Margaret Thatcher

Excal said:
They said so in a report entitled "Healthcare Litigation Determined to Acquire Weapons of Mass Destruction in Niger".
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It is a big government - there is a difference between the State Department and Department of Defence on one hand, and the Department of Commerce and the Department of Health and Human Services on the other.
 
Dresilved said:
You’re having a laugh, theres no me at all, I’m actually saying "please don’t give me any help” I’m asking for nothing from anyone, not only that, I’m offering to give back to society by proving a small number of permanent or temp jobs and paying more in taxes than most...how is that selfish exactly? 2 years ago I gave the government almost 50% of what I took in for the year, I wonder how you’d feel about that? another 46% went to those I hired as temporary contractors through the course of the year, operational costs/ insurance/rent etc.... do the math and tell me how I’m selfist again? and how my atavistic emotions are exercised without guilt, my wife would be especial interested to hear this!

Perhaps you could chime in here TD, I’d love to hear your learned opinion on my selfishness? and how people I hired made more than me.... I’m looking forward to this
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Come on, you don't get brownie points for generosity just for paying your taxes, you're required to by law. If you had your way you wouldn't be paying that money, because you don't really care about people with nothing, you care about your own.

I'm not having a go, the vast majority of us are no different. Which is precisely why we need a social contract to provide for the poor - we can't rely on individual altruism.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
You asked for specific points as why MT was disliked and became, as I think this thread shows, such a divisive figure. I tried to give you some of the issues and policies. You haven't really understood or addressed them but never mind. I will take the time to discuss one point (in bold) in your post and hope you can try to be open minded about my different take on it.


For most of your post you talk about govt running things and how bad that is. So the obvious point that your Mums house was built by govt seems to have escaped you. Without that house where would you or she be? You think the govt paid for the house so your mum could sell it for a large profit. In fact it was built to provide a decent place to live for the working poor who otherwise found themselves in cramped overcrowded and often terrible, rented accommodation.

The govt, having recognised the fact that the private sector couldn't provide such an essential need as good housing, decided to build them itself. As so often with the nationalised industries or the things govts start doing for us, it does so because the private sector fecked it up. The houses were built with taxes paid by previous generations and current tax payers. To me this means it's a legacy, (good affordable social housing), we should look after it for future generation to benefit from it as we have benefited from their foresight.

Now Pletch makes the point that right to buy was a giveaway but at least a give away to the right kind of people. I think it was an outstanding and innovative notion. Freeing up previous housing investment but not creating homelessness because the people in the houses were the ones buying them. If the money raised had been spent on more social housing then it would have been a lasting positive for the country but that isn't what happened.

That (Erica) is what I have against it. Now the next generation is going to struggle to find affordable housing. The modern Dresilved's mum gets to work all her life, live in a shit hole and die in poverty. Just the way the private sector likes it.
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but Dre's mum actually went out on a limb and bought the house - I would have thought the safer option for her would have been just to continue renting, but instead she took on a mortgage and bought it - what's wrong with that?
 
Dresilved said:
Is there not a a lot of private sector road maintenance now? I thought there was
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Don't know. That said, it probably wasn't the best example.

Govt will usually look to provide non-rival and non-excludable goods that the private sector wont. The first example I can recall is public parks.

EDIT: Addressing your point re "govt can feck off, I'll provide for myself", if we were to extrapolate that thinking to the rest of the population, there would be many cases where for people the individual cost of attain a good or service outweighs it's benefits. Govt can fill this dead weight between demand and supply.
 
EricaNo7 said:
but Dre's mum actually went out on a limb and bought the house - I would have thought the safer option for her would have been just to continue renting, but instead she took on a mortgage and bought it - what's wrong with that?
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Nothing.

She would also have been offered the house at below market value. As Pletch said a giveaway.

But where is the house for the next person who needs to rent from the council?

The idea wasn't such a bad one but by selling the housing stock and not using the money raised to replace it you produce the massive housing problems we have now.

