Manchester United view sidelining Marcus Rashford as key to cultural reboot

[United Hobbit]

As Mike once said, no half measures.

We've been half arsing rebuilds and resets for years. It's been a disaster. Let's do it properly, and let's be ruthless about it. Get rid of as many of the overpaid layabouts and sicknotes as we can. We're not a charity and we're not a retirement home

Cry for the staff losing their jobs and the fans getting priced out of the stadium. Not the bloke on 350k a week.

Exactly to both of these. It's time to start showing some ruthlessness. Sick of seeing him stroll About the pitch not looking like he gives a stuff, same for any player with this attitude. A fresh start would be best for all parties at this point. Saving on his wages would be nice as well. I'd far rather see him gone than Garnacho who I feel still has a future here, provided someone puts a rocket up him about his attitude and he actually takes note

It almost feels like Rashy has fallen out of love with football, perhaps he has more interest in the charity work he did over lockdown and wants to progress that. But in that case retire, I'd have full respect for him if he did, but don't keep sulking about the pitch when those supporters have spent their hard earned money to watch you

 

[Captmfla]

Just curious, what do people mean when they say Rashford seems like a good guy? Is it just the charity stuff?

He hasn't had any major off-field scandals, which is a good start. But having (at least somewhat) poor effort and attitude doesn't scream "great guy" to me. He comes off somewhat poorly in my opinion given his position, although it's nothing too serious.

It's not fair to say Rashford put in less effort than others unless there are evidences proving so.

Overall, Rashford still have more goals and assists than most forwards in united this season.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

What a load of bollocks. Without Rashford we actually have 11 players on the pitch and performances have improved.

Let's see if we finish where we should without rashford, a few points off top four

 

[andy0]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4gpj9drn0do

BBC partly quotes the Henry Winter piece, and has Simon Stone with some other comment from sources close to or friends

It is being suggested to me by sources close to Rashford that he is in an emotional frame of mind as far as his Manchester United career is concerned, that he has no desire to leave Old Trafford and in an ideal world would return to Ruben Amorim's starting line-up, stay there and move on.

However, Rashford is a realist.

He watched Sunday's victory at Manchester City in front of a TV at home.

Amorim might have massaged the situation by saying this was a new week, but Rashford and the people closest to him have been around long enough to know new bosses can make a big impact by leaving out a big name. And the big name tends to be someone who is not pivotal to their plans.

A January move is not straightforward. Paris St-Germain are the club most linked with Rashford. They are also the club to distance themselves from a transfer the most often.

Aside from Casemiro, Rashford is United's highest earner. Not many clubs in the world could match his wages.

At 27 and theoretically in the prime stage of his career, Rashford might be someone of major interest to the Saudi Pro League - but would that appeal to Rashford? Some who know the player suggest not.

Rashford has witnessed a shining example of someone who has turned a bleak situation around. Erik ten Hag didn't want Harry Maguire. Had Maguire been ambivalent about his situation he would be long gone by now.

But Maguire stuck it out, won his place back and ended up lasting longer than Ten Hag.

Rashford has the ability to turn this situation around - but his words suggest very strongly that is not his current mindset.

He is ready for a new challenge but the secondary part remains. Where?


That encapsulates it. Will he come back in like Maguire, or just shrug?

I'm working my way down the reader comments below. Not many expressing undying support for the player

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Hillarious you think the criticism of Rashford and the idea of getting rid is just a recent bandwagon thing. He’s been widely criticised on here for years, the only difference now is we (finally) have a manager who seemingly also agrees and a media who is now picking it up as a result.

He's been criticized but you can't tell me there hasn't been a spike in media articles? 5/6 a day is normal ? And he has become by far the most criticized player over others since the other scapegoats left the team. Ten hag was the focus of articles until he left, now rashford. Who will it be after he leaves if he leaves?

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Not sure why you feel this way but I don’t agree at all. It seems for once that the new structure people wanted for years and wanted to see Ten Hag under are actually doing something meaningful in regards to one voice from the top down to the manager.

