Take the money and run.
Marcus Rashford (Out) | Ornstein: United want to keep, will only consider substantial bids
- Thread starter Samid
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Scholes played in a completely different time. I don't think you can point to many other players of the calibre Rashford is supposedly at and say "yeah they do the same thing". Not Saka or Foden or Kulusevski or Son or Palmer etc etc.
I can grant Rashford as at least being aware to know he made mistakes and looking to fix them, which is why he doesnt get exiled on the squad, but I think there is enough evidence to suggest he lapses too often for a supposedly top player.
No, you can be forgiven to be unprofessional as long as you acknowledge that you did wrong, take your medicine and work to get back on the pitch again.
Terribly inconsistent as in being good for a bit then shite for a long time then being good again.
Last season first 2/3rds of the season he was amazing, then in the final third of the season he was shit. The season before he was shit all season. This season he's shit all season. 3 seasons ago he was good. If you struggle to grasp how Rashford is terribly inconsistent then just give up the debate now.
As I said he's a severely limited player such that if he's not scoring, hes not exactly contributing in general play.
No top player at 26 should be seen as indispensable when their last 3 seasons are 7 goals (and counting), 30 goals (Great) and then 3 goals the season prior whilst STILL being limited in general play.
Ten Hag has said he wanted more direct play and winning the ball higher up the pitch ,which isn't the same as just scoring by running in behind. Rashford is generally shite at pressing and tracking back, and he's erratic in decision making (sometimes good, often shite, as shown with his last 3 seasons). That doesn't suit a club like Manchester United.
Worth flagging he said he's applying this approach because he didnt have the players for a more possession orientated approach. Who knows how that changes in the next window, who knows if the board even trust ten hag to adopt that.
In general play both those players are far better than Rashford. They have better first touches, work tight angles better on a consistent basis, have better decision making and work far harder. This is all a comfortable no brainer when comparing those players to Rashford, who is far more erratic in his dribbling, almost always runs into traffic, doesn't work near hard enough and has inconsistency on his own decision making.
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I’ve said this before in this thread but it’s a fairly simple decision for me, he can’t be trusted. There’s guys in our squad with half his talent but still, you know they’ll go out and give it as much effort as they can. With Rashford, I think you can confidently say that there’s been numerous instances where he’s just not even bothered to try. I don’t see how any manager or teammate can trust him knowing he’s capable of downing tools and not fighting.
If we’re planning on buying a prospect of a CB for £70mil then the figure for PSG best be 9 digits.
Diaz and Martinelli aren’t even close to having better first touches than Rashford. I’m going to say that you simply don’t watch either of those players much as, other than the fact I agree that they work far harder, the rest is hopelessly off point. I’d add that they also have nowhere near the passing range of Rashford, aren’t as good at finishing or shooting from distance and are more injury prone. They are both probably at least one tier below him.
Oh, and it can’t be underestimated that they also play for much better coached teams. It’s amazing the difference it can make if players are clear on their roles and know what their teammates are going to do. Sadly, this season, any form of structure or coaching seems to have gone entirely out the window at United.
Even if you don’t want to put the full blame on Ten Hag for that failing, you can’t seriously be excusing all his faults because of injuries but then turning a blind eye to that when you want to say Rashford has been poor. When your entire spiel for why Ten Hag is failing is that it’s impossible to do well with most of a team injured that then also has to apply to the players who carry on playing when all around them has fallen. Surely you’d have to wait and see how Rashford does when ETH is able to coach the team properly when all the injuries have recovered before selling him? This is a guy who had 40GA only last season when things were working better.
I don’t fully agree with this post but I’m behind the sentiment. If I were Rashford & read some of the shite fans throw at me on forums/social media all whilst making excuses for players whose faces fit you wouldn’t just have to drive me to Paris, I’d already have a renovation going on there.
We’ve an £80mil Brazilian example of what happens when you go out & buy a ‘ready made’ winger sat on the bench. We’ve another example currently on loan back in Germany. We’ve another example of a £40mil prospect who can’t get off the
Can you improve on Rashford long term? Yes hopefully but selling Rashford for the reported fee then using that fee to buy a centre back from a team that is battling for relegation doesn’t quite add up to me. Unless PSG break the bank they can feck off.
