Glad he hasn't travelled.
Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Norwich-sacking-good-thing-Wes-Hoolahan.html
Worst disciplinary record in the league. Most fouls
Worst disciplinary record in the league. Most fouls
Point is people have seen Fellaini for over 5 years now. It's not like he just landed in the PL this season. Most on here who are critical of him never rated him even before his move because they saw his best over the last 5 years was not good enough for United. And nothing he has done this season has abated that feeling.
Did you read it? Yaya Toure didn't even play for Man City then.
The article is a long piece on how he can head and tackle.
You are right - my mistake!
and the article is more about how well he can play a DM role - Im still not sure whether that or a more box to box is his best role. I suppose it depends on who he is partnered with
Hang on. You miss the point completely, my post was about his footballing ability not just this season but previously too.
I have made quite clear he has under performed this season for a club at the most elite level, as have done many of our players, but to say he is no better than blokes you play football with is utter nonsense.
And it is logical what I said, you probably misunderstood therefore I will say it again:
This is a question of footballing ability. I have stated Belgium picking him in the past means either Belgium's midfield is league 2 level and so his footballing ability is league two level alternatively Belgium's midfield is above league 2 level and Fellaini's ability too is above league two level. I am not talking only of this season's performances but his actual ability as a footballer here.
It could be so you think Fellaini has under performed this season but otherwise he is a very good player as you are yet to comment on his footballing ability. However, for you to think it is at league 2 level then you must also assume Belgium's midfield is that level also.
By this logic Man United's overall performance this season has been around league 2 also! Because Fellaini has not been that much worse than many others when pressed. You see, in many games United players this season have not showcased an ability to pass the ball to the person next to them, they instead boot it long and lose it when pressured.
Had more United players passed the ball to a free man as opposed to booting it up field or putting in a futile cross without even looking to see who is free, then they very well may have done better.
The video also was his debut and people have commented how poor his start was to his United career. That was his very first game, it wasn't a great performance but I would say it's quite evident as a player he is above league 2 standard.
What is the famed pace of the premier league? Quantify this and compare it to the pace of other leagues so I can better understand what you are on about here.
If the game is played at any sort of pace then most of our players this season were closed down and they also look like players that don't belong at the most elite level. Why is it that Fellaini is the only one who has struggled when pressed yet all the other players get a free pass? That's hater territory right there; United as a team have struggled in possession of the ball when they have been pressured.
We are not talking about whether he belongs at the most elite level of football but instead you are defending your argument he is league 2 standard and I am disputing it.
Also to judge a man on his first season at United would be unfair. Evra or Vidic, even De Gea were not exactly brilliant in their first season, therefore one must assess Fellaini as a footballer and that involves understanding his performance for Everton and Belgium.
By your logic, under performing in the first season at a new club should result in being sold.
Again, you seem to be deviating from your argument that he is league 2 standard. Now you are comparing him to other premier league starting midfielders, are you accepting he is in fact better than league 2 and you were completely wrong?
I'm not even a supporter of Fellaini, I don't know how he will perform in the future, however I do want him to succeed as I do all of our players. That said, what you stated was wrong, insulting and disrespectful to a player of Manchester United Football Club, let me quote you:
You are a hater of at least one Manchester United player. There are possibly others too so I'm not quite sure why you come on to a man united forum to hate on one of their players. I think you owe Fellaini an apology.
How much do you know about Belgian football?
There isn't a plethora of midfielders to choose from there. In fact most midfielders who play in Belgium who are actually Belgian are probably at championship level at best. Belgian football is full of non Belgians, so it's not as though they have many to choose from for their national team. Anyone who plays abroad in a top league is bascially guaranteed to start for the national team. This is their supposed golden generation too and we know how often they come around.
Danny Mills, Nicky Butt and Emile Heskey played for an English team, consistently, that had Paul Scholes, Allan Shearer and David Beckham, it didn't mean there were as good as the latter trio then nor does it appear as such in any team now . Fellaini is a £27m midfield player but the mere fact that comparisons of him and Phil Jones in midfield generate legitimate debate says it all really .
