Is that when their contract runs out?
No sorry I'm wrong, current deal expires in 2030.
No sorry I'm wrong, current deal expires in 2030.
Hm, I see what you're both saying. Recent results undoubtedly obscure things and make it harder to see the bigger picture. The only issue I have is, we are trying to produce a new style of play with the team consistent with the personnel available, in City's case it is more a job of continuing that with a few key concise signings. I can see potential for our wheels falling off if we recruit badly more so than in the instance of City, but maybe thats just the pessimist in me.
I'm also not entirely convinced of a midfield of Schweinstiger-Schneiderlin-Herrera, but that may be down to a struggling forward line. They haven't shown much to suggest they can have us competing for all honours though
He's a Barca fan. Unless you knew that
You cannot look at BFS as a long term option. He has looked good recently but has had three games rest, so it might have done him good. The other two are coming back from injuries and might not be quite there yet. Time will tell. Gundogan with Morgan and Herrera would be something else.
He's a Barca fan. Unless you knew that
Probably doesnt. If the tagline is anything to go by.
If we doing the smart thing and appoint Pep, its completely up to him if he wants to keep Giggs .
Nothing to moan about there IMO.
We really should have landed Gundogan this summer, but apparently he must have be asking for crazy wages because he was clearly interested in moving but no one wanted to meet his demands. He is tailor made for our midfield
Bless you Brightonian and vi1lain for popping up in this thread. I was starting to get depressed at how terrible things were at the club. You wonder about some of these supporters if that's what a couple of years without a pot does for them. Of course we're a huge club. Surely the last 20 + years tells us that...?!? A couple of fallow seasons doesn't take the gloss off just yet does it?
If I'm picking up your point correctly Harrisamo, I tend to agree that it is easier to identify players, convince them to sign and slot them in when you have a recognisable "style" of playing which I think city have established over the last few years. We have to, and can, sell ourselves on any number of things but I'm not sure playing style is one those at this point.
People are assuming we are going to hire Pep?
And that Giggs may or may not be an assistant.
Aren't we getting head of ourselves?
And that Giggs may or may not be an assistant.
Aren't we getting head of ourselves?
I'm genuinely shocked that some fans aren't taking City seriously. The fact that we can do a squad comparison is enough to tell you how far they have come. Yes, they are arch rivals but they are real threats nonetheless. All this talk about their squad needing a rebuild is actually testament to their ambitions. Say what you will about them having loads of bad buys but one thing that has remained is that they have a spine of Hart-Kompany-Toure-Silva-Aguero that has been good value for money when you consider where they are coming from, and is still better than what we have. They may not have done well in the UCL but they have ruffled feathers in the league. On the other hand we are struggling in the league, probably underdogs in Europa.
Since when did them being "only" 6 points ahead of us despite us being crap become a positive thing? Are we pursuing them or are we pursuing success?
Maybe when they win win another title or two we will wake up
Since when did them being "only" 6 points ahead of us despite us being crap become a positive thing? Are we pursuing them or are we pursuing success?
Maybe when they win win another title or two we will wake up
Sorry buddy, but the results cannot be ignored.
MCFC have been finishing ahead of us for 2 years and this will be the 3rd year. Right now, our squad is weaker than MCFC's. No doubt about that. I don't even understand how anybody could argue this.
We would need to spend roughly £200M to match MCFC's attack. And that is IF we can attract high quality players, in the first place (which is now questionable).
There is a reason why MCFC consistently challenge for the title, while we fight for top 4 or top 7 - our squad is weaker. I actually don't feel that LVG is worse that Peligrini. LVG is a top class manager, who is struggling to adapt to the EPL, while Pelligrini has managed to adapt.
Our best chance of silverware is to get Mourinho in now and go for the title next year. Guardiola to MCFC is apparently an (almost) done deal and I don't like chasing unattainable targets.
If we end up with Giggs, he'll probably need 2 years to be sacked, after which it will be difficult to get out of the losing habit. LFC have had exactly this same problem and it looks like we are now going to follow them unless we make a drastic change.
I assume you aren't referring to me with that first paragraph? As nothing I have ever posted would reflect me baring such feelings!
Yes also in regards to recruitment, but my point was that it is harder to integrate new players into a side that doesn't yet have an identity in terms of playing style, as opposed to a side like City as you mention who have theirs firmly established. Obviously the issue here is whether the style of play we're going for with LvG is one that is consistent beyond his time here.
Great point. Which is one of the reasons I would want Mourinho over Pep if possible.
I think everyone should be concerned at the development of city and the strides they've taken, not just United. That shouldn't mean we demean our own club or talk as if we're somehow inferior to them.