Reports today suggest Wilcox was also involved in the decision to drop Rashford and Garnacho, instead of the usual thing everyone on here complains about where the new incoming manager gives everyone a clean slate until they stop trying for him.

There’s nowhere to hide anymore, players aren’t going to survive managerial sackings. Call that toxic if you want, I call it great news and accountability from all involved. In previous years Rashford would have played just well enough for the new manager to rely on him and the cycle repeats again, that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.

And seriously, who gives a shit about ‘leaks’? So what, someone told someone about the lineup? Hardly helped City did it? Did anyone stop to think that Rashford driving home from training, pulling into his drive and getting out of his car an hour before kick off could have been the leak? It doesn’t always have to be toxic, if he stops for a pint of milk 20 minutes before kickoff it’s pretty obvious he isn’t in the squad.

Absolutely terrifying if Wilcox was involved in team selection. Genuinely worse than anything that has come before. Please please tell me you read that from some rubbish source.

 

[AndySmith1990]

He's been criticized but you can't tell me there hasn't been a spike in media articles? 5/6 a day is normal ? And he has become by far the most criticized player over others since the other scapegoats left the team. Ten hag was the focus of articles until he left, now rashford. Who will it be after he leaves if he leaves?

Stop referring to players as scapegoats, it renders everything you say as meaningless

 

[arthurka]

Something tells me it's not up to Rashford anymore. He has been told to go find a new club.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why has the scapegoating stepped up to new levels under amorim?

The club has been so toxic since INEOS and it is getting worse and worse. At least with ETH it was professional, no leaks no press brief drama. He wasn't a good enough manager but could we not keep hold of that element going forwards?

I think you’re misremembering. There was relentless press leak drama. From the Greenwood SNAFU, to the Sancho mess, to all the usual dressing room leaks that accompany a failing manager.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Stop referring to players as scapegoats, it renders everything you say as meaningless

Why

 

[alexthelion]

I don't care that I seem to be in the minority but I'm really unhappy about this. I was at Rashford's debut against Midtjylland, will never forget being like "who?" when his name was read out. I love the guy, he's a United man and always will be. Sentimental nonsense? Yeah, sure.

His performances have been shit, I'm not disputing that, but I really wish it wasn't ending like this.

If his performances have been shit as you say, why would you even consider keeping him?

 

[alexthelion]

“just the charity stuff”. That isn’t enough?

Is that enough to offset his on-pitch laziness or off-pitch antics such as his Belfast piss up/late for training episode?

IMO, no it isn't.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Marcus Rashford, the cultural robot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is that enough to offset his on-pitch laziness or off-pitch antics such as his Belfast piss up/late for training episode?

IMO, no it isn't.

It’s enough to be confident he’s a good guy. Which has feck all to with all the other stuff you clearly enjoy ripping into him for.

 

[alexthelion]

Let's see if we finish where we should without rashford, a few points off top four

Are you saying we'd finish there with Rashford?

 

[lex talionis]

I’d agree that Rashford has lost the top end pace that made him so explosive when he was younger and that it almost became his signature attribute but i do feel there is more to his game than just pace. I think he is an instinctive player and when things go wrong he looks to things that have served him in the past. When they don’t work he loses confidence further. We have seen him perform against top teams before and I’m sure he has a pretty good record against the top 6.

His game isn’t about work in tight spaces but I’ve seen him play neat one twos and also spread the play as he did well when we beat City last season. He has the capacity but can get very sloppy, but this is a team trait at the minute.

As I’ve said if he does go it is what it is but id still find issue in the fact we couldn’t develop a talented young player who grew and I believe tried hard for this club. The anger and hate some exhibit for him I just find sad.

The hate is over the top, although it's not hard to see why the hate is there. Marcus grew up in extremely humble circumstances and now carries himself like a prima donna off the pitch and like someone who doesn't care on the pitch.

But if he produced the end product, Marcus Rashford can carry on like a pre-Madonna for all I care. But the end product has evaporated and it's not just a run of poor form. When Forlan was missing chances on goal at least he ran his socks off. When Rooney would go cold, you knew he would get hot again. Both gave it everything they had, even on days when they had nothing. Rashford just gives up too easily and it's weird to watch. But above all he never bothered to learn a new skill, a new trick or anything to advance his game beyond what it was when he was 20 years old.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Just curious, what do people mean when they say Rashford seems like a good guy? Is it just the charity stuff?

