Marcus Rashford and his critics | Now includes fashion and hobby critics

[moses]

Have you ever made fun of, and understood the scrutiny of this?

or this?

Same concept. Big consequences if the results aren't there.

Two very odd examples. The white suits were objectively hilarious and had a very light hearted treatment and not at all personal, and the Pardew thing was him proactively taunting. Can you think of one provocative gesture by Marcus?

You didn't answer my question in why it doesn't matter to you but you can see why it bothers others.

 

[Florida Man]

I'd say the word 'Black' is an obvious omission here.

Once upon a time maybe, but it's full on American now.

 

[Fugeeface]

Quite the transformation from the humble kid helping others with their meals to acting like a rap star wearing a 40.000 € jacket. The glasses indoors are the icing on the cake. The grill is just bizarre.
For those in the know, is this new or is this regular for Rashford?

This isn't about being in the US or what he does in his free time. No one cares. It's not about fashion. It's about how you carry yourself in public. The optics are bad.

The few that tried to discredit criticism as racist: the reaction would have been the same if let's say Fernandes would show up moving around like that anywhere. Bad vibes, bad optics.

Ben Stiller was on that bench Rashford was sitting on. More money, bigger star, dressed casual. Or let's have a look at Casemiro, also at an NBA game. No issues there. A way more accomplished footballer than Rashford. Different class.

 

[Florida Man]

Two very odd examples. The white suits were objectively hilarious and had a very light hearted treatment and not at all personal, and the Pardew thing was him proactively taunting. Can you think of one provocative gesture by Marcus?

You didn't answer my question in why it doesn't matter to you but you can see why it bothers others.

Obviously it's not the exact 100% same thing but it's the same concept surrounding image and outcomes.

And yes I did. It's from my quoted post.

 

[moses]

Once upon a time maybe, but it's full on American now.

Not sure a white player would elicit the same language in this thread, the rapper comparisons are rarely compliments in these discussions and rarely used for white players dressed like idiots.

 

[moses]

Obviously it's not the exact 100% same thing but it's the same concept surrounding image and outcomes.

No, the Liverpool players were not personally attacked and it was by opposition fans, and Pardew was being antagonistic. They are quite relevant details to differentiate the situations.

 

[Florida Man]

Not sure a white player would elicit the same language in this thread, the rapper comparisons are rarely compliments in these discussions and rarely used for white players dressed like idiots.

It still comes from American culture.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'd say the word 'Black' is an obvious omission here.

Feck off with that. I actually had the Kardashians front of mind when I wrote that. Are you going to accuse me of being racist towards Armenians now?

 

[honirelandboy]

Maybe Amorim can get the best out of him and hopefully he does, if not probably time he moved on. He just needs to keep the head down and work hard which is the frustrating part. I think he will be our main striker under Amorim as Hojlund is no where near good enough yet but hopefully he will be. He wore a fancy coat big deal.

 

[Marwood]

This type of criticism. Criticising him for not tracking back or looking half-arsed in tackles is for me, part of the job. Getting slagged off for what he wears in any serious manner is bewildering and irrelevant to me.

You've missed the point and it always happens in this type of off field player discussion.

It's not specifically about the clothes. It's the whole apparent attitude of the player. Of which his presentation is a part.

The problem is no matter how many times that's explained it won't be accepted. The one's defending the player will still make out it's all about a coat. That's not what people are saying.

 

[moses]

Feck off with that. I actually had the Kardashians front of mind when I wrote that. Are you going to accuse me of being racist towards Armenians now?

Not at all! Sorry if you think that was aimed at you even slightly. That's not on my huge list of things to have a go at you about. As @Florida Man says it's a pan American thing now, but I still think that there are some negative tropes within that.

I just think the language used in some of the analysis and criticism of black players is different to white players. That's what i was saying earlier that optics may trigger a bias or unconscious information.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ls-racial-bias-in-english-football-commentary

 

[Florida Man]

No, the Liverpool players were not personally attacked and it was by opposition fans, and Pardew was being antagonistic. They are quite relevant details to differentiate the situations.