Hang on. You miss the point completely, my post was about his footballing ability not just this season but previously too.
I have made quite clear he has under performed this season for a club at the most elite level, as have done many of our players, but to say he is no better than blokes you play football with is utter nonsense.
And it is logical what I said, you probably misunderstood therefore I will say it again:
This is a question of footballing ability. I have stated Belgium picking him in the past means either Belgium's midfield is league 2 level and so his footballing ability is league two level alternatively Belgium's midfield is above league 2 level and Fellaini's ability too is above league two level. I am not talking only of this season's performances but his actual ability as a footballer here.
It could be so you think Fellaini has under performed this season but otherwise he is a very good player as you are yet to comment on his footballing ability. However, for you to think it is at league 2 level then you must also assume Belgium's midfield is that level also.
By this logic Man United's overall performance this season has been around league 2 also! Because Fellaini has not been that much worse than many others when pressed. You see, in many games United players this season have not showcased an ability to pass the ball to the person next to them, they instead boot it long and lose it when pressured.
Had more United players passed the ball to a free man as opposed to booting it up field or putting in a futile cross without even looking to see who is free, then they very well may have done better.
The video also was his debut and people have commented how poor his start was to his United career. That was his very first game, it wasn't a great performance but I would say it's quite evident as a player he is above league 2 standard.
What is the famed pace of the premier league? Quantify this and compare it to the pace of other leagues so I can better understand what you are on about here.
If the game is played at any sort of pace then most of our players this season were closed down and they also look like players that don't belong at the most elite level. Why is it that Fellaini is the only one who has struggled when pressed yet all the other players get a free pass? That's hater territory right there; United as a team have struggled in possession of the ball when they have been pressured.
We are not talking about whether he belongs at the most elite level of football but instead you are defending your argument he is league 2 standard and I am disputing it.
Also to judge a man on his first season at United would be unfair. Evra or Vidic, even De Gea were not exactly brilliant in their first season, therefore one must assess Fellaini as a footballer and that involves understanding his performance for Everton and Belgium.
By your logic, under performing in the first season at a new club should result in being sold.
Again, you seem to be deviating from your argument that he is league 2 standard. Now you are comparing him to other premier league starting midfielders, are you accepting he is in fact better than league 2 and you were completely wrong?
I'm not even a supporter of Fellaini, I don't know how he will perform in the future, however I do want him to succeed as I do all of our players. That said, what you stated was wrong, insulting and disrespectful to a player of Manchester United Football Club, let me quote you:
You are a hater of at least one Manchester United player. There are possibly others too so I'm not quite sure why you come on to a man united forum to hate on one of their players. I think you owe Fellaini an apology.
You continually referring to me as a hater just makes you sound like the emotional or irrational one. There were huge debates as to whether Fellaini, even on his Everton form, was good enough for us.
Judging his performances this season, which is generally what I've commented on in my recent posts, my own assessment has been that a League 1 or 2 midfielder could probably replicate most of them. As for you wondering why I keep referencing Marouane Fellaini looking useless as opposed to say, Ashley Young, who has also looked useless, a clue would be to have a look at the thread we are in.
As for him playing for Belgium, again, that is no mitigation to how he has performed at United for me. If I see a player performing terribly with my eyes, then see him picked for his country, that changes nothing to me. That just says to me that they shouldn't be picking him, but do. Or have no one better. I don't 'hate' Fellaini, and anyone who insists on claiming such is being incredibly childish. It is a childish way to deviate from the points and simply say, 'you don't rate him, you must obviously hate him then'. It's a ridiculous argument. If you read other posts on him, you will see that many call him names, 'toilet brush' etc. I have criticised his performances, which you seem to think are not worthy of being criticised or something.
