Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

[ZDwyr]

His passing is average. He can't pick out a player more than 10 yards away or make a key pass to create a chance. His stats are godawful, he has a high completion percentage because he plays a shitload of safe passes, like Cleverley. Even still, he had the 156th highest completion rate last season worse than any CM on our team including Cleverley. I've seen this guy pass the ball to Mata when he (Mata) was surrounded by two opposition players. He can't carry the ball forward and its almost as if he's scared of it. Scared of being caught out of possession because it happens often with him. Very poor in tight spots, can't get himself out of them to save his life. Fletcher and Carrick are way better at that.

I dare anyone to explain how they think this guy will move us up a level or two, because that's what you expect when you pay 27M for a player's services. He's not here to play it safe, he's supposed to be here to make a difference and add quality. He's only marginally better than Cleverley. Even Kagawa has more of a physical presence than this guy and is better off the ball. Under Moyes United have averaged 73 long balls a game as opposed to 59 last season, dinosaur route one tactics that are supposed to accommodate limited players like Felliani. He was the 14th best tackler for midfielders last season, so he's overrated in that respect too (dembele was higher btw). He was one of the most dispossessed players as well at Everton, only Pienaar lost the ball more times.

In conclusion, we paid for the wrong player and we're paying for it. Moyes will play him to justify his aquisition but he won't take us to greater heights. I give him 2 seasons here max. Another season like this one and he'll be firmly planted on the sidelines, considering we're going for real quality players this summer.

* Facts sourced from squakwa

1. Not really his role in the team.

2. I'd bet he plays more forward passes than Cleverley though.

3. He played further up the pitch last season, not as a true CM, so obviously he'd be giving the ball away more.

4. Aston Villa at home (I think) - ran with the ball and should have been awarded a penalty. West Brom away - Turned his man on the far touchline and ran with the ball.

5. Just not true.

6. See point 3.

In conclusion, we've over paid for a player. This player has been injured for the majority of the season and since returning has performed well against average sides and struggled (like 9 or 10 others) in the games against big opposition. Will obviously need to improve on this and should be given at least a full season and pre-season to do so.

 

[Rood]

Dembele is versatile, can do things with the ball Fellaini can only dream of. Fellaini was only good at one thing at Everton, being a target man who played best with his back to goal. No wonder he's struggling as a proper CM

Fellaini is regularly picked ahead of Dembele for Belgium in MIDFIELD!

 

[Loublaze]

1. Not really his role in the team.

2. I'd bet he plays more forward passes than Cleverley though.

3. He played further up the pitch last season, not as a true CM, so obviously he'd be giving the ball away more.

4. Aston Villa at home (I think) - ran with the ball and should have been awarded a penalty. West Brom away - Turned his man on the far touchline and ran with the ball.

5. Just not true.

6. See point 3.

In conclusion, we've over paid for a player. This player has been injured for the majority of the season and since returning has performed well against average sides and struggled (like 9 or 10 others) in the games against big opposition. Will obviously need to improve on this and should be given at least a full season and pre-season to do so.

1. It doesn't have to be his role per say, he's still incapable of doing it when he has the chance. Some people consider him a 'box to box' midfielder no?
2. This point doesn't make any difference in this argument, both Cleverley are Fellaini are terrible. So that says nothing.
3. He was the second most dispossessed player, other players who played forward gave it up less, btw those stats are not just for Everton, he was one of the worst players at losing the ball in the league, Pienaar is his only teammate that was worse
4. Nice examples against shit teams. Villa are terrible, the true yo yo team of the PL. West Brom were doing well early and then went to shit. I bet you can't find me any examples of him doing these things when it really counts, doing them against top teams. I bet you can't. Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Bayern? Outplayed by better players and out jumped by Lahm for fvcks sake! Phillip Lahm won headers against him!!
5. Explain to me how its not true? Kagawa did an excellent job helping Buttner and Evra track Robben in both legs. Fellaini gets easily beaten by players with moderate skill and then fouls them because its the only way he knows how to stop them. Got bitched by Cisse against Newcastle and his blind supporters screamed foul when it was clear he lacked awareness and a good first touch. Watch the Bayern game again and pay attention to Kagawa's off the ball work rate, even the pundits praised him. I have the whole game and im ready to prove my point if necessary to show his effectiveness.
6. See number three, one of the most highly dispossessed players in the league, playing forward doesn't excuse him. Mata wasn't dispossessed nearly half as many times playing for Chelsea

In conclusion, your conclusion was a bit of a cop out, defend all those points for him and then admit he's been shit. Kudos I guess

Fellaini is regularly picked ahead of Dembele for Belgium in MIDFIELD!

Who gives two shits about Belgium really? Some championship players are heroes for their national teams. What happens in Belgium in internationals has no bearing on Fellainis effectiveness as a premiership player playing for United

 

[Isotope]

Garreth Barry and Scott Parker were regularly picked ahead of Carrick with England.

 

[Rood]

Who gives two shits about Belgium really? Some championship players are heroes for their national teams. What happens in Belgium in internationals has no bearing on Fellainis effectiveness as a premiership player playing for United

Of course it has a bearing - it shows what positions he can play and to what level. Obviously you want to ignore it because the fact he is regularly picked in midfield for a strong (seeded at the World Cup) national team doesnt fit your agenda

Anyway you claim that Dembele is a superior player, yet the manager who knows them both better than you and has a chance to pick either of them picks Fellaini more often than not.