Splitting hairs. You're focusing on little details while I'm talking the similarities in concepts. You can refer to the rest of my quoted post from earlier if it's still bewildering to you.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not sure a white player would elicit the same language in this thread, the rapper comparisons are rarely compliments in these discussions and rarely used for white players dressed like idiots.

You’re old enough to remember Beckham getting shit over his celebrity trappings, or Steven Ireland and his ludicrous pink Rolls Royce. Footballers who indulge in vulgar displays of wealth have always and will always get shit from fans. Deservedly so, in my opinion. The same way non footballers who behave the same way should get shit. Like I said, it’s gross.

 

[moses]

You've missed the point and it always happens in this type of off field player discussion.

It's not specifically about the clothes. It's the whole apparent attitude of the player. Of which his presentation is a part.

The problem is no matter how many times that's explained it won't be accepted. The one's defending the player will still make out it's all about a coat. That's not what people are saying.

I think you've missed the point. I'm not defending the player, I'm defending the person.

 

[moses]

Splitting hairs. You're focusing on little details while I'm talking the similarities in concepts. You can refer to the rest of my quoted post from earlier if it's still bewildering to you.

Oh I'm not bewlidered at all.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not at all! Sorry if you think that was aimed at you even slightly. That's not on my huge list of things to have a go at you about. As @Florida Man says it's a pan American thing now, but I still think that there are some negative tropes within that.

I just think the language used in some of the analysis and criticism of black players is different to white players. That's what i was saying earlier that optics may trigger a bias or unconscious information.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ls-racial-bias-in-english-football-commentary

You’re right, of course. Raheem Sterling is the gold standard example. A witch hunt over buying his mum a house. I do think that sort of thing is different to what Rashford is up to here. Sterling didn’t seek out any of the attention he got. If you choose to court (no pun intended) publicity like this then prepare to have your life (and fashion) choices scrutinised. Even more so at the precise moment when he surely knows everything he does will be picked over by the fans and the press. He’s our best paid player who should be our best player yet his poor performances have contributed to yet another manager being sacked. Poor performances that have seen him dropped from his national team, who are playing matches this same weekend. And he thinks this is a good time to fly to NY, get front row seats at a basketball game, walk round with an entourage and promote diamond encrusted grills? There are other options he could have chosen.

 

[moses]

You’re old enough to remember Beckham getting shit over his celebrity trappings, or Steven Ireland and his ludicrous pink Rolls Royce. Footballers who indulge in vulgar displays of wealth have always and will always get shit from fans. Deservedly so, in my opinion. The same way non footballers who behave the same way should get shit. Like I said, it’s gross.

Totally gross. And only in the Stephen Ireland incident was a cultural slur used, he was compared to a pikey. Most white lads just get called idiots. We've been here before about young black players spending money on houses for family members being portrayed differently to young white players doing the same thing.

 

[Florida Man]

Not at all! Sorry if you think that was aimed at you even slightly. That's not on my huge list of things to have a go at you about. As @Florida Man says it's a pan American thing now, but I still think that there are some negative tropes within that.

I just think the language used in some of the analysis and criticism of black players is different to white players. That's what i was saying earlier that optics may trigger a bias or unconscious information.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ls-racial-bias-in-english-football-commentary

It's not that deep.

 

[moses]

You’re right, of course. Raheem Sterling is the gold standard example. A witch hunt over buying his mum a house. I do think that sort of thing is different to what Rashford is up to here. If you choose to court (no pun intended) publicity like this then prepare to have your life (and fashion) choices scrutinised. There are other paths he could have chosen.

100%

 

[moses]

It's not that deep.

That's not deep at all.

 

[Remember the geese]

If Rashford was consistently putting in World Class performances, him looking like an absolute wanker would still receive criticism. Why wouldn't it? It's hilarious and gross all in one package. However, it would be a lot more bearable for United fans. Almost like a "OK, you're a superstar on the field so it's kinda expected that you're going to act like a superstar (arse) off the field".

 

[moses]

If Rashford was consistently putting in World Class performances, him looking like an absolute wanker would still receive criticism. Why wouldn't it? It's hilarious and gross all in one package. However, it would be a lot more bearable for United fans. Almost like a "OK, you're a superstar on the field so it's kinda expected that you're going to act like a superstar (arse) off the field".