I have seen very little from Fellaini so far to show he is any better than O'Shea when he played midfield for us. And by very little, I mean 'nothing'. Your mitigation for this seems to be the fact that he is a Belgium international. Again, I don't really care, he doesn't play for Belgium at 3pm on a Saturday. The manner in which he has performed at 3pm on a Saturday, is, in my honest opinion, unacceptable. You seem to be excusing him on the basis of how you believe he will perform in future. I am criticising how he is performing now. If and when he does go on to prove that him performing terribly was down to the fact that this is his 'first season' or 'he had an injury' or whatever excuse we want to make for an inability to look a competent PL midfielder, then my comments on his performances will change. Not before though.
As for none of our other players being able to 'pass the ball to the person next to them either', that isn't even true anyway. My point with Fellaini, is that he can only manage this when he is under no pressure at all and has loads of space. I propose to you that a League 2 midfielder is also capable of this (as are some people I play with), you seem to disagree, fair enough. I also said, that from my observation, when the game is quicker than this and pressure is applied, he has failed pretty much everytime.
He would be a laughing stock by all on here, I suspect yourself included, if he was turning in such performances for a rival. However, because as you pointed out, he is a United player, various mitigation is being suggested. If a players' performances are poor, I will say so, whether he plays for United or not. I'm not saying it to him, and who would I be deceiving by saying it has been 'okay' if that is not what I think?
If a League 2 midfielder played for us against Bayern Munich, I would pretty much expect him to look as out of place as Fellaini did. But for some reason, I should not say so.
As for this silly accusation of me specifically 'hating Fellaini' because other players have struggled (mostly ot a lesser extent), that would make sense if I did not also criticise other poor performing players in their own threads.
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Any chance you can make a video of how shockingly rubbish he was last night? The points i was trying to make 2 days ago were completely showcased by him last night.
This happened about 3 times in the openning 20 mins last night with Carrick. But i dont expect anyone to jump on his back because we didnt sign Carrick from Everton.
Fickle.
I'm a Fellaini fan, but this is wrong. People were onto Carrick about him being dispossessed. I saw a few posts about it.
I haven't seen any, but taking your word for it. i withdraw the comment lol
He had 3 or 4 good, promising games after his injury. Now he went back to his old shit form where he just fouls people. He should be our 4th or 5th choice midfielder (if we had a proper midfield)
Thank feck he didn't play yesterday because of that we've dominated Bayern's midfield.
He wouldn't have helped one iota last night anyway.
Or is he one of the players who become world class because they are injured?
was invisible last night, didnt do anything of note. I guess that's enough for many.
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We didn't have a game plan as far as attacking is concerned, with Fellaini however we would have hoofed the ball even more and would have completely looked like Stoke. Thank God he didn't play. This way at least Kagawa could show AGAIN what he can do!
Fellaini is shit. Deal with it. Carrick has proved he can produce for us. I'll keep criticising his useless displays until he actually steps up when it counts and justifies his signing
Not suggesting that, rather laughing off all the shit he's got prior to the match with people being happy he's injured because he's all elbows and other shit cliches.
You could say we've played with no midfield yesterday, whether it would've changed with him on the pitch we'll never know, but it would be nice to have him as an option on the bench atleast.
So you are supporting the argument Fellaini is at league 2 level, in terms of quality?
I merely stated in response to a poster who suggested Fellaini to be league 2 level that Belgium choosing him last season suggests either Belgium's midfield is at league 2 standard or Fellaini is better than league 2 standard.
I know that Belgium players are above league two level.
After the one or two decent players in the national team, no they are not.
If 3 or 4 players get injured, the Belgian national team suddenly looks very average.
Believe me, I watched a lot of Belgian football last year. The quality is abysmal in general.
There was plenty of mention of Carrick's constant loss of possession in the matchday thread, so fair enough if you weren't following that thread. Probably hasn't been picked up on postmatch because of the whirlwind 2nd half and lots of blame being pinned on Evra.
