Why? Because you don't agree with it or because it is all so true?
They play in proper leagues there against men, not spasmodically against kids.
All I'm saying is, there is no guaranteed success. There are plenty of positives and negatives for any manager we recruit, whether it is Pep, Jose or Giggs.
Like I said previously, LVG was a success at each club he went to...look at him at United. This club is not a football club, it's a world institution. When the CEO of your kit maker comments on you, you know you're unlike any other club in the world.
Ed has not got an easy job on his hands...
Like I said previously, LVG was a success at each club he went to...look at him at United. This club is not a football club, it's a world institution. When the CEO of your kit maker comments on you, you know you're unlike any other club in the world.
Ed has not got an easy job on his hands...
One of which people am I?
And we are only telling you that Pep and Jose have a list of pros and cons, while Giggs have nothing. It's not a criticism of Giggs, it's not that we underrate him, it's just that we have no information to rate him.
I want to know why if Pep has even the slightest consideration towards us, SAF isnt knocking down his door to try and persuade him to take United's reigns. Isnt Pep a huge admirer of SAF? Surely his words might carry some sort of weight?
Whatever, Feck the board, feck everything. Might as well concede the next decade's worth of titles to City...
Whatever, Feck the board, feck everything. Might as well concede the next decade's worth of titles to City...
If both Pep and Mourinho are available and if believed both fancy managing our great club It would be ludicrous from both a football and commercial level if we do not go with one of them. Our club needs a manager with character and hunger, with proven track record and with a style of play that befits our great history. A manager who can attract top names and get us back where we belong. It is clear LVG is not the answer,he has had 1.5 seasons now and in my opinion we have not progressed at all since Moyes days, despite the many millions spent and the constant drone about philosophy.
If the plan is to stick with this boring brand of football and let the inexperienced Giggs take over then it will be to our detriment IMO. As much as we respect Ryan this is not the path we have to follow- will be an interesting few months either way.
If the plan is to stick with this boring brand of football and let the inexperienced Giggs take over then it will be to our detriment IMO. As much as we respect Ryan this is not the path we have to follow- will be an interesting few months either way.
Guardiola took over a side with a superb youth system, and a club with a philosophy of tactics and how to play the game which runs through it from top to bottom - put in place by Johan Cruyff (and others) two decades or so before. He had arguably the worlds best central midfield line up in their prime and Lionel Messi, and big players coming in for big fees when needed. He achieved a lot in continuing work and taking the side on to new levels. Other managers have done exactly the same since - particularly Luis Enrique now. None of that applies here with Ryan Giggs.
And the suggestion that because it worked for Guardiola it'll work for us is based on nothing but optimism. There are loads of ex-players who couldn't succeed in management.
The reality is there is no guarantee with any coach - but as in every job you look at people's experience and their performance in the past and base a decision on that. There may be an undiscovered player in my local park who could score 25 goals a season in the Premier League, but he isn't going to get the chance without making his way up the leagues.
And as regards Jose - he didn't just win it 1 year - he's done it regularly over a long period of time in various leagues and over a long period of time. People may not like him, and that's fine, but you can't question his record.
Because it is so blown out of proportions. City doing everything as a preparation. Their academy is yet to prove anything. We don't know for how long their money-laundering owners will have an interest in the "project". On the other hand, just because some executives at United are currently messing things up, doesn't mean our hard sell is SAF's "maybe not enough" Champions Leagues. To be fair though, all this obsession with "Pep" is pissing me right off. Pep this, Pep that, God Pep, Could he beat SAF, Pep Almighty. And the sheer poetry and romanticism surrounding all this is just BLEH...
It's not even remotely smilar though?
.
This is an example for what i said in the previous post.
Only the next 3 years, that's as long as he will stay in his next job.
Makes you wonder what he is going to do for the rest of his career. 3 years in England, 3 years in France?, 3 in Italy then national team coach, max 6 years, then United to leave a legacy, he'll be 59/60 by then. Pep's coming to United in 15 years!
If he was called Warrenio Joizé he would be
First of all we need to accept Pep is an exception rather than a rule and secondly he managed their B side in Segunda which is still more than what Giggs has done.
Having said all that about Pep, he would not be taking over a ready made team in United like he did at Barca and Bayern!
