Manchester United view sidelining Marcus Rashford as key to cultural reboot

On an individual level I still don't think this was the wrong decision and it's on Rashford if he doesn't put the work in to change the manager's mind. He needed this ultimatum really or nothing would change.

On a team level though it doesn't make sense to pick on one player when nearly everyone is performing so poorly. Others might apply themselves a bit better in training but it's about the end result on the pitch.

Also we keep being told the players don't have time to train, so I'm a bit lost on what the decision to single out one person and leave them out in the cold, but not do anything with anyone else is based on.

We have players who repeatedly perform appallingly and seem to either give up or lose their head, and Amorim keeps picking them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Am I right in thinking Joshua goal machine Zirkzee would have similar stats if he had sat out all our difficult fixtures under Amorim in the same way that Rashford has?
Click to expand...
No, Marcus Rashford would still be the top scorer and the only one to have outscored the entire team in those 3 matches.

Infamous tough fixtures of Wolves & Bournemouth.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Classic example of a player getting better and better in the eyes of your average fan when he is not playing any football. Rashford wouldn’t have helped us any of the games we have lost during his absence
Click to expand...
Eh as much as I’m ready to see the back of him, I’d rather him shooting towards goal than the likes of Zirkzee, current Rasmus, Antony and Dalot.

I’m glad we’re moving on, but we desperately need a replacement of a much higher standard than what we’ve currently got.
 
Personally, think fans asking for him to
Be brought back are out of order. You have to make a stand. There are things you can’t compromise on or else you will never make long-term progress.
 
Xtal said:
I love this post. I had to go watch Rashford's clips and stats again to be sure I'm not overly protective of him. I'm not sure if it's Amorim handling Rashford on his own or the management is behind all these. Rashford is not the perfect player but the club hasn't given him the best opportunity to excel, however Rashford remains quality, top quality. Amorim is shooting himself in the foot with the unprovoked sidelining of Rashford, even Arteta gave Aubameyang a long rope to pull before finally axing him. I just hope we don't make the mistake of selling Rashford to an EPL rival, it would be committing harakiri, one worse than Van Persie leaving Arsenal to join us.
Click to expand...
You ruined your post completely with the last sentence.
 
Judas said:
Eh as much as I’m ready to see the back of him, I’d rather him shooting towards goal than the likes of Zirkzee, current Rasmus, Antony and Dalot.

I’m glad we’re moving on, but we desperately need a replacement of a much higher standard than what we’ve currently got.
Click to expand...
Zirkzee and Antony I feel haven't been that bad this season. Especially Antony.
 
Adisa said:
Personally, think fans asking for him to
Be brought back are out of order. You have to make a stand. There are things you can’t compromise on or else you will never make long-term progress.
Click to expand...
Indeed. No more half measures. Back Amorim to see things through fully and sort out these long standing issues permanently
 
VP89 said:
Zirkzee and Antony I feel haven't been that bad this season. Especially Antony.
Click to expand...
Antony has actually been alright since the managerial change, he’s clearly trying, but I’d still trust Rashford with a shooting opportunity over him, which was my main point.
 
Judas said:
Antony has actually been alright since the managerial change, he’s clearly trying, but I’d still trust Rashford with a shooting opportunity over him, which was my main point.
Click to expand...

Surely you remember watching Rashford play football over the last year and a bit? That is the player we’re talking about. The player in one of his most recent appearances had a clear chance to shoot at goal on his left foot and smashed it 20 yards high and wide of the goal. The guy who scored 7 goals in 33 league games last season. Why is everyone ignoring this and focusing on a hypothetical peak version of Rashford instead?

Don’t get me wrong. The new lads have been mainly shite too. But the idea is to back them and hope they develop into something better. Rashford has had chance after chance, season after season, to prove he’s a player worthy of starting every game and is at an age where he’s not going to suddenly improve. So do we keep persisting with the hopeless version of Rashford we’ve watched over the last season and a half? Or try something new?
 
Judas said:
Eh as much as I’m ready to see the back of him, I’d rather him shooting towards goal than the likes of Zirkzee, current Rasmus, Antony and Dalot.

