Marcus Rashford (Out) | Rashford: “For me, personally, I think I'm ready for a new challenge and the next steps.”

[red_de_pologne]

Defending what? People making stuff up to suit their narratives? Rashford and Garnacho were dropped due to their performances not being good enough, they were not dropped because they are disrupting the dressing room. Of course he said it's better to speak to the manager but he didn't say he was dropped for that, he's not in the squad as its ill. Amorim has clearly said in his previous press conference if people are dropped for disciplinary reasons, he would say so.

He was dropped for lack of professionalism, correct application, whatever you want to call it (the way you train, play, dress, eat, push your team mates etc.) Same goes for Garnacho.

Then Garnacho went on to "train well" and Rashford did the interview, which is an unnecessary turbulence around the club, caused by a selfish act from a player. Something Amorim alluded to not being overly happy about and dealing with it internally. It disrupts whatever Amorim is doing when he has to focus on Rashford and answer 11 questions about Rashford and 0 about the actual game coming up.

 

[TheGame]

He was dropped for lack of professionalism, correct application, whatever you want to call it (the way you train, play, dress, eat, push your team mates etc.) Same goes for Garnacho.

Then Garnacho went on to "train well" and Rashford did the interview, which is an unnecessary turbulence around the club, caused by a selfish act from a player. Something Amorim alluded to not being overly happy about and dealing with it internally. It disrupts whatever Amorim is doing when he has to focus on Rashford and answer 11 questions about Rashford and 0 about the actual game coming up.

The press are the press, they act those questions. Happens all of the time. Amorim said he should have spoken to him, he wasn't dropped for disrupting the dressing room nor has anyone said he is though. That is the point.

 

[devilish]

Does this mean we will re-call Sancho and let Amorim assess him over the second half of the season?

We can't and we shouldn't. Player power must end at United. No more PR stunts, no more National team > Manchester United, no more excuses as of why players aren't acting unprofessional or not delivering etc. We're a football club not a charity, not a hospital, not a mental clinic.... a football club.

 

[devilish]

He was dropped for lack of professionalism, correct application, whatever you want to call it (the way you train, play, dress, eat, push your team mates etc.) Same goes for Garnacho.

Then Garnacho went on to "train well" and Rashford did the interview, which is an unnecessary turbulence around the club, caused by a selfish act from a player. Something Amorim alluded to not being overly happy about and dealing with it internally. It disrupts whatever Amorim is doing when he has to focus on Rashford and answer 11 questions about Rashford and 0 about the actual game coming up.

We speak a lot about Rashy but Garnacho is a big concern as well. According to Rhoades this is the 4 disciplinary action taken on Garnacho and he's still 20 years old. He got himself in boiling water when he chose Ronaldo over Messi (Argentinians don't like that) and on the pitch he's already a prima donna

I'd say sell him. We need to get rid of all bad apples

 

[Tango80]

We speak a lot about Rashy but Garnacho is a big concern as well. According to Rhoades this is the 4 disciplinary action taken on Garnacho and he's still 20 years old. He got himself in boiling water when he chose Ronaldo over Messi (Argentinians don't like that) and on the pitch he's already a prima donna

I'd say sell him. We need to get rid of all bad apples

Tbf you're asking a 20 year old to behave like a grown up there. When he's not.

I have concerns about him, and we need to see him kick on. But we also need to give him time to grow up and mature.

 

[Sandikan]

. He got himself in boiling water when he chose Ronaldo over Messi (Argentinians don't like that)

This is hardly a disciplinary issue is it?!

 

[Sandikan]

We speak a lot about Rashy but Garnacho is a big concern as well. According to Rhoades this is the 4 disciplinary action taken on Garnacho and he's still 20 years old. He got himself in boiling water when he chose Ronaldo over Messi (Argentinians don't like that) and on the pitch he's already a prima donna

I'd say sell him. We need to get rid of all bad apples

And Rashy is constantly outed for just standing there going through the motions instead of trying to tackle someone a metre away.
I don't think anyone questions Garnacho's work rate do they?