That’s why I think it was wrong to do it the way MT did it. That is one of a list of reasons I have for thinking of her as I do.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Nothing.

She would also have been offered the house at below market value. As Pletch said a giveaway.

But where is the house for the next person who needs to rent from the council?

The idea wasn't such a bad one but by selling the housing stock and not using the money raised to replace it you produce the massive housing problems we have now.

That’s why I think it was wrong to do it the way MT did it. That is one of a list of reasons I have for thinking of her as I do.
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I appreciate that obviously we see things totally differently, and i welcome a reasoned discussion over it, without my being totally vilified just because I'm right wing.

Looking at the housing crisis from my viewpoint is obviously going to be different to yours but to give you an example, we live about half a mile from what was once quite a nice area - a mix of private and council housing. Unfortunately our Council saw fit to rehouse a lot of undesirables from Middlesbrough and Darlington ( basically who had been asked to leave from those areas ) and now there are no houses left for the locals who need them- personally I don't know why the council agreed to it, but the lack of housing in this case can't solely be attributed to Lady T!
 
EricaNo7 said:
I

Looking at the housing crisis from my viewpoint is obviously going to be different to yours but to give you an example, we live about half a mile from what was once quite a nice area - a mix of private and council housing. Unfortunately our Council saw fit to rehouse a lot of undesirables from Middlesbrough and Darlington ( basically who had been asked to leave from those areas ) and now there are no houses left for the locals who need them- personally I don't know why the council agreed to it, but the lack of housing in this case can't solely be attributed to Lady T!
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That might be an example of a local council managing its social housing policy badly. But what's it got to do with the question of whether Thatcher managed the national social housing policy badly?
 
Dresilved said:
Owing your own business changes everything when it comes to economics, I’ve found myself being led in the direction I’m on now because I lean in the direction that will most benefit me and my employees It always appears that to me that democrat administrations want to take more money from me, Bush was an idiot but he created some nice tax breaks that benefited me. It is my opinion that small business are the most important element of any society, we create most of the jobs, taking care of small business in turn helps all of us
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You may be interested in this article from yesterday comparing the conditions for entrepreneurs and small businesses in Norway and the USA. It's quite long (7 pages) but has some interesting things to say about the impact - or not - of taxes on the success of small businesses.

In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism
 
Norway, population five million, is a very small, very rich country. It is a cold country and, for half the year, a dark country. (The sun sets in late November in Mo i Rana. It doesn't rise again until the end of January.) This is a place where entire cities smell of drying fish—an odor not unlike the smell of rotting fish—and where, in the most remote parts, one must be careful to avoid polar bears. The food isn't great.
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:lol:
 
MikeUpNorth said:
You may be interested in this article from yesterday comparing the conditions for entrepreneurs and small businesses in Norway and the USA. It's quite long (7 pages) but has some interesting things to say about the impact - or not - of taxes on the success of small businesses.

In Norway, Start-ups Say Ja to Socialism
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Very interesting read that. As Norwegians we are very good at comparing ourselves to other nations, for good or bad but being such a small nation it's not often you see others compare themselves to us. I've often made flippant remarks about the tax system in Norway and there are details in it that I fin utterly ridiculous but in general I can't complain (in fact, in our priviliged position it would be rude to do so).
 
Plechazunga said:
The problem is surely that you then ossify wealth disparity?
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Possibly, if you believe that going to a premium university is a good predictor of future wealth. Going to university gets you over a hump and through a certain threshold, no doubt about that. But I'm not sure paying £8,250 for an Oxbridge education is superior to paying £3,000 for an education from Southampton University (say). I do think that making uni free makes it unvalued.

Dresilved said:
You’re having a laugh, theres no me at all, I’m actually saying "please don’t give me any help” I’m asking for nothing from anyone, not only that, I’m offering to give back to society by proving a small number of permanent or temp jobs and paying more in taxes than most...how is that selfish exactly? 2 years ago I gave the government almost 50% of what I took in for the year, I wonder how you’d feel about that? another 46% went to those I hired as temporary contractors through the course of the year, operational costs/ insurance/rent etc.... do the math and tell me how I’m selfist again? and how my atavistic emotions are exercised without guilt, my wife would be especial interested to hear this!

