Manchester United view sidelining Marcus Rashford as key to cultural reboot

Woodywizz said:
Incredible that the race card has been played, that’s so poor.

Rashford gets criticised not because he is black but because he has been utterly shit on the pitch week in and week out for the last 2 years and he’s compounded this with a sullen entitled attitude whilst picking up the biggest wage of any player in the club.
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I’m not doubting that Marcus and other black players both at United and elsewhere across football’s top leagues have suffered racist abuse. It’s unfortunately inevitable on social media where people have the ability to hide behind an avi and fake name.

I think the treatment of Maguire undermines the argument of Rashford being targeted purely because of racism though. Maguire struggled at United in his first few seasons, and there’s no doubt he didn’t help some of it by cupping his ears against the likes of San Marino or whoever it was and making the odd comment to journalists, but I always felt with Maguire that what you were seeing on the pitch was him trying his best. For me Maguire’s biggest problem was a confidence issue, not a lack of ability or even worse, a lack of effort.

For Rashford I think the main reason he invoked such a poor response from fans is we’ve seen how good he can be, we saw how good he was when Van Gaal introduced him at 16/17. We saw his true potential under Ten Hag in his first season but it’s just felt like every time he’s had a good spell of form, he feels it’s bought him time to just coast and do the bare minimum.
 
alexthelion said:
If his performances have been shit as you say, why would you even consider keeping him?
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Well because performances can get better. We know he can be devastating when he's on his game, it's just that that has been way to infrequent. It's like he's some youth player like e.g. Paddy McNair who's never going to be good enough. He could be. I do understand why it's all happening, I just wish we could find a way to make him consistent because he's provided some amazing moments.
 
Escobar said:
The fact that Rashford cannot even be bothered once a new manager comes in shows there is a deep rooted fundamental issue with him. There is no hope here imo and the club sold good players for less problematic issues. He really needs to be sold as nothing is at an acceptable level: performance, training, attitude, work rate
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Hopefully Sancho's move to Chelsea just inspired Rashford that there could be a better pond out there; waiting for him to swim and pissed freely.
 
Jonnymufc said:
Well because performances can get better. We know he can be devastating when he's on his game, it's just that that has been way to infrequent. It's like he's some youth player like e.g. Paddy McNair who's never going to be good enough. He could be. I do understand why it's all happening, I just wish we could find a way to make him consistent because he's provided some amazing moments.
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He's been in the first team squad for nearly 9 years, I think he's had enough time to show if he can be consistent here and he's shown he can't be.

He's always been a hot and cold streaky player, the big problem is the hot streaks have become rarer and rarer. Over the last 4 seasons you're basically looking at a 2 or 3 month period after the last WC where he was on fire. Other than that he's been poor.
 
Also, if his best interests were for the team, then he wouldn’t even be speaking out at all at the moment. The focus should be on how we can build momentum following the City win, instead everyone will now primarily be talking about Rashford. If he cared for United he’s just done something entirely selfish. Good riddance if you ask me. Too many red flags with him overall now.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
He's been in the first team squad for nearly 9 years, I think he's had enough time to show if he can be consistent here and he's shown he can't be.

He's always been a hot and cold streaky player, the big problem is the hot streaks have become rarer and rarer. Over the last 4 seasons you're basically looking at a 2 or 3 month period after the last WC where he was on fire. Other than that he's been poor.
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Yeah, I'm not arguing that. I just wish it wasn't so given how he's grown up at the club. When you've seen someone like that hit those highs (even if rarely) then you want it to work out. It's just a sad state of affairs but I absolutely accept the main issue is his own lack of application.
 
AltiUn said:
I can see a very odd eventuality that we sell Garnacho, not because he isn't a great talent but because he is and he's like to bring in a huge offer which would give us insane wiggle room with PSR. Not saying I think it's likely or that I even agree with it but I don't think the chance is 0.

I can't see any way we sell Mainoo, we're gonna need someone to be the face of United with Rashford's impending transfer.
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Amad, Rasmus and Mainoo.
 
Jonnymufc said:
Yeah, I'm not arguing that. I just wish it wasn't so given how he's grown up at the club. When you've seen someone like that hit those highs (even if rarely) then you want it to work out. It's just a sad state of affairs but I absolutely accept the main issue is his own lack of application.
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It's a sad situation all round yeah I agree.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I suppose the big difference with Maguire and Rashford is that when Maguire was going through his worst period and at rock bottom you could still never question his effort.