 

[Tango80]

And Rashy is constantly outed for just standing there going through the motions instead of trying to tackle someone a metre away.
I don't think anyone questions Garnacho's work rate do they?

Casemiro did a month or so ago for him not tracking back.

 

[devilish]

Tbf you're asking a 20 year old to behave like a grown up there. When he's not.

I have concerns about him, and we need to see him kick on. But we also need to give him time to grow up and mature.

4 times mate and he's not even 21. Now Giggs was 10 times the player Garnacho was. I was around at the time and believe me the popularity surrounding the man was way higher then Messi's from temu. The real Messi? The same. Ronaldo? The same, fat Ronaldo? the same. We have to get into our thick skulls that talent while extremely important is secondary to success. What truly matters is one's attitude.

 

[SilentWitness]

We speak a lot about Rashy but Garnacho is a big concern as well. According to Rhoades this is the 4 disciplinary action taken on Garnacho and he's still 20 years old. He got himself in boiling water when he chose Ronaldo over Messi (Argentinians don't like that) and on the pitch he's already a prima donna

I'd say sell him. We need to get rid of all bad apples

If I were in the position of United then I'd say Garnacho has youth on his side. From the outside looking in there are little to no role models in the squad or leaders in professionalism and merit. His role models are people like Bruno who is known for his petulance or Rashford who is in the headlines again.

It does appear like Amorim is trying to change that culture though and has the demeanour to. He probably won't hand out too many chances but I think he would be more lenient and intelligent enough to observe those dynamics.

 

[Tincanalley]

He gave the press an easy talking point to pile onto Amorim

You've already seen it in the prematch press conference against Spurs, pretty much every single question is about about Rashford and Amorim is visibly annoyed about this too.

For now, Amorim has managed to brilliantly answer them as diplomatically as possible. But it won't stop, you just know the questions will keep coming in all of our upcoming games.

If I'm being cynical, I think that's exactly what Rashford is after. He does not have the best interest of the club at heart, in fact I'd go as far to say he is actively trying to sabotage the team's harmony

If I was INEOS, I'd get the press officer to ban all questions pertaining to Rashford and freeze Rashford out of the squad Sancho/Ronaldo style then fecked him off the moment the January window opens. This is the type of dressing room virus Mourinho was talking about.

Great well written post - and dead right too

 

[devilish]

If I were in the position of United then I'd say Garnacho has youth on his side. From the outside looking in there are little to no role models in the squad or leaders in professionalism and merit. His role models are people like Bruno who is known for his petulance or Rashford who is in the headlines again.

It does appear like Amorim is trying to change that culture though and has the demeanour to. He probably won't hand out too many chances but I think he would be more lenient and intelligent enough to observe those dynamics.

What is leadership? Cantona kung fu kicked a person, Schmeichel got in a spat with Keane because he was reluctant in giving the captain band back after Keane returned from injury, Keane used to dangerously tackle any new comer just to show them that he could, Robson drank like a sponge, Ince was a renowned ahole, Gaz would go in one of those controversial arguments even if he's in an empty room with just a mirror in it and Teddy + Cole didn't talk for years on a spat that would make even 6 year old girls blush. There's very few 'Captain America' like Captains :cough Maldini :cough: Javier Zanetti :cough:. The rest are very flawed people who put the team first. When you put things into that perspective then De Ligt (Ajax captain in his teens) is a leader, Mazraoui is a leader, Maguire is a leader, Casemiro is ancient but he's a leader, Martinez and Bruno are certainly leaders


Irrespective of that there's no excuse to act the way Garnacho is acting. Diallo is just 2 years older then him and had been mistreated at this club. Yet he's got more maturity in him then most of this club put together.