Perhaps you could chime in here TD, I’d love to hear your learned opinion on my selfishness? and how people I hired made more than me.... I’m looking forward to this
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Sounds like your business is unviable, if you're paying 46% of your revenues to workers. It's not worth hiring them!

50% tax rate is par for the course though - as long as you pay the 40% marginal income tax rate you'll pay that once you take into account NI. If you're lucky / unlucky enough to get caught by the top tax rate then you'll pay around 62% I think.

Frosty said:
What Plech said.



Here are two examples focusing on the current reforms surroundingthe ideology that universities should be opened up to the market.

First, Oxford and Cambridge have capped their fees at £8,250.

No other university will increase fees above this to £9,000.

Oxbridge are using their position (as they can take a financial hit due to their endowments) to dictate to the rest of the universities what they can charge.
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Really? What if you think you have a better product than Oxbridge? Some unis do, and are worth paying for.
Frosty said:
Second, university quotas. Universities get fined if they go over strict government quotas for Home/EU students. The noises currently being made are that quotas will stay.

So universities have massive cuts in funding related to research and teaching and still have to labour under centralised government 'targets'.

A double fisting that means universities will go bust (although, of course government underwrites them so they cannot go bust) and huge numbers of academic positions and courses are being scrapped.

That is not opening up to the market. That is turning universities into sixth form colleges focused on teaching for the reason that those in power do not like the idea of their being centrally funded.
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I believe the quotas are to keep a certain number of places open for home students, charged at the new rate. You then increase the amount charged to foreign students to make up the difference.
 
spinoza said:
Sounds like your business is unviable, if you're paying 46% of your revenues to workers. It's not worth hiring them!

50% tax rate is par for the course though - as long as you pay the 40% marginal income tax rate you'll pay that once you take into account NI. If you're lucky / unlucky enough to get caught by the top tax rate then you'll pay around 62% I think.
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My Business is viable, it just happened to be a bad year - the year of the collapse. However it shocks me that people are so willing to accept that a small business can pay 50-60% of what it makes to the government, in other words the gov makes more of what I earn than I do! Whether its accepted or not, to me its not reasonable... its too much. If you work for someone you pay far less tax, why is this fair? there is massive unemployment all over the western world because its been made so difficult for small business (who provide most of the jobs) to do business, all I’m asking for is a fair crack at being able to survive. If my business fails then people lose their jobs, though somehow this is a "nasty bit of psychology” according to Pletch. There isn’t a small business owner who will say differently, for all those who read about this stuff and form such elegant theories of how it should all be, I say try doing it in the real world and see if adds up just the same!
 
Did you read that article comparing small businesses in Norway and the US Dresilved? Would be interested to see what you thought.
 
spinoza said:
Possibly, if you believe that going to a premium university is a good predictor of future wealth. Going to university gets you over a hump and through a certain threshold, no doubt about that. But I'm not sure paying £8,250 for an Oxbridge education is superior to paying £3,000 for an education from Southampton University (say). I do think that making uni free makes it unvalued.
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I think that the level of tuition at Oxbridge would make it worthwhile for many. The 'product' (shudder) of Oxbridge is also a much safer bet, as it is effectively insulated against league tables.

Really? What if you think you have a better product than Oxbridge? Some unis do, and are worth paying for.

I believe the quotas are to keep a certain number of places open for home students, charged at the new rate. You then increase the amount charged to foreign students to make up the difference.
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I foresee two problems:

First, Oxbridge can offer amazing tuition. If another university were to charge more than Oxbridge, then the expectation would be that they would give near one-on-one tuition to students. Very few (if any) universities could successfully counter that perception (UCL and LSE could, could do it).

Second, for too long UK universities have treated international students as cash cows that subsidise Home and EU students. I am not sure how much longer this could go on for, especially if quotas are retained. There would need to be a huge increase in fees for international students to make up the difference. How many would still pay?
 