 

[Loublaze]

Of course it has a bearing - it shows what positions he can play and to what level. Obviously you want to ignore it because the fact he is regularly picked in midfield for a strong (seeded at the World Cup) national team doesnt fit your agenda

Anyway you claim that Dembele is a superior player, yet the manager who knows them both better than you and has a chance to pick either of them picks Fellaini more often than not.

Hardly an agenda. I don't care about internationals. Tournaments are great, but how many players bought on tournament hype actually live up to expectations in league play? El Hadgi Diouf? Karel Poborsky? How many internationals are played a year? Fine if you want to factor them in but they have no bearing on anything EPL related. Belgium play a three man midfield, something players like Fellaini and Cleverley thrive on because they can't hide in a 2 man midfield. Defour and Witsel are arguably better players than Fellaini.

On the bold part, again, who cares? Im not arguing with the manager, im debating with you. None of us are experts. If we just went by what the managers do in games then whats the point of these forums? You dont think Managers play favorites? You dont think they get it wrong sometimes? Your boy wont last at United. He wont scale the heights here because its clear as day he's out of his depth at this level. Worst big signing ive seen at this club since I started supporting it

 

[ZDwyr]

1. It doesn't have to be his role per say, he's still incapable of doing it when he has the chance. Some people consider him a 'box to box' midfielder no?
2. This point doesn't make any difference in this argument, both Cleverley are Fellaini are terrible. So that says nothing.
3. He was the second most dispossessed player, other players who played forward gave it up less, btw those stats are not just for Everton, he was one of the worst players at losing the ball in the league, Pienaar is his only teammate that was worse
4. Nice examples against shit teams. Villa are terrible, the true yo yo team of the PL. West Brom were doing well early and then went to shit. I bet you can't find me any examples of him doing these things when it really counts, doing them against top teams. I bet you can't. Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Bayern? Outplayed by better players and out jumped by Lahm for fvcks sake! Phillip Lahm won headers against him!!
5. Explain to me how its not true? Kagawa did an excellent job helping Buttner and Evra track Robben in both legs. Fellaini gets easily beaten by players with moderate skill and then fouls them because its the only way he knows how to stop them. Got bitched by Cisse against Newcastle and his blind supporters screamed foul when it was clear he lacked awareness and a good first touch. Watch the Bayern game again and pay attention to Kagawa's off the ball work rate, even the pundits praised him. I have the whole game and im ready to prove my point if necessary to show his effectiveness.
6. See number three, one of the most highly dispossessed players in the league, playing forward doesn't excuse him. Mata wasn't dispossessed nearly half as many times playing for Chelsea

In conclusion, your conclusion was a bit of a cop out, defend all those points for him and then admit he's been shit. Kudos I guess

1. He isn't incapable of doing it though. Against Newcastle he played a ball through to Hernandez that would have been a key pass if Hernandez scored it. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean he is incapable. Clearly it's Kagawa, Carrick, Rooney and Mata who Moyes wants playing the creative passes.

2. It does make a difference. He plays more forward and progressive passes than Cleverley. So to have a high pass completition rate similar to Cleverley (who plays ALL safe passes) is indicating that he is a better passes than Cleverley.

3. A lot of the time he would have been controlling the ball with his head or chest. It isn't a great statistic but he would have been battling (a lot of the time) up against one or two CBs so it doesn't surprise me that he was dispossessed a lot. The stat would be more concerning if he had played purely CM that season. Compare it to other seasons where he id that then? Is he still the 2nd most dispossessed player?

4. So everything shouldn't count if it was against a poor side? You can't simply dismiss it because of the opposition. I admitted he hasn't done well against the big sides. Neither has Carrick, Evra, Vidic, Rafael, Fletcher, van Perise, and Mata on some occasions. Our entire team has basically been poor against good opposition this year. Fellaini has played good games against good sides before. Just because he is tall doesn't mean he is going to win EVERY header either. It was Alaba who won it anyway, not Lahm.

5. You said that Kagawa has more of a physical presence. I'm not debating the quality of Kagawa's off the ball work. If you think Fellaini has no physical presence though then I suggest you watch our first goal against Bayern and see how focused they were on him from the corner. Or his role against West Ham where he battled well against Carroll.

6. Mata is a better player technically - obviously. His ball retention should be higher. I realise Fellaini is not Zidane or anything.

How is that a cop out? I gave my view on him. I know he hasn't been good in big games. I have seen moments where he has showed value though. He should be given an injury free run to show what he can do. I mean more than a month or two as well. A season with a solid pre-season before he can be fully judged.

 

[Loublaze]

1. He isn't incapable of doing it though. Against Newcastle he played a ball through to Hernandez that would have been a key pass if Hernandez scored it. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean he is incapable. Clearly it's Kagawa, Carrick, Rooney and Mata who Moyes wants playing the creative passes.

2. It does make a difference. He plays more forward and progressive passes than Cleverley. So to have a high pass completition rate similar to Cleverley (who plays ALL safe passes) is indicating that he is a better passes than Cleverley.

3. A lot of the time he would have been controlling the ball with his head or chest. It isn't a great statistic but he would have been battling (a lot of the time) up against one or two CBs so it doesn't surprise me that he was dispossessed a lot. The stat would be more concerning if he had played purely CM that season. Compare it to other seasons where he id that then? Is he still the 2nd most dispossessed player?

4. So everything shouldn't count if it was against a poor side? You can't simply dismiss it because of the opposition. I admitted he hasn't done well against the big sides. Neither has Carrick, Evra, Vidic, Rafael, Fletcher, van Perise, and Mata on some occasions. Our entire team has basically been poor against good opposition this year. Fellaini has played good games against good sides before. Just because he is tall doesn't mean he is going to win EVERY header either. It was Alaba who won it anyway, not Lahm.

