Marcus Rashford (Out) | Ornstein: United want to keep, will only consider substantial bids

VP89 said:
True as this may be, I feel Sancho brings a lot on himself. How hard is it to turn up on time for training?
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Sancho is clearly at fault but, ultimately, a lot of blame has to also fall on the manager I’m afraid. A top manager nowadays has to have the skills to deal with spoilt youngsters, with more money in their early 20s than most of us could dream of having in a lifetime.

If it’s correct that ETH demanded an apology and refused to play Sancho without it, then that was clearly the wrong way to manage this situation. Even if he privately wanted to sell Sancho in the summer, the way he dealt with it now means that we are currently paying for Sancho to be a key factor in Dortmund potentially reaching the CL final whilst, at the same time, lacking cover in areas where Sancho could have been useful.
 
VP89 said:
True as this may be, I feel Sancho brings a lot on himself. How hard is it to turn up on time for training?
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That’s the thing though, apparently he was like that at Dortmund too but they glossed over and sent someone to wake him up etc.
That’s ok at a club like Dortmund, with less intensity and much less pressure, but it won’t work at a club like United or Madrid.

Some players just aren’t cut out for the dedication, sacrifice and pressure required. I imagine Matt Le Tiss was the same, and knew it too.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Watching Sancho last night should be a reminder for fans of how tough it is to play here. Not many players are cut out for it.
If we sell Rashford I’m pretty certain we’ll all be looking at him absolutely smash it at a club without the same pressure and with a functioning side.
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To me it really shows what a freak of nature Bruno is. In a good team he would be immense.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Watching Sancho last night should be a reminder for fans of how tough it is to play here. Not many players are cut out for it.
If we sell Rashford I’m pretty certain we’ll all be looking at him absolutely smash it at a club without the same pressure and with a functioning side.
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I need for a player to succeed with Manchester United he needs three things

A- He must be a high quality player ie one of the top 1-2% in the world
B- He must have the right attitude to succeed and work under pressure
C- He must be able to handle the physicality and pace of the EPL.

I believe that B and C had been the biggest issue with United in the past 10 years. Most of the players bought on silly money either lacked attitude or were too old (ex Sanchez), injury prone or slow for the EPL. Ironically we focused on the least of all three ie A. Time and time again we've had players like Park, Teddy and Gaz who succeeded despite not being world beaters mainly because of attitude and ability to handle the EPL.
 
devilish said:
I need for a player to succeed with Manchester United he needs three things

A- He must be a high quality player ie one of the top 1-2% in the world
B- He must have the right attitude to succeed and work under pressure
C- He must be able to handle the physicality and pace of the EPL.

I believe that B and C had been the biggest issue with United in the past 10 years. Most of the players bought on silly money either lacked attitude or were too old (ex Sanchez), injury prone or slow for the EPL. Ironically we focused on the least of all three ie A. Time and time again we've had players like Park, Teddy and Gaz who succeeded despite not being world beaters mainly because of attitude and ability to handle the EPL.
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Regarding A, FIFA has estimated there is about 123.675 professional footballers in the world. 1-2% mean you’d pick from the top 2.000 players, which for me is setting the bar too low.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Oh he’d be absolutely outrageous.
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Having just read the athletic It sounds to me like ETH is leaving the door open for Sancho. Sancho hasn’t said he won’t come back either. The thing is he’s a guaranteed starter and star player there and his stats are about the same there as they were for us. He’s a good player with mentality issues. He could still be a great player even in the PL. I know lots of fans thinks he’s lazy and just passes the ball backwards but if we are playing with a striker we actually need wingers who can play combinations and a final ball. Sancho at Dortmund 1.0 was rapid too. He can do both things when he’s confident. Obviously I think the manager was right to call him out if he’s being unprofessional behind the scenes. Maybe it’ll be the kick up the arse he needs? Either way him playing well is good for Utd
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
That’s the thing though, apparently he was like that at Dortmund too but they glossed over and sent someone to wake him up etc.
That’s ok at a club like Dortmund, with less intensity and much less pressure, but it won’t work at a club like United or Madrid.

Some players just aren’t cut out for the dedication, sacrifice and pressure required. I imagine Matt Le Tiss was the same, and knew it too.
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18 year old Ronaldo would have been run out of this team by the fans/media if he were to come here as an unproven teenager over the last few years - thank god Fergie knew what he was doing and was an excellent man manager
 
afrocentricity said:
18 year old Ronaldo would have been run out of this team by the fans/media if he were to come here as an unproven teenager over the last few years - thank god Fergie knew what he was doing and was an excellent man manager
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Would he? He was (by pretty much everyone's accounts) a dedicated professional from an extremely young age. He also got stick from the press for taking the piss with his tricks, diving and was also targeted by players trying to assault him. Maybe being part of the social media generation would have rotted his brain, but I think he would have made it anywhere he went.
 