So by that logic, Rashford is such an incredible enigma that when he plays well, our entire team looks miles better, but when he plays poorly our entire team looks like shite that can barely string two passes together?
We finished on 74 points in second in 2021, then on 75 points & third last season. Rashford was incredible in both and apparently the sole reason for us being great then and absolutely fecking terrible the following seasons. Because Rashford good = United good, Rashford shit = United shit.
I think it's the other way good united = good rashford
You have players that can pull a team bad team forward and you have players that need the team to get the best out of them. Rashford falls into the latter category
That’s my point exactly. Bang on the money.
His 3 best seasons we finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd and in between those we’ve had a couple of horror seasons (Ole/Ragnick) and this season.
When we’re shit, he’s shit and when we’re good, he’s good. I personally think we should concentrate more on making United good consistently and spend less time wanting to flog every player who is shit when we’re shit, cause after Ole/Ragnick and this season, we’d be selling 15 players.
Concentrate instead on getting rid of the players who are average to meh even when we’re good, and we have lots of those.
Case in point are Antony and Mudryk. Rashford is far superior than either, despite his flaws.
We won't be consistently good while we have players like Rashford who pick and choose when they show up. It's his job to put in the effort and be at his best regardless of how good or bad the rest of the team are
I don’t disagree with this and I certainly feel Rashford could portray better body language and be more of a leader.
However, I’m unconvinced that there are too many wingers (outside Messi) who would look good in our current team. Can you imagine Mbappe in this mess? He’d have downed tools in August when he saw Wolves jogging through our midfield with ease. Son was extremely poor last season at Spurs in similar circumstances. Salah might be an exception but he’s never quite had that situation at Liverpool.
What we want is to improve our team so that we are providing the platform for the stars to perform. If we get to a position where the rest of our team is performing at the level of Liverpool or even Spurs this season, I’ve no doubt that Rashford will return to his best form.
Your point on Martial (or Jose's point on Martial, if you will) doesn't take into account that it was injuries that destroyed him in 20/21. Obviously the torn knee ligaments in the latter part of the season, but we also know that he spent months playing through an injury that stopped him from running properly before that (and the question will always be there whether it was him playing with that injury for so long which ultimately led to what happened after). We'll never know what he could have achieved if it weren't for the injuries, but the fact that he was our best player the only season he had in between Jose leaving and the injuries starting doesn't really give credence to Mourinho's claims.
Even that's very debatable. He got quite a good amount of goals and assists that season, but his general play was poor. Kind of a 'Lukaku' season if you will, where he got the individual numbers but really didn't help the team as a whole. It was nothing like the previous season (19/20) where he was truly very good while also getting goals and assists.
He was good up until Jan/Feb and then poor at the end of the season. He was clearly struggling with injury though.
Where he does deserve criticism (together with whoever from the club oked it) is in then going to play for England and delaying his operation. I just don’t think that would have happened if he was a City or Liverpool player. Had he had that operation at the end of the 20/21 season, so he was ready at the start of 21/22, a lot of the problems that season might have been avoided.
Maybe like you said, i think it boils down to how many of us been looking to him becoming the player that can carry us on his own but keep getting dissapointed. Hes like you said might be able to replicate his form last season with a more functioning and not so injured team we have this year. Its been a mad year because we keep having our 4-6 players of our 11 injured and cant field our best 11 in most matches.
But like i said, if we decide to part ways with each other then it has to be around 100mil when we have every other players quote 100mil and just been playing 1 pro season.
I don’t think he picks and chooses though, I think history tells us he plays well, not when he chooses, but when the side are functioning.
When we look an absolute clusterfeck, with gigantic gaps between attack, midfield and defence and can’t string two passes together as a team, he looks shite.
He’s never gonna be the player who drags everyone else’s performances up like a Robson, Cantona or a Keane, or even a Rooney. He’s the type of player that thrives in a side that’s playing well.