Now I can understand that the club want to give Garnacho a second chance. Many players are on the way out and Rome wasn't built in a day. But I do hope that if a decent offer comes in our way then we'll sell. Let's send the message out there that we mean business

 

[SilentWitness]

What is leadership? Cantona kung fu kicked a person, Schmeichel got in a spat with Keane because he was reluctant in giving the captain band back after Keane returned from injury, Keane used to dangerously tackle any new comer just to show them that he could, Robson drank like a sponge, Ince was a renowned ahole, Gaz would go in one of those controversial arguments even if he's in an empty room with just a mirror in it and Teddy + Cole didn't talk for years on a spat that would make even 6 year old girls blush. There's very few 'Captain America' like Captains :cough Maldini :cough: Javier Zanetti :cough:. The rest are very flawed people who put the team first. When you put things into that perspective then De Ligt (Ajax captain in his teens) is a leader, Mazraoui is a leader, Maguire is a leader, Martinez and Bruno are certainly leaders.

It is too early to say that in regards to De Ligt and Mazraoui at United and in relation to Garnacho due to only being there this season. I wouldn't say we have seen Martinez be a leader in the sense of those mentioned either.

My point was regarding their example in training and on the pitch in terms of footballing professionalism. Bruno is not a good example in that respect in my opinion as he regularly shows his petulance and frustrations. Similarly Rashford hasn't been a good example on the pitch or in training either.

 

[John XII]

He gave the press an easy talking point to pile onto Amorim

You've already seen it in the prematch press conference against Spurs, pretty much every single question is about about Rashford and Amorim is visibly annoyed about this too.

For now, Amorim has managed to brilliantly answer them as diplomatically as possible. But it won't stop, you just know the questions will keep coming in all of our upcoming games.

If I'm being cynical, I think that's exactly what Rashford is after. He does not have the best interest of the club at heart, in fact I'd go as far to say he is actively trying to sabotage the team's harmony

If I was INEOS, I'd get the press officer to ban all questions pertaining to Rashford and freeze Rashford out of the squad Sancho/Ronaldo style then fecked him off the moment the January window opens. This is the type of dressing room virus Mourinho was talking about.

The upside to this is it takes the focus away from everything else and allows the rest of the squad to get their heads down.

 

[Withnail]

This is hardly a disciplinary issue is it?!

No it's a complete non sequitur and a bit odd in the context. The lad's allowed to choose a favourite player.

I think Garnacho will be fine though. He'll put his head down, say nothing and work hard.

Not like the other lad who spouting off to the media about how he's ready to leave. He does himself absolutely no favours at all.

 

[Shark]

No it's a complete non sequitur and a bit odd in the context. The lad's allowed to choose a favourite player.

I think Garnacho will be fine though. He'll put his head down, say nothing and work hard.

Not like the other lad who binned off training on Monday with a fever the day before visiting a bunch of kids, which doesn't seem all too clever, and spouting off to the media about how he's ready to leave. He does himself absolutely no favours at all.

Those trying to lump Garnacho in with somebody like Rashford is moronic.

 

[Kaos]

I want him gone, mostly to end this circus. An entire pre-match conference dominated by questions on a player who's never really consistently proven he's 'that guy'. To call it boring at this point would be an understatement.

 

[Big Andy]

No it's a complete non sequitur and a bit odd in the context. The lad's allowed to choose a favourite player.

I think Garnacho will be fine though. He'll put his head down, say nothing and work hard.

Not like the other lad who binned off training on Monday with a fever the day before visiting a bunch of kids, which doesn't seem all too clever, and spouting off to the media about how he's ready to leave. He does himself absolutely no favours at all.

To be fair to Rashford the school visit was Monday on a day off, and then he was sent home from training with a temperature on Tuesday.

 

[gajender]

Those trying to lump Garnacho in with somebody like Rashford is moronic.

Lumping Garnacho with Rashford is definitely wrong but lesson needs to be learned , United have to be better in assessing the actual talent of the players and reward them accordingly .

Wages and expectations needs to be inline with talent , just stop overrating and hyping up middling talent it only leads to disappointment and toxicity when they inevitably fail to meet expectations .

