rewarded for taking a bad touch and making a tackle afterwards. It's bullshit I'm afraid. They're awarding points for goals scored and assists. It would be amazing if the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez etc weren't coming out on top. What does AW mean? If it's headers won then we can see why his rating is what it is.
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You get scored down for bad touch that results in you losing the ball and you get scored up for making a tackle. So they cancel each other out. If he didn't make the tackle after, he would have a negative against him. I am not making the argument, I am defending the neutral unbiased objective performance analysis. It is not my opinion whether player X was good or bad.
 
JefferiesTube said:
You get scored down for bad touch that results in you losing the ball and you get scored up for making a tackle. So they cancel each other out. If he didn't make the tackle after, he would have a negative against him. I am not making the argument, I am defending the neutral unbiased objective performance analysis. It is not my opinion whether player X was good or bad.
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They're arbitrary and prove nothing. Do you know what AW stands for because it seems like they place great importance on it?
 
acnumber9 said:
They're arbitrary and prove nothing. Do you know what AW stands for because it seems like they place great importance on it?
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Aerial duels. All players are given a positive for duel won and a negative for a duel lost. Vidic scores high for AW because he wins a lot of headers and also has a % of headers won. A defender who is weaker in the air will score lower in that department. Jones has that weakness.
 
JefferiesTube said:
Aerial duels. All players are given a positive for duel won and a negative for a duel lost. Vidic scores high for AW because he wins a lot of headers and also has a % of headers won. A defender who is weaker in the air will score lower in that department. Jones has that weakness.
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Then we know why Fellaini's score is so high. People don't give a shit if their central midfielders can play as a target man. He's not good enough in the areas that actually matter.
 
JefferiesTube said:
Aerial duels. All players are given a positive for duel won and a negative for a duel lost. Vidic scores high for AW because he wins a lot of headers and also has a % of headers won. A defender who is weaker in the air will score lower in that department. Jones has that weakness.
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Stats are useful but without context they lose their value somewhat.
The website you quoted lacks context with its stats. For example, passing stats can sometimes be misleading. Completion rates for passing stats in the final attacking third drop away due to the nature of where the passes are being made relative to teams compressing and defending the crucial areas. So on the face of it a players passing stats may look poor unless they are looked at relative to the context.
Also stats dont tell you what impact a coaches instructions to a player may have been upon their performance. For example if a player is asked to man mark a dangerous player it will most likely have a negative impact on a number of performance stats that are measured so that a month or 2 later when someone is looking at a website such as the one you quoted and see a player has had very few touches of the ball they may interpret that in a negative manner. That player may have done the job his coach asked of him very effectively but its not going to show in the set of stats that website is using.

Maybe Jones percieved weakness in the air is an example of that problem, I can think of a couple of reasons which will mean Jones aerial ability statistically will suffer.
 
Stack said:
Stats are useful but without context they lose their value somewhat.
The website you quoted lacks context with its stats. For example, passing stats can sometimes be misleading. Completion rates for passing stats in the final attacking third drop away due to the nature of where the passes are being made relative to teams compressing and defending the crucial areas. So on the face of it a players passing stats may look poor unless they are looked at relative to the context.
Also stats dont tell you what impact a coaches instructions to a player may have been upon their performance. For example if a player is asked to man mark a dangerous player it will most likely have a negative impact on a number of performance stats that are measured so that a month or 2 later when someone is looking at a website such as the one you quoted and see a player has had very few touches of the ball they may interpret that in a negative manner. That player may have done the job his coach asked of him very effectively but its not going to show in the set of stats that website is using.

Maybe Jones percieved weakness in the air is an example of that problem, I can think of a couple of reasons which will mean Jones aerial ability statistically will suffer.
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I think you get 0.01 for each pass. So if Cleverley makes 50/50 passes he is at 6.50. If he does nothing else in the game, his final rating will be 6.50. You get scored higher for throughballs, creating chances, accurate crosses, accurate long passes, assists. If a player dribbles past a player, then makes a throughball, creating a chance and a goal is scored as a result then that player gets a score of roughly 1.3 just for that one move. That is over twice the score that Cleverley got for his 50/50 passe backwards and sideways.
 
JefferiesTube said:
I think you get 0.01 for each pass. So if Cleverley makes 50/50 passes he is at 6.50. If he does nothing else in the game, his final rating will be 6.50. You get scored higher for throughballs, creating chances, accurate crosses, accurate long passes, assists. If a player dribbles past a player, then makes a throughball, creating a chance and a goal is scored as a result then that player gets a score of roughly 1.3 just for that one move. That is over twice the score that Cleverley got for his 50/50 passe backwards and sideways.
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And again this shows how the stats are flawed. back passes and sideways passes within the context of a piece of play can be very positive things. The stat doesnt show the channel created by the sideways pass, it doesnt show the initial movement after a pass backwards is made which might open up a passing channel.
Its interesting you mention Cleverley because I saw you championing Pearson in another thread. You referred to Cleverley as a negative type of player but had Pearson in a possible next season Utd line up.
Statistically Cleverley makes less back or sideways passes than Pearson, he passes forwards more than Pearson and dribbles forward more than Pearson both in raw numbers and as a ratio or percentages. The area where Pearson "betters" Cleverley is in tackling. If Cleverley is you believe a negative player why would you be championing Pearson?

BTW there is a particular thing Cleverley does which is viewed by coaches as showing up as a player with a positive attitude, do you know what it is? Its a technical attribute and one that is very high on the list of things coaches look for. Stats dont have a way of measuring it.
 
Stack said:
And again this shows how the stats are flawed. back passes and sideways passes within the context of a piece of play can be very positive things. The stat doesnt show the channel created by the sideways pass, it doesnt show the initial movement after a pass backwards is made which might open up a passing channel.
Its interesting you mention Cleverley because I saw you championing Pearson in another thread. You referred to Cleverley as a negative type of player but had Pearson in a possible next season Utd line up.
Statistically Cleverley makes less back or sideways passes than Pearson, he passes forwards more than Pearson and dribbles forward more than Pearson both in raw numbers and as a ratio or percentages. The area where Pearson "betters" Cleverley is in tackling. If Cleverley is you believe a negative player why would you be championing Pearson?

BTW there is a particular thing Cleverley does which is viewed by coaches as showing up as a player with a positive attitude, do you know what it is? Its a technical attribute and one that is very high on the list of things coaches look for. Stats dont have a way of measuring it.
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Me wanting to get rid of our midfield and trying a fresh new midfield of Pearson and Powell, is not me championing Pearson. It is me frustrated at our mediocre negative midfield and wanting to see how 2 new kids do. They succeed great, they fail new signings are needed.

Where do you get stats for Pearson? It would be a surprise and disappointment if Pearson dribbles less than Cleverley, because Cleverley NEVER dribbles with the ball, even when I scream at him to do so?

The Cleverley thing - is it the chuckle bros arms thing he does? to me to me to me to you?
 
JefferiesTube said:
Me wanting to get rid of our midfield and trying a fresh new midfield of Pearson and Powell, is not me championing Pearson. It is me frustrated at our mediocre negative midfield and wanting to see how 2 new kids do. They succeed great, they fail new signings are needed.

Where do you get stats for Pearson? It would be a surprise and disappointment if Pearson dribbles less than Cleverley, because Cleverley NEVER dribbles with the ball, even when I scream at him to do so?

The Cleverley thing - is it the chuckle bros arms thing he does? to me to me to me to you?
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Maybe you should scream louder then.
 
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