I bought that up because of bobbyf saying he only had 1 good season at Everton.
What are the qualities a United DM should have?
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
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I bought that up because of bobbyf saying he only had 1 good season at Everton.
What are the qualities a United DM should have?
For United? He's shown no poise, little work rate, poor touch and a lack of game intelligence.
In fact his best displays in England have been as an attacker. It's in the defensive positions where he looks clueless.
To play the sort of football that'll suit our other players: Be mobile, positionally aware, good at tracking back and efficient on the ball. (I.E. not cumbersome and slow, dragging the tempo down)
Picking out what suits my argument? We can discuss this but do not shy away from the point.
You stated he has had 1 good season in 4. You then disregarded last season because the function he performed wasn't of a defensive midfielder yet you used this in your assessment of 4 seasons.
I didn't mention Kevin Nolan at any point. So I'm not sure why you are addressing an imaginary point, I'm aware he has been mentioned in this thread but he has not been mentioned by me. Then you go on to say "sorry if you don't like it" yet at zero point did I even mentioned Nolan!!
You aren't very good at debating, you cannot reply to my post by discrediting a point made by another poster when it has nothing to do with mine!
My point is this, you assessed Fellaini's 4 seasons and said he had only 1 good season, you went on to discredit last season on the virtue he was not playing defensive midfield yet still included it into the 4 season assessment thus inferring last season was a bad season by the very fact he did not play in his preferred position!
"Said", I used the term "infer" therefore look it up in a dictionary if you are not sure of its meaning. Ironically you are not reading my post properly, either that or you assumed the term "infer" means "said".
empire said:
You are again refusing to acknowledge the point of our discussion. You are talking about things that have nothing to do with the discussion indicating your point was invalid, otherwise you would address it directly.
Oh, you do understand the meaning of infer! However you can't see it though?
bobbyf said:
shamwow said:
(Clearly Shamwow was inferring last season he did well in terms of the function asked of him).
bobbyf said:
shamwow said:
bobbyf said:
You inferred last season wasn't as shamwow put it "pretty good right" because he didn't do what he did from defensive midfield. It is most ridiculous to state he had only 1 good season in 4 yet not assess him last season in relation to his performed function if you are going to include that season in your assessment.
The non-bolded bit has nothing to do with anything I've said so it's random waffle and not addressing the points of discussion.
The bolded bit shows you need to read a little more accurately, this is something you read before the reply:
So either you have not read my post accurately. Or you have interpreted not being a Fellaini fan as the standard of player I want at the club. Bobby logic would suggest because I am a Vidal fan, I do not want him at the club. Because I am not a fan of tiote, I do want him at the club.
bobbyf said:
You asked me to show you videos of several times where he has under performed. I merely posted comments from four years ago that surprised me however such was your dislike of posting a video where he was scoring goals you demanded a video (that doesn't exist) where he has scored for United and where he under performed against City. You automatically assumed with your response I was trying to paint Fellaini is a positive light despite showing a video from 4 years ago!!
You are very bad at debating. Comments such as these have no place in discussion, the fool will resort to insults such as yours. Often when he has no argument left.
You once more miss the point, I posted a video of Fellaini and comments associated with it. I think everybody disagrees with the comments making him out to be the next Vieira or the best defensive midfielder in the league or the greatest Belgium of all time, you were however the only one that got very defensive and started demanding to see videos that didn't exist instead of talking about reasons for the viewpoint so long ago.
Did you see the comments?
It is far more plausible to expect a sane man to post comments, making Fellaini out to be some Patrick Vieira, as him portraying his surprise at the comments as opposed to honestly believing Fellaini has that ability! Furthermore, the video was of only goals! Yet you think it was some kind of endorsement of his ability as the best midfielder in the premier league?
Furthermore you stated to 'back up your argument' but there was no argument!!! It was a random post. You could not see why else I would do that because you seem to be on a crusade to spread hatred towards Fellaini otherwise you would have seen the post for what it was, your judgement is clouded by emotion.
I even stated I am not a Fellaini fan. Bobby logic however, not a Fellaini fan therefore posting video to show how good Fellaini is...
Understand this, when I use the term "Bobby logic", it is not mean't as an insult. It is merely showing the logic you have portrayed, for example:
I made it clear I was not a Fellaini fan prior to this post in response to you.