Don't get your hopes up lads, he's not going anywhere. Marcus Rashford will retire at United. I just eagerly await the next year his contract is up for renewal because then we will get his maximum effort.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Don't get your hopes up lads, he's not going anywhere. Marcus Rashford will retire at United. I just eagerly await the next year his contract is up for renewal because then we will get his maximum effort.
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If we were smart we'd only give out three year deals.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Watching Sancho last night should be a reminder for fans of how tough it is to play here. Not many players are cut out for it.
If we sell Rashford I’m pretty certain we’ll all be looking at him absolutely smash it at a club without the same pressure and with a functioning side.
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I get the feeling he'd do very well elsewhere for a time, would have fans on here moaning and crying about what we did to him (like Sancho and his one performance last night), but then a year or two later he'd probably struggle for form and there'd be people saying we were right to sell him.

One of the problems with Rashford and the way fans perceive his talent is that we want someone, for that wage and status, to be on the level of Henry or Salah in terms of consistency in goals and assists- like season in and season out 25-30 goals- and it's probably not going to happen at this stage.
 
ZainCRse7en said:
Seeing what Arteta has done to Havertz, I would be reluctant to let Marcus go to Arsenal. Got a strange feeling he will flourish and suddenly turn into a world beater there. We should ship him abroad. Are PSG still interested?
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No worry. Arsenal can't afford his salary and everyone can see Rashford excel in counter attacking system/fast transition football, just like the current tactics employed by Real Madrid, which works well against possession football.
 



Just last season, but he looks so much leaner and quicker. And more passionate.

If you could guarantee this Rashford next season I'd keep him. But this highlights how far he's fallen off
 
Doracle said:
Sancho is clearly at fault but, ultimately, a lot of blame has to also fall on the manager I’m afraid. A top manager nowadays has to have the skills to deal with spoilt youngsters, with more money in their early 20s than most of us could dream of having in a lifetime.

If it’s correct that ETH demanded an apology and refused to play Sancho without it, then that was clearly the wrong way to manage this situation. Even if he privately wanted to sell Sancho in the summer, the way he dealt with it now means that we are currently paying for Sancho to be a key factor in Dortmund potentially reaching the CL final whilst, at the same time, lacking cover in areas where Sancho could have been useful.
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What is the right way? Because if he asked and then played him after he didn't apologise, he might as well have resigned because none of the squad would have had any respect at all, so I am wondering what he should have done in your opinion
 
Desert Eagle said:
Don't get your hopes up lads, he's not going anywhere. Marcus Rashford will retire at United. I just eagerly await the next year his contract is up for renewal because then we will get his maximum effort.
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Yeah he's only ever performed when it's contract renewal time. No other time.
 
LawCharltonBest said:



Just last season, but he looks so much leaner and quicker. And more passionate.

If you could guarantee this Rashford next season I'd keep him. But this highlights how far he's fallen off
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That's his joint best season in the PL with 17 goals.

With 4 games left of this season, Salah's on 17 in a season where he's been criticized. Cole Palmer's already on 20 in his first full season

We've got rid of far better players than Rashford, and the sky didn't fall in.
 
(Wil)cox in again lads. Satan is trolling us now

Responding to the rumours, Ten Hag said: "It's a joke! As long as I worked here, every summer, 200 players are getting an interest from Manchester United, which is untrue. We did some research.

"Every summer, we sell every player in our squad. Which is untrue. Be calm and take responsibility when you take such a headline. It is totally c**p."
Asked about what needs to be done this summer, the Dutchman responded: "Always a lot of work. It's normal that when you go into a transfer window. Those injuries [United have had this season] had a big impact.

"We are still below the levels from the expectations that Manchester United has. So we have to catch up.”


https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-most-of-his-squad-are-up-for-sale-in-summer
 
golden_blunder said:
(Wil)cox in again lads. Satan is trolling us now

Responding to the rumours, Ten Hag said: "It's a joke! As long as I worked here, every summer, 200 players are getting an interest from Manchester United, which is untrue. We did some research.

"Every summer, we sell every player in our squad. Which is untrue. Be calm and take responsibility when you take such a headline. It is totally c**p."
Asked about what needs to be done this summer, the Dutchman responded: "Always a lot of work. It's normal that when you go into a transfer window. Those injuries [United have had this season] had a big impact.

"We are still below the levels from the expectations that Manchester United has. So we have to catch up.”


https://www.skysports.com/football/...s-most-of-his-squad-are-up-for-sale-in-summer
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Whichever report said he's talking himself out of a job could be right.