Our midfield was bad yesterday especially Fletcher. But it was better than when we had Fellaini last week. I will probably need therapy to get over that 1st half performance from Fellaini. He is the club's biggest (literally and figuratively) ever waste of money. If we don't get a top class midfielder I'll never forgive Moyes.
Evidently from my posts I am not emotional especially considering I have clearly stated I am not a supporter of Fellaini. Therefore I'm not sure why you think I sound emotional, also you think that post was irrational? May god help you if that's what you consider irrational.
Again, this is not a debate on whether Fellaini is good enough for us. This is a debate on your statement he is league two level at best but probably not better than a few random blokes you have played football with. I'm not a fan of Fellaini however, you suggesting he is no better than blokes you play football with is one of the most ridiculous statements on here.
So stop talking about whether he is good enough for us, you seem to think he is probably not better than random blokes you play football with. Let's discuss this statement of yours.
So from random blokes you play football with, to then being league 2 level, now you think he is performing at league 1 level? The next post he will be performing at championship level right?
Your main criticism of him is how he responds when pressured in possession of the ball however Cleverley or Carrick have struggled also this season, actually the entire United team are no different therefore it's a wonder how they are even 7th when many players have struggled when pressured! They should be relegated to league 2 right?
You now are inferring Belgium's midfield are no better than league 2 standard or they have a bad coach!!
Actually you deviate from the very point we are discussing and that is Fellaini to be no better than random blokes you play football with. If you are not a hater then it is possible you're delusional. This is not mean't as an insult but genuine observation, if you honestly believe Fellaini is at the level you suggested then you need to see a psychiatrist, asap.
Also, I didn't deviate from the points through childish logic. I actually provided a long post and detailed reasoning for why I think you are wrong however as we have discussion, there might be psychological problems that resulted you in misinterpreting a detailed post with sound reasoning to instead be a childish post with no reasoning whatsoever.
Now O'shea for United was no better than the random players you played football with? No better than a league 2 footballer?
I am merely defending him because your opinion he and now O'shea and even the Belgium national team are league 2 standard at best but probably no better than the random blokes you play football with and I think this is a most ridiculous to statement.
So Fellaini's ability to pass the ball is the only measure of his performance for you?
You need to watch football as a whole.
If you are willing to believe Fellaini, O'Shea and Belgium international team midfield are probably no better than random blokes you play football with and certainly not any better than league 2 standard then I can also understand why you deny United have generally struggled this season in possession of the ball when pressed.
Even if he were a laughing stock I would not be stating his performances are at best league 2 level but probably worse than players I play football with.
I respect premier league footballers for the work and devotion they have shown, I'm not going to insult them by comparing their level of performance to those I play football with.
Fletcher, Rooney and to an extent Carrick last night, were they performing at league 2 level? They also looked out of place.
You once more don't seem to understand what I am saying. Let's find your posts again:
I'm saying you are either a hater or delusional to have those opinions.
I honestly can't believe you are fiercely defending your opinion either, however I am intrigued to see your next response on why Fellaini is probably worse than a few random blokes you have played with, nor performing at a level above league 2.
Also, as we have established, you are now inferring O'Shea (United version) and the Belgium midfield are at Fellaini's league 2 (at best) level but probably not better than a few random blokes you have played football with.
The poster replied that Fellaini is probably no better than a few random blokes he plays football with, and at best league 2 level.
I have seen him chosen for Belgium with Dembele on the bench. I have seen him chosen in quite a lot of games. He is not a league 2 level footballer, I'm not sure how many league 2 footballers get 48 caps for Belgium.
To suggest he is no better than a few random blokes that other poster plays football with and at best league 2 level is quite ridiculous. I am not a fan of his but merely pointing out he is better than league 2 standard.
You yourself said much of the Belgium league is championship level so you can't now be suggesting it is league 2 standard...
Fellaini is a premiership level footballer and if league 2 level footballers are as good as him then I doubt he would have the amount of caps he does for Belgium.
We are also not talking about Fellaini being chosen in an injury hit Belgium side but in a strong one.
