Marcus Rashford (Out) | Ornstein: United want to keep, will only consider substantial bids

Rojofiam said:
That one's fine up until the 8 second mark where he admittedly could've done a bit more. Still, it's getting blown out of proportion.



What is there to explain? Yeah, there are some clips in there where he should've done more, but like I said, it's 99% likely that he's being told to conserve energy. And some of these clips are incredibly stupid anyways, especially the ones where he's left 1v1 against a Newcastle player on the wing and if he gets beaten after putting his leg in for a tackle, we get opened up. "Not defending close enough" :lol: The person who put that video together has 0 clue about maintaining shape and what Rashford was supposed to do in most of those situations. Basically from 0:42 until like 1:15 it's complete bullshit and Rashford doesn't do anything wrong in those 30 seconds.
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Are you joking? hes literally leaving his team mates in the shit by making zero effort in every single minute of those clips.

"likely that he's being told to conserve energy." Hes a fecking 26 year old premier league footballer.

You'd think we had just wheeled Paul Scholes out of retirement with a statement like that.
 
Von Mistelroum said:
If we don't get him out this summer then the club are clueless. Any way to remove him will do, loan, cheap sale, hell, I'd take a free transfer even to get good attitude out of the club. It's not like he cost us anything.
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I doubt we are so lucky. He will annoy us next season and out his contract. Will probably wake up his last season again just in time to get a extension.
 
Rojofiam said:
That one's fine up until the 8 second mark where he admittedly could've done a bit more. Still, it's getting blown out of proportion.



What is there to explain? Yeah, there are some clips in there where he should've done more, but like I said, it's 99% likely that he's being told to conserve energy. And some of these clips are incredibly stupid anyways, especially the ones where he's left 1v1 against a Newcastle player on the wing and if he gets beaten after putting his leg in for a tackle, we get opened up. "Not defending close enough" :lol: The person who put that video together has 0 clue about maintaining shape and what Rashford was supposed to do in most of those situations. Basically from 0:42 until like 1:15 it's complete bullshit and Rashford doesn't do anything wrong in those 30 seconds.
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Ok, so just from .42 to 1.15. It's not just about holding shape or positioning, he can use his body shape to force a player down the line or cut out a passing angle, he could be more aggresive in his tackling and pressing.

Stands up, throws a token leg out, gets beaten far too easily - just gives up.

Player dribbles inside - he turns his arse and runs the wrong way.

Holds the player up /not really defending too far away, although he could be tighter. But yet they still have the option of going either side of him with ease. He's not doing anything to close an angle or force the player down the side, you could have a mannequin there and it would do the same job.

And to top it off sees Livramento run free down the wing while he just stands and watches him go.

But yeah, he did nothing wrong at all in those 30 seconds.
 
Hopefully United will be reasonable and set a realistic price

Best for everyone if he leaves. As long as it's not Spain :nervous:
 
Malons said:
If he was told to conserve energy, would there not be dozens of examples of him going like balls in matches, applying all his conserved energy in matches to awesome affect?

Unless he's told to conserve energy but silly Billy Ten Hag forgets to tell him to take the reigns off so he conserves energy just to slowly walk off the pitch at the end of the game?

The conspiracy that exists around Rashford, and the excuses, are pitiful.
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Yeah, the argument that he's being instructed to conserve energy is bollocks. I watched him come on for 10 minutes vs Newcastle and he was just jogging around for most of it. There's no reason why he shouldn't be sprinting to close down an opposition player when he's fresh off the bench with a few minutes of the game remaining.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Yeah, the argument that he's being instructed to conserve energy is bollocks. I watched him come on for 10 minutes vs Newcastle and he was just jogging around for most of it. There's no reason why he shouldn't be sprinting to close down an opposition player when he's fresh off the bench with a few minutes of the game remaining.
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Why would he need to conserve his energy? Is he that unfit? He doesn't do much with attacking either.
 
Hammondo said:
Why would he need to conserve his energy? Is he that unfit? He doesn't do much with attacking either.
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We can't know for sure, but I think he's worried about being finished in his 20s, so he's holding off sprinting when possible to prolong his career.
 
Paddymcc said:
Are you joking? hes literally leaving his team mates in the shit by making zero effort in every single minute of those clips.

"likely that he's being told to conserve energy." Hes a fecking 26 year old premier league footballer.

