We've obviously got the perfect formula on this. Rashers to start, Tony Martial on after the 70th. We've for the most part been devastatingly good when this has happened.
Marcus Rashford vs Anthony Martial (2017 / 2018 Season)
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Martial-Lukaku seems like a much better partnership than Rashford-Lukaku, and they seem to have a better understanding.
Rashford wouldn't have made the run Martial did.
Rashford wouldn't have made the run Martial did.
Hard to argue with the way Jose is using Martial, it might seem harsh, but it works so well.
Martial has been less effective when he has started imo.
Its just simple Martial is far better player than Rashford. I like Rashford but he never seems in control of the ball and against top sides where you will hardly get much hold of the ball, the few times you get the ball you need to make most of it, which Rashford as of now, is unable to do. So Martial to start for me always with Lukaku
How on earth can you prove such a claim?
As for whom is better, both have been more effective than our right wing options and both can play there. I don't see it as a case of one or the other. Both can be included in the team and both are not only effective as left wingers.
Rashford's not as strong as martial so not as well suited against stronger defenders
We don’t have the perfect formula at all.
For a start, our perfect attacking formula has Mkhitaryan playing every game, despite not being a good footballer.
And Rashford has also done very well from the bench too.
Do you honestly seriously think Martial is only worth being a 20 minute player for us by the way? When people respond to statements like this by saying he should probably look to leave for his own good, the response is that they are drama queens or whatever, and some sort of assessment that Martial is perfectly happy with playing for 20 mins.
Both players need to play more than 20 minutes a week if we are to realise their potential. I can’t imagine how ridiculous it would have been if one of Rooney and Ronaldo were constantly being made to come on for the other. Fergie let them both develop into world class players. And it’s not as if Mata and Mkhitaryan have not been largely shite either. It seems like it has to be anything but Martial and Rashford on the pitch, even if that means carrying an underperforming attacker or two.
It really is a crime these two never get to play together at the same time, they had a great understanding when Rashford first broke onto the scene.
Martial - Lukaku - Rashford
Makes so much sense.
Martial - Lukaku - Rashford
Makes so much sense.
The results don't lie. IIRC, Each of the games where we scorched our opponents late involved Rashford starting and Martial coming on late.
You just heard the player say that he doesn't like sitting on the bench yet your solution is to keep him on him until the last 20 minutes.
Where have you ever seen or heard of a player of martial talent being content with a sub role?
What an indvidual player wants is secondary to the success of the team. If Mourinho wants to use Rashford as a starter for the time being then the players will adapt to that.
That is beyond simplistic.
So what happens when we bring start Rashford and bring Martial on late and we don’t scorch an opponent? Do we now reassess? Or when we start Martial and Rashford comes on to make an impact, as happened against Leicester and Huddersfield. Does that now become the ‘perfect formula’? Does Mkhitaryan become part of our best XI because we have won many games he started? What about when neither make a huge impact, like against Liverpool. Do you toss a coin next match?
You can’t pick a team based on some sort of narrative. Players should play based on form and ability, unless the formation makes their role redundant.
Surely you just play your best players? You generally tend to take an irritation to anything that resembles ‘caf trend’, and perhaps the clamour for Martial to start more fits into that category for you, hence the need to counter-rationalise. We have forwards starting who are not even playing well, it shouldn’t even be a debate.
Why would a manager scratch his head and think ‘which of Mata and Mkhitaryan would be least shit?’ when we have two form wide players?
It has also worked the other way around. Your suggestion is silly and doesn't take everything into account.
The fact that you're actually suggested for Martial to have a supersub role is in itself absurd. It clearly shows that you've failed to take everything into account, starting with whether the player would be happy with such role which he obviously wouldn't.
Whatever Mourinho has been doing is working so let's allow it to continue to work. If it doesn't work at some point then he will make the appropriate adjustments.
Nice one
That's how Mourinho has been using him and its largely worked. I doubt Mourinho cares about hurting a player's feelings because he's used more as a sub as a starter. The success of the team is paramount.
Then when people suggest for Martial to leave for his own good you'd be the first to call out on those people and call them drama queens. Do you actually read the stuff you're writing.
