Well you could say Dortmund would like to convince Reus to join Chelsea so they could get Schürrle cheaper, but I really can't imagine Dortmund being in for Schürrle at all. They have enough players like him in the squad.
Marco Reus
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Well you could say Dortmund would like to convince Reus to join Chelsea so they could get Schürrle cheaper, but I really can't imagine Dortmund being in for Schürrle at all. They have enough players like him in the squad.
Didn't Dortmund try and persuade Lewandowski to join a team abroad? Look how that turned out. It's completely Reus' decision.
Well, a transfer to Chelsea does make a lot of sense for both parties, really. There's a place ready for him there, unlike at Real, Barca or Bayern.
A place ready for him there in his favoured position?
I'm gonna be absolutely gutted the day I see/hear the headlines "Reus signs for <club that isn't Manchester United>"
He'll join Bayern Munich.
That would be a really shite thing to do to his boyhood club TBF.
He is a professional and Götze did the same. It's a no brainer and what I've heard from people who should know it's pretty close.
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Me thinks the same. Bayern aren't gonna let this one slip through their fingers.
They'll pay the 25 Mil. from their petty cash.
In Germany there is Bayern Munich and there is basically no club right behind them.
All the others are just a distant second at best. That's why Bayern have such a strong appeal to german footballers. It's like joining Ferrari.
Also Reus might not be the one who chooses a career in a foreign country. I wouldn't rate him as the cosmopolitan guy.
Yeah, no doubt it makes sense from a purely professional perspective. Not arguing that.
But it just leaves a bad taste in the mouth after Bayern have already poached 2 of BVB's most important players in consecutive summer windows. Furthermore Reus and Gotze's cases are a bit different. Mario wasn't a Dortmund native born and bred like Reus, matter of fact he was a Bavarian from Memmingen (70 odd miles from Munich) so joining Bayern could be considered a sort of homecoming.
For the fans and Klopp, Reus' "betrayal" if we can term it as such would be more difficult to handle IMO. It's a bit like - Scouser joins United's academy and later jumps ship for Liverpool vs Manc born and raised joins United's academy from an early age and later jumps ship for Liverpool.
Not really,
Reus left them with 16 and joined them with 23 again. He joined them because he couldn't get any guarantees at Bayern Munich and knew he could develop better at Dortmund. Götze may have been a Bavarian, but it doesn't change the fact that he played for Dortmund since he was 9 years old.
From what I've heard from Dortmund supporters is that they kinda have given up on the thought of keeping Reus and that they simply beg that won't be joining Bayern Munich. Not anywhere near the animosity that Götze got.
Dortmund might get the fans vote for keeping ticket prices cheap etc but if they are not willing to pay their top players big wages then they will always lose out to the rest of Europe.
I know that. Still it doesn't change the fact that he's a native and a longtime Dortmund fan (as is his family) so it would be hard to take. Purely my opinion, but despite media reports it would be very surprising indeed if he joins Bayern. Reckon he'll join a foreign club or maybe something out of the blue - like dig his nails in and try to haul Dortmund back enhancing his hero status in the process. That said I've been wrong plenty of times before. Maybe I'm putting disproportionate emphasis on his sense of loyalty. Dunno TBF.
Am I the only one seeing him in RM ? They'll probably just flog Bayol or Ronaldo for some idiotic cash and get him.
Why? You support United, surely it'd make more sense for you to sympathise with Bayern.
If they sell Reus this year (which is looking increasingly likely) they might.
I think you would be in the minority to think that Reus is better than Bale. Personally I think Reus has more in his locker overall than him, but Bale is one of the best counter-attacking footballers in the world, something Real are the best at.
I thought both Bale and Ronaldo were coming to United in the summer?
And ?
Schürrle is very one dimensional and pretty much only suits the fast counter attacking style. He's used as an impact sub for Chelsea (or in the big games where Chelsea play very defensive) and in the National team, but Dortmund have enough players like him already. Reus brings a lot more to the Dortmund team than just pace, he's a very good dribbler, excellent at set-pieces and his passing is also top notch. If Reus leaves then BVB should be looking at that kind of player...
Obviously they won't get a replacement of equal quality but I hope they go for someone who offers more for the team. Maybe get Firmino play him in the number 10 role and use Mkhitaryan wide.
He means that we also poached players from our rivals and Arsenal know that too well. And he is right too.
It's not about who's better though, it's about RM's fecked up 'policy' of selling their stars and buying players for shirt sales. They've sold us ADM to get James Rodriguez.
Us, idiotic amount of money, sounds about right!
Nah.
