[statpadder]

People who have never played football at any level would think Rashford is a great player to have on your team. These posters don’t possess an ability to judge a players performance - they rely on selective numbers to prove their point.

Anyone who has played football knows what having a player like Rashford does to your team. Yes he’s a nightmare for the opposing defender but…

He is nightmare to play with as well. He doesn’t pass, doesn’t track back enough, backs out of 50/50s.

As a forward, when you don’t get the ball 9/10, you stop getting into good positions and you don’t anticipate the pass that one time as well.

Also, this attitude rubs off on everyone and you start being an individualistic player yourself.

At the moment, he is an incredibly selfish player who needs to work on his decision making and work his way in the team rather than being an automatic starter.

 

[zaafi]

Bruno and Rashford's outputs aren't inconsistent at all. Bruno every season he is here gets roughly 15+ goals and 15+ assist. Rashford 3 out of the last 4 seasons has had 20+ goals and 10 + assists. The best way to improve your team is not actually to get rid of players. It's actually to get players that are better than your current starters and have them replace your players. For example, Liverpool didn't sell Milner, they brought a better player (Wijnaldum) in and let them fight it out. That way, at the minimum you get Milner who was good enough to start for them and at best you get someone who was better for them. There are many examples of this.

For me right now. We just need more goals in the team. I would be doing everything possible to get Toney in January.

The bolded is complete nonsense not even going to bother.

Bruno scored 8 goals (2 penalties) and 8 assists in 37 league games last year. For comparison, De Bruyne scored 7 goals and had 16 assists. Ødegaard scored 15 goals and had 7 assists. Maddison scored 10 goals and had 9 assists in a relegated Leicester. Both Maddison and De Bruyne played much less minutes than Bruno.

As for Rashford, there are two seasons he has scored 17 league goals, one of which had 6 penalties out of those 17. The other seasons he has not scored more than 11 league goals. Compare this to the likes of Son, Salah and even Sterling for City. Add the fact that they work three times as hard as Rashford, and are more focused on winning the match rather than being the individual that scores the match winning goal. The difference is staggering.

The best way to improve the team is to get rid of players who aren't team players, which is exactly what Klopp and Pep did. That is the only way to progress, unless your talent is equal to Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappé etc. Even Vinicius Junior who is twice as talented as Rashford got stick for not being a team player, and once he got his shit together he became twice the player. Rashford is in his prime and should not be taught to be that kind of player, or it is already too late. The point is that both Rashford and Bruno needs replaced by other players next summer. They might be our "best" players in the sense that they're the ones that produce the most, but so what? They're both attacking oriented players. It shouldn't come as a surprise they produce most, unless you're the type of guy that gets surprised at a defender or defensive midfielder having most tackles. Look at our position on the table, and how many goals we've scored/conceded. Do you think we magically are going to create more and score more goals by upgrading on Antony or Højlund, or do you think there perhaps is something more here?

 

[saik]

Are we going to hark back to players we didn’t sign everything someone doesn’t play

Nope, only said that cause I like Martinelli. We have Garnacho though who can probably end up on the same level. Hopefully he gets to that level soon enough.

Rashford has the attitude of a star player without the performances to back it up. He should be benched until he can learn how to be more of a team player. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

 

[V.O.]

Needs to be brought out of the complacency of being the first name on the teamsheet in every game.

 

[3KDré]

Bruno scored 8 goals (2 penalties) and 8 assists in 37 league games last year. For comparison, De Bruyne scored 7 goals and had 16 assists. Ødegaard scored 15 goals and had 7 assists. Maddison scored 10 goals and had 9 assists in a relegated Leicester. Both Maddison and De Bruyne played much less minutes than Bruno.

As for Rashford, there are two seasons he has scored 17 league goals, one of which had 6 penalties out of those 17. The other seasons he has not scored more than 11 league goals. Compare this to the likes of Son, Salah and even Sterling for City. Add the fact that they work three times as hard as Rashford, and are more focused on winning the match rather than being the individual that scores the match winning goal. The difference is staggering.