I think you should meet up with that other poster and watch him play football with others. You seem to think you'll see a better standard of football than Fellaini has to offer, maybe they could represent England if they're that good?
Evidently from my posts I am not emotional especially considering I have clearly stated I am not a supporter of Fellaini. Therefore I'm not sure why you think I sound emotional, also you think that post was irrational? May god help you if that's what you consider irrational.
Again, this is not a debate on whether Fellaini is good enough for us. This is a debate on your statement he is league two level at best but probably not better than a few random blokes you have played football with. I'm not a fan of Fellaini however, you suggesting he is no better than blokes you play football with is one of the most ridiculous statements on here.
So stop talking about whether he is good enough for us, you seem to think he is probably not better than random blokes you play football with. Let's discuss this statement of yours.
So from random blokes you play football with, to then being league 2 level, now you think he is performing at league 1 level? The next post he will be performing at championship level right?
Your main criticism of him is how he responds when pressured in possession of the ball however Cleverley or Carrick have struggled also this season, actually the entire United team are no different therefore it's a wonder how they are even 7th when many players have struggled when pressured! They should be relegated to league 2 right?
You now are inferring Belgium's midfield are no better than league 2 standard or they have a bad coach!!
Actually you deviate from the very point we are discussing and that is Fellaini to be no better than random blokes you play football with. If you are not a hater then it is possible you're delusional. This is not mean't as an insult but genuine observation, if you honestly believe Fellaini is at the level you suggested then you need to see a psychiatrist, asap.
Also, I didn't deviate from the points through childish logic. I actually provided a long post and detailed reasoning for why I think you are wrong however as we have discussion, there might be psychological problems that resulted you in misinterpreting a detailed post with sound reasoning to instead be a childish post with no reasoning whatsoever.
Now O'shea for United was no better than the random players you played football with? No better than a league 2 footballer?
I am merely defending him because your opinion he and now O'shea and even the Belgium national team are league 2 standard at best but probably no better than the random blokes you play football with and I think this is a most ridiculous to statement.
So Fellaini's ability to pass the ball is the only measure of his performance for you?
You need to watch football as a whole.
If you are willing to believe Fellaini, O'Shea and Belgium international team midfield are probably no better than random blokes you play football with and certainly not any better than league 2 standard then I can also understand why you deny United have generally struggled this season in possession of the ball when pressed.
Even if he were a laughing stock I would not be stating his performances are at best league 2 level but probably worse than players I play football with.
I respect premier league footballers for the work and devotion they have shown, I'm not going to insult them by comparing their level of performance to those I play football with.
Fletcher, Rooney and to an extent Carrick last night, were they performing at league 2 level? They also looked out of place.
You once more don't seem to understand what I am saying. Let's find your posts again:
I'm saying you are either a hater or delusional to have those opinions.
I honestly can't believe you are fiercely defending your opinion either, however I am intrigued to see your next response on why Fellaini is probably worse than a few random blokes you have played with, nor performing at a level above league 2.
Also, as we have established, you are now inferring O'Shea (United version) and the Belgium midfield are at Fellaini's league 2 (at best) level but probably not better than a few random blokes you have played football with.
If you have such an issue with how I have presented my views allow me to simplify it for you.
Fellaini is rubbish. There.
He is better than league 2 standard. I know people get frustrated with him but if you are going to criticize at least be realistic about it. It's obvious he is better than that - no one will take you seriously if you start suggesting that rubbish.
If you have such an issue with how I have presented my views allow me to simplify it for you.
Fellaini is rubbish. There.
Yes but you have stated by rubbish you mean probably no better than a few random blokes you play football with, at best performing at league 2 level. And then you went on to defend your viewpoint at length as opposed to admitting you were wrong and merely over exaggerating suggesting you actually believe that to be true.
Next you'll be stating Moyes is a league 2 level manager...
Does this point suggest that Fellaini is better than Dembele or just more suitable sometimes?