He hasn't had any major off-field scandals, which is a good start. But having (at least somewhat) poor effort and attitude doesn't scream "great guy" to me. He comes off somewhat poorly in my opinion given his position, although it's nothing too serious.

Hard for us to relate, pressure of United must be horrendous when things aren’t going well and he can’t live a normal life even when it is. People like us will say ‘well I’d love that life for the money he’s paid’ but it doesn’t stop the constant abuse and likely lonely existence. The fact he’s been doing positive things outside of football, has never done anything at all that’s ‘bad’ points to a solid character, as does everything we know about him. United has broken him, you can see it in how he plays, how he hides under the pressure but it doesn’t reflect poorly on him as a person. Sure, you can argue it shows he does not have the mental grit of Keane or Stam etc. but why would that reflect poorly on him as a person in general?

 

[alexthelion]

Absolutely terrifying if Wilcox was involved in team selection. Genuinely worse than anything that has come before. Please please tell me you read that from some rubbish source.

Peraps there is more to the situation than is being admitted, perhaps somesport of disciplinary which would entail Wilcox being involved?

 

[alexthelion]

It’s enough to be confident he’s a good guy. Which has feck all to with all the other stuff you clearly enjoy ripping into him for.

Why is it enough? He's obviously not such a "good guy" as you're trying to make him out to be.

No, I don't like ripping into him as you put it, but he certainly deserves it for his woeful attitude he's shown on the pitch.

 

[noodlehair]

Mainoo would be dumb to sell, considering the weaknesses in his game can be improved and built around.

Garnacho I think might be a shrewder move if another club is willing to pay a Julian Alvarez level fee for him.

I certainly don't think it's "too early to know" with young players who have had 2-3 years of consistent minutes at the top level. Part of running a club well is identifying players who will and won't make it beforehand and capitilizing on it instead of just "waiting and seeing" and then when a player flops you get very little benefit from it. Garnacho is someone who has serious weaknesses to his game that I'm not sure will suddenly fix themselves, and there's a real possibility the hype/reputation is above what his true potential probably is.

It is definitely too early to tell as has been evidenced time and again in the past. Salah was older than Garnacho when Chelsea sold him. Ronaldo was a "one trick pony" who was mocked constantly by rival fans and pundits when he was 20, and went through sustained spells of being frustratingly crap.

It's an absolutely ridiculous thing to claim. Garnacho has had a poor run of form and been dropped for 1 game. He's 20 years old and has no right to even be playing at the level he is. He's also an age where inconsistency and emotional petulance comes as standard.

Unless he instigates it, selling him would be insanely stupid. It won't raise enough money to build a team it will raise money to try and get a replacement who we might not get and even if we do probably won't have nearly the same potential.

Rashford is 27, has performed poorly for ages, drives around everywhere in a solid gold car, doesn't seem to treat bettering himself as a footballer as any kind of priority, hides behind a pr machine instead of knuckling down, and is on massive wages. I don't get how Garnacho or Mainoo manage to make their way into a discussion about the club considering selling him. There is no comparison at all.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Hard for us to relate, pressure of United must be horrendous when things aren’t going well and he can’t live a normal life even when it is. People like us will say ‘well I’d love that life for the money he’s paid’ but it doesn’t stop the constant abuse and likely lonely existence. The fact he’s been doing positive things outside of football, has never done anything at all that’s ‘bad’ points to a solid character, as does everything we know about him. United has broken him, you can see it in how he plays, how he hides under the pressure but it doesn’t reflect poorly on him as a person. Sure, you can argue it shows he does not have the mental grit of Keane or Stam etc. but why would that reflect poorly on him as a person in general?

Lack of work ethic ,arrogance, and laziness reflects poorly on any person's character. You can make excuses for him if you like, but we can only judge on what we see, and that's what we've been seeing on the pitch for a long time

 

[van Nistelrooy]

Dropped from the squad for the Manchester derby.