Regardless of what you thought of Maguires ability you could never question how hard he was trying.

Rashfords issue isn't just his actual form but his effort levels. At this point he seems incapable of giving 100% consistently, you get it sometimes for a few games but then he quickly drops off again.
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Spot on.

Also Maguire wasn't calling Rashford a ‘knobhead’ on live TV at Selhurst Park
 
With Rashford we spoilt him too early and gave him too much money off the back of his purple patch. He runs off emotion, need contract puts in effort, missed out on world cup/euro squad will put in effort. Once that short term emotion gets drained, he tails off.

He lacks the drive and determination of a proper United player or more recently, Amad, who in fairness was treated badly by Ten Hag and to an extent, Ole. Stayed determined and driven until he got recognised.

Technically him and Gernacho are not at the level required in the No 10 position.

In Rashford's case as soon as he got dropped, after a huge win, spits his dummy out and does an interview 1 day before our European presser, rather than being determined to get his spot back he is saying along the lines of 'leaving on his own terms'. Says it all.
 
Its best to way part ways
Obviously its not working for him

A change of scenery is what he needs maybe.
 
Jonnymufc said:
I don't care that I seem to be in the minority but I'm really unhappy about this. I was at Rashford's debut against Midtjylland, will never forget being like "who?" when his name was read out. I love the guy, he's a United man and always will be. Sentimental nonsense? Yeah, sure.

His performances have been shit, I'm not disputing that, but I really wish it wasn't ending like this.
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Nobody wanted it to end like this but his ‘performances’ have led to this. No player is bigger than the club. We need to start living by that mantra again, it seems we lost it along the way
 
golden_blunder said:
Nobody wanted it to end like this but his ‘performances’ have led to this. No player is bigger than the club. We need to start living by that mantra again, it seems we lost it along the way
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Agree, our standards have dropped so low, that Mazraoui has almost shamed our whole squad up, whereas in the past a player his level would be par for the course. Rashford does need to go for his own sake too.
 
Suv666 said:
Its best to way part ways
Obviously its not working for him

A change of scenery is what he needs maybe.
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Mainly in the people he hangs around with. Somehow he seems to be being advised that he's doing nothing wrong and he would be better off somewhere else.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Similar story story as with Lukaku, Lingard, Pogba, McTominay, Fred, Martial, etc.

End of the day, scapegoating and selling these players has done little for our actual progress. In fact, we have gone backwards since some of the players I mentioned.

All that really matters is if we can get it together on the pitch, and if Amorim can actually deliver. Focusing on an individual player and trying to hound them out has not, and will not help us.

It's funny though how it's the exact same-ish pattern every time, with massive vitriol and then huge relief when the player finally goes... only for us to still be average.

Fingers crossed though. Maybe this time it'll be different and getting rid of Rashford actually takes us where we need to go.
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It's a bit of a strange post, in that none of those players should have stayed any longer, many should have left sooner and would have been sold on by many other clubs a lot quicker. There's no real parallel to be drawn. Players don't work out and leave clubs for all sorts of reasons.

Moving on an individual player, in and of itself, isn't going to bring success and I'm not sure why you'd expect it to.
 
Our fans will put up with a lot of negatives with a player as long as its clear they are trying their best.
Look at the Weghorst situation, he didn't come in for nearly as much stick as he probably should have done as you could see it mattered for him and he gave 100%, he just wasn't good enough.
Similar with McTominay, although he did get quite a bit more abuse than Wout.
What can never and should never be accepted is a lack of effort on the pitch. In recent memory, that would include Sancho and Rashford. Its beyond infuriating to see a player give up on a chase back, let someone walk around them with the ball, not make runs in behind, as if that basic effort and endeavour is somehow beneath them and someone else can pressure the player they should be hassling. I'm one who doesn't particularly rate Bruno, but you could never question his mentality and the same with Maguire.
When you combine what we can all see on the pitch with stories about going clubbing when you should be training and staying up all night playing xbox then that is when the anger starts coming out and I can't blame anyone for that really. It shows a lack of respect to their teammates, the club and the fans.
Its a shame it has come to this, but its time for Rashford to go and I don't think many will miss him at this point. Could have all been so different........
 
Think we will probably get another PR war today. At least some follow up info on Marcus Rashford's side.
 
gaffs said:
And the majority of those goals came before City's slump.

Read the post....

