It would be weird if you didn't feel that way, imo. Especially when there's other forward players like Mata and Mkhi who are not pulling their weight at the moment. Which in turn creates the potential to at least try our two most exciting talents in the same team, yet we don't do it.
Marcus Rashford vs Anthony Martial (2017 / 2018 Season)
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It would be weird if you didn't feel that way, imo. Especially when there's other forward players like Mata and Mkhi who are not pulling their weight at the moment. Which in turn creates the potential to at least try our two most exciting talents in the same team, yet we don't do it.
Rashford's style of play means he can deal with different types of teams. In the case of Martial, when teams sit deep, he finds it difficult to find space, and when cutting inside he is dribbling into a sea of players.
Rashford is better equipped to deal with teams playing like this due to his skillset. That's what I meant by that, and I have always said that. Even before the Huddersfield game.
Players can have bad days, I accept that. Goes for both Martial and Rashford. It's just that the way Martial plays mean he will simply find it difficult against such teams regardless. It's why such performamces against Huddersfield will repeat itself. It's why he has to develop his game without the ball, and on the outside as well.
If we were to play Martial on the left, and Rashford on the right against teams like this, we would have Martial preferring to cut in and losing the ball due to running into a sea of players, and Rashford on the right who is also now limited as well. Not to mention Valencia is on that wing anyway. That's why I think Jose does not deploy them on each wing.
Mourinho is not picking players off game by game performances. That's because the context of games change. Different opponents set up differently. What doesn't change is the style of the player. That's why Rashford can have a poor game and still be better suited for our team.
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I've been hoping for that for a few weeks now. But I have come to the conclusion that the competition is best for them right now. It looks like both of them are pushing each other for that one starting spot and both are getting better at a rapid pace. If this means that they are both head and shoulders above the likes of Mata and Mhiki by March - I hope Jose then starts playing them together in meaningful games.
It's still a piss funny debate, as it constantly ends up with people going completely overboard in attempting to find new angles to praise / have a go at either players. The scrutiny these two are under is somewhat insane, especially compared to the debates regarding other players. It keeps changing, running with or without the ball, defensive duties, making runs, general appearance. The insane ramblings about how they are only suited for one type of match 
Then there's the absurd Martial FC posts by a user who keeps making offensive posts about dick in mouth, far up a players arse, without the mods reacting. It's priceless.
I have no idea how Martial got such a high rating after the Tottenham performance, we were generally bypassing midfield and booting it high up the pitch, meaning he was barely involved as we rarely passed the ball to him. Did well for the goal with his movement, but a 7,6 average rating, I don't see it. Same with the insane need to constantly talk up every Rashford performance, when he's not really doing anything it's apparently a very mature performance that shows how far he's come. There's no middle ground. It's golden. Both players have had brilliant performances, both players have been mediocre and both players have had very poor performances independent of what type of match or what type of opposition it is, it's expected given their age. Martial had a poor performance against Huddersfield, Rashford had a poor performance against Everton. No problem whatsoever, we really shouldn't have to rely on either one. I really don't understand, based on performances and stats, how someone can seriously claim that one is outperforming the other on the pitch.
For me, I want us to try a mobile trio of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial up front over an extended period of time. Trying it for 30 mins here and there isn't really an indication of anything. When the attacking players are allowed to drift more, it will create confusion as to how far the fullbacks should track before letting a midfielder take over, hopefully opening up space down that side for the fullback to push forward, or maybe leaving either players in a position where they are not marked by two players. Considering how poor Mkhi is at the moment, I don't think it's the worst idea to leave him out of the team for an extended period.
Then there's the absurd Martial FC posts by a user who keeps making offensive posts about dick in mouth, far up a players arse, without the mods reacting. It's priceless. I have no idea how Martial got such a high rating after the Tottenham performance, we were generally bypassing midfield and booting it high up the pitch, meaning he was barely involved as we rarely passed the ball to him. Did well for the goal with his movement, but a 7,6 average rating, I don't see it. Same with the insane need to constantly talk up every Rashford performance, when he's not really doing anything it's apparently a very mature performance that shows how far he's come. There's no middle ground. It's golden. Both players have had brilliant performances, both players have been mediocre and both players have had very poor performances independent of what type of match or what type of opposition it is, it's expected given their age. Martial had a poor performance against Huddersfield, Rashford had a poor performance against Everton. No problem whatsoever, we really shouldn't have to rely on either one. I really don't understand, based on performances and stats, how someone can seriously claim that one is outperforming the other on the pitch.
