One has to view Gotze in the context of where he was in his career. Sure, it did weaken Dortmund as well, but Gotze was, along with Neymar, billed as one who would enter the "best player in the world" debate eventually, so that level of player is always "needed".
Very well said, not many caftards do this regarding most topics in football.
@Sphaero
The business is cynical, and so are many players, their agents and of course clubs too. I accepted that over the years but dislike it when the story telling of agents and clubs go overboard. And I don't like it if my motives for my opinions are implied to be different than what they are.
The business is cynical, and so are many players, their agents and of course clubs too. I accepted that over the years but dislike it when the story telling of agents and clubs go overboard. And I don't like it if my motives for my opinions are implied to be different than what they are.
That's a point where I actually agree with you. It was a side effect Bayern didn't mind but certainly not the motif. If Götze had played for, let's say, Cologne who didn't compete with Bayern, you would have bought him as well.
The reason why this myth is resonating with many BVB fans is perhaps not just disappointment but because IIRC Lattek (?) and Hoeneß admitted that Bayern acted that way decades ago.
I would absolutely try to keep him. He contributed lots before his injury, he's still really young and a unique type of player who can crack open teams that park the bus. Pep will be gone in a few weeks and the cards will be reshuffled under Ancelotti.
It would be downright stupid to sell him.
It would be downright stupid to sell him.
It just would make sense if he would have a perspective at Bayern to be one of the first 11 - but I do not see that - under no coach. And not to have that motivation and mentality is extremely harmful to your performance as we have already seen with some players e.g. Shaqiri and even Pizarro (and now with Götze when e.g. Löw tells that he still is not in good shape 2 months after he started training!)
Even in a case like Pizarro who somewhat accepted a reserve role in his age - he was very helpful in his first 2 years but never in shape in the third. He shows again in Bremen what he is still capable to do.
Götze is no. 5 for the two winger position and far behind Müller or Lewy - when it means no. 9/hanging striker/10 - especially if you know that that construct with the hanging striker is not originally Pep's idea who prefers a 4-3-3 and it is e.g. Thiago that e.g. missed out on the starting formation lately for that.
In the last two seasons - prior to the arrival of Coman and Costa - there was still more chances for him because of Robben's and Ribery's injuries - even if that was not the ideal position. But now...
The first #freemario posts started at twitter...
There were a few examples, but they were usually of lower profile and had nowhere near the positive and negative sideeffects the Götze transfer had. And the number of transfers that fall into that category is really, really small.
Most of the time it's a rumour that starts out of frustration when a player fails at Bayern, so people look for different reasons to talk shit about Bayern. Del'Haye was the first one in 1980 and what a nightmare signing it was.
Half the time when we sign players, the question if we really need him is asked. I guess that's pretty normal at top clubs, when you try to keep the squad level as high as possible and create a competitive environment.
When Götze signed in 2013, our options in attacking midfield, on the wings and upfront were:
Gomez, Mandzukic, Pizarro, Müller, Robben, Ribery, Shaqiri, Kroos
Looking at that team, you surely did expect Götze to break into the first team and make one of the 4 attacking positions his own. Especially longterm with Ribery, Robben getting old and Kroos moving deeper into a CM role.
Is the story that Pep had to be persuaded about him really true?
No. Just that Neymar was his first choice and that he did not get him. It was Pep that phoned Götze prior to his signature and persuaded him to come.
You would have expected Götze to show what he did at Dortmund and above that improve a lot. He barely showed what he did at Dortmund and apart from being more clinical in front of goal I haven't seen improvements. Players who were a lot older than him like e.g. Robben improved...
No. Pep suggested our board to sign Neymar, but they didn't want to because our experience with Brazilian players in the past and how they transition to life in Germany or at least at Bayern wasn't good. At least when we signed them directly from Brazil without another European club inbetween. I doubt we had a chance to sign him anyway and we certainly wouldn't have paid what Barca paid.
The club suggested Götze instead and Pep agreed. That's it. The whole story about Götze not being wanted was a totally silly exaggeration of the fact that Pep wanted Neymar but didn't get him.
