Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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pocco said:
My prediction is he'll be great in some games where he wins the ball and can just allow others around him to do their thing. But there will be games where a well coached team will use his aggression against him. Draw him into challenges, pull him out of position and have runners in behind doing the damage. Kind of like an exacerbated version of last season.

The big question will be how he adapts to the league and which performance will be the norm for him.

Or Ten Hag will do his usual tricks and have him in and around the box, as he often does Casemiro, McTominay etc. At which point he'll no longer be able to do what he's good at.
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I think the club and ETH since Jason Wilcox came in last season have done a much better job of being compact in midfield and not giving up the huge spaces we saw for most of last season.

I'm confident the coaching staff and Ashworth/Wilcox have a very specific role in mind for Ugarte that fits into the press heavy style we've seen against city & fulham this season.

Having seen Ugarte in the copas and numerous highlight videos he reminds me of Gattuso a lot. Long term we may need a dlp though to compliment his game.
 
croadyman said:
I think the trouble is you get these daft comparisons to the likes of Rodri, also people sore we didn't sign either of Onana or Neves so will highlight his worst stats just to prove a point
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I mean the comparisons are simply because we are going to be deploying Ugarte as that sole 6 like Casemiro currently plays. Not much more than that.
 
Nickelodeon said:
Don’t understand the compulsive need to prove that you’ve rightly identified him as a dud/star. We’ll see the proof in due time. Save your fingers for bigger (keyboard) battles.
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Really is fascinating seeing people chomping at the bit to proclaim players flops before they're even through the door...

The mentality of the modern fan needs studying :lol: It's like being proven right, even to the detriment of your team, has come to provide more of an endorphin release for some than seeing your club succeed.

Plainly telling people that they can't wait for failure simply to say I told you so, very strange way of 'supporting' a team...
 
Rolaholic said:
Really is fascinating seeing people chomping at the bit to proclaim players flops before they're even through the door...

The mentality of the modern fan needs studying :lol: It's like being proven right, even to the detriment of your team, has come to provide more of an endorphin release for some than seeing your club succeed.

Plainly telling people that they can't wait for failure simply to say I told you so, very strange way of 'supporting' a team...
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I'll trust Dan Ashworth and Wilcox a little bit more than the transfer forum here
 
pocco said:
My prediction is he'll be great in some games where he wins the ball and can just allow others around him to do their thing. But there will be games where a well coached team will use his aggression against him. Draw him into challenges, pull him out of position and have runners in behind doing the damage. Kind of like an exacerbated version of last season.

The big question will be how he adapts to the league and which performance will be the norm for him.

Or Ten Hag will do his usual tricks and have him in and around the box, as he often does Casemiro, McTominay etc. At which point he'll no longer be able to do what he's good at.
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In a round about way you’ve said what I’ve been thinking and saying for a long time…..that his ability to excel in the league will come down to the instructions he’s given on the field. Yes, players have innate qualities that lend themselves better to certain styles of play than others, but they are also essentially malleable to the vision of the coaching staff.

If I take Rodri and tell him to sit in front of the defence and screen it and do little else, he’ll do it better than anyone in the world, if I tell McTominay to do the same job, he’ll do it to a lower level. What he won’t do is run all over the pitch like a headless chicken, unless I’ve given him the explicit freedom or lack of instruction to do so. Far too much is made of needing new signings to implement a vision, whereas not enough attention is paid to the instructions the players are given.

Last year our defence was exposed by a lack of midfield protection, not because Casemiro and Mainoo are incapable of providing it, and not because they decided to go rogue and do whatever the feck the wanted, but because they received explicit instructions to play in a way that resulted in a ridiculously open midfield. It was suicidal coaching that only got better once Wilcox came in and insisted upon a more coherent and orthodox approach to games.

So while I think Ugarte has most of the tools to be an excellent player in a double pivot system for us, the bigger question I have is whether he will be used properly and given the right instructions that make not only his individual performances noteworthy, but also improve us as a collective. This has, and continued to be the biggest question mark over ETH as a head coach. His ability to set a team up properly and give players instructions that are actually realistic on the pitch and have a collectively coherent approach.
 
Teja said:
You can still make a decision on overpay vs not even if we're signing prime Messi right? (well maybe not actually Messi, but you get the point).