Call that a luxury player if you like, but looking at the difference between our players and last season, and Liverpool players compared to last, I’d say it’s much more common than we think that even very good players can look shite if their team is a clusterfeck.
Ironically if you have watched the pair of them this season and looked at Rashford, I Can only assume you've watched no football all year.
Right so Rashford's inconsistency in general play comes from bad coaching. Aweosme. Even though we've tried different manner of coaches with their own nuances and approaches, it must all be collectively be on them.
Has it occurred to you that Rashford just isn't that technical in tight spaces or in dribbling decision making? He's supremely talented but he chronically over dribbles or fails to show composure. Last season he was gold, but his head space was free. Now he's down and he cant get his confidence back, sure that impacts his touch and his belief but the question in that case is why is he so mentally fragile.
Why would not Rashford necessarily beTen Hag failing? He had his best ever season under this same coach a year ago, and even this season isn't necessarily his worst (that was 2 seasons ago). I think the difference now is we are familiar with this trend, he did it with Jose and Ole.
Despite my constant criticism of Rashford, I maintain a fan of the man and genuinely want him to succeed. My problem is he's used up all goodwill for patience at 26 and can't get away with being so hot and cold both on and off the ball. Recently he's trying harder on the ball, but thats becase he knows he has eyes on him. We've seen him slip into drift mode for elongated patches way too much.
The reason I'd be fine for him to go is because I think he's either at peak or letting his peak drift by - and that peak is a good season, a bad season, a good season etc. The profit we make on him is clean since he's home grown and that can fund a lot. Just as an exercise, it can fund say, Fringpong, Todibo and probably a left back. It's a lot of money for a 26 year old who is quite inconsistent.
There are players who need a good side to do well and are unable to drag their squad to success. That's fair enough because very few players are game changers. However those who are not of that level aren't usually paid 300k+ a week either. That's for a good reason ie if a player is doing better then the 300k a week player then that player will be asking for that salary as well.
Also when Rashford is shit there's also the tendency that his attitude tend to follow the trend. As said not everyone is a Ronaldo, a Messi, a Maradona, a Baggio or even an Ibra. But that doesn't give the player the allowance to skip training to stay out drinking or to jog on the pitch for most of the time.
Our dressing room is so toxic that its a shambles. I think we need an example out of someone. Whose better then selling someone everyone in that dressing room thinks he's untouchable? Rashford could easily become INEOS version of McGrath. Quite frankly if I was SJR he'll be the first player I would want out hand in hand with his matey Sancho
Also when Rashford is shit there's also the tendency that his attitude tend to follow the trend. As said not everyone is a Ronaldo, a Messi, a Maradona, a Baggio or even an Ibra. But that doesn't give the player the allowance to skip training to stay out drinking or to jog on the pitch for most of the time.
Our dressing room is so toxic that its a shambles. I think we need an example out of someone. Whose better then selling someone everyone in that dressing room thinks he's untouchable? Rashford could easily become INEOS version of McGrath. Quite frankly if I was SJR he'll be the first player I would want out hand in hand with his matey Sancho
Very good post. INEOS need to stamp their authority on this new chapter and the first decisions they make in this upcoming transfer window with both incomings and outgoings will give us an idea of the direction that they're going to go.
Rashford is one of few players in our squad I think we could get a very good fee for and we wouldn't actually miss him terribly in the team considering he's detrimental to our team play. Like you say, the wage that he's on would suggest he's a world class player and a player that performs consistently at that level, but he's not.
As well as this, it would be a massive boost to our wage budget and we could start afresh with a new wage structure altogether.
Rashford is not the worst players we've got (he's actually one of the better ones) and his goals matter especially since we lack goals. However one needs to value what he brings to the table and what he takes out of it. Rashford brings goals but nothing else. He's a senior player whose homegrown (thus ample influence there) whose lazy on the pitch and he tends to switch on and switch off according to the dressing room's mood. Its very possible that he is dictating it as well. You simply can't have a senior player on 300k a week who jogs on the pitch especially in the modern game and with so many young talented players around. What sort of influence is Rashy giving them by doing that? It might be possible if the guy happens to be a Ronaldo were his crystalline talent and ability to win you games on his own was enough to justify his laziness and his prima donna antics. Rashford is no Ronaldo.