You knew this yet you stated "if that's the standard of player you want at the club", therefore despite knowing I am not a fan of Fellaini, you thought he was the standard of player I wanted at this club where it should have been obvious that is not my opinion.
I'm basing my enthusiasm off his better games (which yes, were against weaker teams). If that's all he does, well he'll be a great player for 60% of our games. Not £27m worth but that's been done now, his price tag shouldn't mean he can never be a good player for us. I can imagine some people here on their death beds "Son... come closer... Fellaini... 27m... euuuurgh".
He still has to show something in a big game but if you judged our other top players off the big games this season then they wouldn't be United quality either.
Bent scored 24 goals in 2009-2010, Obewingie scored 15 goals in 2010-2011 while Yakubu scored 17 goals in 2011-2012. Yeah average players can score alot of goals especially if they are in great form and are played in the right position and according to their strengths
Fair point although they are all strikers. I'll withdraw my statement of "average players don't score 1 goal every 3 games". I still think he had a good season.
No problem mate, everyone makes mistakes apart from me of course
If you ask me, I don't think that Fellaini is shit. He's actually a decent player whose suits a small/mid EPL side perfectly. The guy is a jack of all trades, he's tall, hardworking, he's a decent finisher, he's got decent technique and he has that nasty streak which is pretty popular in the EPL where refs tend to be more lenient. Moyes hindsight to move him as no 10 was top notch. The guy provided great aerial ability and work rate which is important at a smaller side. On the other hand this new position mitigated his lack of positional discipline and pace.
Unfortunately Fellaini's skills weren't really needed at a top club. As said the guy is a jack of all trades. He's an over average tackler and hardworking player but he simply lack the pace and positional sense to be a quality DM. He's got decent technique but he lacks the quality passing ability to be a playmaker. If a manager needs a DM or a playmaker and is ready to spend good money for one then he simply get a DM or a playmaker and not someone whose best games came as no 10. Its like a club spending 100m on Pirlo or Scholes only to play them as forwards/strikers because originally 'they played in that role' and they 'love to play there'
Ultimately I can see Fellaini settle as a squad player irrespective on whether Moyes stays/leave. The guy can play DM, box to box and no 10 and while he's certainly not Manchester United material, our CM is too in shambles to allow Fellaini to leave. Against the biggest sides he does get exposed but at times he can be useful especially in a 3 men CM when we need to add steel to the side.
Believe me , he is the last person on Earth we would want playing in the no 10 role at this club , when you see that we have Mata, Kagawa and Rooney here. Regarding the 3 man CM, we would only do this against top teams and as we saw against City it didn't work well at all. "Steel" would be the last word to describe it.
Picking out what suits my argument? We can discuss this but do not shy away from the point.
You stated he has had 1 good season in 4. You then disregarded last season because the function he performed wasn't of a defensive midfielder yet you used this in your assessment of 4 seasons.
I didn't mention Kevin Nolan at any point. So I'm not sure why you are addressing an imaginary point, I'm aware he has been mentioned in this thread but he has not been mentioned by me. Then you go on to say "sorry if you don't like it" yet at zero point did I even mentioned Nolan!!
You aren't very good at debating, you cannot reply to my post by discrediting a point made by another poster when it has nothing to do with mine!
My point is this, you assessed Fellaini's 4 seasons and said he had only 1 good season, you went on to discredit last season on the virtue he was not playing defensive midfield yet still included it into the 4 season assessment thus inferring last season was a bad season by the very fact he did not play in his preferred position!
"Said", I used the term "infer" therefore look it up in a dictionary if you are not sure of its meaning. Ironically you are not reading my post properly, either that or you assumed the term "infer" means "said".
You are again refusing to acknowledge the point of our discussion. You are talking about things that have nothing to do with the discussion indicating your point was invalid, otherwise you would address it directly.
Oh, you do understand the meaning of infer! However you can't see it though?
(Clearly Shamwow was inferring last season he did well in terms of the function asked of him).
You inferred last season wasn't as shamwow put it "pretty good right" because he didn't do what he did from defensive midfield. It is most ridiculous to state he had only 1 good season in 4 yet not assess him last season in relation to his performed function if you are going to include that season in your assessment.