Dresilved said:
My Business is viable, it just happened to be a bad year - the year of the collapse. However it shocks me that people are so willing to accept that a small business can pay 50-60% of what it makes to the government, in other words the gov makes more of what I earn than I do! Whether its accepted or not, to me its not reasonable... its too much. If you work for someone you pay far less tax, why is this fair? there is massive unemployment all over the western world because its been made so difficult for small business (who provide most of the jobs) to do business, all I’m asking for is a fair crack at being able to survive. If my business fails then people lose their jobs, though somehow this is a "nasty bit of psychology” according to Pletch. There isn’t a small business owner who will say differently, for all those who read about this stuff and form such elegant theories of how it should all be, I say try doing it in the real world and see if adds up just the same!
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Hang on, if you pay 40% marginal tax rate (and I think the threshold for this is reasonably low already), you'll pay 50% tax once NI is taken into account. If you pay the 50% marginal tax rate you'll pay around 62% once NI is taken into account. So even if you work for a salary, at certain levels you'll pay the same tax rate as if you owned a small business. It doesn't feel good, but it's pretty fair.

Frosty said:
I foresee two problems:

First, Oxbridge can offer amazing tuition. If another university were to charge more than Oxbridge, then the expectation would be that they would give near one-on-one tuition to students. Very few (if any) universities could successfully counter that perception (UCL and LSE could, could do it).
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I think the quality of the course and professors could overcome that. I mentioned university of Southampton because I know someone who rejected Cambridge and KCL to read law there, because of the quality of the maritime law courses. I don't necessarily think that one on one tuition is superior once you do the cost benefit analysis.
Frosty said:
Second, for too long UK universities have treated international students as cash cows that subsidise Home and EU students. I am not sure how much longer this could go on for, especially if quotas are retained. There would need to be a huge increase in fees for international students to make up the difference. How many would still pay?
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I reckon demand is inelastic at least up to the point where UK fees are comparable to US fees. That's probably a doubling from where they are now, at least for the top 10 or so universities. There are still hordes of foreign students coming in even though prices have risen around 60% (at the top end, anyway) over 10 years.
 
Here is a list of Taxes that have mostly come to exist in the last 100 years ..... obviously a few are “state” related. There are some real beauts in here..... I’m making a prediction that this list will continue to grow and not diminish, I wonder what the tipping point will be?

What we need is not a republican party or a democrat party or any other nonsense that currently exists, we need a fresh approach to how governments govern, they’re the ones who cause the problems, then saddle all of us with the debt