We've had a couple of poor years but that doesn't mean the club aren't aware of the challenge that's been set. We're still Manchester United and that should mean something. I'm sure we'll rise again but it will be a rocky road along the way....
We've had a couple of poor years but that doesn't mean the club aren't aware of the challenge that's been set. We're still Manchester United and that should mean something. I'm sure we'll rise again but it will be a rocky road along the way....
The first paragraph definitely wasn't aimed at you but as you'd referenced the two other posters, it allowed me to be lazy....soz.
Agree with your point tho.
Is that actually what you have gathered out of reading this thread?
Don't worry, they'd be moaning about Pep as well before too long
I think most people are annoyed that we aren't getting Pep and that Giggs will be the main man.
My Gillingham supporting mate was saying to me earlier that he'd be shitting a brick if Paul Scally appointed Giggs as their next manager.
It's a crazy world when a small league one sides supporters deem appointing Giggs as too risky, yet the Manchester United board are (seemingly) fully on board with it!
It's a crazy world when a small league one sides supporters deem appointing Giggs as too risky, yet the Manchester United board are (seemingly) fully on board with it!
I earlier said we're a football institution, and a massive one at that.
But you fail to understand, Giggs is in management. He's an assistant coach, who has managed the club before.
So on one hand you say Giggs shouldn't be allowed the job, then on the other, United aren't as big a club as Barca. So Giggs has managed the club, has been on the coaching staff coming up to 3 years but is not allowed to have the job? After all, Barca being the bigger club appointed a relative novice, so why can't the smaller club United appoint someone who would have had just as much experience as Pep.
Of course Barca appointed Pep as he's one of their own. Xavi still playing, so why would he want to manage them? Puyol, no idea if he wants to be a manger. Luis Henrique, again one of their own, was doing well at a mid table Spanish team. He hadn't done anything amazing. So why did they choose him and not another coach who had won titles etc?
Serious question - how does Giggs have more experience than Pep did at that stage?
Giggs managed four meaningless games for us. Pep had been managing a tier below the first team and was accountable for their performances - unlike Giggs. La Liga may be getting a bit more competitive nowadays but that's just more recent - if Pep messed up, the worst Barca would have been is probably fourth. In the Premier League - we're looking at a possible disaster here which makes a risky appointment like Giggs incomprehensible.Nobody is saying Giggs can't be a manager of United one day - but what's wrong with him going out and earning the right to manage the club like everyone else? What is the hurry to put him in the hot seat?
You have to understand that United is in a tenuous position at the moment - 2 managerial failures after SAF; a huge debt; obligations to sponsors we've somehow convinced to give us obscene amounts of cash; shareholders; owners - it's a massive massive responsibility. It took a while to also build this huge power base that is United, but it won't take long for it to all come tumbling down if we're not careful. Our third appointment therefore needs to be absolutely solid - and that does not include giving it to an inexperienced Giggs. He'll also destroy his legacy if he fails (which seems more likely than not) in my humble opinion.
Serious question - how does Giggs have more experience than Pep did at that stage?
Nobody is saying Giggs can't be a manager of United one day - but what's wrong with him going out and earning the right to manage the club like everyone else? What is the hurry to put him in the hot seat?
You have to understand that United is in a tenuous position at the moment - 2 managerial failures after SAF; a huge debt; obligations to sponsors we've somehow convinced to give us obscene amounts of cash; shareholders; owners - it's a massive massive responsibility. It took a while to also build this huge power base that is United, but it won't take long for it to all come tumbling down if we're not careful. Our third appointment therefore needs to be absolutely solid - and that does not include giving it to an inexperienced Giggs. He'll also destroy his legacy if he fails (which seems more likely than not) in my humble opinion.
I completely understand and that is why I keep saying, Pep would be my 1st choice. What I'm trying to put across is, why the notion of Giggs being in charge is so absurd?
We tried the approach of a solid manager, who knew the league very well and was known to get the best out of ordinary players. A manger who had an eye for a talent. We finished 7th with him, after just winning the league.
We now have a manager who has a wealth of experience, won the league in each country he has been to, even with minnows AZ Alkmaar. He's a coach who has been credit laying down the foundations at the two world biggest clubs. We now find ourselves 5th in the league, with fans calling for his head.
We looking at a coach, again won big major honours, who has been sacked by his employers for winning the league one year, and near enough in relegation zone the next.
So why not try our luck with Giggs if we don't get Pep? Look at Real, they've just given the job to Zizou, again with one year as an assistant and half a year with reserves. By all accounts, Barca took risk and paid off. Football is about taking risks.
We dont need to 'build a team'. A couple of additions to our starting lineup and a manager that can maximize the abilities of our squad, and we're set, in my opinion.
Hilarious.