Close the thread, he’s not going anywhere!! El se queda! 
When you say "one of the better ones", what do you mean exactly?
I don't understand people who'd be sad when he is sold. Especially for a solid price.
People are acting as he is irreplaceable, an amazing special player and so on. People are focusing too much on him being a United academy product and makes them biased, but in a wrong way.
Sell him when he still has value. And that goes with all of our players whom have given doubts in their performing and motivation.
People are acting as he is irreplaceable, an amazing special player and so on. People are focusing too much on him being a United academy product and makes them biased, but in a wrong way.
Sell him when he still has value. And that goes with all of our players whom have given doubts in their performing and motivation.
Talent wise he's among the best players we've got.
What does that mean though? Top 10? top 5? It a bit of a nothing statement.
His value is more due to this club's inability to replace talent than due to his own ability and contribution to this team.
These are the 'wingers' the club has signed over the last decade for over 550m in transfer fees alone:
Antony
Sancho
Diallo
Pellistri
Dan James
Sanchez
Mkhitaryan
Martial
Depay
Di Maria
Mata
How many of them scored 10 goals for two seasons in a row? Or came even close to Rashford's numbers? Our next best prospects were academy products in Greenwood, and now Garnacho.
Are there no wingers in the world who could score 10 goals for two seasons in a row? Of course not. We just can't sign them, and when we do - they get ruined here. United is to wingers as Chelsea is to strikers.
It's time to be sold. I hope the club is smart and brave enough to do it. Make an example of him and start a new era showing that no one is invincible.
I don't think anybody is going to argue that our transfer dealings over the last decade haven't been mostly shit (for all positions, not just wingers). That's because we've had clowns running the show.
Now we're getting new people in place, there's a clean slate and we need to back them to do better. You can't just say we've made shit signings therefore we'll always make shit signings when completely different people are coming in to make those decisions going forward.
His attitude is so bad, he needs to go and I wish him well, but it's time for the club and him to cut ties.
Talent wise we'll need a lot better if we're to compete with the big boys again. So that statement isn't particularly relevant. There's absolutely no one in our team who is too good to sell
Exactly. Whats stopping him from atleast putting in a shift when the team isnt playing well? He just decides to stroll around. Thats indefensible but people will defend anything these days.
Not going to happen. Financially it would be beyond stupid trying to sell him at his lowest form.
Disappointing comments by EtH, but there is nothing else he can do, even if he had a secret desire to move Rashford on.
We deserve to remain in the football abyss for as long as we accommodate and reward such poor professionals.
At the very least he should be a permanent fixture on the bench and made to earn his place and our respect again.
We deserve to remain in the football abyss for as long as we accommodate and reward such poor professionals.
At the very least he should be a permanent fixture on the bench and made to earn his place and our respect again.
It’s not about him being irreplaceable, it’s about him being one of our own, specifically one of the very best players we’ve produced in recent times.
Right or wrong people get sentimentally attached to local lads done good.
Harsh on Juan. He was never a winger. Was always better in 10 position but was a top pro who was happy to do his best for the team.
Also, if he continues the trend, he should have a good season after this one. If we really are looking to sell then next summer would be the wisest.
Sorry for the delay in response.
I don’t disagree with you in particular the bolded part. Where my issue comes from are ‘take the money & run’ crowd. Thank feck they aren’t in charge of negotiating anything other than their Sky subscription. Per Gandalf Greyhame there’s absolutely no guarantee that the club will replace him effectively.
As my post says, I think eventually we will need to replace him but the utter contempt with which people speak of the guy goes too far for me. Personally I think players like McTominay who make it look like they’re giving effort but hide behind opposition players countless times a match offend me just as much as Rashford’s perceived lack of effort.
If his sale led to the purchases you list then I can see method in the madness but if we sold Rashford for the same or less than people are touting a CB who has potential at best I think that would be bad business.
Profit is all well & good till you come to spend it then find yourself lumbered with Antony.
What did he say? & what are his secret desires?
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