Marcus Rashford (Out) | Ornstein: United want to keep, will only consider substantial bids

For me, our best periods post-SAF have been when Marcus had been on form.
Attackers are generally on form when we have our best periods. That's not Rashford specific.

I also think our best period was Jose season 2, I think it might have been Lukaku or Zlatan smashing it that season. 80 something points and pretty ruthless.
 
Attackers are generally on form when we have our best periods. That's not Rashford specific.

I also think our best period was Jose season 2, I think it might have been Lukaku or Zlatan smashing it that season. 80 something points and pretty ruthless.
Yeah I did have Bruno in mind too when I posted that, but obviously this is a thread about Marcus.
Must have been Zlatan. The only thing Lukaku was smashing was the poor guys sat in row Z :wenger::lol:
 
Yeah I did have Bruno in mind too when I posted that, but obviously this is a thread about Marcus.
Must have been Zlatan. The only thing Lukaku was smashing was the poor guys sat in row Z :wenger::lol:
It was Lukaku. Zlatan did his ACL in Jose’s season 1 and spent most of the next season recuperating before moving on.
 
Yeah I did have Bruno in mind too when I posted that, but obviously this is a thread about Marcus.
Must have been Zlatan. The only thing Lukaku was smashing was the poor guys sat in row Z :wenger::lol:
Lukaku hit pretty much the same goal tally as Zlatan in season 1. He was a machine.
 
It was Lukaku. Zlatan did his ACL in Jose’s season 1 and spent most of the next season recuperating before moving on.
Lukaku hit pretty much the same goal tally as Zlatan in season 1. He was a machine.
There’s no mickey taking with you pedants around is there?!! ;):lol:
 
I can point to loads of absolute crap that went for 50m but I can't be arsed. 50m for Rashford would be daylight robbery by PSG, come on!
Yes the point is that 50m can get you a really good starting 11 footballer (which Rashford isn’t himself). If we have any intention of becoming a great side again then we have to aim to get bang for our buck rather than “absolute crap”.

Anyhoo if people think we should get more for him than great but I personally would not mind him going for 50m as I don’t rate him highly.
 
Rashford has chronic issues in:
- professionalism (two occasions here in the last year)
Because he slept in once, and because of the Belfast/illness thing? That really strikes you as ‘chronic’?!
Id doubt there is a poster on this forum who hasn’t at some point been late to work after an alarm didn’t go off etc or thrown a sicky - especially an alcohol related one.
Both times he’s accepted he did wrong, took his punishment and came back to score when he was included in the team again.
 
I doubt they have the balls to sell a youth player and a poster boy. Fergie kicked out Becks, Keane, etc., and that is how you progress and keep a certain standard up (and create a specific performance culture). I would try to sell him but the club will be hesitant imo
 
The day Manchester United is free from Rashford is my favourite footballing day since winning the league in 2013.
 
In the last year publically we know he has been dropped in a match for poor punctuality, and fined two weeks wages for being on a bender in Belfast the night before training. The Athletic said there are other issues not made public.
So yes, I think he does have commitment and professionalism issues.

Players, like other humans, can have lapses of judgement and are prone to stupid things. That doesn't mean that a player has "Chronic professionalism issues". Even Scholes had an incident or two with Sir Alex where he acted like a dick, but no one claims that Scholes was not a professional. I remember one season when Rooney was dropped in a crucial holiday fixture when he went out partying or something. But that one incident didn't define Rooney's professional career.

Because sancho spoke out publically and undermined the manager. It's worth noting Ten Hag did drop Rashford for some games this season because he was poor. He's getting better of late but therein lies the problem - he is terribly inconsistent.

So, you can be unprofessional as long as you don't speak out publicly. New information but point taken.

Terribly inconsistent as in? He has been dropped prior to this season because of similar issues. Again, new information.

Again false. There were many mentions of his lack of work rate but it was more than accepted as he could score. As long as he scores goals the limitations are palatable. If he's not scoring though, he's also not working and it's obvious. This is the 2ns season in the last 3 he's having a poor time.
No chance that's remotely standards of a United attacker at 26 year old.