5. You said that Kagawa has more of a physical presence. I'm not debating the quality of Kagawa's off the ball work. If you think Fellaini has no physical presence though then I suggest you watch our first goal against Bayern and see how focused they were on him from the corner. Or his role against West Ham where he battled well against Carroll.

6. Mata is a better player technically - obviously. His ball retention should be higher. I realise Fellaini is not Zidane or anything.

How is that a cop out? I gave my view on him. I know he hasn't been good in big games. I have seen moments where he has showed value though. He should be given an injury free run to show what he can do. I mean more than a month or two as well. A season with a solid pre-season before he can be fully judged.

1. He isn't incapable of doing it though. Against Newcastle he played a ball through to Hernandez that would have been a key pass if Hernandez scored it. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean he is incapable. Clearly it's Kagawa, Carrick, Rooney and Mata who Moyes wants playing the creative passes.

2. It does make a difference. He plays more forward and progressive passes than Cleverley. So to have a high pass completition rate similar to Cleverley (who plays ALL safe passes) is indicating that he is a better passes than Cleverley.

3. A lot of the time he would have been controlling the ball with his head or chest. It isn't a great statistic but he would have been battling (a lot of the time) up against one or two CBs so it doesn't surprise me that he was dispossessed a lot. The stat would be more concerning if he had played purely CM that season. Compare it to other seasons where he id that then? Is he still the 2nd most dispossessed player?

4. So everything shouldn't count if it was against a poor side? You can't simply dismiss it because of the opposition. I admitted he hasn't done well against the big sides. Neither has Carrick, Evra, Vidic, Rafael, Fletcher, van Perise, and Mata on some occasions. Our entire team has basically been poor against good opposition this year. Fellaini has played good games against good sides before. Just because he is tall doesn't mean he is going to win EVERY header either. It was Alaba who won it anyway, not Lahm.

5. You said that Kagawa has more of a physical presence. I'm not debating the quality of Kagawa's off the ball work. If you think Fellaini has no physical presence though then I suggest you watch our first goal against Bayern and see how focused they were on him from the corner. Or his role against West Ham where he battled well against Carroll.

6. Mata is a better player technically - obviously. His ball retention should be higher. I realise Fellaini is not Zidane or anything.

How is that a cop out? I gave my view on him. I know he hasn't been good in big games. I have seen moments where he has showed value though. He should be given an injury free run to show what he can do. I mean more than a month or two as well. A season with a solid pre-season before he can be fully judged.

1. Has he done it when it matters? Has he done it against quality opposition and not shit teams?
2. Cleverleys pass completion was still higher than Fellaini's last season. Cleverley was 90.2% and Fellaini was 79.3% Cleverley has made more forward passes than people think
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/02/04/proof-criticism-of-tom-cleverleys-passing-is-flawed/

According to squawka Cleverley's pass completion this season has been 89% to Afro's 88% (basically even)
Cleverley has created 10 chances to Afros 3
Cleverley won 50% of duels to Fellaini's 46%
" shot accuracy is 63 compared to 44% for fro
" average pass length is 17m to fro's 15
Afroman beats Cleverley with more defensive actions (6) average to Cleverleys 3
http://www.squawka.com/players/maro...season-2013/2014#64#all-matches#1-33#by-match
http://www.squawka.com/players/tom-...season-2013/2014#64#all-matches#1-33#by-match

3. He was one of the most dispossessed players period last season. Does it really matter where in the field he plays? Couple that with his ugly number of fouls then it makes him one of the worst players at keeping possession and he's a liability

4. He won 1 header out of 8 against Bayern in the first leg. And two of those challenges were against Lahm. He also lost out to Alaba. I mentioned Lahm because FFS look how tall he is. Its inexcusable. He's not going to win every header but he loses more aerial duels than he wins them. And yes it doesnt matter who the opposition is but my point is he only excels against teams who give him room. Press him and he struggles. He hasn't looked like he fits in when up against good teams, even Henderson and Kelly have bossed him

5. He has physical presence but he doesn't make it count enough because his positioning and awareness are poor, not to mention he fails to track back quick enough and takes leisurely strolls on the pitch. Strutting like he has swag when in fact he's nothing but a slouch.

6. It doesn't Mata (hehe) that Mata or anyone else is more technical. Fellaini's poor retention as it stands is alarmingly bad all on its own for someone in his position. Huddlestone at Hull loses the ball less frequently FFS. Fernandinho and Paulinho signed from foreign leagues and have outperformed Fellaini. Too bad when it comes to the injuries he's faced, but every game he's played in he was deemed match fit and he's sucked the majority of the time. Time doesn't heal mediocrity. It will only expose it more at this level. We're not Everton, or maybe this is what to expect under Moyes. Shit tactics, shit performances and shit signings for shitloads of money for nothing (Europa league status)

 

[Sunny Jim]

Garreth Barry and Scott Parker were regularly picked ahead of Carrick with England.

Gareth Barry is an up-grade on Fellini. I don't know an Everton fan who would want to swap Fellaini for Barry.

Scotty on the other hand...