"Look at Haarland for example. City are playing like crap and all of a sudden Haarland can't score and looks very average."

What had Haarland done since City have been wobbling? 3 goals in 10 Premier league games.

The point is, even the best players can look like crap when the team isn't functioning. So why expect Rashford to shine when United have been disfunctional the majority of the time that he has been in the first team?
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3 premier league goals and 4 champions league goals in 3 games. People don't get to cite Rashford's vaunted 30 goal season where 12 goals came in the Europa league and league cup then ignore champions league performances by other players.

Haaland has scored 60 goals in as many games for Dortmund before arriving in the premier league and once he arrived has scored 36 and 27 goals in his two full seasons respectively and is on course to easily break 20+ goals again this season.

The best attacking players do not perform to the level of Rashford when they're in a poor team, Raahford is statistically one of the worst wingers in the premier league for over a year now. Here's a comparison of Rashford vs ONLY wingers that play in much worse teams than him or the same team:

Rashford vs Cunha : https://postimg.cc/KKTj1vQn
Rashford vs Bowen: https://i.postimg.cc/Ss1f8ZdR/Bowen-vs-Rashford.png
Rashford vs Amad: https://i.postimg.cc/qR2jfcxv/Amad-vs-Rashford.png

If the performances are down to the team then why does Cunha playing for relegation zone Wolves vastly outperform Rashford? Or Bowen at West Ham? Or Amad playing in the exact same team?
 
The Purley King said:
Our fans will put up with a lot of negatives with a player as long as its clear they are trying their best.
Look at the Weghorst situation, he didn't come in for nearly as much stick as he probably should have done as you could see it mattered for him and he gave 100%, he just wasn't good enough.
Similar with McTominay, although he did get quite a bit more abuse than Wout.
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Exactly. Put in the effort and people might criticise your performances and say you aren't good enough but they will always support you fundamentally because they know you are trying. I know a lot of United fans who think McTominay was never good enough for us. I don't know any of them that don't like him or didn't wish him all the best when he left.

Thats literally the only thing fans really expect of players. Put in some effort. We don't expect you to be at 100% at all times but come on, put at least some effort in. It made it all the more evident that Rashford truly didn't give a crap when he would occasionally put in some work for a game or two after once of his "incidents" or one of his PR statements came out. Then, back to normal. Walking around. Disinterested.

The mistake people make is to think the fans caused the issue. The fans supported his malaise for far far too long and the club let him stroll through the seasons. He got abuse because he wasn't trying, he didn't stop trying because he got abuse.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
The bolded is where we differ then and I'll just leave it at that. Because I don't think Garnacho has the same potential that you do at all.
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This argument makes no sense though as if that's the case we wouldn't get a big fee for him anyway, and he's not on massive wages either, so it'd be completely pointless. Unless you think you know better than the entire rest of the footballing world and professional scouts who help evaluate a player's potential/value?

I also always find these "lets sell x then we can buy loads of good players" ridiculous, because its just not how it works is it? Clubs sell players because they either aren't good enough or want to leave. Not just so they can buy other players and hope they aren't worse. That's what teams about to go into administration do.
 
I cannot wait for him to go, I don't care if he turns in to R9 at another club, I just want him and his negative, I'm a victim BS out of the club.

Amad has utterly shown him up.
 
Woodywizz said:
Incredible that the race card has been played, that’s so poor.

Rashford gets criticised not because he is black but because he has been utterly shit on the pitch week in and week out for the last 2 years and he’s compounded this with a sullen entitled attitude whilst picking up the biggest wage of any player in the club.
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TBF the term “race card” in and of itself has negative connotations because of the people who usually use it. It’s usually used to undermine genuine cases of racism when no actual racist words have been said. But people know what’s going on.

Anyways. Regarding Rashford. 100% it’s nothing to do with race. But 100% for a minority his race will now come into it.
 
The culture side of this is the biggest part for me.

His application and attitude have stunk for a long time. He is a terrible example for the younger players at the club and he isn’t anywhere near the ability his salary would suggest.

Nothing more than that, but as a leader in the dressing room, he has failed, and that needs to be addressed and dealt with.

I don’t really mind how well he does for another club, he just can’t be permitted to be a cloud at this one any longer. No hard feelings, clean break.
 
golden_blunder said:
Nobody wanted it to end like this but his ‘performances’ have led to this. No player is bigger than the club. We need to start living by that mantra again, it seems we lost it along the way
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Well said.

