Do you think him scoring the winner in the world cup had a detrimental effect on his personality? Like it almost demotivated him because he had plenty of money and scored the biggest goal he'll probably ever score at such a young age? Does he have the hunger to be a world great?
Yeah you knew it all along, of course.
6 goals 15 assists as an 18 year old in 2500 Buli minutes, carrying his team at times when they slowed down during the second half of the season, Kicker's marks ranked him as third best AM of the league after Kagawa and Robben
6 goals 5 assists in 1182 as a 19 year old (he was injured for half the season), again carrying the team when they had a slow start to the season and Kagawa was out of shape, Kicker's marks ranked him highest in the league.
10 goals 12 assists in 2000 minutes in Bundesliga and 2 goals 8 assists in 900 minutes in the CL as 20 year old (over all competitions 16 goals and 20 assists in 3200 minutes) as a 20 year old, Kicker's marks ranked him 2nd best outfield player after Ribery
He really was that good.
Last edited:
Usually, true. But Huth loooked downright miserable when he joined Leicester, and that turned out pretty well :-)
You mean the player does not have deliver performance for the money they pay him?
If he would have delivered as promised - especially last season when we really were in need of a third functioning offensive player - there would not have been any discussion about him.
@do.ob
He still has to show that in another system. I thought a move to Klopp was the ideal thing for him especially as I think Klopp really would have wanted to show the world that he is a "better coach than Pep" when it means Mario.
Stop following me around you weirdo. And yes, of course I did.
He looked a very good young player, yes. Ballon D'or level? Not even close.
Agreed.
Well he dominated the league, was a leading player for the champions and later CL finalists and all that with brutal consistency. What more do you expect of a teenager? Messi's and Ronaldo's output wasn't even close to that at a similar age.
He's stalled or even regressed for 3 years now and people still call a €25m fee peanuts for him.
Stats and numbers are well and good but he never ever looked close to being a WPOTY. You're a German and a Dortmund fan so I'll excuse you for being biased.
More down to the inflation in transfer market and the fact that he's still a pretty good player. Wouldn't want him at United but for a second tier club like Liverpool he's be a good signing I guess.
We're not talking about the here and now but rather about the promise he showed as a teen. Obviously there are some rather big question marks about him after the Bayern stint.
And I tink "would he have become WPOTY is such a ridiculous way of looking at talents. It's a award for one player in a team game and it's also heavily influenced by popularity and narrative. Would you for example have guessed that Canavaro would win it? Does someone have to be first to be a great player? Bagging loads of goals and assists as well as being largely resistant to pressure and very involved in his team's play would've put him in a very good spot, especially if he had progressed instead of basically wasting three years.
I agree.
WPOTY is more a general speak for a truly outstanding player rather than specifically looking at whether he would win the award. And I never really got that impression from him at Dortmund, hence calling him overrated. As recently as last year people were putting were bizarrely putting him up with the likes of Bale or Neymar.
Well the thing is that back then your outlook was "if he is that good in his teens then how good will he be if he matures and gets even better" whereas if you look at his performances now that question has already been answered for the time being.
Back then it didn't seem far fetched that he would turn into a dominating #10 with plenty of goals him (basically a less explosive verion of Messi or maybe a goal scoring Iniesta if you will), because the foundations (game reading, team play, vision, finesse, finishing) were all visible and given his age the natural assumption was that he would build on that.
Back then it didn't seem far fetched that he would turn into a dominating #10 with plenty of goals him (basically a less explosive verion of Messi or maybe a goal scoring Iniesta if you will), because the foundations (game reading, team play, vision, finesse, finishing) were all visible and given his age the natural assumption was that he would build on that.
Yeah well. One could argue your post is evidence of how much he was overrated
I didn't say he's an idiot, but an a-hole. No doubt he's running our club very well.
He looked like he had to potential too reach that level, more than others who actually did. Who playe like that, at that age, in the past 20 years? You won't find much.
It's easy to judge it now that years have passed but your boasting about "oh I have been right" is a bit ridicoulous. Even a blind chicken sometimes finds a corn.
Yeah well. One could argue your post is evidence of how much he was overrated
I didn't say he's an idiot, but an a-hole. No doubt he's running our club very well.
He was, at the time, one of the 2 best under 21 players in the world. That is WPOTY potential, we haven't had anything like that since than, as good as our youth system is. People here get excited about someone like Sane when he isn't even close to what Götze was.
It didn't play out, for whatever reason, but a few years ago it was a valid claim.
Agreed.
Nah, he was clearly extraordinary as teen and the hype built on that.