I'd love for Pep to be our next manager but after him it'd be a difficult decision between Giggs and Jose.
I read a while back that he's interested in managing Brazil for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.
Maybe so, but it's a bigger re build at United imo.
Some would say the reserves/u21 is harder to manage. Not having a settled side, having to motivate 1st teamers who have dropped down to the team etc. Even after all that, to have the success he has had, is exceptional.
But let's not confuse this, I'm not saying Joyce should be up for the job, just stating that taking charge of the second team doesn't mean you'll be good at the first team.
I think City's team still needs work, but with us the structure of the club needs some rebuilding again. City already have an academy in place. We need to re-construct ours. The team needs work as well. If Giggs does get the job, he will need a DOF. All this will be far too much for him to do without help.
Thanks but I don't need your condolences Endless, it's only football after all! I just don't think you're in a position to be able to assess how bright Giggs is. Suitability for the role based on experience or lack of, fair enough but how could you possibly know that he's not a "bright spark"? What are you basing that on? I presume very little but.....
My guess would be that if he wasn't very bright, he wouldn't have passed his coaching badges and wouldn't be so highly thought of by the upper echelons at the club but I don't know enough about him to argue either way. Would be interested to know whether anyone on the forum has spent any time with Giggs or has any first hand experience of his intellect or lack of that they could share.
I dont Brazil have ever had a foreign coach, and they seem reluctant to do so.
So much so that they would rather rehire duds like Dunga and Scolari.
Maybe he should try Spain instead.
Not necessarily in the right thread but I agree with you and do think that Warren Joyce has done a consistently excellent job at the club for a number of years now. I'm also not advocating for him to take the top job but I do wonder whether he should be offered more of a prominent role at the club with more responsibility on the development side. He seems to take a real pride in what he does and is highly regarded by the players and those are the types of people you want to look after and reward in any business....
Agreed
Agreed.
A lot of people fail to realise that experience is key in these kind of situations. Pep managed the second team for a year. Managing a Segundo B division is nothing like like being an U21 reserve manager in England. Pep had a team in an active league of 20 professional teams fighting for their lives. It's January and our reserve side have only played 7 league games all season, let that sink in. Pep was effectively a manager of a league side, he would also have been involved in transfers in or out, contract negotiations, having time to thoroughly test out his ideas, make mistakes and have enough time to correct his ideas and even improve them. Despite all this, he still needed to have spectacular young players to help male his journey with the B team easier. He was a full on manager and not just a reserve manager. He still needed to show his pedigree before getting the chance. I don't think anyone expected him to succeed when he first became Barca manager, in the manner he did.
Ryan Giggs does not have an ounce of experience that Pep had before being linked with the United job. Playing for United should earn you the right to manage United. United as far back as I can remember have been about giving chances but giving chances to those that have earned the right. Fergie like Pep had to earn the right before he became United manager. The man was a winner with Aberdeen. These guys didn't pop out from nowhere. If we want an ex player that has earned the right, why not Solkjaer. We might as well look to hire Wes Brown and John O'Shea to manage United while we are at it, they were clearly brought up the United way and have played long enough for us.
Giggs is nothing more than a boy who sat nest to his dad flying a plane all his life but has never controlled a toy one yet. Would you want him to fly you?
Those players won't be there forever, neither will Perez.
Do I think Zidane will be sacked? Surely. Look at their manager turnover. If there was ever a sure bet it's that the Madrid manager will be sacked. Jose was the longest running manager at 3 years in the past since del Bosque left in 2003.
Warren Joyce has been successful for many years at the reserves, so would level itself in terms of experience you talk about.
Giggs did take control of the club, even if it were for 4 games. He himself said he would like to learn a lot more about the job.
People say Pep was the student of the game and he went out to go and chat to other coaches etc...how do we know Giggs isn't a "student" of the game. What do we know what Giggs gets up to after games. Also, Giggs has been managed by Saf. Worked alongside a guy in Moyes who never got it right. He now works alongside a guy who has a wealth of experience.
The reason why Barca gave Pep the job, he was one of "them" and knew what the club was all about. Giggs being the same for United.
Again, I want Pep. But if not him, then for me, flip a coin between Giggs and Jose.