Yes, absloutely. It would be used as humour and be fleeting and not some character flaw or any indication as to why he was playing well.

 

[afrocentricity]

I mean, the jewellery is fine, the grill I don't get, but maybe he's just purchased it like a rolex, a store of value.... maybe that jeweller is famous? What the feck do I care, not that deep. I can see how some might think its flaunting wealth but that's not unique and doesn't explain his on pitch performance. I just wish people wouldn't go overboard, and then for some going overboard really shows what type of person they are.... moaning cnuts. Or it shows it as much as a US basketball trip show Rashford's anyway...

That's aside from the point that al this noise does nothing to help our players at a time when they could probably do with some (not so tough) love (as alluded to by Bruno/Garnacho) - or maybe just keep it all performance related and on the cafe eh? No need to be abusing players in their dm's an all that....

 

[Marwood]

I think you've missed the point. I'm not defending the player, I'm defending the person.

OK but you're countering posters on an argument they haven't made. Nobody is criticising him just for his clothes. Which isn't really on when you're also bring race into the counter argument.

 

[Malons]

The last thing he expected when he was sat in the front row of an NBA game dripping in jewellery, with diamond teeth in posing for the camera was for anyone to notice him or what he was wearing.

Lad can't catch a break

 

[Remember the geese]

Yes, absloutely. It would be used as humour and be fleeting and not some character flaw or any indication as to why he was playing well.

But obviously he isn't playing well. Therefore, any perceived overindulgence is going to rub people up the wrong way. The image he is presenting of himself is not a good one in the context of how badly he is performing on the pitch. He isn't helping himself.

 

[moses]

OK but you're countering posters on an argument they haven't made. Nobody is criticising him just for his clothes.

I'm saying the criticism of the clothes may not just be sartorial-based indignation. I am also saying that while he looks ridiculous in my opinion, I'm a 51 year old man who things most young people dressed up look a bit ridiculous to the point I don't even notice it until it's pointed out, because it's not relevant to anything other than taste in clothes. If this was just a let's all laugh at Marcus's clothes conversation I'd have no issue. But it's not. I think I've made myself clear in my other posts on the page.

 

[Chairman Steve]

I’d say if you’re using PR tactics and putting yourself out there then there’s obviously going to be some curious eyes looking your way. Nobody’s rooting through his rubbish and recycling bins or trying to hack into his phone to get that juicy gossip or something. He and his people are doing it themselves.

I commented on his latest New York attire in that badly dressed footballers thread in the Football Forum. You can’t portray yourself as ‘humble and introverted lad from Manchester’ in a puff piece for the Players Tribune (in response to Shearer calling him out for being lazy on a BBC broadcast) and then go out, dress so ostentatiously and have an entourage leaving Madison Square Garden, to the point it was like you wanted to be seen there.

It just makes him and his people look full of shit and I don’t see any problem with people raising that as a minor issue, especially combined with his escapades of indiscipline under ETH, his questionable performances and the fact he’s one of the highest paid footballers on the planet, let alone United.

Whoever the people who are advising him are, they’re torpedoing his football career. If you’re going to put words and excuses out there in response to people criticising you, then you better back it up or people will use it against you.

Or you could your talking on the pitch like many other footballers before him and it goes away.

 

[afrocentricity]

But obviously he isn't playing well. Therefore, any perceived overindulgence is going to rub people up the wrong way. The image he is presenting of himself is not a good one in the context of how badly he is performing on the pitch. He isn't helping himself.

I mean he's probably done more than you will for poor people, but lets kill him over this weeks overindulgence....

 

[moses]

But obviously he isn't playing well. Therefore, any perceived overindulgence is going to rub people up the wrong way. The image he is presenting of himself is not a good one in the context of how badly he is performing on the pitch. He isn't helping himself.

You lot sound like my mother when I was 15 and I got a piercing.

 

[ifightdragons]

The last thing he expected when he was sat in the front row of an NBA game dripping in jewellery, with diamond teeth in posing for the camera was for anyone to notice him or what he was wearing.