The point I am making is that Fellaini is not performing as a league 2 level footballer. I'm not even his supporter however regarding having 48 caps for Belgium I suggested to the poster Rozay who claimed Fellaini to probably be no better than a few blokes he played football with and at best league 2, that either Belgium are so bad that they are no better than a league 2 side or Fellaini is better than that level.
So the point suggests Fellaini is better than league 2 level.
I don't know if Fellaini is better than Dembele. But I do think if the choice were Dembele or a league 2 level footballer, the chances are the former would be a nailed on starter.
I can't believe this is being debated. Someone very stubborn exaggerated, surely no more energy needs to be wasted on it.
Dembele looks like a good footballer in all that he does, but take away the style and you've got a totally wank player that does next to nothing. Fellaini is legitimately better. His passing is sharper, he scores more goals and he's better at the defensive side of the game.
Is Valencia - Basel on tv or are people streaming it? If it goes to penalties I'll give it a watch.
I'd take Dembele over Fellaini any day.
Why? Fellaini has been outperforming him for years.
Dembele is versatile, can do things with the ball Fellaini can only dream of. Fellaini was only good at one thing at Everton, being a target man who played best with his back to goal. No wonder he's struggling as a proper CM
He's no more versatile than Fellaini. Fellaini has been better both as an actual central midfielder as well as behind the striker. He's scored more goals, he's won more games, his forward passing, beyond the aesthetics, is a lot more forward-thinking, progressive and accurate. He's also stronger, better in the air and better at breaking up play.
Dembele can dribble, and other than appearing as if he's a very good player, he's actually doing nothing at all. The last sentence is bollocks. No matter what has gone on this season, I still can't believe people like you are pedalling the notion that he wasn't good in central midfield for Everton. Before his MOTD season, he very much was.
If he was so vital to Everton as a CM they wouldn't have switched him to number 10 and kept him there. It was his most effective position. Funny how Fellaini has been completely terrible at all the things I have in bold. He's been nothing short of a thug barging into players and shooting up the fouls charts. Thats Fellaini, most fouls in the league this season and second last season. His stats for aerial battles lost is really, really pathetic and inexcusable.
Moyes, who we now know very well, was generally a direct, percentage football manager that utilised Fellaini in such a way that he could and would help them score goals. Most Everton fans will tell you that they preferred him in his box-to-box role, however.
His forward passing has been fine this season. He gets it and moves it on to the player in front of him very well. The defensive side of his game, his getting caught on the ball as well as his general impact in the bigger games has been rightly criticised, but he's no mug passing the ball.
His passing is average. He can't pick out a player more than 10 yards away or make a key pass to create a chance. His stats are godawful, he has a high completion percentage because he plays a shitload of safe passes, like Cleverley. Even still, he had the 156th highest completion rate last season worse than any CM on our team including Cleverley. I've seen this guy pass the ball to Mata when he (Mata) was surrounded by two opposition players. He can't carry the ball forward and its almost as if he's scared of it. Scared of being caught out of possession because it happens often with him. Very poor in tight spots, can't get himself out of them to save his life. Fletcher and Carrick are way better at that.
I dare anyone to explain how they think this guy will move us up a level or two, because that's what you expect when you pay 27M for a player's services. He's not here to play it safe, he's supposed to be here to make a difference and add quality. He's only marginally better than Cleverley. Even Kagawa has more of a physical presence than this guy and is better off the ball. Under Moyes United have averaged 73 long balls a game as opposed to 59 last season, dinosaur route one tactics that are supposed to accommodate limited players like Felliani. He was the 14th best tackler for midfielders last season, so he's overrated in that respect too (dembele was higher btw). He was one of the most dispossessed players as well at Everton, only Pienaar lost the ball more times.
In conclusion, we paid for the wrong player and we're paying for it. Moyes will play him to justify his aquisition but he won't take us to greater heights. I give him 2 seasons here max. Another season like this one and he'll be firmly planted on the sidelines, considering we're going for real quality players this summer.
* Facts sourced from squakwa
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