For me, I want us to try a mobile trio of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial up front over an extended period of time. Trying it for 30 mins here and there isn't really an indication of anything. When the attacking players are allowed to drift more, it will create confusion as to how far the fullbacks should track before letting a midfielder take over, hopefully opening up space down that side for the fullback to push forward, or maybe leaving either players in a position where they are not marked by two players. Considering how poor Mkhi is at the moment, I don't think it's the worst idea to leave him out of the team for an extended period.
It's still a piss funny debate, as it constantly ends up with people going completely overboard in attempting to find new angles to praise / have a go at either players. The scrutiny these two are under is somewhat insane, especially compared to the debates regarding other players. It keeps changing, running with or without the ball, defensive duties, making runs, general appearance. The insane ramblings about how they are only suited for one type of match
I have no idea how Martial got such a high rating after the Tottenham performance, we were generally bypassing midfield and booting it high up the pitch, meaning he was barely involved as we rarely passed the ball to him. Did well for the goal with his movement, but a 7,6 average rating, I don't see it. Same with the insane need to constantly talk up every Rashford performance, when he's not really doing anything it's apparently a very mature performance that shows how far he's come. There's no middle ground. It's golden. Both players have had brilliant performances, both players have been mediocre and both players have had very poor performances independent of what type of match or what type of opposition it is, it's expected given their age. Martial had a poor performance against Huddersfield, Rashford had a poor performance against Everton. No problem whatsoever, we really shouldn't have to rely on either one. I really don't understand, based on performances and stats, how someone can seriously claim that one is outperforming the other on the pitch.
For me, I want us to try a mobile trio of Rashford, Lukaku and Martial up front over an extended period of time. Trying it for 30 mins here and there isn't really an indication of anything. When the attacking players are allowed to drift more, it will create confusion as to how far the fullbacks should track before letting a midfielder take over, hopefully opening up space down that side for the fullback to push forward, or maybe leaving either players in a position where they are not marked by two players. Considering how poor Mkhi is at the moment, I don't think it's the worst idea to leave him out of the team for an extended period.
His (Martial's) first contribution to the game was the flick to Matic which lead to Lukaku's cross come shot that Lloris pushed wide, there's no denying goal aside he made a difference when he came on and probably did more in 15 minutes or so than Rashford did the entire game (in an attacking sense)
As I said, scrutiny level = insane.
I am trying to look at it from Mourinho's perspective as well. Why is Rashford preferred, why does Mata play on the right, why is Martial being effective off the bench?
Along with the fact that you can see flaws in Martial's game with your own eyes, I am putting 2 and 2 together. If Mourinho did actually say in the dressing room during the Huddersfield game that such a performance was the reason why he wanted Perisic, it's also telling.
I have said before that Martial is talented. However, I think games like the Huddersfield one will repeat himself in similar game contexts, because of his style of play. I am trying to consider different factors. When Martial was coming off the bench to score goals, I was happy. That doesn't mean the context of the game hadn't changed by then, and that the space that was avilable meant Martial was very effective.
Which players are the most effective and in which context? Martial looks the most effective with space. Rashford looks better than Martial when teams sit deeper. Martial the better dribbler, Rashford the better with his movement and attacking work rate. These are the things I consider when talking about both. I'm pretty sure the manager does too.
Along with the fact that you can see flaws in Martial's game with your own eyes, I am putting 2 and 2 together. If Mourinho did actually say in the dressing room during the Huddersfield game that such a performance was the reason why he wanted Perisic, it's also telling.
I have said before that Martial is talented. However, I think games like the Huddersfield one will repeat himself in similar game contexts, because of his style of play. I am trying to consider different factors. When Martial was coming off the bench to score goals, I was happy. That doesn't mean the context of the game hadn't changed by then, and that the space that was avilable meant Martial was very effective.
Which players are the most effective and in which context? Martial looks the most effective with space. Rashford looks better than Martial when teams sit deeper. Martial the better dribbler, Rashford the better with his movement and attacking work rate. These are the things I consider when talking about both. I'm pretty sure the manager does too.
Let's hope we can get another player in, who has pace to burn and can take a player on. Ideally in January.
I feel Jose wants to have such a player on the bench to make impact later on in games, when opposing defenders start to tire.
Until then, I don't think we will see Martial and Rashford together in the starting lineup - which is what almost every United fan is eager to see more of.
I feel Jose wants to have such a player on the bench to make impact later on in games, when opposing defenders start to tire.
Until then, I don't think we will see Martial and Rashford together in the starting lineup - which is what almost every United fan is eager to see more of.