The best way to improve the team is to get rid of players who aren't team players, which is exactly what Klopp and Pep did. That is the only way to progress, unless your talent is equal to Ronaldo, Messi, Mbappé etc. Even Vinicius Junior who is twice as talented as Rashford got stick for not being a team player, and once he got his shit together he became twice the player. Rashford is in his prime and should not be taught to be that kind of player, or it is already too late. The point is that both Rashford and Bruno needs replaced by other players next summer. They might be our best players in the sense that they're the ones that produce the most, but so what? Look at our position on the table. Do you think we magically are going to create more and score more goals by upgrading on Antony or Højlund?

There have been 3 spells in recent years when we played excellent football as a team in recent years: 1. Post lockdown 2. Ole 2nd year (with Rashford on the right, Cavani up top) and 3. Last year after the World Cup with a game every 3 days. In each of those spells, Rashford and Bruno were great throughout and played well as team players. Specifically Rashford on the right who started crossing more often/creating more. Do you know what the difference was between those spells and now? In each of those games in those spells, when Bruno and Rashford were having a bad game - it was Cavani and Pogba to step up, or Pogba, Martial, and Greenwood during lockdown. Teams now know if you double up on Rashford we don't score. If you mark Bruno more tightly there's no one else that is of threat to them.

The fact is almost ALL top players including Son, Salah, and Sterling go through spells of bad form or even in games where they're running into blind alleys or look disinterested. The difference is that those teams had more players of quality to fill in in their absence. We currently have no other reliable scorers other than those two. I can understand wanting to replace them eventually because of the holes in the game, but it makes much more sense to first get some other reliable goalscorers in the team to see how they play with them first.

I agree that Rashford could run a little more and press more. But looking objectively, at the start of last season when Ten Hag first came in he took a summer off to get fit and came back pressing and running a lot more. Then we played 63 games in a season. 3 games a day for 2/3 months with a World Cup in between. Then we had an 8 game pre season flying to 3 different countries. It's not by coincidence we have had all these injuries to the players that played the most last year and the 3 players that haven't been injured (Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro) all look jaded and are in terrible form. The same thing happened to Liverpool last season. They went all the way in every competition the season before and they spent half of last season suffering the consequences of that.

 

[Bwuk]

I think we have to move on from Rashford being this undroppable superstar.

He's far too patchy. He's been utter shite this year.

 

[lsd]

What, do you think he's going to score 30 goals this season the way he's playing?!

Without him in the team we might have a winger that actually passes and created opportunities

 

[lex talionis]

Post-contract emotional issues??? WTF am I actually reading

It happens quite frequently in professional sports — get the big contract to set you up for life with all the lux chariots you could ever want, then down tools. Perhaps a better way I should put it was psychological, not emotional.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Feckin horrible today

 

[Swiss_Red89]

Bad start into this season....Looks back to the 2021/2022 out of form version...worrying. Was hoping he would kick on from last season but so far it's not good enough.

Early days though. I for one hope he will find his form and confidence soon, otherwise we are in trouble. We cannot rely on garnacho, pellistri and Hojlund too much imo. They are still kids.
Having said that, I would start them vs Gala and bring Rashford on as a Sub vs tired legs.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Atrocious today.

 

[Winrar]

Woeful. I would rather take a chance in Garnacho breaking through as a starter.

 

[AneRu]

Looks like ETH is indulging him like Ole did previously and we all know how that ends.

 

[Carl]

Woeful. I would rather take a chance in Garnacho breaking through as a starter.

It's not even debatable in my opinion. Garnacho should be our starting left winger.

 

[Banana Republic]

After today's match, MUTV interviewed a number of fans in one of the cafe areas.
Most of them singled out Rashford, with all the same critical observations made on the Caf
They thought he should be dropped and shouldn't have been picked today.

All a bit shocking for the company TV channel, where they normally don't tend to allow, or try to steer away from such criticism of any of our players.
The interviewer couldn't bring himself to soften the blow being delivered or cover over the message coming from the fans.

ETH seemed very angry in his post match interview on Sky Sports.
He said something about players being selfish and not looking for team mates, or something like that.
Where was that being aimed ?


.

 

[Neilwij]

Such a frustrating player at the moment of course I don't put all the blame on him as we have other issues as well but it makes you want to pull your hair out everytime he gets into a good position and does the wrong thing.

 

[GazTheLegend]

People who have never played football at any level would think Rashford is a great player to have on your team. These posters don’t possess an ability to judge a players performance - they rely on selective numbers to prove their point.