The non-bolded bit has nothing to do with anything I've said so it's random waffle and not addressing the points of discussion.
The bolded bit shows you need to read a little more accurately, this is something you read before the reply:
So either you have not read my post accurately. Or you have interpreted not being a Fellaini fan as the standard of player I want at the club. Bobby logic would suggest because I am a Vidal fan, I do not want him at the club. Because I am not a fan of tiote, I do want him at the club.
You asked me to show you videos of several times where he has under performed. I merely posted comments from four years ago that surprised me however such was your dislike of posting a video where he was scoring goals you demanded a video (that doesn't exist) where he has scored for United and where he under performed against City. You automatically assumed with your response I was trying to paint Fellaini is a positive light despite showing a video from 4 years ago!!
You are very bad at debating. Comments such as these have no place in discussion, the fool will resort to insults such as yours. Often when he has no argument left.
You once more miss the point, I posted a video of Fellaini and comments associated with it. I think everybody disagrees with the comments making him out to be the next Vieira or the best defensive midfielder in the league or the greatest Belgium of all time, you were however the only one that got very defensive and started demanding to see videos that didn't exist instead of talking about reasons for the viewpoint so long ago.
Did you see the comments?
It is far more plausible to expect a sane man to post comments, making Fellaini out to be some Patrick Vieira, as him portraying his surprise at the comments as opposed to honestly believing Fellaini has that ability! Furthermore, the video was of only goals! Yet you think it was some kind of endorsement of his ability as the best midfielder in the premier league?
Furthermore you stated to 'back up your argument' but there was no argument!!! It was a random post. You could not see why else I would do that because you seem to be on a crusade to spread hatred towards Fellaini otherwise you would have seen the post for what it was, your judgement is clouded by emotion.
I even stated I am not a Fellaini fan. Bobby logic however, not a Fellaini fan therefore posting video to show how good Fellaini is...
Understand this, when I use the term "Bobby logic", it is not mean't as an insult. It is merely showing the logic you have portrayed, for example:
I made it clear I was not a Fellaini fan prior to this post in response to you.
You knew this yet you stated "if that's the standard of player you want at the club", therefore despite knowing I am not a fan of Fellaini, you thought he was the standard of player I wanted at this club where it should have been obvious that is not my opinion.
You know when they say you couldn't make it up..well you just have.
Again, where did I say he had 1 good season in 4?? DID NOT SAY THAT. Please tell me where I actually said that word for word. And make time for it cos it will probably take you a while.
Re: Nolan, since that post wasn't aimed at you and you neglected to read it properly, then I wouldn't expect you to understand the context of it, cos I already have explained it to you and you still don't get it. So don't bother trying! It's not relevant to what you said.
You're not very good at debating either, since you don't understand what has been said and its context, then you say I have said things I haven't!! Is that 'Empire logic'? Like I said, making it up. Didn't say he had a bad season last season either. Again where did I say this?? Or infer this???
Shamwow or whatever his name is, referred to his scoring record LAST SEASON as being something better than average and not his midfield performances. I pointed out the fact that other average players have the same scoring record. Again you have misunderstood the point stated cos you failed to understand the context. And then you talk about (not) backing up arguments!!
Demanded to see videos? What the hell are you on about? Please tell me where and when I demanded anything. You're really are making this rubbish up, aren't you? Re: 4 year old comments posted on YouTube (and others have pointed out, not really a reliable source of opinion) I merely commented on their validity and relevance, as others have. If you want to take them as gospel then don't let me stop you.
As I said, I haven't 'spread hatred' about anyone. Again, where did I do that? If you cannot tell the difference between not wanting a player at our club for footballing reasons and hating them, you really have misunderstood what has clearly been said and totally misread previous comments.
And if you're not a Fellaini fan, why bother talking about some YT compilation video of some goals he scored from 4 years ago?? Surely you can see it's not really relevant to anything now. And you didn't make it clear if you thought he was the standard of player we want at our club. It wasn't obvious at all. But no surprise since you don't seem to understand what has been said and then you accuse me of saying, doing things I clearly didn't.