 

[The Cat]

To be fair to Rashford the school visit was Monday on a day off, and then he was sent home from training with a temperature on Tuesday.

On the other side Henry Winter was on the radio yesterday saying his interview was originally planned for the week before so Rashford's statement actually had nothing to do with him being omitted against City it was already planned.

 

[Withnail]

To be fair to Rashford the school visit was Monday on a day off, and then he was sent home from training with a temperature on Tuesday.

Ahhh ok. I saw it being reported, or more likely I misread it, as the day after which made no sense to me at all.
Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[devilish]

It is too early to say that in regards to De Ligt and Mazraoui at United and in relation to Garnacho due to only being there this season. I wouldn't say we have seen Martinez be a leader in the sense of those mentioned either.

My point was regarding their example in training and on the pitch in terms of footballing professionalism. Bruno is not a good example in that respect in my opinion as he regularly shows his petulance and frustrations. Similarly Rashford hasn't been a good example on the pitch or in training either.

I understand your point. However f what's the difference between Garnacho and the likes of Amad, Mainoo, and Hojlund? Aren't they all relatively young and playing for the same team?

TBF INEOS is managing the squad way better then the Glazers did so if they give Garnacho another chance then we have to trust them. I can also understand why they might be reluctant to sell both players at the same time. First of all Rome wasn't built in a day a well and there's a limit to how much talent one can sell in a 1-2 transfer windows. Secondly it makes zero financial sense in building an association between the two (ie Garnacho is as problematic as Rashford is) else one's value will drag down the other. I wont be surprised if that was the reason why INEOS refused to sell Rashy last summer (ie not to have him being associated with Sancho). However while I sympathize with their and your POV I insist that if a good offer comes to our way for Garnacho (50m for example) then we should consider selling.

 

[Denis79]

How is this interview not disruptive to the dressing room? For that matter how is refusing to actually put effort on the pitch not disruptive?

No shit! it is disruptive, he could have been a professional, talk to the manager and club and say he wants to leave, instead he vents it in public. Can honestly feck off. I was nice and wished him well before I heard he did an interview.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

No shit! it is disruptive, he could have been a professional, talk to the manager and club and say he wants to leave, instead he vents it in public. Can honestly feck off. I was nice and wished him well before I heard he did an interview.

He also mentioned recently he will never say anything bad about Man United. He wouldn't be that guy. Good guy Marcus.

 

[RedRoach]

His PR team and entourage really are incredible.

I feel really sad he is leaving considering what a breath of fresh air he was in a boring LVG side but he only has himself to blame for it coming to this point.

The way he has manipulated the media to portray him as some kind of victim in this is honestly pathetic. Yes he is homegrown, yes he has been at the club since he was a kid and yes he is United through and through but so were Lingard and McT.

The fans pushed both Lingard and McT out of the club and both were constantly criticized for performances that were not good enough. Neither went doing interviews with the press to portray themselves as some kind of victim and got a network of journalists to write “poor Rashford” stories.

Your performances have not been good enough Rashford, for TWO years. Take ownership of that and deal with it. Stop acting like a victim when you are not. Anybody with a pair of eyes can see a total lack of commitment and interest in your performances over a sustained period. The England coach could see this and dropped you. End of.

 

[RDCR07]

Those trying to lump Garnacho in with somebody like Rashford is moronic.

Well sure it isn’t as bad as Rashy but if it’s true that he is the source of the leaks then that’s pretty bad as well just cause your brother can get a few more followers as an “influencer”.

 

[TheGame]

No. Amorim listed reasons including "how they interact with their team mates" and whether they "lift their team mates up".

Not twisting any words, if Amorim wasn't worried about how they act within the dressing room and around their team mates he obviously wouldn't say things like that at all. If you cant read between the lines, or refuse to, whatever.

He said it mixed in with everything else so you are twisting one part to your own narrative. It was even alongside the 'what they eat' comment. Garnacho under the same comment. It's quite clear what you are doing with no evidence whatsoever.