Anyone who has played football knows what having a player like Rashford does to your team. Yes he’s a nightmare for the opposing defender but…

He is nightmare to play with as well. He doesn’t pass, doesn’t track back enough, backs out of 50/50s.

As a forward, when you don’t get the ball 9/10, you stop getting into good positions and you don’t anticipate the pass that one time as well.

Also, this attitude rubs off on everyone and you start being an individualistic player yourself.

At the moment, he is an incredibly selfish player who needs to work on his decision making and work his way in the team rather than being an automatic starter.

Actually really true. If you play football with anyone similar, all through a game you'll make runs that should end up in chances but if one of the guys you're playing with only ever tries to beat his man and shoot, you eventually just stop bothering with your runs at all. It's unfortunate that it seems like every other prem team has cottoned on to this. Just show Rashford down the left, wait for him to make an error and then boom he's useless to everyone.

 

[stw2022]

The whole 'pretending to be injured for 15 to 20 seconds after fecking up' thing needs calling out too. Walking away with a slight limp that develops suddenly and disappears almost immediately or laying on the ground for a bit before deciding he's fine

 

[Hammondo]

There have been 3 spells in recent years when we played excellent football as a team in recent years: 1. Post lockdown 2. Ole 2nd year (with Rashford on the right, Cavani up top) and 3. Last year after the World Cup with a game every 3 days. In each of those spells, Rashford and Bruno were great throughout and played well as team players. Specifically Rashford on the right who started crossing more often/creating more. Do you know what the difference was between those spells and now? In each of those games in those spells, when Bruno and Rashford were having a bad game - it was Cavani and Pogba to step up, or Pogba, Martial, and Greenwood during lockdown. Teams now know if you double up on Rashford we don't score. If you mark Bruno more tightly there's no one else that is of threat to them.

The fact is almost ALL top players including Son, Salah, and Sterling go through spells of bad form or even in games where they're running into blind alleys or look disinterested. The difference is that those teams had more players of quality to fill in in their absence. We currently have no other reliable scorers other than those two. I can understand wanting to replace them eventually because of the holes in the game, but it makes much more sense to first get some other reliable goalscorers in the team to see how they play with them first.

I agree that Rashford could run a little more and press more. But looking objectively, at the start of last season when Ten Hag first came in he took a summer off to get fit and came back pressing and running a lot more. Then we played 63 games in a season. 3 games a day for 2/3 months with a World Cup in between. Then we had an 8 game pre season flying to 3 different countries. It's not by coincidence we have had all these injuries to the players that played the most last year and the 3 players that haven't been injured (Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro) all look jaded and are in terrible form. The same thing happened to Liverpool last season. They went all the way in every competition the season before and they spent half of last season suffering the consequences of that.

None of those patches were excellent football, all those periods were counter attacking football and we need to ask more of our players now.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Bruno scored 8 goals (2 penalties) and 8 assists in 37 league games last year. For comparison, De Bruyne scored 7 goals and had 16 assists. Ødegaard scored 15 goals and had 7 assists. Maddison scored 10 goals and had 9 assists in a relegated Leicester. Both Maddison and De Bruyne played much less minutes than Bruno.

I'm curious - why did you feel the need to include Bruno's 2 penalties but exclude the penalties for the other players you listed?

 

[-Supreme-]

The whole 'pretending to be injured for 15 to 20 seconds after fecking up' thing needs calling out too. Walking away with a slight limp that develops suddenly and disappears almost immediately or laying on the ground for a bit before deciding he's fine

Just wait till he holds his back pretending to be hurt next time and watch the caf reaction

 

[Ballache]

Again, needs to be dropped. Garnacho was much better when he came on.

 

[zaafi]

I'm curious - why did you feel the need to include Bruno's 2 penalties but exclude the penalties for the other players you listed?

The others didn't score penalties as they weren't their team's penalty taker.

Edit: Double checked, Maddison did score 1 penalty actually. The others didn't. Saka and Haaland are their teams penalty takers.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

The others didn't score penalties as they weren't their team's penalty taker.

Edit: Double checked, Maddison did score 1 penalty actually. The others didn't. Saka and Haaland are their teams penalty takers.

Was gonna say, I remember Pickford saving a Maddison penalty last season. 2 of Odegaard's 3 goals this season have been penalties so I assume you'll be constantly referencing that whenever you bring him up.