 

[ZDwyr]

1. Has he done it when it matters? Has he done it against quality opposition and not shit teams?
2. Cleverleys pass completion was still higher than Fellaini's last season. Cleverley was 90.2% and Fellaini was 79.3% Cleverley has made more forward passes than people think
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/02/04/proof-criticism-of-tom-cleverleys-passing-is-flawed/

According to squawka Cleverley's pass completion this season has been 89% to Afro's 88% (basically even)
Cleverley has created 10 chances to Afros 3
Cleverley won 50% of duels to Fellaini's 46%
" shot accuracy is 63 compared to 44% for fro
" average pass length is 17m to fro's 15
Afroman beats Cleverley with more defensive actions (6) average to Cleverleys 3
http://www.squawka.com/players/marouane-fellaini#performance-score#manchester-united-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2013/2014#64#all-matches#1-33#by-match
http://www.squawka.com/players/tom-cleverley#performance-score#manchester-united-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2013/2014#64#all-matches#1-33#by-match

3. He was one of the most dispossessed players period last season. Does it really matter where in the field he plays? Couple that with his ugly number of fouls then it makes him one of the worst players at keeping possession and he's a liability

4. He won 1 header out of 8 against Bayern in the first leg. And two of those challenges were against Lahm. He also lost out to Alaba. I mentioned Lahm because FFS look how tall he is. Its inexcusable. He's not going to win every header but he loses more aerial duels than he wins them. And yes it doesnt matter who the opposition is but my point is he only excels against teams who give him room. Press him and he struggles. He hasn't looked like he fits in when up against good teams, even Henderson and Kelly have bossed him

5. He has physical presence but he doesn't make it count enough because his positioning and awareness are poor, not to mention he fails to track back quick enough and takes leisurely strolls on the pitch. Strutting like he has swag when in fact he's nothing but a slouch.

6. It doesn't Mata (hehe) that Mata or anyone else is more technical. Fellaini's poor retention as it stands is alarmingly bad all on its own for someone in his position. Huddlestone at Hull loses the ball less frequently FFS. Fernandinho and Paulinho signed from foreign leagues and have outperformed Fellaini. Too bad when it comes to the injuries he's faced, but every game he's played in he was deemed match fit and he's sucked the majority of the time. Time doesn't heal mediocrity. It will only expose it more at this level. We're not Everton, or maybe this is what to expect under Moyes. Shit tactics, shit performances and shit signings for shitloads of money for nothing (Europa league status)

1. I honestly do not know. He possibly did for Everton but I don't have the time or energy to go back through the matches and find out. As I said before though, it's not his role. Or, it shouldn't be. His role is to get the ball to the creative players so they can make the key passes. Something I think he can do effectively.

2. You can't disregard the fact that Fellaini played further up the pitch last season. His passing % will be lower because he was in the final third a lot of the time. Surrounded by defenders and midfielders. The chances created does surprise me though. Kudos for Cleverley for that one. The statistics are fine but of course there are numerous variables to take into account. I'm not saying they mean nothing, but quality of opposition has to come into account.

3. Yes. I think his position does matter. This point is moot though because we clearly disagree here.

4. He shouldn't be losing those headers, I agree. I don't think it can be a real issue people have with him though. I think that 9/10 out of ten he will win them. I put it down to being a bad game or lack of confidence. If you press any of our midfielders they will struggle. I said before that he has to do better against good sides, I acknowledge that. I think he can do that though. Having a better performing team around him will do that.

5. He isn't a box-to-box midfielder against good sides. he doesn't have the intelligence with his forward runs. So while you are right in that he has been poor in that respect, I think if he played purely as a DM he would be fine. His positioning isn't as bad as people say. They are highlighting the handful of times it has been poor. He was recording more interceptions than most over a month or so ago though.

6. If you have better technique than you should retain the ball better. So it does matter. Fellaini has had good seasons in the PL as a DM. So while he may have been outperformed this year by some in that position, it's not like he hasn't performed well there in the past. He may have been deemed match fit but it's pretty obvious that he wasn't. So I don't take much relevance from those matches.

 

[Loublaze]

1. I honestly do not know. He possibly did for Everton but I don't have the time or energy to go back through the matches and find out. As I said before though, it's not his role. Or, it shouldn't be. His role is to get the ball to the creative players so they can make the key passes. Something I think he can do effectively.

2. You can't disregard the fact that Fellaini played further up the pitch last season. His passing % will be lower because he was in the final third a lot of the time. Surrounded by defenders and midfielders. The chances created does surprise me though. Kudos for Cleverley for that one. The statistics are fine but of course there are numerous variables to take into account. I'm not saying they mean nothing, but quality of opposition has to come into account.

3. Yes. I think his position does matter. This point is moot though because we clearly disagree here.

4. He shouldn't be losing those headers, I agree. I don't think it can be a real issue people have with him though. I think that 9/10 out of ten he will win them. I put it down to being a bad game or lack of confidence. If you press any of our midfielders they will struggle. I said before that he has to do better against good sides, I acknowledge that. I think he can do that though. Having a better performing team around him will do that.

5. He isn't a box-to-box midfielder against good sides. he doesn't have the intelligence with his forward runs. So while you are right in that he has been poor in that respect, I think if he played purely as a DM he would be fine. His positioning isn't as bad as people say. They are highlighting the handful of times it has been poor. He was recording more interceptions than most over a month or so ago though.

6. If you have better technique than you should retain the ball better. So it does matter. Fellaini has had good seasons in the PL as a DM. So while he may have been outperformed this year by some in that position, it's not like he hasn't performed well there in the past. He may have been deemed match fit but it's pretty obvious that he wasn't. So I don't take much relevance from those matches.

Good debate.

 

[ZDwyr]

Good debate.

Some of my argument was based on possibilities rather than the statistical evidence. I think in a seasons time (provided he stays fit) we'll be able to draw a conclusion on it though. It will be interesting to see.