You'd think we had just wheeled Paul Scholes out of retirement with a statement like that.
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If Rashford starts running around like a headless chicken for the whole game just so it doesn't seem like he's lazy, he'll be knackered by the 60th minute and will need subbing off or won't have the energy late into the game, like any footballer would. Do you want that from a player who has one of the most late / stoppage time goals in Premier League history?

Rashford isn't the only forward in transition-heavy teams that doesn't track back as much as their teammates.
 
People really going with this conserving energy angle. Was Martial also conserving energy?
 
Rojofiam said:
You choose to ignore several things.

No manager has ever called him out for laziness unless I forgot about something. No manager has benched him for similar reasons either. You really think Rashford has played under 5 different managers now and all of them subordinated themselves for him whilst he was ignoring their instructions? This idea gets even less realistic when you remember ETH has benched Rashford himself for being a few minutes late to a team meeting.

It's also very often a tactical instruction for your best and furthest upward player to conserve energy and don't drop deep, as funny as you might find this. When you win the ball back and can launch a quick transition or counter attack, do you want Rashford to be next his fullback, helping him near his own box, or do you want him near the halfway line to receive a ball from Bruno?

And before you tell me Rashford isn't good enough to be a "luxury" player, as I've got that type of answer to this before: it's tied to tactics, not the player's level. Just because Rashford isn't Messi or even Mbappé, that doesn't mean he isn't allowed to do something the manager probably asks from him anyway. And he's still one of the best wingers in the Premier League purely because of his pace, power, ball-carrying and ball striking as well. What I just described can be applied to any level as well, from the Premier League all the way down to Sunday league football.
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There were stats from this season which showed that players who played similar to how Rashford plays in terms of the team tactics and they all had less workrate numbers than him and I doubt you'd see their fans calling them lazy.
Rashford's problem is for this season his output has trailed off. I don't care to do the research but I wouldn't be surprised if his trackable numbers regarding work rate are similar to last season when he scored all those goals.
 
Adisa said:
People really going with this conserving energy angle. Was Martial also conserving energy?
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No, Martial played a different role to him. I don't think I remember there being a work rate issue with him, just injuries.
 
roseguy64 said:
No, Martial played a different role to him. I don't think I remember there being a work rate issue with him, just injuries.
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What I am saying is I never used to hear conserving energy excuses when the issue of Martial's laziness came up.
 
My problem isn't his work rate, it's not great but not the worst. It's his commitment into a challenge. He almost always pulls out or shys away from any physical tussle. Optically it looks like hes not bothered which dosent look good for him. He must feel like he's made of paper or something?
 
Munkehboi said:
My problem isn't his work rate, it's not great but not the worst. It's his commitment into a challenge. He almost always pulls out or shys away from any physical tussle. Optically it looks like hes not bothered which dosent look good for him. He must feel like he's made of paper or something?
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Possibly there is a mental challenge for him.
 
I see no way Ineos sell Rashford right now. I totally agree he has been beyond frustrating but I doubt they would ever sell him 'low' and probably hope he can another face of the team again after some time off. He typifies our awful campaign.
 
The issue with selling him is this our front line:

Garnacho 19 Højlund 21 Rashford 26

Antony 24 Nobody Amad 21

It needs some PL or top flight experience.
 
Munkehboi said:
My problem isn't his work rate, it's not great but not the worst. It's his commitment into a challenge. He almost always pulls out or shys away from any physical tussle. Optically it looks like hes not bothered which dosent look good for him. He must feel like he's made of paper or something?
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This I agree with. He doesn't challenge often. He'll get himself in the correct positions enough of the time but he's just shielding, not tackling. So it looks off to people and like he's not actually working when he wouldn't be in the position otherwise.
 
roseguy64 said:
This I agree with. He doesn't challenge often. He'll get himself in the correct positions enough of the time but he's just shielding, not tackling. So it looks off to people and like he's not actually working when he wouldn't be in the position otherwise.
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Funnily enough, during Mourinho's times Martial had more tackles in our own half than Rashford and people thought that Martial was the lazy one that didn't track back.
 
roseguy64 said:
This I agree with. He doesn't challenge often. He'll get himself in the correct positions enough of the time but he's just shielding, not tackling. So it looks off to people and like he's not actually working when he wouldn't be in the position otherwise.
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I worry that it’s his back issues and that he’ll never be able to compete properly like this.
 