Thanks.
He's coming to Liverpool 
Would be an odd signing for you lot unless you intend on selling Coutinho or Firmino. Three AM's/SS's who all want to start would be complete overkill. I'd stick with Coutinho as he's already settled in England.He's coming to Liverpool
If it's possible - then he's the type of player you don't turn down. Similar to Arsenal with Ozil, he'd give the whole club a well needed boost.
He's definitely not that caliber of player, like Ozil or Sanchez. Potentially, he could be if he fulfills his potential, of course.
Like I said, I'd go for him for us as his potential is that high. But Liverpool already have a 10 you're happy with. I don't see the three of them working. Coutinho would probably have to go.
He's someone who could conceivably be top 3 in the league.
Coutinho operates better in a midfield 3 for me. Finding space for him, Firmino and Gotze would be a nice headache to have.
Possibly. It wouldn't be a headache that would work, though. Basically, you'd have to sell one of them, or struggle on the pitch due to imbalance. Plus Gotze will want to now start every game and play in his best position post-Bayern.
I dont get why we are never in for players like him. He is stuck on the bench for Bayern so he could come fairly cheaply. And we can sure as hell afford his fees and his wages. We need a proper #10 who is quick. He is going to want to start games and we can give him that. He is still young. We will add another German to the squad.
Ibra
Martial - Götze - NEW RW
Bastian - Schneiderlin
Martial - Götze - NEW RW
Bastian - Schneiderlin
Rooney
Depay - Mata - Lingard
Herrera - Carrick
Depay - Mata - Lingard
Herrera - Carrick
have you read anything in this case?
repeating for you: götze wants to play cl and -much more important- punched kloppo in the face with his move to bayern. its very unlikely that they will work togehter again.
I dont get why we are never in for players like him. He is stuck on the bench for Bayern so he could come fairly cheaply. And we can sure as hell afford his fees and his wages. We need a proper #10 who is quick. He is going to want to start games and we can give him that. He is still young. We will add another German to the squad.
Well according to that article he doesn't want to move abroad, so it's hard to rule out that United showed any interest.
There seem to be quite a few German and British journos (Honigstein, Barrett etc) who have confirmed Klopp's interest and think it could happen.
I don't think Klopp holds a grudge. He never said a bad word about Götze and I think I've read a few times that they're still in contact with each other.
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Yes, Gotze has recently said in an interview that he is still in contact with Klopp.
I'll believe it when I see it. Teixeira, Konoplyanka and Willian are examples of transfers that looked likely in the past then fell through or didn't materialise for one reason or another.
I'm curious to hear what situation the people who watch Gotze a lot think he would excel in. 4-4-2 as a support striker like Griezmann at Atletico? 4-2-3-1 as a more goalscoring than passing 10? LW in a 4-3-3 cutting in like Neymar at Barca? Counter-attacking side or possession one?
Couldn't care less. If he's really available for £20m as he's going into the last year of his contract then we def should he trying to pinch him from their clutches. Klopp is the only advantage they have over us, surely Schweinsteiger could talk to him and make him see sense.
Will be a terrific deal for Liverpool for any price. Still think there's a chance that he might go to Dortmund especially if Liverpool don't qualify for CL.
This one is different. Klopp. I think this could work, especiaply if Dortmund and Bayern dont agree for whatever reason.
So how reliable is this Hunter guy then, because the German source (which says that Götze's wish is to return to Dortmund and that there was already contact between the clubs regarding that matter) is probably about as trustworthy as it gets in today's media.
The story will have come from a Liverpool inside source. If their confidence is misplaced is another matter altogether.
Isn't Liverpool's confidence ALWAYS misplaced?
I don't think a team with Firmino, Coutinho and Gotze in the same side is balanced.
I agree. And unless they sign another winger, Lallana will be the other wide option.
You've been listening to LVG too much.
They were convinced they'd get Reus and Gundogan too.
feck balance. If Götze is genuinely available we need to get him. Firmino can play as a false 9 if needs be, he excels there anyway.
Isn't Götze just the German Sturridge (in terms of injuries)?