Yeah, but if you are only referring to their scoring record (which you did) as 1 in 3 they are identical, so you're moving the goalposts a bit. Maybe he's a better player than Nolan but that's not what you were talking about. And Nolan doesn't play the same role. Plus we have three no. 10s already, why do we need Fellaini up there?
As a DM it's another matter. Fellaini didn't score all his goals there, as you said, when he moved further up the field. We cannot just judge him on how many goals he scored. And versatile means a player is good or even better in more than one position. I'm not saying he's completely crap and ineffective, but as a DM he is not good enough for our team.
You took a quote out of context and missed out the important bit, one good season, in your opinion.
And you could stop trying to rewrite history. When was SAF ever interested in signing Fellaini? I cannot remember him being linked to us once. It's BS. And if it was reported in CaughtOffside, it's about as reliable as chocolate fireguard. Did the club ever bid for an official bid for him before Moyes came along? Nope.
Sorry if you're offended by me just stating the fact of when I joined, which was a mistake on your part for not looking for the date below my name.
You're obviously a Moyes apologist cos you blame this 'capitulation' on the title winning players for his total failure and inability to manage them. Moyes signed Fellaini and Moyes knew him before, so it's the players' fault Moyes cannot get the best of them and Fellaini?
He's an easy example of Moyes' failure cos he is just that. One good season at Everton 4 years ago won't change anything.
This is the full post. Maybe we're just arguing over semantics then.
Also don't take my drunken and somewhat douchey banging on about 1 in 3 too seriously. It was in response to you saying he had 1 good season 4 years ago, I don't seriously think it makes him a good player for us.
Really? It was in the very post you are replying to. Unless you think 1 good season in 4 years is not the same as 1 good season in 4.
Either that is your viewpoint or not. If it is not then you must be of the opinion he has had at least 2 good seasons in 4 and this still contradicts your statement of 1 good season in 4 years.
You constantly try to avoid the point. You clearly inferred Fellaini never had a good season last season because he wasn't a defensive midfielder. And before you ask me to find it, it's in the post you're responding to!
"Probably take you a while"
It was in the post you were replying to!
And don't bother trying to argue semantics, you will look foolish if you try to argue 1 good season in 4 is not the same as one good season at Everton 4 years ago.
You're making less sense with each reply! The sign of a man with no argument.
I'm clearly better than you, your argument is falling to pieces. The defence of your argument rests on the assumption that saying "one good season at Everton 4 years ago" is not the same as "1 good season in 4"
Bobby, find a better defence.
Once more you fail to comprehend the basic point of this discussion. Average players can have good seasons.
Last season Fellaini should be assessed in relation to the function he performed and one could plausibly argue he had a good season.
Somehow you thought the video and comments suggesting Fellaini is a great talent were an attempt to endorse his ability.
Clearly no videos exist of United goals. It was ridiculous for you to even post that, had you not been blinded by your hatred for Fellaini then you would have realised I was not endorsing his ability.
Haha, you didn't reply to my post by commenting on their validity and relevance!
Fellaini is better than you give credit for. As I said, you are blinded by your hate. You don't even see it, your memory wrongly tells you that you commented on the validity and relevance of the youtube comments when in fact you wanted to see videos of his United goals knowing they do not exist so you could discredit him further.
I am not a Fellaini fan and I was not endorsing his ability however you assumed I was.
Again, I'm disappointed I have to repeat myself. I was very surprised on the comments, and I wanted to see what other people thought. Cina offered a good response regarding a thread where they talked about Fellaini from that period.
I didn't make it clear because I didn't state whether I thought he was or was not the standard of player we want at our club! You assumed from my lack of statement I rated him despite posting comments from four years ago that talked as if he is Patrick Vieira!
You are on a crusade against Fellaini therefore instead of commenting on your surprise people thought Fellaini had such potential or laughing at the fact people thought Fellaini could become Vieira, you were clouded by your hatred failing to see the post was not one of endorsing Fellaini. Nobody in their right mind would compare Fellaini to such a world class level.
So you say "it wasn't obvious at all", you think it was more plausible I was endorsing Fellaini's ability by posting comments such as:
Not obvious at all??!!
I don't know who the Fellaini supporters are but I doubt even they think he is going to be comparable to Patrick Vieira one day!