I’m glad we’re moving on, but we desperately need a replacement of a much higher standard than what we’ve currently got.
Click to expand...
You’d rather have Rashford shoot towards the goal than one of the most clinical finishers in European football? And I don’t mean than argumentatively, there are hard cold stats that back that claim. Rasmus has other deficiencies in his game — quite a lot, sadly — but shooting isn’t one of them.
 
Judas said:
Antony has actually been alright since the managerial change, he’s clearly trying, but I’d still trust Rashford with a shooting opportunity over him, which was my main point.
Click to expand...
I guess but is that a reason to start him over them two?
 
noodlehair said:
On an individual level I still don't think this was the wrong decision and it's on Rashford if he doesn't put the work in to change the manager's mind. He needed this ultimatum really or nothing would change.

On a team level though it doesn't make sense to pick on one player when nearly everyone is performing so poorly. Others might apply themselves a bit better in training but it's about the end result on the pitch.

Also we keep being told the players don't have time to train, so I'm a bit lost on what the decision to single out one person and leave them out in the cold, but not do anything with anyone else is based on.

We have players who repeatedly perform appallingly and seem to either give up or lose their head, and Amorim keeps picking them.
Click to expand...
Something has definitely happened behind the scenes that none of us are privy to. It can't entirely be a footballing decision since (as you rightly point out) we are giving opportunities to players in worse form than Rashford.

In a way I am glad that whatever it is isn't playing out in the media and Rashford is dealing with it in a more matured way than Sancho. I am totally with the new manager. We need to ensure short term pain to finally gain in the long term. There aren't any short term solutions to the state that we are in and we need to make harsh decisions.

If Rashford isn't the right player for the long-term and the coach doesn't see the value in reintegrating despite those loses then I have to accept that decision. In the end, I am more on the side of Carragher when he says that we shouldn't really be talking so much about Rashford to being with. It's not like Salah has been benched. Let him figure out his career as he deems fit while we try to salvage what we have and build again.
 
Mindhunter said:
Something has definitely happened behind the scenes that none of us are privy to. It can't entirely be a footballing decision since (as you rightly point out) we are giving opportunities to players in worse form than Rashford.

In a way I am glad that whatever it is isn't playing out in the media and Rashford is dealing with it in a more matured way than Sancho. I am totally with the new manager. We need to ensure short term pain to finally gain in the long term. There aren't any short term solutions to the state that we are in and we need to make harsh decisions.

If Rashford isn't the right player for the long-term and the coach doesn't see the value in reintegrating despite those loses then I have to accept that decision. In the end, I am more on the side of Carragher when he says that we shouldn't really be talking so much about Rashford to being with. It's not like Salah has been benched. Let him figure out his career as he deems fit while we try to salvage what we have and build again.
Click to expand...

Two players were left out of the squad, the same two players were criticized then praised for their reactions, only one player decided to then do a full interview stating his intentions to leave the club. By all means, Rashford hasn’t gone full Sancho and called the manager a liar, but he’s hardly handled this in a mature way.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Two players were left out of the squad, the same two players were criticized then praised for their reactions, only one player decided to then do a full interview stating his intentions to leave the club. By all means, Rashford hasn’t gone full Sancho and called the manager a liar, but he’s hardly handled this in a mature way.
Click to expand...

Not only did the interview. He (allegedly) pulled a sickie at the very next training session.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Rashford has our most league goals under Amorim. A continuing record under every manager.

In 2 starts we won 1, drew 1. Since being dropped from starting XI, we have 1 win, 4 losses.

Funnily, Rashford has 3 goals in 219 mins. Since being dropped from the squad, the entire club has 2 goals in 270 mins.
Click to expand...

OK so given that how bad must his behaviour be for Amorim to drop him from the squad?
 
noodlehair said:
On an individual level I still don't think this was the wrong decision and it's on Rashford if he doesn't put the work in to change the manager's mind. He needed this ultimatum really or nothing would change.

On a team level though it doesn't make sense to pick on one player when nearly everyone is performing so poorly. Others might apply themselves a bit better in training but it's about the end result on the pitch.

Also we keep being told the players don't have time to train, so I'm a bit lost on what the decision to single out one person and leave them out in the cold, but not do anything with anyone else is based on.

We have players who repeatedly perform appallingly and seem to either give up or lose their head, and Amorim keeps picking them.
Click to expand...
I think the decision is quite clearly more than just performance.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not only did the interview. He (allegedly) pulled a sickie at the very next training session.
Click to expand...