1. Accounts Receivable Tax
2. Accounting and Tax Preparation (cost to taxpayers $300 billion)
3. Accumulated Earnings Tax
4. Accumulation Distribution of Trusts
5. Activity Fee (Dumping Permit Fee)
6 . Air Tax (PA coin-operated vacuums)
7. Aircraft Jet Fuel Tax
8. Aircraft Excise Tax
9 . Alcohol Fuels Tax
10. Alcoholic Beverage Tax
11. Alternative Minimum Tax – Amt
12. Ambulance Services (Air Ambulance Services, SD)
13. Ammunition Tax ......Doc!
14. Amusement Tax (MA, VA, MD)
15. Animal Slaughter Tax (WI, others, Per Animal)
16. Annual Custodial Fees (Ira Accounts)
17. Ballast Water Management Fee (Marine Invasive Species)
18. Biodiesel Fuel Tax
19. Blueberry Tax (Maine)
20. Bribe Taxes (Pay If You Dare)
21. Brothel licensing fees
22. Building Permit Tax
23. Capital Gains Tax
24. California Interstate User Diesel Fuel Tax
25. California Redemption Value (Can and Bottle Tax)
26. CDL License Tax
27. Charter Boat Captain License
28. Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention Fee
29. Cigarette Tax
30. Cigarette Tax Stamp (Acts) (Distributors)
31. Compressed Natural Gas Tax
32. Commercial Activity Tax (OH – for Service Providers)
33. Corporate Income Tax
34. Court Fines (Indirect Taxes)
35. County Property Tax
36. Disposable Diapers Tax (Wisconsin)
37. Disposal Fee (Any Landfill Dumping)
38. Dog License Tax this is nothing more than the gov finding a way to charge you twice for having a dog!
39. Duck Hunting Tax Stamp (PA, others)
40. Electronic Waste Recycling Fee (E-Waste)
41. Emergency Telephone User Surcharge
42. Environmental Fee (CA – HazMat Fees)
43. Estate Tax (Death Tax, to be reinstated)
44. Excise Taxes
45. Facility Fee (CA – HazMat Fees)
46. FDIC tax (insurance premium on bank deposits)
47. Federal Income Tax
48. Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)... does this mean the Gov is taxing the money it’s giving you?
49. Fiduciary Income Tax (Estates and Trusts)
50. Fishing License Tax
51. Flush Tax (MD Tax For Producing Wastewater)
52. Food License Tax
53. Fountain Soda Drink Tax (Chicago – 9%)...... I’m familiar with this one as I already pay 6.5% state tax + 9% city tax and now this, thats 3 taxes on a can of coke... :lol: out of control, if this is not gouging....!
54. Franchise Tax
55. Fresh Fruit (CA, if Purchased From A Vending Machine)....classic!
56. Fuel Gross Receipts Tax (Retail/Distributor)
57. Fuel Permit Tax
58. Fur Clothing Tax (MN)
59. Garbage Tax
60. Gasoline Tax (475 Cents Per Gallon)
61. Generation-Skipping Transfer Tax
62. Generator Fee (Recycled Waste Fee)
63. Gift Tax
64. Gross Receipts Tax
65. Habitat Stamp (Hunting/Fishing in some states)
66. Hamburger Tax
67. Hazardous Substances Fees: Generator, Facility, Disposal
68. Highway Access Fee
69. Household Employment Taxes
70. Hunting License Tax
71. Illegal Drug Possession (No Carolina)
72. Individual Income Tax
73. Inheritance Tax
74. Insect Control Hazardous Materials License
75. Insurance Premium Tax
76. Intangible Tax (Leases Of Govt. Owned Real Property)
77. Integrated Waste Management Fee
78. Interstate User Diesel Fuel Tax
79. Inventory Tax
80. IRA Rollover Tax (a transfer of IRA money)
81. IRA Early Withdrawal Tax
82. IRS Interest Charges
83. IRS Penalties (Tax On Top Of Tax)
84. Jock Tax (income earned by athletes in some states)
85. Kerosene, Distillate, & Stove Oil Taxes
86. Kiddie Tax (Child’s Earned Interest Form 8615).... wtf?
87. Land Gains and Real Estate Withholding
88. Lead Poisoning Prevention Fee (Occupational)
89. Lease Severance Tax
90. Library Tax
91. Liquid Natural Gas Tax
92. Liquid Petroleum Gas Tax
93. Liquor Tax
94. Litigation Tax (TN Imposes Varies With the Offense)
95. LLC/PLLC Corporate Registration Tax
96. Local Income Tax
97. Lodging Taxes
98. Lump-Sum Distributions
99. Luxury Taxes
100. Make-Up Tax (Ohio, applying in a salon is taxable)
101. Marriage License Tax