We poached Van Persie (equivalent to Lewandowski) I'll give him that. And that's about it regarding our direct domestic rivals in the last 10-15 years. Mata was almost forced out of the club and considered surplus to needs by Mourinho. Shaw from Southampton, hardly traditional rivals. Fellaini from Everton. Ferdinand was sold because Leeds' finances were a mess. Jones was acquired from Blackburn, Smalling from Fulham, Owen on a Bosman from Newcastle, Young from Villa, Berbatov and Carrick from Spurs, Alan Smith from a struggling Leeds, Valencia from Wigan, Edwin and Saha from Fulham again, Zaha from Palace, Powell from Crewe and so forth.
Since 2000 we've forcefully bought 1 marquee player from our usual title competitors in a way that would weaken them and disrupt their ambitions moving forward. I struggle to see how we're equivalent to Bayern in that sense, who with the possible transfer of Reus would have bought 3 of the 5 most important players in as many summers windows from a side that was the closest to challenging their domestic dominance. United never plundered the likes of Arsenal during their peak seasons, or Chelsea during Mourinho's first spell, or Liverpool when they spiked up intermittently or City in recent seasons.
So I don't really agree with his insinuations on the basis of one sole transfer of Van Persie. His claims would be more apt for City who bought 3, possibly 4 good players in Nasri, Clichy, Toure, Sagna in a way that would weaken Arsenal and deplete their overall level of experience.
Not expensive enough for them to do that.
You tried signing Nasri the year before you signed van Persie. And you probably would have succeeded if it weren't for City.
I think we should deal more in actuality than transfers that never came to fruition. If we're tallying such instances then one could similarly state that Wenger made cursory approaches for Rooney and Suarez in the summer of 2013. Those are two of Arsenal's big rivals historically in terms of silverware. He even made some unsettling remarks in his media briefings alluding to such, especially the "It happened to us last year and it can happen to them" assertion wrt Wayne and Robin.
And this can't be painted in his favor with the assertion of Wayne being want-away either. The way I see it so was Van Persie, particularly in the wake of his disenchantment with Arsenal's future plans and lack of investment. In terms of pure bulk, we took only Van Persie with Welbeck and Silvestre going the other way. So that's 1 v 2. Disproportionate in terms of quality ? Maybe. But definitely inferior numerically.
You must be joking with that comparison?
If Rooney joined Arsenal then it would only have been if United wanted him gone, the same with Welbeck and Silvestre. There's no way on earth Arsenal could sign a top player that United actually wanted to keep. Face it, for all the criticism United fans give Bayern your own club uses other PL teams in the same way. Probably worse in my opinion. Obviously City and Chelsea are anomalies because of all the money that was pumped into those clubs, and they have no counterparts in Germany. If Roman and Mansour didn't take over Chelsea and City then United would have continued signing the best players from any club that got too close to them. The signings of Rooney, Carrick, and Berbatov from from Everton and Spurs ('2nd tier' clubs) shows that.
Under the late years of Fergie Arsenal and Wenger weren't our rivals at all(The CL semi final showed that). Getting Van Persie from Arsenal was no different from getting Berbatov from Spurs.
When Bayern got Gotze, Dortmund has just won the league the previous season.
So it's hardly the same.
You must be joking with that comparison?
Face it, for all the criticism United fans give Bayern your own club uses other PL teams in the same way. Probably worse in my opinion. Obviously City and Chelsea are anomalies because of all the money that was pumped into those clubs, and they have no counterparts in Germany. If Roman and Mansour didn't take over Chelsea and City then United would have continued signing the best players from any club that got too close to them. The signings of Rooney, Carrick, and Berbatov from from Everton and Spurs ('2nd tier' clubs) shows that.
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You must be joking with that comparison?
Face it, for all the criticism United fans give Bayern your own club uses other PL teams in the same way. Probably worse in my opinion. Obviously City and Chelsea are anomalies because of all the money that was pumped into those clubs, and they have no counterparts in Germany. If Roman and Mansour didn't take over Chelsea and City then United would have continued signing the best players from any club that got too close to them. The signings of Rooney, Carrick, and Berbatov from from Everton and Spurs ('2nd tier' clubs) shows that.
What ? You state Rooney, Welbeck and Silvestre would've only left if United allowed them to. Doesn't that apply to Robin too ? If Arsenal were hellbent on keeping Robin like BVB were with Lewandowski, they could've made him play through the contract year and let him walk on a Bosman, which happened in Robert's case. You didn't have to sell him if you didn't want to, it's that simple. Football contracts are binding in a court of law, the player can kick up a bit of a fuss, but he's bound to the club for as long as the legal obligation lasts. You prioritized a return in investment over another year from Van Persie, unlike Gotze's binding release clause or Lewandowski's contract expiration or Reus' imminent release clause. So it's hardly the same in terms of it being a consciously controlled decision by the seller club.