At least you toned down the insults in that post. You're learning
I must say something. I like Caramel, I want a caramel easter egg tomorrow but I'll settle for a creme egg. I don't like chocolate with coconut in, I don't know if they do coconut easter eggs, I don't want to know, I don't want to think about it. For somebody who doesn't like Fellaini, you spend a lot of time talking about him, a lot of time thinking about him, why do you like talking about the things you don't like?
If you're the manager next season, and you can pick 2 players from the current bunch, plus buy 1 extra midfielder...who would you choose? Carrick, Giggs, Cleverly, Anderson, Fletch, Fellaini + 1 New CM
The first thing you notice is that it's not exactly a great bunch! all have obvious weaknesses...but i would have to pick Carrick and Fellaini
I didn't think it was worthy of a new thread, but i hope once DM adds a few more players to the team the structure of the squad will become better. If Fellaini can find his feet and a bit of confidence then he can be a very useful addition to the team.
The first thing you notice is that it's not exactly a great bunch! all have obvious weaknesses...but i would have to pick Carrick and Fellaini
I didn't think it was worthy of a new thread, but i hope once DM adds a few more players to the team the structure of the squad will become better. If Fellaini can find his feet and a bit of confidence then he can be a very useful addition to the team.
I'd go for those 2 as well.
It depends. He does give a different approach to the game then Mata and Kagawa. He's more physical and he's better in air. In some games where the opponents may shown vulnerability to crosses then he could be useful. Regarding your last comment, well, CM is in shambles and it would be unfair to just point the finger at Fellaini.
As I said before I see him a mere squad player and someone should be fired for allowing these deal to happen. However since he's here we have to find a way how to take the best out of him.
I'm unsure he has a future at the club post Moyes.
Say he's currently bricking it.
Say he's currently bricking it.
Yeah, I'm guessing a decent manager will boot him out the door pretty quickly.
Hope he gets the boot. fecking waste of money.
We have to hope Moyes will decide to make him his first signing as manager of West Brom or Newcastle. £30m, ta, Moyesy.
Wouldn't at all be disappointed to see our new manager flog him to West Ham or Newcastle for £12 mil.
Some of the posts in here on the last few pages are mind numbing novels.
I would have serious doubts over his future with us if / when Moyes goes.
I would have serious doubts over his future with us if / when Moyes goes.
Could be the same as Liverpool when Dalglish was sacked, the dross (Carroll, Downing et al.) were shipped out pretty quickly, no matter their cost. Fellaini quite clearly hasn't shown he's good enough so far.
He must be gone as soon as possible regardless of who is in charge next season. Defending his performances this season are as hard as defending his manager's.
It wont be that easy specially if reports of him being at 110k/week are true.
Well, this is awkward.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if he lasted over a season or so, depending on the next manager. Since shipping him may not be easy, some managers would maybe let him stay, but a large number will send him packing as soon as they got here.
Fixed. They really are a wall of text.
We'll probably have to send him out on loan initially, like Liverpool did with Carroll.
Probably would have to subsidise his wages then. Wouldn't have any issue with that tbh, he perfectly sums up the David Moyes era really.
Aye. It would probably have to be a loan first.
Any half decent/top manager would never use this thug. We just have to hope Big Sam comes in with a £15m bid so we can ship him out. Possibly one of the worst signings we have ever, ever made in terms of value for money.
It depends on who the next man is. I still believe he's a good squad player to have. Not his fault Moyes thought it was worth 27mil.
Naah, he's not as bad as some think. And unless we buy 2-3 CMs this season, we should keep him as a squad player.
Ever. The worst signing in our history all things considered.
I really think people are being silly suggesting we sell him. He's only been here for one year, played in a dysfunctional team that was bad all over the pitch, and had to be paired with midfielders who were all out of form this year. We need another season to judge him imo and we are also light in midfield. Giggs will be retiring and Anderson leaving/being injured/fat. Even if we get two CMs, we still need backup and this lad can do the job against a lot of teams.
Moyes going is the beginning of the end for this clown at OT.
Feel bad for saying it but hopefully we can find someone willing to spend a few million for him. I can't see any new manager wanting him. His contract will make it tough, so I think he will stay but as said above, his days are now numbered.
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