 

[TheGame]

No what is clear is what Amorim was doing when he chose to call them out as negative influences off the pitch with his carefully chosen words. At least to everyone not being wilfully ignorant.

Neither are people inventing stuff to suit their own narratives. It's quite clear what the manager said, you twist it anyway you want.

 

[Utterly De Ligt'd]

We speak a lot about Rashy but Garnacho is a big concern as well. According to Rhoades this is the 4 disciplinary action taken on Garnacho and he's still 20 years old. He got himself in boiling water when he chose Ronaldo over Messi (Argentinians don't like that) and on the pitch he's already a prima donna

I'd say sell him. We need to get rid of all bad apples

He's not even Argentine, maybe that is more the reasoning. I was born in Canada, my dad was born in the Netherlands, I got my citizenship through that, so I like to tell people I am Dutch (Dutch-Canadian) because, well who the feck would want to be canadian? But I really am not Dutch, I have Dutch heritage that I choose to embrace, Dutch citizenship on paper, but I am born and raised Canadian. Garnacho is born and raised Spanish, born in Madrid, father is spanish, played for Spain until U18s, he is born and raised Spanish. He got citizenship through his mom and choose the national team that seemed to be on the rise. That is far more likely to be the cause of them not taking to him then him doing the SUI.

Let's not forget that Argentina didn't take to Messi for years because he spent most of his life in Spain and seemed to play way better for Barcelona then Argentina, he wasn't viewed as Argentine enough for years.

 

[stepic]

He's played his last game for Utd, he won't be back. I expect he'll be sold the first week in Jan, they won't want it to drag out for any longer

Can’t see him going that quickly - it’s gonna be a difficult sell

 

[devilish]

He's not even Argentine, maybe that is more the reasoning. I was born in Canada, my dad was born in the Netherlands, I got my citizenship through that, so I like to tell people I am Dutch (Dutch-Canadian) because, well who the feck would want to be canadian? But I really am not Dutch, I have Dutch heritage that I choose to embrace, Dutch citizenship on paper, but I am born and raised Canadian. Garnacho is born and raised Spanish, born in Madrid, father is spanish, played for Spain until U18s, he is born and raised Spanish. He got citizenship through his mom and choose the national team that seemed to be on the rise. That is far more likely to be the cause of them not taking to him then him doing the SUI.

Let's not forget that Argentina didn't take to Messi for years because he spent most of his life in Spain and seemed to play way better for Barcelona then Argentina, he wasn't viewed as Argentine enough for years.

I am Maltese. Malta is a small island, Argentina is a huge country, they are located in different continents, Argentina develop great football talent while we are kind of shit in football. Yet there are two things all Maltese know about Argentina.

A- Football is serious business in Argentina. Its way more serious then it is in Germany and in England to the point that no one in those countries would shoot you because you criticized Rooney/Klinsmann but in Argentina you risk being shot if you go too hard on the likes of Maradona

B- Messi is their football equivalent of Jesus. The relationship they have with Maradona is pretty much what we've got with Best. Ok he was a great talent etc but we knew about his dark side. But Messi is different. We're going into Sir Bobby's territory here ie a top person on and off the pitch that brought piles of trophies that made the fans happy.

Thus anyone wearing the Argentinian shirt must know that saying that Ronaldo is better then Messi is asking for trouble. Its like Diallo doing an interview with MUTV and say "you know what? I think that Gerrard was probably better then Charlton ever was and he's certainly better then Scholes" A player doesn't do that unless a- he's a moron, b- he's got that defiant nature. Both of whom are bad news for any club investing time and money on.

I am not saying that we should lose hope on Garnacho. People might change when they grow older. All I am saying is that we need to be aware of this. If a huge transfer fee comes in then we should ask ourselves if its worth keeping such players who

a- doesn't really fit in our system
b- has such defiant nature
c- he has already multiple disciplinary episodes with us

Cause let's be honest here. We've got a lot of great young talent coming through and INEOS seems set to invest in more. If Garnacho is a bad apple (I stress on the IF) then we don't really want him anywhere near to these players

 

[Smores]

No what is clear is what Amorim was doing when he chose to call them out as negative influences off the pitch with his carefully chosen words. At least to everyone not being wilfully ignorant.