 

[saivet]

Dembele looks good on the eye, good first touch, great dribbler but he does little else. His passing is somewhat average, he's not exactly strong, not great in the air, poor in front of goal. I don't think he's a bad player, certainly a classier player than Fellaini but I don't think he's effective at all, Fellaini is the better player for me.

 

[Rood]

Hardly an agenda. I don't care about internationals. Tournaments are great, but how many players bought on tournament hype actually live up to expectations in league play? El Hadgi Diouf? Karel Poborsky? How many internationals are played a year? Fine if you want to factor them in but they have no bearing on anything EPL related. Belgium play a three man midfield, something players like Fellaini and Cleverley thrive on because they can't hide in a 2 man midfield. Defour and Witsel are arguably better players than Fellaini.

On the bold part, again, who cares? Im not arguing with the manager, im debating with you. None of us are experts. If we just went by what the managers do in games then whats the point of these forums? You dont think Managers play favorites? You dont think they get it wrong sometimes? Your boy wont last at United. He wont scale the heights here because its clear as day he's out of his depth at this level. Worst big signing ive seen at this club since I started supporting it

You are not looking at the full picture, excluding his international record makes no sense - and this isnt about a player who has had a one off good tournament (and BTW although Poborsky failed at United, he went on to prove he was a top class player elsewhere), it is about a player who is regularly selected to play in midfield for a team that is going to seeded at World Cup. Yet you would have us believe that he is not capable of playing in midfield to any worthwhile level.

I think it is pretty clear that the manager of Belgium is more likely to be an expert on the relative skills of Dembele and Fellaini than you or I - of course you can still give your opinion for discussion but you cant ignore the facts.

Fellaini might not be a success at United but at the moment it is too early to tell, better players have failed and worse ones have succeeded - however your view that he is out of his depth and the worst signing are way OTT. Despite a difficult season with injuries and the whole team on poor form, he has already had some very good performances for us so give him a chance to settle before judging.

 

[Isotope]

Gareth Barry is an up-grade on Fellini. I don't know an Everton fan who would want to swap Fellaini for Barry.

Scotty on the other hand...

He could, but not when compared to Carrick though. The point is, using international calls as a barometer to say that Fellaini is definitely better than Dambele just because Fellaini is preferred by Belgium NT, is a bit flaw argument.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Gareth Barry is an up-grade on Fellini. I don't know an Everton fan who would want to swap Fellaini for Barry.

Scotty on the other hand...

How many Everton fans do you know then?

I'm willing to bet big money that if a swap deal like that was suggested this time last season the vast majority wouldn't have considered it for a moment.

 

[bobbyf]

1. He isn't incapable of doing it though. Against Newcastle he played a ball through to Hernandez that would have been a key pass if Hernandez scored it. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean he is incapable. Clearly it's Kagawa, Carrick, Rooney and Mata who Moyes wants playing the creative passes.

2. It does make a difference. He plays more forward and progressive passes than Cleverley. So to have a high pass completition rate similar to Cleverley (who plays ALL safe passes) is indicating that he is a better passes than Cleverley.

3. A lot of the time he would have been controlling the ball with his head or chest. It isn't a great statistic but he would have been battling (a lot of the time) up against one or two CBs so it doesn't surprise me that he was dispossessed a lot. The stat would be more concerning if he had played purely CM that season. Compare it to other seasons where he id that then? Is he still the 2nd most dispossessed player?

4. So everything shouldn't count if it was against a poor side? You can't simply dismiss it because of the opposition. I admitted he hasn't done well against the big sides. Neither has Carrick, Evra, Vidic, Rafael, Fletcher, van Perise, and Mata on some occasions. Our entire team has basically been poor against good opposition this year. Fellaini has played good games against good sides before. Just because he is tall doesn't mean he is going to win EVERY header either. It was Alaba who won it anyway, not Lahm.

5. You said that Kagawa has more of a physical presence. I'm not debating the quality of Kagawa's off the ball work. If you think Fellaini has no physical presence though then I suggest you watch our first goal against Bayern and see how focused they were on him from the corner. Or his role against West Ham where he battled well against Carroll.

6. Mata is a better player technically - obviously. His ball retention should be higher. I realise Fellaini is not Zidane or anything.

How is that a cop out? I gave my view on him. I know he hasn't been good in big games. I have seen moments where he has showed value though. He should be given an injury free run to show what he can do. I mean more than a month or two as well. A season with a solid pre-season before he can be fully judged.

1. So what type of midfielder is he? Defensive? No, he's crap at that, slow, ineffective, doesn't read the game very well and always gets outplayed. Attacking? No. And any player could make one telling pass against Newcastle, they were awful. He doesn't seem to excel in any position.

2. Both are not up to scratch. We should be aiming a lot higher, but at least Cleverley cost us nothing and he scored a few goals last season.

3. Fellaini is slow and has the mobility of a bus so he is a liability in midfield. Isn't it more worrying that he didn't play CM regularly cos he was playing hoofball when Moyes needed a goal? We should have someone who actually plays there and does it well.

4. In one game you're right, but if we can only beat poor sides all season and fail to take points off big sides home or away, then it is a major concern. Which big games did Fellaini play well in cos I don't remember any? City? No. Lpool? No, outplayed by Henderson and Allen.

5. If you watch Bayern's goal at OT you'll see he was to blame for that, as a defensive midfielder, not picking up runners and just ball watching. And for someone who is supposed to be an aerial threat, he gets outplayed there too.