People are so far up his arse that they want him on the right where he cant even do what he's good at.
Considering what I've been threadbanned for in the past, it's somewhat amusing that this poster is allowed to continue like this
I'd hate to see either of these kids get limited playing time, because they're both too good and exciting, and before long one of them (probably Martial) will realize he has to go to another club to fulfill his potential.
JM often favours bigger players if all else is equal.
I think Martial coming on was because JM spotted an opportunity by using Lukaku as a provider for Martial. Remember it was a very direct goal - De Gea, Lukaku, Martial and goal.
I suspect Lukaku was told to line up against Alderweireld the shortest CB with Martial expected to chase the knock downs.
I think Martial coming on was because JM spotted an opportunity by using Lukaku as a provider for Martial. Remember it was a very direct goal - De Gea, Lukaku, Martial and goal.
I suspect Lukaku was told to line up against Alderweireld the shortest CB with Martial expected to chase the knock downs.
All the way along the Rashford v Martial saga I've been on the side of Jose, and I hope United as a club (how noble of me). I think he has identified these two young players, particularly Martial, need special treatment through coaching and management of playing time/position.
While he could unleash both players in a starting line-up; one on the left and the other on the right or with/off Lukaku, depending on where you think they can effectively slot in, I don't mind the work Jose is doing with these two players.
Eventually I hope to see both tearing the league a new one as part of a starting line-up, but I'm not a fan of taking sides with one player over the other nor clamouring for them to both start.
Considering what I've been threadbanned for in the past, it's somewhat amusing that this poster is allowed to continue like this
I don't think the second comment is really offensive. I apologise for going over the top with the other two comments.
The second comment isn't offensive, it's just trolling and as far from constructive as it gets. If everyone is going to harp on about Rashford FC and Martial FC it ruins any hope of constructive debates.
I'm fairly certain he's just trolling this thread, not only are his views on Martial very transparent but he often posts in a very condescending tone.Considering what I've been threadbanned for in the past, it's somewhat amusing that this poster is allowed to continue like this
I am not trolling. Here are my viewpoints on Martial. I apologise for being condescending at times.
I think these are fair comments.
I agree, imo Zlatan returning is going to limit his playing time even further.
I feel so bad for Martial, he has four goals and two assists to his name in the league, but he doesn’t play. In total 267 minutes out of a possible 900, no wonder he isn’t consistent!
After ten games, he averages around 30 minutes pr. game. Even last year he averaged 10 minutes more over the course of the season, so let’s not conclude he is getting more chances because he clearly is not. I am sure the minutes will surpass last season eventually, but why isn’t it already?
Martial this season has less minutes than Daley Blind (!), as well as Fellaini and Pogba, both injured for many weeks. He has like 100 minutes less than Sadio Mane who has only appeared in five games.
The only thing I fear is that Martial will soon come to the conclusion that his talents are much more appreciated elsewhere. I sure as hell wouldn’t appreciate 30 minutes each game and seeing Jesse Lingard getting the same amount of chances. Lingard wouldn’t even plan for Newcastle or Burnley, so why should he play for Man Utd.
After ten games, he averages around 30 minutes pr. game. Even last year he averaged 10 minutes more over the course of the season, so let’s not conclude he is getting more chances because he clearly is not. I am sure the minutes will surpass last season eventually, but why isn’t it already?
Martial this season has less minutes than Daley Blind (!), as well as Fellaini and Pogba, both injured for many weeks. He has like 100 minutes less than Sadio Mane who has only appeared in five games.
The only thing I fear is that Martial will soon come to the conclusion that his talents are much more appreciated elsewhere. I sure as hell wouldn’t appreciate 30 minutes each game and seeing Jesse Lingard getting the same amount of chances. Lingard wouldn’t even plan for Newcastle or Burnley, so why should he play for Man Utd.
Regarding Lingard: my best guess is it's just because he's an academy kid
You think Mourinho is playing Lingard just because he is from the academy?
TBF though, martial has come out each and every time to squash rumours regarding his exit as soon as they begin to circulate
And yeah, I'm not gonna get on Jose's back now regarding this current situation and would rather wait and see how it all plays out hoping it ends with the two boys happy and a couple of silverware to boot
But to produce consistently you have to play consistently and they have not been afforded the opportunity to do that so far this season.
And I keep on hearing talk of how they're young and so are inconsistent but I don't think that is the problem here (though young players do tend to be inconsistent).
There is no player on earth who plays consistently well day in day out and even ronaldo and messi have off-days but they play them regardless and then their stats from their games when they are on fire offsets does when they are lackluster.