Yup. At the end of the day, there’s nothing mature about his response. I can easily understand that both him and Garnacho were far from happy about being left out and criticized, neither should be. Rashfords decision to do the interview has forced our hand.
 
VP89 said:
I guess but is that a reason to start him over them two?
Click to expand...
No. However, it feels like he is one of the few players who has actually tried and, to some extent, succeeded in doing what the manger wants.
 
Guys on talk sport just now saying this is too complex a deal to get him out in January.

So is he just going to be sidelined for the entire season while we get pummelled with little other goal threat?
 
Ady87 said:
Guys on talk sport just now saying this is too complex a deal to get him out in January.

So is he just going to be sidelined for the entire season while we get pummelled with little other goal threat?
Click to expand...

Doubt it.
 
There’s no way back for him. Mitten is usually buddied up with all of our players past and present (as well as with people within the club who have regular interactions with those players). He is diplomatic at worst about them if you asked him to say negative things about players, so if he’s giving Rashford both barrels with zero sugarcoating, then it’s bad.
 
Chairman Steve said:
There’s no way back for him. Mitten is usually buddied up with all of our players past and present (as well as with people within the club who have regular interactions with those players). He is diplomatic at worst about them if you asked him to say negative things about players, so if he’s giving Rashford both barrels with zero sugarcoating, then it’s bad.
Click to expand...
Absolutely

Mitten loves the club and will never sensationalise things for an agenda. He’s said what he’s said in direct response to Talk Sport suggesting Amorim is having little say in what’s going on with Rashford currently. He didn’t set out to open up about it but has done so to show the issue with Rashford is longer spanning and many previous managers have voiced their concerns to him in the past.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not only did the interview. He (allegedly) pulled a sickie at the very next training session.
Click to expand...
Romano and Mail among others say he was sent home with a high temperature. Plenty of examples of his lack of professionalism at times though.
 
Ady87 said:
Guys on talk sport just now saying this is too complex a deal to get him out in January.

So is he just going to be sidelined for the entire season while we get pummelled with little other goal threat?
Click to expand...
Why so complex? We've had experience structuring deals where some of the player's wages are subsidised, if that's the suggestion. Lack of suitors seems a more realistic issue.
 
Jippy said:
Why so complex? We've had experience structuring deals where some of the player's wages are subsidised, if that's the suggestion. Lack of suitors seems a more realistic issue.
Click to expand...
Reunite Martial and Rashford at AEK
 
Andy Mitten confirming what I've said for ages and what many on here were blind to - player power absolutely a thing and Rashford being a bad egg (which was obvious when he got outside of the United bubble and even Gareth Southgate wouldn't play him).
 
LordSpud said:
Andy Mitten confirming what I've said for ages and what many on here were blind to - player power absolutely a thing and Rashford being a bad egg (which was obvious when he got outside of the United bubble and even Gareth Southgate wouldn't play him).
Click to expand...
I think trying to act like you saw things different over player power and Rashford’s attitude is quite a bold claim. It’s been obvious for a long time.
 
Mitten the club puppet, who has never said anything negative about a player in his life before, and suddenly he throws Rashford under the bus. It makes you wonder... It's obvious that Ratcliffe wants Rashford gone, and this is one of the tactics.
 
Rashford had disciplinary issues for ages. As much as i did not like ten Hag, there was a reason why the dutch put him aside too. And honestly, in "performance per wage" ratio he is proabbly the worst player in the league. That's it. No one should search for a deeper reason. Ratcliffe desperately wants to rationalise the club's budget at all costs, and there's no better way to do that than to remove underperforming, high-paid players.
 
Mickson said:
Mitten the club puppet, who has never said anything negative about a player in his life before, and suddenly he throws Rashford under the bus. It makes you wonder... It's obvious that Ratcliffe wants Rashford gone, and this is one of the tactics.
Click to expand...
Jesus where are all these trolls coming from?
 
Mickson said:
Mitten the club puppet, who has never said anything negative about a player in his life before, and suddenly he throws Rashford under the bus. It makes you wonder... It's obvious that Ratcliffe wants Rashford gone, and this is one of the tactics.
Click to expand...