Hammondo said:
So hes going to ruin whats left of his career, in case he ruins his career. I realize hes basically not much without pace, but that is crazy.
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He's hardly ruined his career by choosing to no longer press off the ball. Ask Arsenal fans whether they'd take him right now and the majority would say yes.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
He's hardly ruined his career by choosing to no longer press off the ball. Ask Arsenal fans whether they'd take him right now and the majority would say yes.
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I don't have the power to ask Arsenal fans, but basically Rashford has 1 more chance to prove himself or he's going to drop very quickly.
 
Rojofiam said:
That one's fine up until the 8 second mark where he admittedly could've done a bit more. Still, it's getting blown out of proportion.



What is there to explain? Yeah, there are some clips in there where he should've done more, but like I said, it's 99% likely that he's being told to conserve energy. And some of these clips are incredibly stupid anyways, especially the ones where he's left 1v1 against a Newcastle player on the wing and if he gets beaten after putting his leg in for a tackle, we get opened up. "Not defending close enough" :lol: The person who put that video together has 0 clue about maintaining shape and what Rashford was supposed to do in most of those situations. Basically from 0:42 until like 1:15 it's complete bullshit and Rashford doesn't do anything wrong in those 30 seconds.
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So you cant explain that this is tactics (which was expected).
 
Rojofiam said:
You choose to ignore several things.

No manager has ever called him out for laziness unless I forgot about something. No manager has benched him for similar reasons either. You really think Rashford has played under 5 different managers now and all of them subordinated themselves for him whilst he was ignoring their instructions? This idea gets even less realistic when you remember ETH has benched Rashford himself for being a few minutes late to a team meeting.

It's also very often a tactical instruction for your best and furthest upward player to conserve energy and don't drop deep, as funny as you might find this. When you win the ball back and can launch a quick transition or counter attack, do you want Rashford to be next his fullback, helping him near his own box, or do you want him near the halfway line to receive a ball from Bruno?
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you what, where were you when Rangnick dropped him for Elanga?
 
Hammondo said:
I don't have the power to ask Arsenal fans, but basically Rashford has 1 more chance to prove himself or he's going to drop very quickly.
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Wouldn't surprise me if he followed his latest pattern of having a good goalscoring season next season, followed by a poor season the year after that. That frustrating inconsistency will probably be enough to keep him around at a top club for another few years. I can't see a world where he ends up at an Everton in a couple of years.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Wouldn't surprise me if he followed his latest pattern of having a good goalscoring season next season, followed by a poor season the year after that. That frustrating inconsistency will probably be enough to keep him around at a top club for another few years. I can't see a world where he ends up at an Everton in a couple of years.
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I honestly think he could find himself at a team like Everton (also the team I had in mind when I was thinking about this).
 
Let’s say you sell him you then have no forward in our front line that has ever scored 20+ in all comps.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Amusing to see people defend his (complete lack of) workrate.
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Still wonder what happened to him. I know covid etc did s number on people's psyches and he was arguably never the hardest worker except for maybe one season - but just in general every time you see him play it just feels like there is no enjoyment there.
 
Redplane said:
Still wonder what happened to him. I know covid etc did s number on people's psyches and he was arguably never the hardest worker except for maybe one season - but just in general every time you see him play it just feels like there is no enjoyment there.
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He went from being the national sweetheart, the modern day Vera Lynn, lavished with praise, accolades and invites to wine and dine with societies elite - to having his commitment to his day job questioned. Never thought there was anything more to his demeanour change than being a bit precious and sulky about that.
 
I mean isn't it obvious to everyone? His head got too big. Tackling is something mere peasants do.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Let’s say you sell him you then have no forward in our front line that has ever scored 20+ in all comps.
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So?

It's no guarantee that he'll ever do it again is it?

Nor that anyone we have already (Hojlund particularly) or anyone we could buy might get 20+ in the coming seasons.
 
Redplane said:
Still wonder what happened to him. I know covid etc did s number on people's psyches and he was arguably never the hardest worker except for maybe one season - but just in general every time you see him play it just feels like there is no enjoyment there.
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Can't say about all the reasons but one of the biggest is ole stupidly overplaying him while carrying a back injury. That's when he really got into the habit of low workrate. It's been the same since.
 
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