Within a couple of days, he's handing out presents to school children with one of the most reputable sports journalists coincidentally present. Before you know it, this arranged PR takes all the focus away from a fantastic derby victory, to all about poor Marcus Rashford again. There's even a line in the article about being shown online 'abuse'. Heaven forbid, don't forget the sympathetic line about abuse.

This feels like Rashford's holding babies for the camera moment.

 

[stevoc]

To balance the books.

Who else do we have than can generate a profit for us?
Which player could we sell today for decent money, that we wouldn't be taking a loss on? Maybe Mazraoui. And where does that get us?

The benefit of these player sales is that the money goes onto the balance sheet for this year. You can bring in another player and his costs are amortized over the length of his contract.

So sell our two most promising young players, to enable us to sign some promising young players?

I think they mean out as in injured.

Apparently not.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I suppose the big difference with Maguire and Rashford is that when Maguire was going through his worst period and at rock bottom you could still never question his effort.

Regardless of what you thought of Maguires ability you could never question how hard he was trying.

Rashfords issue isn't just his actual form but his effort levels. At this point he seems incapable of giving 100% consistently, you get it sometimes for a few games but then he quickly drops off again.

 

[jeff gurr]

Lack of work ethic ,arrogance, and laziness reflects poorly on any person's character. You can make excuses for him if you like, but we can only judge on what we see, and that's what we've been seeing on the pitch for a long time

These are personality traits that very rarely get turned around. Very few clubs around the world are prepared to accept those traits.

 

[noodlehair]

“just the charity stuff”. That isn’t enough?

Fairly obvious at this point that was his PR people though tbf.

Driving round in a solid gold Rolls Royce covered head to toe in bling doesn't exactly scream Man of the People to me

Not that I know if he's a nice guy or not. He could be, but I'm past it being any kind of defence for his crappy performances or the ridiculous predictability of the Henry Winter headed PR machine...which is a big part of why he never has to react positively to criticism.

 

[JustinC00]

For me he's basically Sancho with slightly better work ethic and good PR instructing him. Like you won't get him being sent off for months away from the squad and he isn't gonna have a go at the manager on social media because he got dropped. He'll just go hand out presents to children and have a journo tag along where he drops quotes 2 days after a great derby win which he was dropped for to make it about himself and how he's ready for a new club. But where the great PR comes in for him was him celebrating on the win on social media. So when you say he's taking away from the win with stuff like this his fan club says "what are you on, he celebrated Amad's goal"

 

[Kayla40TS]

Lack of work ethic ,arrogance, and laziness reflects poorly on any person's character. You can make excuses for him if you like, but we can only judge on what we see, and that's what we've been seeing on the pitch for a long time

Giggs seemed pretty hard working, down to earth, and hard working (not sure why you said work ethic and laziness as though they are two separate ideas unless you were just super desperate to pad out your list to three things instead of two) and look at what we learned about his character.

 

[GiddyUp]

It’s enough to be confident he’s a good guy. Which has feck all to with all the other stuff you clearly enjoy ripping into him for.

Good guys finish last unfortunately. Always annoyed me that, even more so against slow Ipswich defenders.

 

[Kayla40TS]

Driving round in a solid gold Rolls Royce covered head to toe in bling doesn't exactly scream Man of the People to me

Why does it have to be man of the people or horrific c*nt? Maybe he's a decent lad who grew up poor and likes to be a little flash and the clothes he wears and cars he drives have absolutely nothing to do with the content of his character?

To be honest, this seems awfully similar to criticisms of other non-white players over the years but I never read comments about what kinds of cars nor what style of clothing white players have/wear. I am not saying this is racism, nor accusing anyone of racism, but it's pretty clear there's bias showing through that we should all examine.

 

[0le]

“just the charity stuff”. That isn’t enough?

Fairly obvious at this point that was his PR people though tbf.

Driving round in a solid gold Rolls Royce covered head to toe in bling doesn't exactly scream Man of the People to me

Not that I know if he's a nice guy or not. He could be, but I'm past it being any kind of defence for his crappy performances or the ridiculous predictability of the Henry Winter headed PR machine...which is a big part of why he never has to react positively to criticism.