Ben Thornley was always hailed as one of the most talented players in that era but fate sadly intervened. Rossi was going to be a star…

Adnan seemed like a legend in the making especially when he let it be known that he had taken his date to Nandos.

Kiko scored a wonder goal and it felt great that Utd might have an old fashioned centre forward and an Italian one to boot. Alas it was not to be.

Marcus has delivered moments of brilliance, his link up play with martial was a joy to watch and he was great during the 1st 6 months of ETH but since the League Cup Final his form has gone.
 
We just won Manchester City away and yet no one barely noticed because the focus had shifted almost immediately on Rashford. The guy first doesn't apply himself on the pitch/training he's dropped because of it and instead of working hard to redeem himself he goes in a PR frenzy were he told everyone what a good person he is and that its time for him to seek a new challenge. He couldn't be arsed telling that to the club first!
 
Jonnymufc said:
Well because performances can get better. We know he can be devastating when he's on his game, it's just that that has been way to infrequent. It's like he's some youth player like e.g. Paddy McNair who's never going to be good enough. He could be. I do understand why it's all happening, I just wish we could find a way to make him consistent because he's provided some amazing moments.
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I think there comes a point though where a player can't just switch it back on.

I read a lot about a new challenge sparking him back to the player he was. Amorims arrival might or a new club.

But I really think there's a line and they can't get back from there. When it's been literally years I don't think it's just a matter of deciding to be good again.

For Rashford I don't think it's possible. Just physically he isn't the same guy. Never mind everything else.
 
devilish said:
We just won Manchester City away and yet no one barely noticed because the focus had shifted almost immediately on Rashford. The guy first doesn't apply himself on the pitch/training he's dropped because of it and instead of working hard to redeem himself he goes in a PR frenzy were he told everyone what a good person he is and that its time for him to seek a new challenge. He couldn't be arsed telling that to the club first!
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You guys shifted it though right? You all flocked to his threads even though he didn't play and multiple threads have been on the front page since then..... ya'll never take any responsibility
 
A cultural reboot would be banning the players from unsolicited media activity.
 
Jonnymufc said:
Well because performances can get better. We know he can be devastating when he's on his game, it's just that that has been way to infrequent. It's like he's some youth player like e.g. Paddy McNair who's never going to be good enough. He could be. I do understand why it's all happening, I just wish we could find a way to make him consistent because he's provided some amazing moments.
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He's never been 'devastating'.

Even during the couple of spells where he's scored a few goals in his career, his overall performances have still been very suspect.

He's the sort of player who usually gets stuck at lower PL / midtable clubs. Capable of the odd moment of magic and / or hot streak, but inconsistent, fundamentally flawed and better suited to counter-attacking football.
 
devilish said:
We just won Manchester City away and yet no one barely noticed because the focus had shifted almost immediately on Rashford. The guy first doesn't apply himself on the pitch/training he's dropped because of it and instead of working hard to redeem himself he goes in a PR frenzy were he told everyone what a good person he is and that its time for him to seek a new challenge. He couldn't be arsed telling that to the club first!
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To be fair I’m sure the club told him he could leave if a good offer came in before he ever went to the press. I assume him being dropped for the city game was also after him being told he can leave. I don’t expect him to start for us again now unless he’s still here at the end of the Jan transfer window.

Edit. I just saw Amorim come out and say he wants Rashford to stay and fight for his place? This could still be brinkmanship to try and get him to knuckle down and do what the manager wants him to do but it seems like Rashford genuinely wants out. Who knows at this point
 
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afrocentricity said:
You guys shifted it though right? You all flocked to his threads even though he didn't play and multiple threads have been on the front page since then..... ya'll never take any responsibility
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On of our most paid players had been dropped in one of the most important games of the season because he can't be arsed about doing his job. He then goes out in a PR overdrive where he tells everyone (apart from the club) that he wants a new challenge. How exactly its our fault for talking about it?
 
Ali Dia said:
To be fair I’m sure the club told him he could leave if a good offer came in before he ever went to the press. I assume him being dropped for the city game was also after him being told he can leave. I don’t expect him to start for us again now unless he’s still here at the end of the Jan transfer window.
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Amorim has came out saying that he wants Rashford to stay and that him not playing was not a disciplinary measure. He even said that he hasn't spoke to Rashford yesterday as well. So no I doubt that the club had pushed him out.
 
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