Manchester United view sidelining Marcus Rashford as key to cultural reboot

Socratic said:
Does this cultural reboot include accepting losing games?
Because seemingly the majority of our fans have bought into Amorim's idea of pain being necessary/unavoidable.
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I think most sane fans have accepted that this season was going to have losses. He started half way through a season with a poorly conceived squad, with multiple issues.

We as fans should temper our expectations to seeing clear progress on the pitch in terms of developing an identity. I think we can see that so losses aren’t as annoying as they were under ETH where i could see no progress, no hints that the coach knew what he was doing and he was getting beat.

My own opinion is that we got the best up and coming coach, so we need to back him as fans and as a club they need to support him
 
golden_blunder said:
I think most sane fans have accepted that this season was going to have losses. He started half way through a season with a poorly conceived squad, with multiple issues.

We as fans should temper our expectations to seeing clear progress on the pitch in terms of developing an identity. I think we can see that so losses aren’t as annoying as they were under ETH where i could see no progress, no hints that the coach knew what he was doing and he was getting beat.

My own opinion is that we got the best up and coming coach, so we need to back him as fans and as a club they need to support him
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This.... I said it jokingly during the match yesterday. They should've left ETH even longer at job and given him even more money, cause they made it way too easy for Amorim.

The state of the squad and club was/is in can not be underestimated and Amorim with his staff and Berrada and the gang has a huuuge job on their hand to turn this around. But I genuinely believe in them, there was signs in the first matches that this system is a good system. Amorim just need players that fit for his playing style. But also, for the people scared about us yet again buying players just for one manager. The type of players Amorim needs and wants are players that fit in most systems, because they are athletic players who also have a good football IQ.
 
golden_blunder said:
He’s told us that he wants to leave. Why are you wasting your time defending someone who doesn’t want to be at United anymore? I don’t understand the mentality
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He was taken out of the team before he said he is open to a new challenge and he made that statement after there was leaks that the club do not want him and most of our fans have been begging for him to leave with a rashford out movement picking more and more steam and making our he's our biggest problem now he's finally given them what they want, they're still not happy. You couldn't make it up.

Why can't I defend someone who's been hounded out of the club and blamed for everything to the point his own fans are putting up banners mocking him in games he is not even turned up in? not everything is black and white, I think he should be sold for his own sake and so we can upgrade but there is a way to go about things.

One day we will learn football is a team game and the teams results is not solely dependant on one player you would think the last 3 defeats would have hit that fact home, but a new scapegoat is already getting loaded up
 
Does he come back in for the Newcastle game? He's a million times better than the options we now have available to us
 
groovyalbert said:
Does he come back in for the Newcastle game? He's a million times better than the options we now have available to us
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He isn't, and he also clearly isn't motivated by been dropped either or he'd have been back a couple of game ago now.
 
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JBG said:
This.... I said it jokingly during the match yesterday. They should've left ETH even longer at job and given him even more money, cause they made it way too easy for Amorim.

The state of the squad and club was/is in can not be underestimated and Amorim with his staff and Berrada and the gang has a huuuge job on their hand to turn this around. But I genuinely believe in them, there was signs in the first matches that this system is a good system. Amorim just need players that fit for his playing style. But also, for the people scared about us yet again buying players just for one manager. The type of players Amorim needs and wants are players that fit in most systems, because they are athletic players who also have a good football IQ.
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Who would say no to Pedro Porro and Nunez here? After playing for Amorim they transitioned well to back four systems for their teams. I don't see what the fuss is about. The issue we have is that Ten Hag assembled an unathletic side, the same side which cost him his job and it's going to take years to fully undo his disastrous spell.
 
lsd said:
Nothing at United makes any sense anymore. It just seems to me the decision has been made to force him out as soon as possible and I'm just hoping it's too raise funds to bring in players that will make the difference for us.

I do feel bad that we are doing this to a a guy who's been here since he was ten years old and is a decent person.