Lad can't catch a break

This is the perfect summary.

 

[Remember the geese]

I mean he's probably done more than you will for poor people, but lets kill him over this weeks overindulgence....

You praise the good and criticise the bad. That's standard procedure. Play well and he's mocked for his overindulgence. Play badly and his overindulgence is a source of much greater irritation.

 

[Remember the geese]

You lot sound like my mother when I was 15 and I got a piercing.

If you were performing well in your studies, then despite being angered, your mother would probably accept it a lot better than if you were flunking class, taking a day off to booze with mates etc.

 

[Malons]

I commented on his latest New York attire in that badly dressed footballers thread in the Football Forum.

We're pretending criticising footballers for their fashion choices is far-right and problematic. Pointing out there's a whole thread where people take the piss out of footballer's dress sense, isn't helping.

The racism directed at Paul Merson in that thread is a disgrace, by the way.

 

[moses]

If you were performing well in your studies, then despite being angered, your mother would probably accept it a lot better than if you were flunking class, taking a day off to booze with mates etc.

I was doing fine, she was just a complete idiot with her priorities way off reasonable. She's still a pain in the hole.

 

[moses]

We're pretending criticising footballers for their fashion choices is far-right and problematic. Pointing out there's a whole thread where people take the piss out of footballer's dress sense, isn't helping.

The racism directed at Paul Merson in that thread is a disgrace, by the way.

No we're not, and either engage like an adult or don't engage.

 

[alexthelion]

If Yamal drops off when he is 27 then people would feel sorry for how he has been overused.

Not for our English Rashy.

Ever since he has broken through, overrated or not he has been overused as a consistent starter ever since which has both led him to believe he is better than he really is & has taken a significant physical & technical aspect of his game off aswell.

He is both mentally & physically broken from being overused in what was one of our worst decades ever.

 

[jojojo]

I'm saying the criticism of the clothes may not just be sartorial-based indignation. I am also saying that while he looks ridiculous in my opinion, I'm a 51 year old man who things most young people dressed up look a bit ridiculous to the point I don't even notice it until it's pointed out, because it's not relevant to anything other than taste in clothes. If this was just a let's all laugh at Marcus's clothes conversation I'd have no issue. But it's not. I think I've made myself clear in my other posts on the page.

That's my problem with it as well. There's a whole battery of stuff that my younger family members wear that either makes me cringe or laugh (though I'm usually polite enough not to let on!). Not that my own generation is exempt of course, just that I tend to assume that it makes them happy, rather than they do it to fit a role.

What I hate is this idea that dressing up for a night out equates to some sort of moral or psychological failing on his part. I certainly don't connect it to under par performances on the pitch.

In fact, if it cheers him up and refreshes him up mentally - I'm all for it. Who knows it may be the recharge he needs to come back ready to do his job again.

 

[alexthelion]

My 2 cents..... nobody cares about the football criticisms as we are all on the same page (evidenced by the lack of pushback on that specifically) - he needs to fix up if he hopes to remain at United. But past that, when some are in these threads talking about lifestyle and culture... then imo people will start to wonder where you are going with it and where you are coming from. Some should reflect on that, maybe listen to the advice given to Rashford and read the room.... or their own posts at the least.

For you, don't come in and take the defensive angle I've seen this convo play out over and over again on here over the years....

Posters make assumptions about people, news at 10


Here we go....


Why does nobody get so pissed off when I defend Garnacho or Bruno? Rashford really is persona non grata on here atm.... god forbid anyone defends him or asks for balance

Do you not find it odd that certain posters' first reaction is to call something racist?

Was/is it racist of black posters to criticise Maguire/Shaw?

 

[moses]

Those who think Amad deserves to be ahead in the pecking order and have not voiced a word of criticism of Casemiro's attendance at a basketball game, gather round whilst insinuations are made about your character that suggest you're probably racist. Usually they say "agenda"

There are all sorts of agendas. And sorts of ways to flag them. You being the number one poster in a thread criticising one of our players might be seen as an agenda. A very quick search shows roughly 10% of your posts on the forum are about Marcus.