It's hard to argue Yoro wasn't an overpay. He had a year left on the deal and his market value was nowhere close to 70M EUR. The payment was just a creative way to actually get the player. We paid and the club / agents / whoever off and they pulled off some judo move to convince him to move to United. I'm not very optimistic that he'll actually stay the full 10 years if he fulfills his potential and we'll have a similar contract situation as Lille in 3 years.

Anyway, independent of all of that, we paid above market for both players. If they come good, then it's genius and if they don't then they look like idiots.
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Put it this way with Yoro: He’s good enough where whichever big club signed him he wouldn’t be leaving there for a long amount of time if he developed into what many believe. The same way Varane was never available until he was in his late 20’s, or Saliba won’t be for 5-7 more years provided his levels are high.

So for that type of player, you basically get one shot before you never presumably see them again. If Yoro was at a Prem club last season he’d have cost us more than what Everton want for Branthwaite. So I don’t really see it as an overpay because if you get a generational type talent it’s always a good move. Same way Madrid buying Tchouameini wasn’t an overpay. Even if Yoro doesn’t ultimately work out he’ll be able to recoup a good portion of that fee on a sale.

In terms of Ugarte, I think we see many players with his style of profile pop up through the seasons and I don’t think he’s particularly unique in that. It’s a good piece to have, but I’m not convinced it’s THE piece like INEOS seem to be.
 
Rolaholic said:
Really is fascinating seeing people chomping at the bit to proclaim players flops before they're even through the door...

The mentality of the modern fan needs studying :lol: It's like being proven right, even to the detriment of your team, has come to provide more of an endorphin release for some than seeing your club succeed.

Plainly telling people that they can't wait for failure simply to say I told you so, very strange way of 'supporting' a team...
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Who has proclaimed him a flop or said they can’t wait for failure in here?
 
thomas porter said:
I think the club and ETH since Jason Wilcox came in last season have done a much better job of being compact in midfield and not giving up the huge spaces we saw for most of last season.

I'm confident the coaching staff and Ashworth/Wilcox have a very specific role in mind for Ugarte that fits into the press heavy style we've seen against city & fulham this season.
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I agree with this. The tactical blueprint is there and we won't be questioning why we signed him this season. I can see uses for Mainoo + Ugarte + Bruno, Casemiro + Ugarte + Bruno, Ugarte, Mount, Bruno etc. depending on the tactical needs, game situation etc. I also think Mainoo, Ugarte, Bruno is more balanced than Mainoo, Neves / Onana, Bruno.

The possibility (or rather the probability) here is we continue to be incapable of good build up even with Ugarte and people will be up in arms demanding we sign a playmaker instead. So if the long term solution at #6 is a deep lying playmaker of the Rodri mould, then is it really worth spending ~60M on a tough tackling midfielder?

I'd argue yes. It's a useful profile to have in the squad. City spent ~50M for Phillips. Fred for all his faults was quite useful for us many many times. Even if we sign a Rodri type player, I think we could use him in the medium / long term.
 
It doesn't really matter if the agreed fee is €50m, €55m or €60m...it's much more important to us that the payment structure is somewhat favourable to us/the way we need it to be (like the Zirkzee-deal), and that we don't go overboard with his wages and make him unsellable if he underperforms.
 
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Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Put it this way with Yoro: He’s good enough where whichever big club signed him he wouldn’t be leaving there for a long amount of time if he developed into what many believe. The same way Varane was never available until he was in his late 20’s, or Saliba won’t be for 5-7 more years provided his levels are high.

So for that type of player, you basically get one shot before you never presumably see them again. If Yoro was at a Prem club last season he’d have cost us more than what Everton want for Branthwaite. So I don’t really see it as an overpay because if you get a generational type talent it’s always a good move. Same way Madrid buying Tchouameini wasn’t an overpay. Even if Yoro doesn’t ultimately work out he’ll be able to recoup a good portion of that fee on a sale.

In terms of Ugarte, I think we see many players with his style of profile pop up through the seasons and I don’t think he’s particularly unique in that. It’s a good piece to have, but I’m not convinced it’s THE piece like INEOS seem to be.
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Yeah hard to argue with that. As I was saying here, I think he'll be a useful profile in the squad even in the medium / longer term and these types of players seem to go for 50M or so. 60M is a small overpay but if the scouts are convinced then I guess it's fine.
 