And to address the second part of your post, you're insinuating that United weakens the league by siphoning off some mid-lower league table clubs' players right ? Well then, for every Rooney for United, there's a Campbell for Arsenal and Ginter for Dortmund, for a Berbatov for United there's an Arteta for Arsenal and Sokratis for Dortmund, for a Carrick for United, there's a Debuchy for Arsenal and a Gundogan for Dortmund. That's aside from the likes of Chambers, Ramsey, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Jenkinson, Gallas, Diarra, Walcott etc. Not to mention the blatant tapping of Barcelona products, who were painstakingly trained by the Catalan club only to be ripped off with minimum compensation in return. So you see, there's no moral high ground to be taken here, not much of a difference between United and Arsenal in terms of core purchasing philosophy of buying good upcoming players and developing them. The victim card might work against City but not the bigger, better, more storied and more successful club of Manchester.
@Invictus No point arguing here mate. I'm just surprised he hasn't included the RVP example from Arsenal as an example for weakening a '2nd tier' club which was creeping too close to us for our liking
If there's no moral ground to be gained then why do United fans on here post so much about how 'Bayern are ruining German football'. Blatant double standard.
Mate, with all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.
That is not even remotely close to being similar situations. Explain to me how it's worse too.
@Invictus No point arguing here mate. I'm just surprised he hasn't included the RVP example from Arsenal as an example for weakening a '2nd tier' club which was creeping too close to us for our liking
True that.
And the Robin example was a bit inappropriate too, even though I allowed it. BVB are unarguably Bayern's primary domestic rivals for the last half decade. A haul of Gotze, Lewandowski and possibly Reus would be equivalent to Henry, Pires and Fabregas from when Arsenal and United duked it out for the league crown.
Look, at the end of the day it's all just business. You think Dortmund won't buy Bayern's players, if the roles were reversed? Dortmund actually buys players from the Bundesliga so what does that make Dortmund? What does it matter, if they are rivals of the buying club? Gotze wanted to go, Lewandowski too... Blaming Bayern for this is just stupid.
If it wasn't Bayern, it would have been someone else and it wouldn't have made a difference. Bayern would have brought another good player.
Does it matter, if Arsenal were competing for the title when they sold us RVP? We are still weakening a team. Who knows what he could have done for them especially last year when they had Giroud and were competing for the league until their bottling at the end.
You're just trying to dilute the actual point by using vaguely similar situations.
It's like saying a serial killer that targets members of his family is just a murderer like other murderers at the end of the day. It doesn't matter that he's killed lots of people, it's still just murder and it doesn't matter that they were all members of his family, they're still just people. Well, put all the facts together and he killed multiple people and they were all members of his family and it's a pretty big deal that he's a serial killer targeting family.
Bayern didn't just buy anyone, they bought their direct rivals best player, not once, not twice but three times as there's a good chance it'll be a forth. That is a big deal when it comes to competition in the league. So you can dissect it all you like and break it down to Bayern buying from the Bundesliga and any other club could have bought them, but they didn't, Bayern did and it killed the competition.
Yeah, because the last season Götze played with Dortmund was oh so competitive... c'mon mate.
"Killed any chance of competition". Better?
That analogy doesn't quite work. It'd be more like legally murdering a coworker vying for the same promotion, or something along those lines, although I don't know why murder was brought up in the first place as these two situations are completely incomparable. It's not Bayern's job to look out for the best interest of the league, it's the German FA's. As long as Bayern are playing within the guidelines, whatever they decide to do to reach their goals is fine by me. If anything, the blame should go towards Gotze and Lewandowski for joining Dortmund's rivals. Bayern weren't holding a gun to their heads forcing them to join, and they would have had no shortage of elite clubs fighting for their signature.
United and Bayern are two sides of the same coin. The only difference is that the sugar daddies decided to invest in two PL clubs rather than German clubs which spread out the wealth and talent in the PL whereas Bayern have no equal in Germany. Dortmund are not on Bayern's level in terms of squad (except in recent seasons), stature, fan base, finance, expectations, etc. At Bayern, Bundesliga and CL titles are expected and required and they'll do whatever they can do achieve that, even at the expense of Dortmund or any German club with talented players. It's just a microcosm of life, the big fish will always eat the little fish.
I still don't understand how Götze going to City and Lewandowski to Real while Bayern bought someone else, let's say Falcao and di Maria, would have made a huge difference for the 'chance of competition' ? The same with Reus now. Unless he stays, it doesn't help Dortmund at all. The whole idea that Dortmund is more competitive when Reus moves to Chelsea instead of Bayern is mind-boggling. I understand the emotional part, it clearly sucks for the fans when a player moves to a rival in the league. The whole Bayern kills the competition argument is plain stupid though.
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