Again, like I mentioned, both the down seasons have come after he was overworked in the previous seasons. Imo, that definitely has played a part. He also has had three 20+ goals seasons in the last 5 (with this one still to end).

Ten Hag does not want to implement counter attack football long term. He doesn't even want that now but a lot of our attacks happen to be counters, which I accept. Worth noting Rashford is still broadly quite shite at them. There's also no chance our owners will accept sit back and counter football as a plan A for much longer, so irrespective of the manager Rashfords limitations will just be more exposed.

The players you named are far more polished, in first touch, press resistance, decision making and dribbling. Rashford actually lacks in these areas.

He doesn't want it now when he himself said he wants us to be the "best transition team in the world", which is just a fancy way of describing counter-attacking football. What is counter-attacking if not speedily transitioning from the defensive phase to the attacking phase? Counter-attacking doesn't mean just sitting back, absorbing pressure and then hoofing it to your front men.

Every team, either transition or possession based, need players who can run in behind and keep the defenses honest. And that is one of Rashford's featured attributes, and the reason why he would excel in any set-up. He has the speed and his dribbling to really hurt the opposition.

Diaz and Martinelli are far more polished players than Rashford? You sure about that because that is not remotely true. Rashford has a very good touch. He has quick feet and is a good dribbler. Also, saying that either of those players have better decision making is surely a joke.
 
But he has triple the assists. We'd be better off getting someone who provides and invest in another forward. Only Arsenal rely on their wide players for goals and we still say they need a striker to win the league.

I don't think we need to directly replace them, in the same way I said Spurs will be a better side when Kane left. We need to be a better team and Rashford is not a team player, so even if he scores a loads, his slack has to be picked up by the rest of the team and now he's not even scoring.
That’s just not true. Liverpool have four wide players over 10 goals for the season, City have Foden, Alverez and Bernardo who all play around Haaland and offer a lot more than three goals a season. Villa too. All of those teams have strikers scoring a lot of goals. I’m not saying Williams can’t offer more, but if he put up numbers like that in the Premier League, it won’t get us anywhere near where we need to be. They’re the kind of numbers you want from a midfielder.

The team tactics and structure is far more of an issue than any individual talent and until that’s addressed, I don’t really think it’s worth spending big money. I’m positive that’s how Ineos are thinking anyway. Midfield, left back, centre back and back up striker will all need heavy investment, I don’t see us going for a top left winger.
 
I heard with a certain interest what the Stretford Paddock guys said on the matter. Unsurprisingly they weren't exactly thrilled of Rashford going. Yet strangely enough the arguments they put forward kind of strengthens the idea that he should

a- we aren't able to replace him correctly. Well that's the reason why we're changing the whole staff isn't it? Haven't we learnt anything from keeping players way past their time?
b- Rashford would do well if he's surrounded by top players with the right attitude but he can't drag us to success on his own like a Salah would do. While its true that this is a team game its also true that he is a senior player with 300k a week. If he can't keep himself motivated with that and he can't do well even in a struggling side then he's outpriced himself out of United.
 
I heard with a certain interest what the Stretford Paddock guys said on the matter. Unsurprisingly they weren't exactly thrilled of Rashford going. Yet strangely enough the arguments they put forward kind of strengthens the idea that he should

a- we aren't able to replace him correctly. Well that's the reason why we're changing the whole staff isn't it? Haven't we learnt anything from keeping players way past their time?
b- Rashford would do well if he's surrounded by top players with the right attitude but he can't drag us to success on his own like a Salah would do. While its true that this is a team game its also true that he is a senior player with 300k a week. If he can't keep himself motivated with that and he can't do well even in a struggling side then he's outpriced himself out of United.

So if you have a player who can produce 30-40GA if surrounded by good players, your solution is to sell that player, rather than buy the good players who will help make us a better team?
 

Whether you think he’s worth that or not it’s about time we started commanding top money for our players. Other clubs regularly ask for ridiculous fees for theirs and a lot of the time get their way, usually due to incompetent clubs like ours bowing to their demands. We’ve been mugged off in the market consistently for the last 10yrs, hopefully that ends now under the INEOS regime.
 