Nah he was just saying 'boo-urns'.

I really don't understand why there's even an argument here as to whether Amorim was saying he's a negative influence. He was fecking dropped for not meeting standards, in what world is that not a negative influence

 

[poleglass red]

What is leadership? Cantona kung fu kicked a person, Schmeichel got in a spat with Keane because he was reluctant in giving the captain band back after Keane returned from injury, Keane used to dangerously tackle any new comer just to show them that he could, Robson drank like a sponge, Ince was a renowned ahole, Gaz would go in one of those controversial arguments even if he's in an empty room with just a mirror in it and Teddy + Cole didn't talk for years on a spat that would make even 6 year old girls blush. There's very few 'Captain America' like Captains :cough Maldini :cough: Javier Zanetti :cough:. The rest are very flawed people who put the team first. When you put things into that perspective then De Ligt (Ajax captain in his teens) is a leader, Mazraoui is a leader, Maguire is a leader, Casemiro is ancient but he's a leader, Martinez and Bruno are certainly leaders


Irrespective of that there's no excuse to act the way Garnacho is acting. Diallo is just 2 years older then him and had been mistreated at this club. Yet he's got more maturity in him then most of this club put together.

Now I can understand that the club want to give Garnacho a second chance. Many players are on the way out and Rome wasn't built in a day. But I do hope that if a decent offer comes in our way then we'll sell. Let's send the message out there that we mean business

The difference with the likes of Cantona, Schmeical, Keane, Robson, Ince, Nev, Teddy and Cole is they made players around them better, they drove them on. You could throw Vidic in there as well, Rooney mentioned on the overlap that Vidic would fall out with players and not speak to them for months, but that didn't transfer onto the pitch. Not sure Rashford makes players around him better, certainly the version we've seen last 18 months

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

The difference with the likes of Cantona, Schmeical, Keane, Robson, Ince, Nev, Teddy and Cole is they made players around them better, they drove them on. You could throw Vidic in there as well, Rooney mentioned on the overlap that Vidic would fall out with players and not speak to them for months, but that didn't transfer onto the pitch. Not sure Rashford makes players around him better, certainly the version we've seen last 18 months

Personally i think all of them would be shit and fighting and egotistical post SAF.

SAF was the manager that balanced everything out and we havent had that manager since his retirement. Hopefully Amorim is that man and its looking good so far.

 

[CM]

If I were in the position of United then I'd say Garnacho has youth on his side. From the outside looking in there are little to no role models in the squad or leaders in professionalism and merit. His role models are people like Bruno who is known for his petulance or Rashford who is in the headlines again.

It does appear like Amorim is trying to change that culture though and has the demeanour to. He probably won't hand out too many chances but I think he would be more lenient and intelligent enough to observe those dynamics.

Garnacho certainly isn't at the point of no return Rashford is at but there are a few concerns with him. There were a couple of things early in Ten Hag's stint in terms of lateness and leaving one of the matches early, he's definitely guilty of the gesticulating on the pitch (although perhaps a learned behaviour from the likes of Bruno and Ronaldo) and then most recently it sounds like some of the leaks are coming from him.

I'd like to think we've got a manager now who will nip this in the bud but if not, I wouldn't be that upset to see Garnacho go. He can still be moulded to fit this system but only if his attitude is right.

 

[The Firestarter]

I am Maltese. Malta is a small island, Argentina is a huge country, they are located in different continents, Argentina develop great football talent while we are kind of shit in football. Yet there are two things all Maltese know about Argentina.