Giggs did take control of the club, even if it were for 4 games. He himself said he would like to learn a lot more about the job.
People say Pep was the student of the game and he went out to go and chat to other coaches etc...how do we know Giggs isn't a "student" of the game. What do we know what Giggs gets up to after games. Also, Giggs has been managed by Saf. Worked alongside a guy in Moyes who never got it right. He now works alongside a guy who has a wealth of experience.
The reason why Barca gave Pep the job, he was one of "them" and knew what the club was all about. Giggs being the same for United.
Again, I want Pep. But if not him, then for me, flip a coin between Giggs and Jose.
He did not take over the club but the team and the 4 games are of no significance. Any senior player could have done what he did. Evra or Rio could have done what he did. There was nothing that suggested how much Giggs knew as a manager. For all we know, he just encouraged the boys or his teammates I should say who would have been happy to play for anyone other than Moyes. 4 games at the end of the season with absolutely nothing to play for has no bearing. I remember wishing he just played only youth players in that run of games.
We have no evidence that Giggs is a student of the game either just because he was managed by SAF. Pep didn't just play in a team rooted in a philosophy from the youth teams up but he also had the opportunity to move outside Barcelona to learn different footballing cultures. Right now, we have no evidence of Giggs being nothing more than a yes man under LvG. Giggs is only the assistant manager because we wanted to have a United representative among the staff rather than Patrick Kluivert. He is on the coaching not on merit but politics. I don't know but I doubt LvG and Giggs would trust each other to share the same football ideology. Why else would we have 2 assistant managers?
Barca didn't just give the job to Pep because he was one of them. He was captain, an intelligent player (i wish we got him instead of Veron) but he proved it when it mattered.
When Fergie retired, i just don't think that management pushed hard enough to get Pep, Maureen or Klopp. They went with the safe option looking for a long term fix with Moyes. History is about to repeat itself, which may leave United in the wilderness. We are sitting with a lame duck manager, and a inexperienced manager in waiting while 2 of the most successful managers over the last 10 years will be moving to another club. I have nothing against Giggs and would not mind having him as manager, but not if there is a chance we can get hold of Maureen or Pep.
Or what i think is when david gill said ' we are going for the tried & tested method' he meant van gaal and the success he brings post him leaving clubs like bayern & barcelona. He clearly knows how to build a club & he knows what he is doing. There's a chance that moyes might have been bought almost as a suicidal shot to the foot because he was clearly incapable and no-one else was available which would then allow LVG a bit more leniency as we see now.
Why else would woodward be so adamant to keep him? I say because there is a plan. Van gaal for 2 or 3 years depending on guardiola- after him is giggs.
This way the best team is made for giggs while he learns from what i say to be 3 out of the 5 best managers available.
I'm not trying to pretend like im right but i genuinely find that interesting.
If United appoint Guardiola, i hope for his sake he doesn't have Giggs on his coaching staff. He won't acquiesce about having Giggs forced upon him, nor have him as an assistant to ''groom'' him, he'd want people working with him who can trust and will buy into his dare i say it, philosophy.
United are not a bigger institution than Barca or Bayern.
I beg to disagree
What makes us bigger? I genuinely want to know your opinion on this
We know nothing about Giggs credentials as a manger, we're just fans. We don't see the work that goes on behind the scenes. By all accounts, he took over training before the Chelsea game...one of our better games recently.
And yes, Pep got the job because he is one of them. Hence why they went to Tito. And after the disaster with that Argentine manager, they went back to one of their own...Luis Henrique.
Just look at the Adidas sponsorship deal alone...that's a good start!
Bet Bayern will have something to say about that when their deal is up.
Sure Real will too...doesn't mean they can afford to offer that to all their teams!
You seriously don't believe this do you?
If by one their own, why didn't they go for Carles Puyol or Xavi? You shouldn't get a top job just because you are own of theirs. This only promotes laziness and not hard work. This is politics and not football. People getting hired because who you know and not by proven talent. Credit should be given to OGS and Gaz for putting themselves out there to get better as managers. I'd rather them than Giggs tbh.
Bet you it doesnt come close to matching ours. Where are the worldwide throngs of Bayern fans that are going to plop down their hard earned cash for all the overpriced kits?
Bayern is a well respected, very large institution, but financially still nowhere near us