 

[KD6-3.7]

Should never have started in the first place in his current form which is atrocious.

Don't know what happens with him that ridiculous contract is going to haunt us because what manager will have the balls to come in and say what we all know and that he isn't good enough if we want to get back to winning trophies.

 

[zaafi]

Was gonna say, I remember Pickford saving a Maddison penalty last season. 2 of Odegaard's 3 goals this season have been penalties so I assume you'll be constantly referencing that whenever you bring him up.

Okay, and yet Maddison is ahead of Bruno in much less time played. I'm not sure what Ødegaard's contributions this season have anything to do with the discussion as we were talking about their contributions for the 22/23 season. We can talk about their final goal and assist count after the season has finished, but I'm pretty sure that Ødegaard will score more open-play goals than Bruno during the season, in the same way that I would assume that Son scores more league goals than Rashford during the season. He is simply a better attacker and footballer.

 

[LordSpud]

Said it after the first couple of games he only played for the contract last year.

At least with Martial when he is fit he's pretty consistent. This guy is just so hot and cold. Probably wouldn't get into Arsenal, City or Liverpool's team.

 

[11101]

He's become our biggest problem. Needs taking out of the team before he costs ETH his job, he contributes nothing and makes it harder for those around him. The 5 minutes of good form every 3 years is not enough.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Okay, and yet Maddison is ahead of Bruno in much less time played. I'm not sure what Ødegaard's contributions this season have anything to do with the discussion as we were talking about their contributions for the 22/23 season. We can talk about their final goal and assist count after the season has finished, but I'm pretty sure that Ødegaard will score more open-play goals than Bruno during the season, in the same way that I would assume that Son scores more league goals than Rashford during the season. He is simply a better attacker and footballer.

In 2 out of the last 4 seasons, Rashford has got more goals and more assists than Son, so it's really not as open and shut as you're making it out to be.

 

[zaafi]

In 2 out of the last 4 seasons, Rashford has got more goals and more assists than Son, so it's really not as open and shut as you're making it out to be.

Maybe not, but I can't imagine you - or any one else - would disagree that he is. I wouldn't say it's all about goals and assists either, because Danny Ings scored 22 PL goals in 19/20 season, but he isn't a better striker than Kane. A lot of examples like these. Add in work rate, technique, link-up, dribbling, passing and more and there shouldn't really be any doubt that Son is a better footballer. You can also look at all of his PL seasons, and not just the last 4.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Wow. Pretty sure he was subbed off...

Today's substitution was a very rare occurrence. Hopefully it's a sign that ETH is not going to tolerate the level of performance Marcus has been putting in.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Today's substitution was a very rare occurrence. Hopefully it's a sign that ETH is not going to tolerate the level of performance Marcus has been putting in.

Here's hoping. He's been wank all season. He's not even putting in the effort. It's like playing with a man down at this point. Unacceptable. Where's the energy and workrate he had when he burst onto the scene? Ten Hag has tried letting him play through it but since that clearly hasn't worked he needs to try a different approach and drop him. Play Garnacho instead.

 

[Mercurial]

People who have never played football at any level would think Rashford is a great player to have on your team. These posters don’t possess an ability to judge a players performance - they rely on selective numbers to prove their point.

Anyone who has played football knows what having a player like Rashford does to your team. Yes he’s a nightmare for the opposing defender but…

He is nightmare to play with as well. He doesn’t pass, doesn’t track back enough, backs out of 50/50s.

As a forward, when you don’t get the ball 9/10, you stop getting into good positions and you don’t anticipate the pass that one time as well.

Also, this attitude rubs off on everyone and you start being an individualistic player yourself.

At the moment, he is an incredibly selfish player who needs to work on his decision making and work his way in the team rather than being an automatic starter.

This isn't exclusive to football, it's universal in any team endeavor from simple to complex, in professional life or in sports or military. A high skill low commitment member can perhaps be accommodated as a one off specialist, but will always be vital but also varying toxic to overal morale. A top skill high commit individual is coveted by all but cant have only those due to scarcity or cost issues. Most successful organisation's have 1 perhaps 2 rotational specialists with commit issues they deploy highly controlled onto a backbone of very high commitment but variable skill team. These specialists are sometimes a must have. Left and right wing isn't such a position, You just cant have a free roaming petulant no track no commit player, maybe a striker can do some of that to conserve energy over 100minutes, but even then thats part of the plan, arguably no position is afforded a low commitment role in the modern game, you have to commit and work hard to press, or even to park a bus vs onslaught is a commitment.