There’s nothing I disagree with here, I just feel with the club ‘losing’ Martial, moving out Sancho and Greenwood, and open to offers for Antony I think Rashford on top would leave us too light in attack and with too much to do in the market, and to integrate on the pitch. He can wait until next summer,

I also think he is our poster boy and his commercial value in this sense outweighs any perceived benefit of selling him.

Yeah I agree and I think getting a decent fee for Greenwood (which is maybe what Murtough was working on in Spain recently) will forgo any transfer saga with Rashford.
 
Should have sold Pogba for £90m, in the end he went on a free.

It's time someone at the club started making grown up decisions.

Wouldn't be surprised if Rashford goes the Lingard route and sits out the contract until he's done at 30+, while putting in half arsed "performances".

To who? Did we reject a 90m bid for Pogba?
 
That’s just not true. Liverpool have four wide players over 10 goals for the season, City have Foden, Alverez and Bernardo who all play around Haaland and offer a lot more than three goals a season. Villa too. All of those teams have strikers scoring a lot of goals. I’m not saying Williams can’t offer more, but if he put up numbers like that in the Premier League, it won’t get us anywhere near where we need to be. They’re the kind of numbers you want from a midfielder.

The team tactics and structure is far more of an issue than any individual talent and until that’s addressed, I don’t really think it’s worth spending big money. I’m positive that’s how Ineos are thinking anyway. Midfield, left back, centre back and back up striker will all need heavy investment, I don’t see us going for a top left winger.
Hmm ok maybe with Jota and Salah, but I am classifying Nunez as a striker - Diaz isn't a 10+ goal a season wide player. Alvarez similar to Nunez and Bernardo is sitting on a whopping 6 goals and 4 assists and Foden has only just become that, no reason someone like Garnacho couldn't be. I would prefer we buy an Alvarez or a Jota + Williams, than keep Rashford.

That's what I'm saying though and the best chance of addressing that will be selling assets that seriously impact FFP. That has to be player like Rashford, Greenwood, Scott and fully amortized transfers.
 
Look, if PSG feel Rashford could be the man to replace Mbappe, then 100 million should be what it takes. If they rate him that high, they will pay that.
 
Should have sold Pogba for £90m, in the end he went on a free.

It's time someone at the club started making grown up decisions.

Wouldn't be surprised if Rashford goes the Lingard route and sits out the contract until he's done at 30+, while putting in half arsed "performances".
The Pogba mistake is a brilliant comparison. Before covid we could have got top dollar, but kept him for commercial reasons. And here we are again, with an inferior player
 
So if you have a player who can produce 30-40GA if surrounded by good players, your solution is to sell that player, rather than buy the good players who will help make us a better team?

When an individual player scores loads of goals I'd like to ask the following questions

a- Can he produce the goods without being the focal point of the team?
b-Can he do it season in season out? Cause if he needs to be the focal point of the team then you'll probably need to build a team around him. Therefore if he scores 5 goals in season 1, 30 in season 2, and 7 goals in season 3 then you're pretty screwed during the lean years
c- what you're gaining out of it and what you're losing out of it. RVN had more killer instinct in his right toe than Rashy had in his entire body yet his workrate was abysmal. Defensive wise it was like playing with 10 men. Now since Rashford is not RVN then he must bring way more to the table then RVN did. Is Rashford hardworking? Does he backtrack?
d-He's a 300k+ a week. Does he act like a 300k a week player? Cause I promise you the next time a winger comes in and do better then Rashy then he'll ask for his salary. No one likes to be paid less despite producing a better job
e- Rashford is a senior player. Does he act like one? Is he dedicated on and off the pitch?
 
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Yeah, I don’t think Milan have the financial firepower to fight off PSG if they come calling. I’d hope we still do. It’s going to be a bad look if, after not even being in the running for Kane and Bellingham last summer, we can’t even hold on to Rashford when one of the big clubs comes calling. Still, if we are forced to sell, I’d expect it to be upwards of £100m. £75m is laughable.
Huh? We only sell Rashford if we want to sell him and replace him with someone better or more suited to how we want to play, not because we're 'forced' to.

It's like saying we were forced to sell RVN or Beckham, or Real Madrid were forced to sell Robben or Di Maria.
 