Look at Barca's team, stadium, trophy haul. They have more Facebook fans than us - a fair measure of popularity. They have had bigger revenues than us for 4 out the 5 last year's.
They are at least equal in size. As are Bayern.
Financial no where near us?
You are appalling Ill informed.
Last year they had bigger revenues than us.
If the Euro hadn't tank so badly it wouldn't even easier close.
Hilarious.
First of all Real are a completely different club to us in every respect so I prefer to put that aside. Besides they are absolutely ruthless and if Zidane starts messing up he'll be out on his arse - not sentiments there.
I hear what you're saying about solid managers finding it hard with us - however the fact is you choose someone to be in charge based on their track record. You don't put someone in charge based on nothing (which is what Giggs has as a manager - nothing) - in the United board's position this is a breach of their directorial duties if they make a decision based on a blank cv. This is one thing.
Also please note, the obligations that the club has right now are not going away - therefore don't you think that if LVG and Moyes (with their experience) struggles/ed with the beast that is United - what on earth is it going to be like for Giggs? LVG is super confident (or arrogant depending on how you think of him) and yet, you can see sometimes that he questions himself and loses that supreme confidence at times. It says to me that United job is a bloody killer. If LVG whose been around the block a few times can struggle with all the pressure, what do you think that will do to Giggs?
Giggs is in management
Giggs is not in management, he is only part of the coaching staff of the first team.
He's an assistant coach
He is not a coach, he is an assistant manager who is only there for political reasons. He may have his coaching license but he has no experience to back it up with.
who has managed the club before
And I repeat, Giggs did not manage United in those 4 games, he just oversaw the selection for the XI for the upcoming games. Anyone could have done what he could have done. I would even disagree if letting Giggs to take charge of those 4 games was right. He was still a player and Warren Joyce should have been next in line to be the interim manager for those games at least. We love Giggs but that was just political.
Please try not to twist my point. I firmly agree that we are not currently as big as Barca but that doesn't we aren't a big enough club, relatively speaking. Our aspirations should we way bigger than what it seems like now, and Giggs does not point to that. Giggs has got no managing experience whatsoever and there is nothing to say that Giggs has had a say in what we do this season. He is just there to keep things "United", nothing more. Comparing Giggs to Pep and Enrique is just disrespectful and disregarding the hard work they did away as managers prior to managing Barca.
So why did they choose him and not another coach who had won titles etc?
How about maybe because they want to stick to their philosophy? Like De Boer, the current manager of Ajax. He would not have taken charge of the first team if he had not shown his pedigree with the youth team. Heck, this guy had to spend 3 years with the youth team. He also played almost 500 games for Ajax and Barca at a period where "Total Football" was the thing.
hadn't noticed thatSo, like i said earlier, Barca chose Pep and Luis as they are their own. They know the Barca philosophy as you say.
I can't really discuss Giggs position with you, you clearly know more about Giggs position than me. You must surely be on the board, or work within the club to know what Giggs does and does not do.
So Giggs know United through and through and is learning a completely different style of play under LvG. How is that going to work? The way we are playing is against everything Giggs loves atm.
Financially we are worth $3.56 billion, Barca $3.16 billion.
We still have the kit deal to come into these figures and not to even mention the TV deal.
So, financially, yes we are bigger than them.
Future earnings are already reflected in financials, so the kit and TV deal are already included in that figure.
Buddy, you are the one trying to make this more difficult than it is. You keep on using Pep and Enrique as the basis for your argument but you refuse to point to the FACT that BOTH Pep and Enrique had been groomed for the job. They BOTH managed the Barca B side for a combined 4 years. The later also had another 4 years of managerial experience, facts that you have failed to apply. If we want to follow that model, Giggs need to go prove himself with the U18s or U21 for 2 seasons. At least Solksjaer gave it a go and he was successful as the U21 manager. He earned the right to be a proper manager and he went back to Molde and guided them to their first league title in 50 years. Why should Giggs be any different
There is no need to take it personal, this is a forum. It's not like the United board are going to take notice of what goes on here. And if I knew Giggs, I would get an autograph and tell him to go get some experience before taking the job.
Just because he played for us doesn't mean he loves the clubs more than we the fans do. They get paid to love the club, we pay because we love the club.
About that evaluation, a foreigner can only buy half of Bayern. So I'm pretty sure that it's a big negative in the evalutation of the club.
I'm not too sure. I just know Giggs has been touted as our manager in public since the clubs awards towards end of last year. So Giggs himself and the board must have something planned.
Agreed. On a similar note, I want Messi. But if not him then flip a coin between Neymar and a 16 year old from the academy that people who deal with him day to day think could be fairly good.
If it is something different, then we have wasted 3 years of LvG and his alienation of the fans.