102. Meal Tax
103. Medicare Tax
104. Mello-Roos Taxes (Special Taxes and Assessments)
105. Migratory Waterfowl Stamp (addition to hunting license)
106. Minnow Dealers License (Retail – For One Shop)
107. Minnow Dealers License (Distributor – For One+ Shops)
108. Mobile Home Ad Valorem Taxes
109. Motor Fuel Tax (For Suppliers)
110. Motor Vehicle Tax
111. Music and Dramatic Performing Rights Tax
112. Nudity Tax (Utah)
113. Nursery Registration (Buying and selling plants)
114. Occupancy Inspection Fees
115. Occupation Taxes and Fees (Various Professional Fees)
116. Oil and Gas Assessment Tax
117. Oil Spill Response, Prevention, and Administration Fee
118. Parking Space Taxes
119. Pass-Through Withholding
120. Pay-Phone Calls Tax (Indiana)
121. Percolation Test Fee
122. Personal Property Tax
123. Personal Holding Company (undistributed earnings)
124. Pest Control License
125. Petroleum Business Tax
126. Playing Card Tax (Al)
127. Pole Tax (TX – A $5 Cover Charge On Strip Clubs), I think this means "stripper pole"
128. Profit from Illegal Drug Dealing
129. Property Tax
130. Property Transfer Tax (DE, ownership transfer between parties)
131. Prostitution Tax (NV – Prostitute Work Permits)
132. Poultry Registered Premises License (Sales License)
133. Rain Water Tax (Runoff after a Storm)...... what the fleck is this?
134. Rat Control Fee (CA)
135. Real Estate Tax
136. Recreational Vehicle Tax
137. Refrigerator and Freezer Recycling Fees
138. Regional Transit Taxing Authority (Trains)
139. Road Usage Tax
140. Room Tax (Hotel Rooms)
141. Sales Tax (State)
142. Sales Tax (City)
143. Sales And Use Tax (Sellers Permit)
144. School Tax
145. Service Charge Tax
146. Self Employment Tax
147. Septic And Drain Field Inspection Fees
148. Sex Sales Tax (UT, when nude people perform services)
149. Sewer & Water Tax
150. Social Security Tax
151. Sparkler and Novelties Tax (WV Sellers of Sparklers, etc)
152. Special Assessment Tax (Not Ad Valorem)
153. State Documentary Stamp Tax on Notes (FL RE Tax)
154. State Franchise Tax
155. State Income Tax
156. State Park Fees
157. State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
158. Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) Fuel Tax
159. Stud Fees (Kentucky’s Thoroughbred Sex Tax)
160. Tangible Personal Property Tax
161. Tattoo Tax (AR Tax On Tattoos)
162. Telephone 911 Service Tax (some states)
163. Telephone Federal Excise Tax
164. Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
165. Telephone Federal Surcharge Taxes
166. Telephone State Surcharge Taxes
167. Telephone Local Surcharge Taxes
168. Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
169. Telephone Recurring Charges Tax
170. Telephone Universal Access Tax
171. Telephone Non-Recurring Charges Tax
172. Telephone State Usage Charge Tax
173. Telephone Local Usage Charge Tax
174. Tire Recycling Fee
175. Tobacco Tax (Cigar, Pipe, Consumer Tax)
176. Tobacco Tax (Cigar, Pipe, Dealer Tax)
177. Toll Road Taxes
178. Toll Bridge Taxes
179. Toll Tunnel Taxes
180. Tourism or Concession License Fee
181. Traffic Fines (Indirect Taxation)
182. Transportable Treatment Unit Fee (Small Facility)
183. Trailer Registration Tax
184. Trout Stamp (Addendum To Fish License)
185. Use Taxes (On Out-Of-State Purchases)
186. Utility Taxes
187. Unemployment Tax
188. Underground Storage Tank Maintenance Fee
189. Underpayment of Estimated Tax (Form 2210)
190. Unreported Tip Income (Social Security and Medicare Tax)
191. Vehicle License
192. Vehicle Recovery Tax (CO, to find stolen cars)
193. Vehicle Registration Tax
194. Vehicle Sales Tax
195. Wagering Tax (Tax on Gambling Winnings)
196. Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) Fuel Tax
197. Water Rights Fee
198. Watercraft Registration Tax
199. Waterfowl Stamp Tax
200. Well Permit Tax
201. Wiring Inspection Fees
202. Workers Compensation Tax
 