Over the years I noticed a clear pattern when it comes to people rating Götze´s time at Dortmund. The more times they actually watched him play there, the higher they rated him. The reason for that is that it made them aware of the reason why he was so valuable for them and what set him apart from other top talents. Götze´s biggest strength was not so much visible in single games but other longer spans of time. While he did not have a huge number of breath taking performances, he had only a handful of real offgames in over a hundred games.
In his three years at Dortmund, he never had a slump, infact I have trouble remembering an instance when he had two poor games back to back. The guy basically delivered every game and put on 7-9/10 perfomances like a clockwerk. That is why he always ranked so high in season long rankings as they value consistency way more than occasional miracle perfomances.
Such brutal consistency is already rare for players in their prime, but for a player in the middle of his development at 18-20 years old it was an absolute annormaly. After all consistency is the one thing talents normally lack a bit as they develop. That is why all experts promised him such a bright future. If a player has still room to grow in so many aspects but has already established such a strong perfomance level and lack of fluctations in terms of form, the way to become one of the best in the world is not that long anymore.
His downfall at Bayern was, that not only he failed to develop further as player, but he also lost the kind of consistency that made him stand out before. Instead of basically always having a clear presence on the pitch, he turned into a passenger a lot of time with some flashes of his old brilliance. It is like he regressed from the established top player he was at Dortmund to a mere talent with a promise of more.
The lack of consistency might be because he simply cannot get two games in a row in this Bayern side.
I think he's mad trying to give it another year. Next year he will be in his mid twenties one the back of four terrible season on the trot of he stays.
I think he's mad trying to give it another year. Next year he will be in his mid twenties one the back of four terrible season on the trot of he stays.
Sigh.
I kind of get it though, its his boyhood club, the place where he wants to establish himself as the face of german football. But he really needs to take a move to a place where he'll get regular football in his best position, real head vs heart descion.
Yep saw that to, 25million euro fee, so 19 million pounds, absolute snip. I really really want him here.
I think it's one of those moves that will happen on the last day of the window when the season starts and he's on the bench. Reality will kick in.
Jim White will be fantasizing at the prospect.
Jim White will be fantasizing at the prospect.
wow that's crazy money to give up. strange how Liverpool would offer Mario that but not try to use that to keep sterling
Now watch him have a brilliant Euros and join Juventus in a deal that's done within a week.
Sterling didn't want to be at the club any longer, he could feck off for all I care.
I never really was aboard the Gotze hype train. I remember the discussion in the newbies when I joined over who was better, Gotze or Neymar, I really didn't think Gotze was near his ability despite many being adamant Gotze was better.
Still do think he is a talented player, just not on the level many were saying he was.
Still do think he is a talented player, just not on the level many were saying he was.
Im guessing FSG trust Klopp with money more than Rodgers, which makes sense.
This was in 2012 and 2014, and I believe he was every inch the talent that @Sphaero says he was above as well. Bayern turned out to be a bad career move, in terms of him being counted among the best in the world. But I do think he still has that ability, and that a motivated Gotze who starts every game would be a top class signing for Liverpool.
That wage is crazy.
no cl for kloppo, no götze for liverpool. simple that is.£19m for Goetze, I doubt they'll be a better deal all summer. He's still only 23 as well....sign him up!
Less than 25m€ is a steal, well worth a punt.
Does he demand CL football? all the stories coming out, even from the Bayern president is that he's not needed and wont play next season. I don't see the likes of Barce or Madrid either plus the CL football thing is a rather silly situation at times. Spurs and Leicester have CL football but id be surprised of many players would pick either club over United or Chelsea.
I would like us to go for him. Since his contract is up in 2017 and he does start much i think we can get him for under 30m, Bild cites that eve 25m euros might be enough.
If Mourinho does not trust Mata. i would rather go for Gotze than James with his insanely high transfer fee.
If Mourinho does not trust Mata. i would rather go for Gotze than James with his insanely high transfer fee.
Weird seeing a decent young player, who supposedly wants to stay, being forced out.
If a player did this to a team, he would be called all kind of names. But Bayern are hardly getting any blame here.
If a player did this to a team, he would be called all kind of names. But Bayern are hardly getting any blame here.
It's hard to blame Bayern, they don't need him and are being honest about it. They are just telling him that if he wants significant playtime it's best for him to move somewhere else.
Financially it is better for bayern to get a transfer fee
If I were him I'd wait till new year and sign a bosman pre contract for crazy money
I cant believe he hasnt been linked with us yet.
If he barely plays, clubs might lowball him. I don't think that he is going to have more money next summer.
Edit: The only clubs who are going to give him crazy money are the ones that aren't really good since Gotze hasn't been a top performer in the last two years and seemingly won't be one next year.
Last edited:
See thats the easy ride I was talking about. If say Payet comes out and days West Ham wont win anything significant anytime soon and that he would rather sign for a big team this summer - This wouldn't be received so well.