However as we have seen time and time again it's very easy for the media and people in charge to make people believe what they want and follow them blindly.
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I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
 
Does “cultural reboot” mean putting as much effort as Rashford did? Because all I see is disinterested players already throwing the new manager under the bus. It’s not even about the new system, they clearly refuse to fight. That’s blatant sabotaging imo. What Bruno did was sabotaging. He didn’t forget he has a yellow, he chose to get sent off.
Amorim has almost no support from this squad, just like Rangnick.
 
lsd said:
Because he is so much better than those starting over him
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In what role in our formation? He's a terrible 9 and not one of the 10s either. You have to completely set the team up to cater for him to get the best out of him and we've moved on from that.
 
stepic said:
Except he isn’t.
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You're telling me that Hojlund(he has potential), Zirkzee, Amad (lots of talent), Dalot, Garnacho (potential) and Antony are better and more talented than a Rashford who's one of the best goalscorers in the club's long history?
 
Xtal said:
I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
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You are having an absolute laugh with this. The new manager in a matter of weeks realised he isnt good for the squad. Cant even be arsed to train to a good standard whilst pocketing a kings wage.

And while you conveniently blame it all on the new guy, give us a reason why ETH eventually gave up and started benching/subbing him this season aswell. Because it couldnt possibly be the player could it
 
Xtal said:
I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
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He’s light years from being top quality. He’s average at best. We should have got rid of him several years ago.
 
Rashford has our most league goals under Amorim. A continuing record under every manager.

In 2 starts we won 1, drew 1. Since being dropped from starting XI, we have 1 win, 4 losses.

Funnily, Rashford has 3 goals in 219 mins. Since being dropped from the squad, the entire club has 2 goals in 270 mins.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Rashford has our most league goals under Amorim. A continuing record under every manager.

In 2 starts we won 1, drew 1. Since being dropped from starting XI, we have 1 win, 4 losses.

Funnily, Rashford has 3 goals in 219 mins. Since being dropped from the squad, the entire club has 2 goals in 270 mins.
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Am I right in thinking Joshua goal machine Zirkzee would have similar stats if he had sat out all our difficult fixtures under Amorim in the same way that Rashford has?
 
golden_blunder said:
The club are within their rights to drop him (and rightly so). The coach has been saying the right things about him which differed from ETH and Sancho. Rashford made this bigger than it needed by his interview effectively saying that he wanted to go. Most players who are dropped keep their head down and work to get back in. Not him. Can’t wait to see the back of him at this stage, he just brings unwanted media pressure / circus
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The club have been shopping him around for months briefing the press. Plus obviously Rashford would pull that shit which the club should have anticipated.

As I said the club needs to get smarter with these situations.
 
I'm amazed that some people can't think a little bit further than just "but if we play Rashford maybe we'd score a few more goals".
 
groovyalbert said:
He is way better than having to endure Antony or Zirkzee, suggesting otherwise is nonsense
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He is a better player for sure, but hasn't shown it consistantly for ages now.

He won't work as hard as Antony or Garnacho, and we have Amad taking the other wing positions, Rashford has proven he's not a striker enough times already, so I don't see why he should come back in. Unless of course he's agreed to stop doing whatever Amorim dropped him for.
 
lsd said:
Because he is so much better than those starting over him
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Is he really that good? Because from the outside Manchester United have been a joke way long before he was dropped and if he isn't doing the bare minimun in training and has declared he's ready for a 'new challenge' then I think everybody (the fans) should move on. He isn't very good to begin with so I really don't see the point on insisting on a mediocre player who wants to leave and isn't behaving like a professional.
 
groovyalbert said:
Does he come back in for the Newcastle game? He's a million times better than the options we now have available to us
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What?

No. He isn't anywhere near it.

If Amorim somehow manages to figure out how to use Rashford, play to his strengths - and so forth, then fine - he could have a serviceable player on his hands.

But Rashford is not a player Amorim needs to figure out and use. It could just as well be a very wise decison on his part never to give another minute to Rashford.
 