Not true at all, but by all means, go on with your bullshit.
 
noodlehair said:
On an individual level I still don't think this was the wrong decision and it's on Rashford if he doesn't put the work in to change the manager's mind. He needed this ultimatum really or nothing would change.

On a team level though it doesn't make sense to pick on one player when nearly everyone is performing so poorly. Others might apply themselves a bit better in training but it's about the end result on the pitch.

Also we keep being told the players don't have time to train, so I'm a bit lost on what the decision to single out one person and leave them out in the cold, but not do anything with anyone else is based on.

We have players who repeatedly perform appallingly and seem to either give up or lose their head, and Amorim keeps picking them.
Click to expand...

Thing is though, Rashford is probably being paid far more than most of the others. This was a decision with a bigger picture no doubt, as to whether he even deserves to stay at the club, let alone play. And we have trouble moving players on, so drastic decisions likely had to be made once it was decided not to keep him. Basically forcing him out. It’s something that goes beyond the short term need, and I’m ask for it. It’s time we finally started taking action.

But from what we’ve read, the issues sound quite deep rooted and I don’t think it was even an option to keep him around. Maybe his influence has been one of the issues. And the club have backed him so long that they’ve probably empowered and even increased his influence.
 
Mickson said:
Mitten the club puppet, who has never said anything negative about a player in his life before, and suddenly he throws Rashford under the bus. It makes you wonder... It's obvious that Ratcliffe wants Rashford gone, and this is one of the tactics.
Click to expand...

Some of us have seen for many years that something isn’t right with him, even in his better seasons. Why would Ratcliffe want him gone? Why would anyone want him gone without very good reason? You should be backing it, every fan moans about our players but then moans when we do something about it. I think our fanbase just enjoys toxic misery.

We complain that we can’t get rid of high paid players, then complain when we force them out. It’s like banging your head against a wall reading the Caf these days.
 
pocco said:
Some of us have seen for many years that something isn’t right with him, even in his better seasons. Why would Ratcliffe want him gone? Why would anyone want him gone without very good reason? You should be backing it, every fan moans about our players but then moans when we do something about it. I think our fanbase just enjoys toxic misery.

We complain that we can’t get rid of high paid players, then complain when we force them out. It’s like banging your head against a wall reading the Caf these days.
Click to expand...

Isn't it obvious? He has a high salary and isn't really performing. Ratcliffe is counting every penny but you don't think he cares that Rashford is earning £300k a week? I was almost certain before that this is Ratcliffe all over but now that Mitten has come out, all of a sudden, he could've done this one year ago, three years ago, and said that all the managers have had problems with Rashford. OK!
 
LordSpud said:
Andy Mitten confirming what I've said for ages and what many on here were blind to - player power absolutely a thing and Rashford being a bad egg (which was obvious when he got outside of the United bubble and even Gareth Southgate wouldn't play him).
Click to expand...
Convenient this is all coming out now when we wish to sell the player and could benefit from excuses to keep him out of the team. Not a mention of any former manager concerns with Rashford before this (the opposite in fact, generally been repeatedly emphasised as being professional).

Just to clarify, not against selling Rashford given his inflated wage, but this is clearly propaganda being briefed by the club, just as Ashworth was suddenly the cause of every bad decision at the club once he was sacked.
 
Dazzmondo said:
Convenient this is all coming out now when we wish to sell the player and could benefit from excuses to keep him out of the team. Not a mention of any former manager concerns with Rashford before this (the opposite in fact, generally been repeatedly emphasised as being professional).
Click to expand...

It’s not exactly a surprise though, is it? When a footballer gets exposed, publicly, for poor discipline as often as Rashford has been in the last few years then it’s fairly obvious that’s only the tip of the iceberg.
 
Mickson said:
Mitten the club puppet, who has never said anything negative about a player in his life before, and suddenly he throws Rashford under the bus. It makes you wonder... It's obvious that Ratcliffe wants Rashford gone, and this is one of the tactics.
Click to expand...

Ah yes. A famously stingy business man comes up with a cunning plan to use a journalist to devalue one of the most expensive assets at his football club. You must be onto something here!

The notion that it’s in the interest of anyone at the club to deliberately spread false rumours about Rashford being a long term indisciplined waster is so fecking dumb.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.