6. So what is he then? And why does he need a pre-season? He's not new to our league and played against us and all these clubs several times. There's nothing to judge. We saw him at Everton where he was a long ball player and a part time midfielder but not of any real great quality. Just a panic buy cos Moyes failed in the market.

 

[Sunny Jim]

How many Everton fans do you know then?

I'm willing to bet big money that if a swap deal like that was suggested this time last season the vast majority wouldn't have considered it for a moment.

Ironically you posted this some time ago (feck, it was posted in 2011 an it feels like yestarday )

Read more: Gareth Barry is Manchester City's man for big occasions | Mail Online

........ Gareth Barry has settled in at City and is playing really well. I'd go as far as saying that his improvement is one of the more important factors in their progression from a dour and negative team that draws too many games into a ruthless goal-scoring machine.

He still seems to a figure of fun on here, though, for some reason. Granted he struggled for a while after his transfer to City but I think he's become criminally under-rated and is a very good player. Anyone else agree?

IIRC Barry wasn't a regular for City. So yes, a year ago most Everton fans wouldn't have swapped him for Fellaini. I'm talking about current season.

PS
I rember that thread as i was going to start a similar thread. All in all hes a good player, criminally underrated here.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ironically you posted this some time ago (feck, it was posted in 2011 an it feels like yestarday )



IIRC Barry wasn't a regular for City. So yes, a year ago most Everton fans wouldn't have swapped him for Fellaini. I'm talking about current season.

Blimey. I have no memory of that. Inevitable when I post so much bollox on here and have such a bad memory.

I actually think Barry would have made us a much stronger team if he'd been at United for the last few years. Hindsight is a bitch, though.

Re Fellaini, my point is that he was extremely highly rated by Everton fans. Which shows how his poor performances at United are well below what he's capable of.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Blimey. I have no memory of that. Inevitable when I post so much bollox on here and have such a bad memory.

I actually think Barry would have made us a much stronger team if he'd been at United for the last few years. Hindsight is a bitch, though.

Re Fellaini, my point is that he was extremely highly rated by Everton fans. Which shows how his poor performances at United are well below what he's capable of.

i now see what you meant, which is hard to disagree with.
You're spot on re Barry at United too.

 

[ZDwyr]

1. So what type of midfielder is he? Defensive? No, he's crap at that, slow, ineffective, doesn't read the game very well and always gets outplayed. Attacking? No. And any player could make one telling pass against Newcastle, they were awful. He doesn't seem to excel in any position.

2. Both are not up to scratch. We should be aiming a lot higher, but at least Cleverley cost us nothing and he scored a few goals last season.

3. Fellaini is slow and has the mobility of a bus so he is a liability in midfield. Isn't it more worrying that he didn't play CM regularly cos he was playing hoofball when Moyes needed a goal? We should have someone who actually plays there and does it well.

4. In one game you're right, but if we can only beat poor sides all season and fail to take points off big sides home or away, then it is a major concern. Which big games did Fellaini play well in cos I don't remember any? City? No. Lpool? No, outplayed by Henderson and Allen.

5. If you watch Bayern's goal at OT you'll see he was to blame for that, as a defensive midfielder, not picking up runners and just ball watching. And for someone who is supposed to be an aerial threat, he gets outplayed there too.

6. So what is he then? And why does he need a pre-season? He's not new to our league and played against us and all these clubs several times. There's nothing to judge. We saw him at Everton where he was a long ball player and a part time midfielder but not of any real great quality. Just a panic buy cos Moyes failed in the market.

1. He's a defensive midfielder. Of course putting in a poor performance against City, Liverpool and Bayern automatically means he is useless and shouldn't be anywhere near our squad. I think he reads the play just fine.

2. Cleverley has scored one goal, hasn't he? Not a few. I don't think you can say he's cost us nothing either. His poor peformances (along with others) has cost us points.

3. He's slow. If you take out the amount of forward runs he makes as a box-to-box CM though I think he'd have the energy and concentration to play the DM role adequately. Instead he's running large amounts of distance that isn't really contributing in an attacking sense and doesn't help his defensive ability. I'm not concerned about that either. Moyes played him there because it made the team most effective. They lacked a threat in the final third and so Fellaini became that. Doesn't mean he can't play in CM. Which he has proven he can do at Everton anyway.

4. All the games are worth 3 points. People shouldn't disregard his performances against the lesser sides. They can be difficult to get points off at time and a strong squad is required to win a title. Fellaini can be a part of that squad, maybe not necessarily as a starting 11 player. I admitted before that he needs to improve his performances against the big sides. So does everyone else though.

5. He was. He isn't the first player to ever make a mistake though. Like i said before, if he played purely as a defensive DM I think he'd improve in that respect anyway. He doesn't get outplayed in the air either. People have latched onto this Bayern match, where he lost more headers than he should, and have started saying he isn't any good in the air. Of course he is. Look at the way he competed with Carroll at West Ham. He probably didn't win more headers but the fact he was competing with him means he broke even. I've seen him win numerous flick ons from DDG's kicks too.

6. He's a DM. He needs a pre-season to fully settle in at the club. Get more comfortable with his teammates. Play without injury. Get more comfortable back in the CM role as he hasn't played there in a decent amount of time. He has quality. He plays for Belgium, and plays quite well for them too. But of course that is just because he is useless and their manager has no idea either.

 

[bobbyf]

1. He's a defensive midfielder. Of course putting in a poor performance against City, Liverpool and Bayern automatically means he is useless and shouldn't be anywhere near our squad. I think he reads the play just fine.