Acheron said:
Is he really that good? Because from the outside Manchester United have been a joke way long before he was dropped and if he isn't doing the bare minimun in training and has declared he's ready for a 'new challenge' then I think everybody (the fans) should move on. He isn't very good to begin with so I really don't see the point on insisting on a mediocre player who wants to leave and isn't behaving like a professional.
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You don't have to be "that good" to be better than those starting over him. He's been poor generally, and he's not a number 9, but he's still clearly better as a number 9 than Høylund and Zirkzee.
 
Xtal said:
I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
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How do you know it’s unprovoked?

Seems pretty clear there’s stuff going on behind the scenes with Rashford and his relationship with the club/squad that we’re not privy to.
 
NotThatSoph said:
You don't have to be "that good" to be better than those starting over him. He's been poor generally, and he's not a number 9, but he's still clearly better as a number 9 than Høylund and Zirkzee.
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Yup, your options are dire but he isn't the answer and if he's being disruptive and has a bad attitude then he shouldn't be missed. He isn't good enough for the team to let him behave like that.
 
Time to bring him back vs Newcastle.
I would try to play him of Zirkzee as we did vs Everton. At least that tactic worked.

And do not come with "Everton was shite". They have conceded one Goal since that game.
 
Garethw said:
As shit as he has been, he’s still the clubs best option for scoring goals. Which just shows how utterly catastrophic our recruitment has been.
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Exactly this. An absolute calamity situation where we have paid through the nose for two PL strikers.
Xtal said:
I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
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Rashford was top quality, but not at this point in time. Regardless of what is/has gone on behind the scenes, it hasn’t just been a single misdemeanour from him. Bad form is one thing, but bad attitude is another level.

Who knows what levels he could have reached with the right coaching, position and personal desire.

I just don’t see it turning out to be another RVP situation. More akin to Welbeck leaving. Sentiment aside, it is likely time for both club and Rashford to part ways so we can all move on.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
What?

No. He isn't anywhere near it.

If Amorim somehow manages to figure out how to use Rashford, play to his strengths - and so forth, then fine - he could have a serviceable player on his hands.

But Rashford is not a player Amorim needs to figure out and use. It could just as well be a very wise decison on his part never to give another minute to Rashford.
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I know he's massively out of form and favour, and I don't disagree with moving him on but people have very short memories here.

I will confidently say right now that none of our attackers will end up hitting the heights Rashford has whilst at Utd, and Rashford will end up being thought of more favourably in the long run.
 
Obviously Rashford wants to go and has said so to Amorim. Maybe he's already made a deal with PSG or whatever.
Or he just refuses to play to force his way out.
Don't know why you people believe this is entirely in Amorim's hands when it obviously isn't.
 
Xtal said:
I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
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Unprovoked? Is this a joke?
 
Xtal said:
I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
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Watch some from this season.

He loses the ball then stands there, he walks when pressing, opposing players literally walk round him at times he hasn’t been bothered for years.

He hasn’t been bothered for ages now, he will never be the player he used to be for united ever again. he has no ambition to be a top player for Manchester United.
 
I'm a big fan of Rshford but he obviously is extremely lazy and was horrible for too long now. One good game every few weeks doesn't change that.

Amorim just sees what everyone of us sees, no work ethic at all. He can have all the talent in the world - if he doesn't work his socks off he will never make the next step. Cash in on him and close that chapter. Leaving England will do him well to I think,
 
He has let us down and looks like he is trying to force an exit by not applying himself in training, however I do wonder if it is whispers in his ear from his 'camp' that are part of this? Surround yourself with family and money chasers that stroke your ego rather than telling you to work hard for the fortune you earn and it gets in your head..
 
There will be plenty coming out from behind the scenes about this shower of players. Countless managers in and still the same issues. That tells me the players are the problem. Let the man do his job and trim this overpaid, overhyped squad. That is the only way back to where we need to be. If RA has droppped Rashford then I would suggest he has very very good reasons for doing so. Saying “he is better than what we have got” is not only short sighted but madness long term. These players need a reboot let the man give it to them. Judge him in a year!!
 
Classic example of a player getting better and better in the eyes of your average fan when he is not playing any football. Rashford wouldn’t have helped us any of the games we have lost during his absence
 
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