Take a look at Kane, he scores 2 goals in a match and then the next he doesn't do anything but overall you'd consider him consistent (yes he can go for a scoring run but he does come up with blanks for sometime too)
What I'm trying to say is martial and rashford have given the adequate amount of good performances that top players do so far this season but because they keep on getting chopped it makes their bad games more pronounced and they seem more inconsistent than they actually are
I was never sold on Rashford but time and time again he proves me wrong. Personally I don't see what makes Rashford all that special (all I see is pace and an eye for goal) but it's getting clear to me my 'analysis' regarding Rashford is wrong because the results speak otherwise.
As for Martial, I truly think and still firmly believe he is the true Golden boy that can become proper Ballon D'or level. He just needs to find his position/rhythm and all. Martial is so cool in front of goal. The old Henry comparisons aren't for nothing.
Both are great talents and I wish we focus more on them rather than try and fix limited attacking players like Mikhi and Lingard
As for Martial, I truly think and still firmly believe he is the true Golden boy that can become proper Ballon D'or level. He just needs to find his position/rhythm and all. Martial is so cool in front of goal. The old Henry comparisons aren't for nothing.
Both are great talents and I wish we focus more on them rather than try and fix limited attacking players like Mikhi and Lingard
Let's just agree to disagree 'cause there are areas in your write up that I don't agree with but I accept they're your opinion and you have a right to them.
What I will say is as @MThomas has pointed out and you have acknowledged is that your posting needs less of the antagonisms and more of the points (which seem reasonable though I don't agree with them as a whole) so that we can focus on that instead of trying to steer clear of your path
I second this post, exactly how I feel/felt about both of them down to a tee.
Rashford has slowly begun to prove me wrong this season and for the sake of Man Utd, long may it continue. I still feel martial has the higher ceiling but boy am I glad we have both of them
Not sure if this was shared here or not but these are Mourinhos thoughts on the Rashford for Martial swaps.
http://www.90min.com/posts/5740507-jose-mourinho-explains-the-crucial-differences-between-marcus-rashford-and-anthony-martial
http://www.90min.com/posts/5740507-jose-mourinho-explains-the-crucial-differences-between-marcus-rashford-and-anthony-martial
I think part of why Lingard always makes the bench is because the club want to keep that streak alive of having an academy player in the team every match for 80 years or however long it has been.
To be fair, he's scored some important goals and does bring some pace to the team late against tiring defenders, but are we going to really suggest that he's United quality?
To be fair, I watched that interview. He did not make a big deal out of that - this is what the useless press is promoting to cause trouble. He answered very well and said of course you don't want to be on the bench but he seemed fine with the situation at the moment. He also went on to praise Rashford saying how good he's been and that both of them when they are playing need to continue scoring goals and making assists.
It upsets me the way the press have spun this. But I guess you can't expect anything better from them.
Which could be an argument if Rashford wasnt involved in pretty much every match day squad.
Sure
That being said, who else besides Lingard would we really benefit from carrying each match? He's bang average but it's not like we've got a Pulisic missing out every week in favor of Lingard.
They have started 5 PL matches and drawn 4 and lost one. Maybe there is a reason why Jose has won so many trophies. We are giving our enemies ammunition by slating Jose for not starting them together. His mission is to win matches and he is winning them in his way. Let him do it and win us some more trophies.
I understand what you're saying but given the poor form of Mata and Mkhi, it's understandable that people would like to try something different.
I wonder if Fergie might not have bought Lukaku, and trusted Rashford right up top with Martial on the left.
As brilliantly as Lukaku has done, I can't escape the feeling of what an exciting proposition that would be, with a proper right winger on the other side.
As brilliantly as Lukaku has done, I can't escape the feeling of what an exciting proposition that would be, with a proper right winger on the other side.
Love both of these guys. Brilliant players
As exciting as it may be, would probably still need another striker with ibra injured Incase one of martial or rashford got injured
Don't think he wouldve gone for lukaku at all, not his type of striker. My guess he would've gone for Leroy Sane before he moved to City, and good chance he would play Martial and Rashford up top together with Sane on a wing.
Agreed. I don't think Fergie would've gone for Lukaku either.
Yeah no way. Lukaku wouldn't have been good enough technically for fergie. He'd have gone for a same as someone said above, or played rashford/martial up there (don't forget Ronaldo and Rooney were starting together in 06/07 when they were the ages martial and rashford are now).
Edit: he would also have bought an experienced player, maybe an ibra or a llorente, as backup.
Agree with the martial bit but rashford is amazing as well. So much more than pace and finishing.
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