2. Cleverley has scored one goal, hasn't he? Not a few. I don't think you can say he's cost us nothing either. His poor peformances (along with others) has cost us points.

3. He's slow. If you take out the amount of forward runs he makes as a box-to-box CM though I think he'd have the energy and concentration to play the DM role adequately. Instead he's running large amounts of distance that isn't really contributing in an attacking sense and doesn't help his defensive ability. I'm not concerned about that either. Moyes played him there because it made the team most effective. They lacked a threat in the final third and so Fellaini became that. Doesn't mean he can't play in CM. Which he has proven he can do at Everton anyway.

4. All the games are worth 3 points. People shouldn't disregard his performances against the lesser sides. They can be difficult to get points off at time and a strong squad is required to win a title. Fellaini can be a part of that squad, maybe not necessarily as a starting 11 player. I admitted before that he needs to improve his performances against the big sides. So does everyone else though.

5. He was. He isn't the first player to ever make a mistake though. Like i said before, if he played purely as a defensive DM I think he'd improve in that respect anyway. He doesn't get outplayed in the air either. People have latched onto this Bayern match, where he lost more headers than he should, and have started saying he isn't any good in the air. Of course he is. Look at the way he competed with Carroll at West Ham. He probably didn't win more headers but the fact he was competing with him means he broke even. I've seen him win numerous flick ons from DDG's kicks too.

6. He's a DM. He needs a pre-season to fully settle in at the club. Get more comfortable with his teammates. Play without injury. Get more comfortable back in the CM role as he hasn't played there in a decent amount of time. He has quality. He plays for Belgium, and plays quite well for them too. But of course that is just because he is useless and their manager has no idea either.

1. And not a very good one. Weren't many clubs after his signature either or trying to outbid Moyes last summer. Besides being a total liability, he isn't any improvement on what we already had, probably worse. Your expectations must be very low if you think he can do anything for us. He gets outplayed more than he dominates a game.

2. Read what I said, which was Cleverley scoring goals last season, not this. And Fellaini's poor performances haven't cost us points?? So they are both bad.

3. But I am concerned that a slow, very overpriced, below average excuse for a midfielder loses virtually every battle, even against mid-table clubs. Saw him at Everton where he wasn't anything special in CM. Again, why are we buying average overpriced players in such a vital position?

4. So we paid £27m for a squad player? Shouldn't have bothered. Fellaini is Moyes' signing so they already know each other, whereas our players have to play under a new, incompetent manager who wants to change the way they play and has failed miserably.

5. I've seen him lose in the air in a lot of his games, not just one. You mention Carroll, but that was only one game too. And we're a route one hoofball team now?? Please. Is that what has brought us so much success or is it from playing football?

6. Like I said, not a very good one. If he was, he would be playing there all the time. Instead he's just a below average utility player at best. And Belgium have a 'golden generation' (where have we heard that before?), who show promise but haven't done anything yet and Fellaini has done quite well, as you said, but not outstanding. We should be trying to sign much better, especially in such a vital position.

He's played CM for Everton, Liege and Belgium but he needs a year to get used to our players? That's just an excuse. He's been playing in our league for over 3 years under Moyes and he needs a pre-season? What for? Lots of players were signed last summer, some from abroad, and they have settled in to their clubs. And you would think his former manager, who he nows plays for, could get more from him. But no. So, they are both useless and do not improve our team.

 

[Eugenius]

The most damning part about everything is how little positive that even his defenders in this thread can even muster to say about him. Being better than Cleverley who has zero confidence, winning flick ons from goal kicks, making a forward pass, adding steel...

Our big issues in CM in order of priority were:
1) Inability to keep the ball under high pressure
2) Lack of mobility/genuine recovery pace/ball carrying
3) Lack of creativity

Can someone explain to what extent Fellaini addresses these? We can't afford to chuck £30m on a player to be a squad player in CM and I don't see anything in him that even if he does raise his level, is going to add anything that we need.

 

[Empire]

Why do I see him on the left flank so much?

It's as if Moyes is using him as some kind of wide left attacking midfielder.

 

[Shamwow]

Why do I see him on the left flank so much?

It's as if Moyes is using him as some kind of wide left attacking midfielder.

He's meant to cover the fullbacks as far as I can tell. He spends way more time on the right anyway I reckon.

 

[Shamwow]

The most damning part about everything is how little positive that even his defenders in this thread can even muster to say about him. Being better than Cleverley who has zero confidence, winning flick ons from goal kicks, making a forward pass, adding steel...

Our big issues in CM in order of priority were:
1) Inability to keep the ball under high pressure
2) Lack of mobility/genuine recovery pace/ball carrying
3) Lack of creativity

Can someone explain to what extent Fellaini addresses these? We can't afford to chuck £30m on a player to be a squad player in CM and I don't see anything in him that even if he does raise his level, is going to add anything that we need.

He's not our saviour by any means but he's much better than a lot make out.

I think I've ended up defending him more than I would normally to add a bit of balance because some people are just going way over the top with the criticism and even pathetically seem to enjoy taking the mick out their own player on a repeated and unfair basis.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

He's meant to cover the fullbacks as far as I can tell. He spends way more time on the right anyway I reckon.

Ye, I've noticed this too. I've also noticed that Cleverley does the same thing.

 

[RuudTom83]

It's a shame that a players transfer fee becomes as equally important as their performances on the pitch these days.

Fellaini had no control over what Manchester United decided to pay for his services, and the fans made no financial contribution to the deal either...so why not just accept the fee and stop dragging it up every time he kicks a ball.