Doing some charity work, by proxy or otherwise does at least indicate intent. Sadly some people do not even have that. I've met individuals at my own company that do not even want to use paid-for volunteering days (including paid for travel/lunch) where everything is set up by an event organiser in the company beforehand.

As you've said there noodle, we will never really know. To me I think he seems alright. Maybe he doesn't take well to criticism but no one is perfect. Everyone is flawed to some extent and I think it is certainly fair to say there are worst people out there - far worse - than Rashford.

I feel a little saddened by the news. I wanted him to be great here and it hasn't worked out.

 

[noodlehair]

Why does it have to be man of the people or horrific c*nt? Maybe he's a decent lad who grew up poor and likes to be a little flash and the clothes he wears and cars he drives have absolutely nothing to do with the content of his character?

To be honest, this seems awfully similar to criticisms of other non-white players over the years but I never read comments about what kinds of cars nor what style of clothing white players have/wear. I am not saying this is racism, nor accusing anyone of racism, but it's pretty clear there's bias showing through that we should all examine.

Nice to see you've deliberately ignored the second part of my post to take what I've said out of context and casually accuse me of being racist based on absolutely nothing at all.

F*ck off

 

[JB7]

“just the charity stuff”. That isn’t enough?

Can't believe Rashford ignored that dog in the Thames and made the Radio 1 guy jump in instead. Terrible person.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Almost beyond parody that, regular as clockwork, within 2 days of being dropped we can add another one to the list.

Spoiler: The List

Nothing about this walking brand that's remotely genuine...completely shameless.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Dropped from the squad for the Manchester derby.

Within a couple of days, he's handing out presents to school children with one of the most reputable sports journalists coincidentally present. Before you know it, this arranged PR takes all the focus away from a fantastic derby victory, to all about poor Marcus Rashford again. There's even a line in the article about being shown online 'abuse'. Heaven forbid, don't forget the sympathetic line about abuse.

This feels like Rashford's holding babies for the camera moment.

As we all know, it's impossible for a person to have selfish motives when publicly doing a good deed.

But seriously I see no reason for anyone to ever mention his charity work in the football forum, whether it's to label him a good person or whether it's to suggest it's PR. The fact of the matter is we don't know the guy and should stick to talking about him in the context of football

 

[noodlehair]

Doing some charity work, by proxy or otherwise does at least indicate intent. Sadly some people do not even have that. I've met individuals at my own company that do not even want to use paid-for volunteering days (including paid for travel/lunch) where everything is set up by an event organiser in the company beforehand.

As you've said there noodle, we will never really know. To me I think he seems alright. Maybe he doesn't take well to criticism but no one is perfect. Everyone is flawed to some extent and I think it is certainly fair to say there are worst people out there - far worse - than Rashford.

I feel a little saddened by the news. I wanted him to be great here and it hasn't worked out.

He might be alright. I don't know him. I don't really care. The school meals thing is still a positive as it resulted in some good being done and was only possible due to his name being behind it.

I just don't think being nice to children is a substitute for not being a crap or lazy footballer. I also do find the PR stuff with him very cringe. Any time there's a hint of negative publicity Henry Winter kicks into gear with some bizarre article about what a great human Rashford is. As if that is at all relevant to whether he's playing well enough for Man Utd

 

[Moriarty]

That encapsulates it. Will he come back in like Maguire, or just shrug?

I'd like to believe it will be the former but we'll see.

 

[klayton88]

Players that have assaulted their partners have received less stick than Rashford has at times. Our support is an absolute shambles.

Only because the threads get locked to be fair.

 

[TheLittleOne]

How about we keep him because he's a great player, not this fecking face of United bollocks.... I feel so old sometimes

Same here and i have to hold my hand up. The last few comments from you that I read I all agree with.

 

[Red in STL]

Peraps there is more to the situation than is being admitted, perhaps somesport of disciplinary which would entail Wilcox being involved?

I suspect it's more a case of the coach asking for advice on how best to handle whatever the issue was