Here we go by tomorrow night? Seems like this one is starting to bubble to the top
 
Won’t make the Brighton game obviously but I think he’ll be in the team for Liverpool the week after.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I’m not at my PC to crop it all but his Sporting numbers are far better. I just hesitate to use those as much because the Portuguese league isn’t close physically to the PL. Ligue 1 is actually an excellent league compared to the rest as far as what translates physically to the Prem. It’s why I’m so confident in Yoro.
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I thought so, just thought it would be interesting to see it from another perspective. Didn't really get a run of games at PSG and doesn't really suit Enrique's style of play. His performances in Copa America for Uruguay were much better for example. Copa America is a very physical competition and his performances there and for Sporting are what give me optimism. His performances for PSG were really underwhelming though and a bit of a worry.
 
thomas porter said:
Having seen Ugarte in the copas and numerous highlight videos he reminds me of Gattuso a lot. Long term we may need a dlp though to compliment his game.
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Completely agree and it's something we are still going to lack this season. I'm hopeful that over the course of the next 12 months the likes of Eriksen, McT and Casemiro will be moved on and a top class DLP will be brought in
 
I understand the hard on plenty of people have for Neves, but there are few things in my mind which i think must have tilted us towards Ugarte and i strongly believe he will be a better fit based on the same.

1) He is taller and physically stronger than Neves which is a very important aspect for PL.
2) He is signed to ultimately replace Casemiro, who will be sold next season.
3) Neves, Maino and Bruno is too lightweight of midfield and would be somewhat bullied in PL.
4) Ugarte is perfect for the style of play ETH wants to implement with Bruno and Mount/Hojlund pressing on top and Cas and Ugarte in the middle, with Licha and De Ligt at the back.

In addition, it clearly shows, we have gone for players with specific attributes in Maz, De Ligt, Yoro, Zhirkee and Ugarte (all press resistant and very high pressers, plus tall and physically stronger players which translates well in to PL).
 
the_cliff said:
I thought so, just thought it would be interesting to see it from another perspective. Didn't really get a run of games at PSG and doesn't really suit Enrique's style of play. His performances in Copa America for Uruguay were much better for example. Copa America is a very physical competition and his performances there and for Sporting are what give me optimism. His performances for PSG were really underwhelming though and a bit of a worry.
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Yeah I mean at the very least it’s great to have another hyper active combatitive midfielder, and finally 2 DM options.

I will also freely admit that it’s possible I’m letting a bit of bias cloud my view on this as Onana was by far my favored DM option next to Mainoo coming into this summer.
 
Blood Mage said:
Nobody is denying he's a good player just that 60m euros is too much.
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If you just go through a small part of this thread, you’d be surprised. Some folks have a problem with the fee which is fine but others are genuinely concerned.
 
BuzzKillington said:
Nobody really, i think most people who have reservations (myself included) tend to be due to the potential fee, rather than the player himself.

At worst he’ll be a useful squad option, at best he could be a beast.
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Yeah my main reservation comes from my skepticism on us seemingly locking in fully on Ugarte as THE guy this summer when I’m not sure his level and attributes deserved that. Doesn’t matter now, hopefully he’s Kante reincarnated
 
Rolaholic said:


Definitely gonna be put to the test...
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These injury record mean absolutely nothing though to be fair. We signed an 18 year old CB that as only ever been injured or out for 3 days before he joined us. Signed Hojlund who’s only ever been out for like 9/10 days before joining us.
 
DJ_21 said:
These injury record mean absolutely nothing though to be fair. We signed an 18 year old CB that as only ever been injured or out for 3 days before he joined us. Signed Hojlund who’s only ever been out for like 9/10 days before joining us.
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United were aware of an issue with his foot before we signed Yoro
 
I don't understand the naysayers, what we've been lacking is a defender that can cover the ground. It would be lovely to have a Rodri, but that's nonexistent at present.

We have a lot of creativity in Mainoo and Bruno, what we need more than anything is someone that lets them loose. He is that!

Besides, unless we sack Ten Hag, controlled slow possession is not how we play.
 
A player like Ugarte would benefit a player like Maguire and Lindelof, assuming they stay, because the high line can be maintained knowing you have a shithouse ball retriever in front of you/next to you like prime Ndidi was at Leicester with Lindelof or when we saw the best of Casemiro his first year at United with Lindelof playing a lot of matches with Lisandro.

The midfield has needed proper bite and steel with the requisite skill for many years now. With someone like Mainoo next to him or even a more forward thinking Casemiro, it would be a great addition to the squad.
 
I guess PSG don't need to worry about money (so they can set the transfer fee) and they saw how much United paid for Yoro (also playing in France)

So I'm beginning to think United will be the ones to pay up in this stand-off.
 
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