It’ll probably be closer to what someone like Sterling went for given they had similar wages. Sterling never had seasons where he decided to not bother working either. Rashford at his best is better than Sterling. In an average game sterling was more useful though and City had absolutely no problem letting him or Sane go. We’d still be flogging David Silva and Aguero 100% if we had them. Recruitment, keeping the squad fresh and motivated is imperative to building any culture of success. Rashford being told he can leave if he doesn’t want to be here will send shockwaves through the playing staff (hopefully) We aren’t going to messing around anymore.
 
Wouldn't mind selling him if we can bring in a good replacement. Selling him would be a lower priority than selling Sancho and Antony though, so we might end up needing two or maybe even three new wingers/wide forwards.

Garnacho appears on track to establish himself as an important player and one who could become one of the best wide forwards in the league in time. But a good squad needs 3 or ideally 4 such players, plus one or two youngsters or versatile players in reserve. Hopefully Diallo gets some game time this season so he can make a case to be one of the 4.
 
Agreed, except:


Will he though? Rashford is inconsistent and high maintenance. A new manager who’s coming in with his eyes open might wonder whether he’s worth the effort. A DoF might well think the same, given the number of other things that need fixing.


Possibly. I’m not convinced Rashford is capable of any more great seasons; he just doesn’t seem capable of the required physical intensity.
Well, I suppose managers/DoFs can be like anyone else in thinking that problems were specific to previous bosses and that they can be the ones to 'fix' the issue. For example, Jose apparently said to the United board that they would never win titles with some of the players that are still here at the club even now and I suspect Martial was one of those players. Ole comes in after Jose is fired, makes Martial his star striker, he has a terrific first full season with Ole and then has an abysmal second season (from which his career has never recovered, four years on). I think Ralf also made comments about players that were, allegedly, dismissed by EtH according to reports.

I would be really shocked if Rashford leaves next season if a big offer came in. It would be a massive statement of intent that no one is safe from under-performing though.
 
Well, I suppose managers/DoFs can be like anyone else in thinking that problems were specific to previous bosses and that they can be the ones to 'fix' the issue. For example, Jose apparently said to the United board that they would never win titles with some of the players that are still here at the club even now and I suspect Martial was one of those players. Ole comes in after Jose is fired, makes Martial his star striker, he has a terrific first full season with Ole and then has an abysmal second season (from which his career has never recovered, four years on). I think Ralf also made comments about players that were, allegedly, dismissed by EtH according to reports.
Oh definitely! The thing is though that we’re supposed to be moving away from relying on individual egos, be they managerial or Ed Woodward, and working towards a more rational data-driven approach.

I would be really shocked if Rashford leaves next season if a big offer came in. It would be a massive statement of intent that no one is safe from under-performing though.
It certainly would.

I’m not sure how it would turn out for Rashford though. A massive fee is going to pile up the pressure on him to be the star player. I don’t think that will do him any good.
 
I for one hope he will not be sold. The day Marcus Rashford leaves ManUnited will be a sad day for me.
 
While thats obviously true, he’s never actually been the best player during those good spells. In lockdown Martial and Greenwood were better. For Ole, Martial and Pogba were better. For Mourinho Ibra and Pogba were also better. Last season was the only time he’s been our “best” player but we didn’t play great stuff back then and even that aside I’d argue Bruno, Casa and Martinez were more influential to our good football spells.
That's not true - in the season where Bruno joined mid-season, Rashford was carrying that team from Aug to Dec. He was in fantastic form around then, and the only one who was performing.
 
He needs to be sold. I don't think there should be any discussion about that.

He has same mentality sulking issues under numerous managers, he will be 27 this year in Oct and not a child anymore.

He is a good player at best who relies on pace alone with not enough other attributes to deserve ~350K pounds a week. For that sort of money, we should get world class talent or 1 level below world class and he is no where near that bar 1 or 2 season out of 7/8 he has played. I am sorry but he just doesn't do enough.

On top, SJR will want to have a good summer window and selling him will take away a lot of FFP issues. I am sure we can get 90-100m for him if PSG is indeed interested.

We love to overhype our players, time for me to cash in while we still can.
 