The press leak about how the whole squad is available apart from three has obviously not come from ten Hag, so it's come from above him. Seems like we have some internal politics with ten Hag posturing to keep certain players, won't end well for him.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
If we were smart we'd only give out three year deals.
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Disagree. If we did shorter contracts we’d have to renew them more frequently and often if the player is performing well he has a stronger hand in the negotiation. If we were Madrid and Barca where every player wants to stay for their whole careers then I agree, but you tie down your best players to longer contracts to secure them as an asset.

What we should do instead is make our contracts more weighted to performances (something I believe had been reported Jim is looking to do). This then gives the player more incentive to perform obviously, but if they are not performing or playing then they should be easier to shift due to lower wages.
 
daba said:
Disagree. If we did shorter contracts we’d have to renew them more frequently and often if the player is performing well he has a stronger hand in the negotiation. If we were Madrid and Barca where every player wants to stay for their whole careers then I agree, but you tie down your best players to longer contracts to secure them as an asset.

What we should do instead is make our contracts more weighted to performances (something I believe had been reported Jim is looking to do). This then gives the player more incentive to perform obviously, but if they are not performing or playing then they should be easier to shift due to lower wages.
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You sound like you know what you're doing. Should get in touch with the club :drool:
 
daba said:
Disagree. If we did shorter contracts we’d have to renew them more frequently and often if the player is performing well he has a stronger hand in the negotiation. If we were Madrid and Barca where every player wants to stay for their whole careers then I agree, but you tie down your best players to longer contracts to secure them as an asset.

What we should do instead is make our contracts more weighted to performances (something I believe had been reported Jim is looking to do). This then gives the player more incentive to perform obviously, but if they are not performing or playing then they should be easier to shift due to lower wages.
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Yes, Woodward's asset value protection game got us real far and tied down some amazing players to five year deals.
 
daba said:
Disagree. If we did shorter contracts we’d have to renew them more frequently and often if the player is performing well he has a stronger hand in the negotiation. If we were Madrid and Barca where every player wants to stay for their whole careers then I agree, but you tie down your best players to longer contracts to secure them as an asset.

What we should do instead is make our contracts more weighted to performances (something I believe had been reported Jim is looking to do). This then gives the player more incentive to perform obviously, but if they are not performing or playing then they should be easier to shift due to lower wages.
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Performance incentives are pretty much in all contracts. The wages that get reported usually have the incentives included already.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Yes, Woodward's asset value protection game got us real far and tied down some amazing players to five year deals.
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Knew some smart arse would try and argue that. There is a difference between giving a performing player an extension so that another team can’t nab him for free than giving an injury prone squad player an unwarranted 4 year extension.
 
roseguy64 said:
Performance incentives are pretty much in all contracts. The wages that get reported usually have the incentives included already.
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Of course they are. But from the rumours of Jim wanting to make them ‘more performance related’ to that indicates that they probably aren’t enough, at least for certain players.
 
daba said:
Knew some smart arse would try and argue that. There is a difference between giving a performing player an extension so that another team can’t nab him for free than giving an injury prone squad player an unwarranted 4 year extension.
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Sure but I don't think Ed Woodward knew that. He was a balance sheet CEO. Like I said, served us well with Martial, Jones, Sancho, Rashford, Antony and a whole host of other players we can't shift due to their wages not matching their performance.

Also, if you lean too heavily toward incentives in a player contract they will just go to the club that offers them a better base salary.
 


Rashford isn't in the top 10

But I thought only prime Messi was allowed not to track back at all times?
 
Sunny Jim said:
or maybe he follows tactical instructions?
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Probably the case, but the same goes for most players, including Rashford.

However, if I remember correctly, Greenwood didn't really know what to do out of possession in regards to pressing the opponent when he was playing for us, and it caused problems.
 
Rojofiam said:
Probably the case, but the same goes for most players, including Rashford.

However, if I remember correctly, Greenwood didn't really know what to do out of possession in regards to pressing the opponent when he was playing for us, and it caused problems.
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Red Rash said:
Yea I think it's this. I always remember he would close down pretty well. I assume he's being instructed not to although I may be wrong.
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For what it’s worth I don’t recall him putting too much effort in during his last season with us. It got less the longer he was in the side
 
golden_blunder said:
For what it’s worth I don’t recall him putting too much effort in during his last season with us. It got less the longer he was in the side
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I don't think he was amazing at it but not the worst in the top five leagues. I think his tracking back was always average or fine. I may be misremembering of course.
 
golden_blunder said:
For what it’s worth I don’t recall him putting too much effort in during his last season with us. It got less the longer he was in the side
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Both his and Rashfords work rate dropped off after Ronaldo joined. Like they all wanted to out diva one another.
 
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