Yes! he has been average at best this season, but who hasn't? most of the squad has been well below the standards we know they are capable off.

 

[Shamwow]

It's a shame that a players transfer fee becomes as equally important as their performances on the pitch theses days.

Fellaini had no control over what Manchester United decided to pay for his services, and the fans made no financial contribution to the deal either...so why not just accept the fee and stop dragging it up every time he kicks a ball.

Yes! he has been average at best this season, but who hasn't? most of the squad has been well below the standards we know they are capable off.

Agree with you but might as well pre-empt what people will say to this.

1) We fans totally do pay for him
2) The squad has been below standards we know they are capable of. MOOOOOOOOOOOOYES. We know Fellaini isn't capable of any better because he's a conference level footballer
3) He looks a silly

 

[Eugenius]

It's a shame that a players transfer fee becomes as equally important as their performances on the pitch these days.

Fellaini had no control over what Manchester United decided to pay for his services, and the fans made no financial contribution to the deal either...so why not just accept the fee and stop dragging it up every time he kicks a ball.

Yes! he has been average at best this season, but who hasn't? most of the squad has been well below the standards we know they are capable off.

This isn't something just aimed at Fellaini, of course transfer fees are an important part in the equation of judging a player. You need some sort of benchmark to judge a player and the transfer fee indicates what role that player is expected to play in the squad and the level of quality you'd expect from them compared to other players going for that amount of money. Compare the transfer fees and expectations that we placed on De Gea (£18m) and Lindegaard (£4m) for example. And then there's the obvious element that if you spend £30m on the wrong player, that £30m does not reappear again. The club has finite cash reserves and I doubt we're going to take on extra debt to fund new players.

Considering that we were stacked in CM at the time with Anderson, Giggs, Cleverley, Carrick, Fletcher, Jones and Powell on the fringes, yet without much top class quality, you would want a CM who was a comfortably level better than what we already had and for £27m you would expect that. I'm not sure Fellaini is even as good as Fletcher on the basis of what we've seen so far and I don't need to point out how out of his depth he has looked in the big games - not poor, but out of his depth. I think he'll end up being a James Milner signing in terms of the role he plays for the team and his relative cost.

RVP was a contentious signing given he was 29, with a year left on his contract and cost us £24m. Yet no-one mentions his transfer any more. Not at all. Even Gareth Bale people have forgotten he cost eighty-fecking-five million. £85m! The fact that Fellaini's transfer fee is still mentioned so frequently tells you a lot about his performances.

 

[bobbyf]

It's a shame that a players transfer fee becomes as equally important as their performances on the pitch these days.

Fellaini had no control over what Manchester United decided to pay for his services, and the fans made no financial contribution to the deal either...so why not just accept the fee and stop dragging it up every time he kicks a ball.

Yes! he has been average at best this season, but who hasn't? most of the squad has been well below the standards we know they are capable off.

But Fellaini is Moyes' signing from his previous club so they (should) already know each other. He should also be trying to impress more than anyone so what's his excuse? What is he capable of? Maybe average at best is just that. We've known for ages we need midfielders and was Fellaini ever on our radar?

 

[Crashoutcassius]

We can't afford to chuck £30m on a player to be a squad player in CM

says who? this is the kind of money our competitors are throwing out for squad players? and, more to the point, we've actually just done it, so how are you coming to this conclusion?

 

[bobbyf]

says who? this is the kind of money our competitors are throwing out for squad players? and, more to the point, we've actually just done it, so how are you coming to this conclusion?

Maybe he means we cannot afford to waste £30m on another average midfield squad player.

 

[kouroux]

It's been a while since we saw his big afro play I kinda miss it

 

[Eugenius]

says who? this is the kind of money our competitors are throwing out for squad players? and, more to the point, we've actually just done it, so how are you coming to this conclusion?

Erm says common sense? You do realise there are other areas of the first team squad that we need to strengthen and we don't have an unlimited amount of money. Why would you think it's wise to spend £30m on someone who is essentially just an extra body in CM when we have 6 senior players on the book in that position. Just because City and Chelsea are spending stupid money on players doesn't mean we have to do it for the sake of it (and Fellaini cost more than Toure, Ramires, Matic, Silva, Oscar etc)

 

[Empire]

Just saw a video of his goals in 2010:



And then read the comments:

pity he's out for the season

god damn he was good yesterday against man city as defensive mid. It must been a great experience for fellaini being attacker but good they found out his real position in the team.

He's a great player but has such a stupid haircut! lol

best defensive midfielder in the prem alongside with darren fletcher.

did u see his turn against city pure class doesnt matter what age u are

1 of the greatest belgiums and 1 of the uglyest belgiums in the world.

gonna be the best thing in the prem since vieria in that position!

 

[bobbyf]

Just saw a video of his goals in 2010:



And then read the comments:

Wow, what has he been doing for the past 4 years then? Not surpassed Vieira or been the best DM in the league, that's for sure.

Any videos of his Utd goals? Or how he was so poor against City twice this season?

 

[bosnian_red]

Just saw a video of his goals in 2010:



And then read the comments:

Quoting youtube comments is definitely a good way to look at things, those people are always reasonable with what they say.

 

[bobbyf]

Funny that we have been crying out for a good CM for years now. Can't remember Fellaini's name ever being mentioned.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Funny that we have been crying out for a good CM for years now. Can't remember Fellaini's name ever being mentioned.

you obviously haven't been around the Caf long enough, then.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/fellaini.290796/page-2