Dresilved said:
Here is a list of Taxes that have mostly come to exist in the last 100 years ..... obviously a few are “state” related. There are some real beauts in here.....
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If there was a twat tax you'd be severely out of pocket.

Most of that list that you probably got in a tea party email aren't even taxes.
 
I have to say that what is being said in the RAWK thread about people being horrible humans for celebrating the death of another of crap. So what that she is a 'frail old woman' now. She done more harm and divided classes in Brition than any other, not to mention what she's done in NI (which is my own personal reason to dispise her) than any other. Unless you have been personally effected by these actions of hers then I don't think you have a right to tell me that I'm rawkish for not wishing the old bitch well.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I have to say that what is being said in the RAWK thread about people being horrible humans for celebrating the death of another of crap. So what that she is a 'frail old woman' now. She done more harm and divided classes in Brition than any other, not to mention what she's done in NI (which is my own personal reason to dispise her) than any other. Unless you have been personally effected by these actions of hers then I don't think you have a right to tell me that I'm rawkish for not wishing the old bitch well.
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So if I had been personally effected by any of Lady T's policies I would have a right then?
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I have to say that what is being said in the RAWK thread about people being horrible humans for celebrating the death of another of crap. So what that she is a 'frail old woman' now. She done more harm and divided classes in Brition than any other, not to mention what she's done in NI (which is my own personal reason to dispise her) than any other. Unless you have been personally effected by these actions of hers then I don't think you have a right to tell me that I'm rawkish for not wishing the old bitch well.
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Surely there's a middle ground between wishing her well and celebrating her death?

For me it's not a question of what she did during her time in office, it's just a general thing I object to. Even when Bin Laden or Gaddafi died, celebrating like it's Christmas morning is not something that sits right with me. You don't have to feel sad or mourn the loss of them, you can acknowledge that fact the world might be a better or safer place without them, but actively rejoicing and feeling genuine pleasure is something I find difficult to understand.
 
From my ideological standpoint she did nothing but ruin other peoples lives and the general well-being of the nation. Why should I wish her well?
 
Agent Red said:
Surely there's a middle ground between wishing her well and celebrating her death?

For me it's not a question of what she did during her time in office, it's just a general thing I object to. Even when Bin Laden or Gaddafi died, celebrating like it's Christmas morning is not something that sits right with me. You don't have to feel sad or mourn the loss of them, you can acknowledge that fact the world might be a better or safer place without them, but actively rejoicing and feeling genuine pleasure is something I find difficult to understand.
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Good post. I realise that I'm in the minority on the caf re Lady T but I don't understand the blood lust
 
I reckon she wished death on Bobby Sands, and I don't believe in eye for an eye and all that but the woman has a lot to answer for.
 
I'd like to add a disclaimer that I'm talking in general terms. If someone has lost a husband/wife etc. in 9/11 or had another such horror inflicted upon them, they may well feel pleasure at the death of Bin Laden or other tyrant, and that is a human reaction.
 
It's not blood lust, it is difficult to explain but I don't doubt that there will be a satisfaction in knowing she is no longer with us. I have seen many of my family members and entire local industries die, having suffered throughout their working life due to her policies.. perhaps its an illogical, primal urge to see her gone for good, but its there.
 
The Bin Laden scenario is a media concoction. The hatred of Thatcher is something tangible and real and goes against media consensus.

Perhaps that doesn't justify, but it illustrates her perceived misdemeanors.
 
No matter what I might think of her, can somebody explain to me why she will (apparently) have a state funeral?
 
Yes NewDawnFades and why deny it for the purposes of demonstrating just how 'pristine' your moral fibre is. I guess most wouldn't object to celebrating Hitlers death and I see little difference ideologically.
 
FortBoyard said:
I reckon she wished death on Bobby Sands, and I don't believe in eye for an eye and all that but the woman has a lot to answer for.
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It does sound a bit like eye for an eye though mate? If wishing death on someone like Bobby Sands was one of the key things you objected to, surely it's preferable to prove people like her wrong by not responding in kind?

You can argue that now she is too old and frail to notice that action, or that she wouldn't have cared either way, but out of principle isn't it better not to respond in the same way?
 
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