Wouldn't mind selling him if we can bring in a good replacement. Selling him would be a lower priority than selling Sancho and Antony though, so we might end up needing two or maybe even three new wingers/wide forwards.
Given how FFP works, i think selling him becomes higher priority. It will allow balancing out the squad.
 
There is a player in there when hes performing. Im not sure what is the pronlem, is it because hes played too many games last season, and it caught up to him (like poters said)? The consistency? The injury (or unease feeling that he might get injured again thats why he dont perform or run 100% all the time?

For me if we decides on how to play and think that he wont be optimal to how we want to play then we should sell him regardless of his poster boy status but only its around 100mil. Hes worth that much with his status in the games as a whole package.
 
That's not true - in the season where Bruno joined mid-season, Rashford was carrying that team from Aug to Dec. He was in fantastic form around then, and the only one who was performing.
We were awful in that spell though.
 
There is a player in there when hes performing. Im not sure what is the pronlem, is it because hes played too many games last season, and it caught up to him (like poters said)? The consistency? The injury (or unease feeling that he might get injured again thats why he dont perform or run 100% all the time?

It’s because we’re shite as a team clearly, and Rashford isn’t good enough to rise above everything when all around him is so shit. It’s quite common just look at Liverpool last year and the difference in some of their players when the rest of the team is purring like this season.

Rashford’s incredible record in the big games hints to me that he will be a massive success at PSG if he goes.
 
It’s because we’re shite as a team clearly, and Rashford isn’t good enough to rise above everything when all around him is so shit. It’s quite common just look at Liverpool last year and the difference in some of their players when the rest of the team is purring like this season.

Rashford’s incredible record in the big games hints to me that he will be a massive success at PSG if he goes.

Not sure how good he'll be considering how he thrives on counter attacking football but they surely get a lot of teams parking the bus against them in the league. His lack of tracking back would certainly be indulged though as he would be replacing a player with the same trait.
 
Not sure how good he'll be considering how he thrives on counter attacking football but they surely get a lot of teams parking the bus against them in the league. His lack of tracking back would certainly be indulged though as he would be replacing a player with the same trait.

I’ve seen him thrive even under Louis van Gaal as a young kid. If you look at all of his best seasons, he can thrive in many situations, but they just tend to be when his team functions much better as a unit. He’s not the cream that rises above the rest to the top, but he’s an excellent player when a team is playing well.

I’m certain that in a well functioning team, he’ll be excellent, as that’s always been the case with him, due to that I think we’d be best off looking at why we’re shite as a team, rather than looking at selling players we know can/do thrive when the team is playing well.
 
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I’ve seen him thrive even under Louis van Gaal as a young kid. If you look at all of his best seasons, he can thrive in many situations, but they just tend to be when his team functions much better as a unit. He’s not the cream that rises above the rest to the top, but he’s an excellent player when a team is playing well.

I’m certain that in a well functioning team, he’ll be excellent, as that’s always been the case with him, due to that I think we’d be best off looking at why we’re shite as a team, rather than looking at selling players we know can/do thrive when the team is playing well.

Personally I've really had enough of his lack of urgency off the ball and selfishness on the ball. Even when he was at his best last season he still messed up a lot of dangerous opportunities by running down blind alleys and losing the ball or shooting from range when the better option was to pass. But at the time it was overlooked as he was also creating things out of nothing and was undeniably great to watch, albeit still frustrating at times!

So I'm not sure I agree with the point that he is better if the team is functioning. I'm more of the opinion that he is a very individual player who's style disrupts the potential for a functioning team unless he is on top form, because he provides so little to the team when he is not.
 
Personally I've really had enough of his lack of urgency off the ball and selfishness on the ball. Even when he was at his best last season he still messed up a lot of dangerous opportunities by running down blind alleys and losing the ball or shooting from range when the better option was to pass. But at the time it was overlooked as he was also creating things out of nothing and was undeniably great to watch, albeit still frustrating at times!

So I'm not sure I agree with the point that he is better if the team is functioning. I'm more of the opinion that he is a very individual player who's style disrupts the potential for a functioning team unless he is on top form, because he provides so little to the team when he is not.
Yep nail on the head for me.