A- Football is serious business in Argentina. Its way more serious then it is in Germany and in England to the point that no one in those countries would shoot you because you criticized Rooney/Klinsmann but in Argentina you risk being shot if you go too hard on the likes of Maradona

B- Messi is their football equivalent of Jesus. The relationship they have with Maradona is pretty much what we've got with Best. Ok he was a great talent etc but we knew about his dark side. But Messi is different. We're going into Sir Bobby's territory here ie a top person on and off the pitch that brought piles of trophies that made the fans happy.

Thus anyone wearing the Argentinian shirt must know that saying that Ronaldo is better then Messi is asking for trouble. Its like Diallo doing an interview with MUTV and say "you know what? I think that Gerrard was probably better then Charlton ever was and he's certainly better then Scholes" A player doesn't do that unless a- he's a moron, b- he's got that defiant nature. Both of whom are bad news for any club investing time and money on.

I am not saying that we should lose hope on Garnacho. People might change when they grow older. All I am saying is that we need to be aware of this. If a huge transfer fee comes in then we should ask ourselves if its worth keeping such players who

a- doesn't really fit in our system
b- has such defiant nature
c- he has already multiple disciplinary episodes with us

Cause let's be honest here. We've got a lot of great young talent coming through and INEOS seems set to invest in more. If Garnacho is a bad apple (I stress on the IF) then we don't really want him anywhere near to these players

I think the point about Maradona and Messi is actually the exact opposite. Maradona is God because he was much more relatable to the average person , grew up and played there, and the flaws were actually what made him "real" .

Messi on the other hand went to Spain very young and never really played club football in Argentina. His media engagements were largely controlled by PR agencies and people never managed to really get to know him in the same way as Maradona.

Admittedly, this was the state I knew of before their WC win. Perceptions can change.

 

[Globule]

Personally i think all of them would be shit and fighting and egotistical post SAF.

SAF was the manager that balanced everything out and we havent had that manager since his retirement. Hopefully Amorim is that man and its looking good so far.

It's not just SAF, the players had certain standards. There's been a leadership vacuum in our dressing room for the longest time now, and we find ourselves in a situation where young players coming into the team are seeing the examples set by the likes of Rashford.

 

[John XII]

Not that I would want him now but getting in FDJ after ETH has gone would be some great humor

ten Hag would be sat at home tearing his hair out.

 

[devilish]

The difference with the likes of Cantona, Schmeical, Keane, Robson, Ince, Nev, Teddy and Cole is they made players around them better, they drove them on. You could throw Vidic in there as well, Rooney mentioned on the overlap that Vidic would fall out with players and not speak to them for months, but that didn't transfer onto the pitch. Not sure Rashford makes players around him better, certainly the version we've seen last 18 months

My point is that the 'classical leader' who is born perfect and would put everyone in place by his presence is rare. Paolo Maldini was like that. You should see that interview with Schmeichel, Henry, Carra and Richards. The latter melted into his presence and were giggling like teenager girls in front of prime Elvis.

The likes of Keane, Vidic, Cantona and co were 'common mortals', each with their own agenda (money, personal success, their reputation, their ego) with different skills and levels of IQ who understood that the only way they could achieve those goals was to make sure that everyone would pull the same rope. I can see many players at the club who do that from Martinez to Maguire right to Mazraoui, Bruno and De Ligt. Young talent like Amad and Hojlund have the foundations of being leaders as well.

Regarding Rashford, I do wonder if he sees United as the most important thing in his career or simply an ends to a means (charity work, popularity, ability to buy stuff that wouldn't be possible if he wasn't a pro player etc). The same thing can be said about the kids of that generation (give or take) such as Ravel, Lingard and Pogba who seemed to have thrown their career away due to lack of commitment.

 

[Tango80]

No. Amorim listed reasons including "how they interact with their team mates" and whether they "lift their team mates up".

Not twisting any words, if Amorim wasn't worried about how they act within the dressing room and around their team mates he obviously wouldn't say things like that at all. If you cant read between the lines, or refuse to, whatever.

You're deliberately cherry picking comments out of context here.