Rashford is a often times or periodically a low commitment player sometimes high skill sometimes no skill individual, unless he performs his highly specialized role well he is a toxic or detrimental influence. But for some reason he is treated as untouchable.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Maybe not, but I can't imagine you - or any one else - would disagree that he is. I wouldn't say it's all about goals and assists either, because Danny Ings scored 22 PL goals in 19/20 season, but he isn't a better striker than Kane. A lot of examples like these. Add in work rate, technique, link-up, dribbling, passing and more and there shouldn't really be any doubt that Son is a better footballer. You can also look at all of his PL seasons, and not just the last 4.

Mate all you ever do is quote stats at people in an attempt to demonstrate why you're right and now you're going to come out with that?! at least be consistent.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I think he's our best and most promising attacker, but he's definitely holding the team back at the moment, for whatever reason. Perhaps he's missing his left back, perhaps he just doesn't buy into EtH's instructions, perhaps he's not executing them well, or maybe the instructions themselves are wrong. Whatever it is, EtH needs to sort this out as a priority. I'm not sure if the solution is to keep him going so he develops a chemistry with Hojlund and Amrabat/Reguilon, or if he needs to be dropped to provide him with more motivation to come off the bench and make an impact. I would prefer the former, still, because he has that odd moment of magic in him that leads to a goal, and it's not worth pissing off your only established attacker at a time of such turmoil.

 

[NZT-One]

There have been 3 spells in recent years when we played excellent football as a team in recent years: 1. Post lockdown 2. Ole 2nd year (with Rashford on the right, Cavani up top) and 3. Last year after the World Cup with a game every 3 days.

Wish I could remember anything that was resembling of "excellent football" since mehr than 10 years. It is a subjective term but boy, really feels like some words lost all their meaning...

 

[NZT-One]

I think he's our best and most promising attacker, but he's definitely holding the team back at the moment, for whatever reason. Perhaps he's missing his left back, perhaps he just doesn't buy into EtH's instructions, perhaps he's not executing them well, or maybe the instructions themselves are wrong. Whatever it is, EtH needs to sort this out as a priority. I'm not sure if the solution is to keep him going so he develops a chemistry with Hojlund and Amrabat/Reguilon, or if he needs to be dropped to provide him with more motivation to come off the bench and make an impact. I would prefer the former, still, because he has that odd moment of magic in him that leads to a goal, and it's not worth pissing off your only established attacker at a time of such turmoil.

I agree. Something is off. It reached a point, where it is obvious that either the manager is fine with him not tracking back (as you would expect him to at least) or he isn't asked to do it. Any way, something needs to happen. A break from the starting eleven might be a needed reset for him. I really don't get it, a guy as talented as him, looking as pointless as he does.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

He's been poor this season and our attack looks even more useless without him contributing like he did.

 

[zaafi]

Mate all you ever do is quote stats at people in an attempt to demonstrate why you're right and now you're going to come out with that?! at least be consistent.

When have I ever said that stats are everything? Maddison, De Bruyne and Ødegaard are not better than Bruno because they score or assist more. It is because they are better footballers. Scoring and assisting more than him is really just something that shows it clearer, but that's not the primary reason.

You are probably the only poster that are defending both Rashford and Bruno. At least others are able to see the flaws in one or the other. I guess the majority on here are wrong and you're right. This has gone so far you're willing to defend them despite their consistent shit performances - game after game. Your dedication is almost admirable, but I guess you are satisfied where we were as a team.

 

[ClassOf'99]

I love the metrics that get threw around in defence for Rashford, as it was the same for Ronaldo.

Ronaldo was our clutch player the season before, our main goal scorer and saved many games but he made us play worse.

Rashford and Bruno are not Ronaldo but improved when he left last season, just because you are a teams "best" player doesn't mean you make your team the best by being on the pitch.

Sometimes the best for a team is to drop their best players for a better system of players that work for each other.

This is the position we are in with Bruno and Rashford, their replacements (Hannibal & Garnacho) worked their socks off and we looked a team mid week. They come back in and we can't produce a similar performance, small sample size but if we persist with them we will never know what we can be without.