Player-manager relationship is a 2 way streets. The respect and rewards have to be mutual. Martial isn't of talent that would only be content and required to play a sub role, something you've failed to grasp.
I'm done you're stubborn.
No one suggested it would be like this until the end of time, just as long as it works. The team is more important than one player and if something is working then it will continue to be considered in the next match. Its not rocket science.
Reality bites.
Martial FC in full flow. Why would anyone suggest for Martial to leave the club you support when he is getting goals and assists and putting in good performances?
Which is again, a ridiculous and simple logic.
Still, I know what you’re like on such debates so I’ll take my objections down the road.
I really don't understand this mentality. Someone is more likely to score so you limit his chances to 20 mins a game. Then you replace him with someone who may run around a lot more but is not as clinical? It 'works' because we're winning games, when we probably would have won more convincingly otherwise?
I dont think my position is particularly hard to grasp. We have a winning formula under the current setup and are likely to continue to employ it. Let's see what Mourinho does next weekend - likely the exact same thing.
Because that is when he has demonstrated he scores. When he starts he has been less effective.
I'd prefer to see how Mkhi does as a super sub than one of Rashford/Martial for a couple or so games. I'm sure Mata would be a fine sub as his movement against tiring teams would be an asset, but Mkhi's speed against fatigued teams could be one, too.
How many times has Rashford been ineffective...but he still starts. I guarantee you, if Martial had a run of games, he would start to tear this league up. You can just see that he's just on the verge but not getting that chance to gain any momentum. I would start him over Rashford every time....and let Rashford do the impact stuff until HE can show that he warrants an automatic start. It's a great dilemma to have but no-one can tell me that Martial isn't the better player at the moment.
Suppose, but Mkhi's main skill this season has more been in his general assisting as opposed to overall play. I'm not sure he benefits from being brought off the bench at all in that respect, whereas the pace/energy of Martial/Rashford seems more effective in that regard.
I don't disagree, I just see Mourinho as the type of coach who is likely to toy with something he thinks is working at the moment. Also, if people think Martial isn't getting enough minutes now, just wait til December when Zlatan gets thrown into the mix. Everyone who thinks they know our ideal lineup will be up in arms because their preferred player isn't getting enough minutes.
We have to learn from torrid peformances like todays rather than keeping everything the same just because we won. That is certainly not how teams improve.
Zlatan will be our impact sub...for Lukaku, which will give him some needed rest during the season. There will still be room for Martial and Rashford. It's still baffling why they both don't start to be fair.
True, but I think the reason his overall play has been lacking is due to his physicality (and mentality) so, if he were to come on fresh against a tired opposition, we might see him do some nice stuff. He's a very direct player and is quite fast when dribbling but is easily out-muscled which might happen less if he were fresher than the opponent.
You look at our attack and it's only really Lukaku, Rashford and Martial somewhat delivering yet they haven't played one game together. I'm not saying it's a guaranteed success, but surely it's worth a shot when we'd still have options on the bench in Mkhi, Mata and Lingard. Still, I can understand not trying it at the moment, but once Fellaini, Zlatan and Pogba are back I'd hope to see José give it a shot. Bar the odd league cup game I don't think Martial and Rashford started together once last year too, if I remember correctly.
Yep, we do have to be flexible, although again, I'm not expecting any changes from Mourinho next weekend.
That I agree with.
This thread changes from Rashford being the better player to Martial being the better every week depending on who plays well. They are both terrific, talented albeit inconsistent youngsters. They have similar skill-sets with some key differences.
They should both develop into being future United stars.
Today, I thought Rashford was quite good, he stretched Spurs defence quite well and had a few good moments.
They should both develop into being future United stars.
Today, I thought Rashford was quite good, he stretched Spurs defence quite well and had a few good moments.
Martial should play where mikhi does. What does mikhi offer? No defense, No awareness at times, bad passing, and no strength for hold up. Doesnt hurt to try it.
We know this. But acknowledging both qualities, it surprises me he's not interested in using them both. The lack of attacking depth might have something to do with it.
"Is more comfortable"? What a cowardly way to downplay Martial´s style.
And sadly I was misled by that poster. Doesn't seem to be anything wrong with Jose's comments.
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