Manchester United transfer news and rumours for summer 2014

apotheosis said:
Don't disagree with that thinking. To be clear, i have no problem with touchline wingers, they clearly have a place and when used correctly can be a real thorn in the side of the opposition. What annoys me is when it is claimed players like Mata or Kagawa for instance, have to be played as number 10's or not at all. It's clearly complete rubbish, and is an insult to the players themselves. Utd fans especially get caught up in this type of thinking, after so many years of being accustomed to our winger based 4-4-2. These players need the freedom to move about and find space, then they can use their intelligence to play off each other. Mata may move central then make a run out wide, Kagawa then moves into that space and so on and so forth. We saw exactly that against Newcastle, when Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj played behind Hernandez. Hernandez's runs in behind created the space, and Mata and Kagawa ran riot in the space created, interchanging positions and using intelligent movement to stretch the opposition, irrespective of their lack of pace.

My point is despite Rooney being a very talented player, he just doesn't allow for that type of movement and interchangeability from those around him. He stays central and drops deep and others like Mata have to stay wide or get caught up in his space. The one game where Rooney was not involved Mata and Kagawa were exceptional. It's not to blame rooney, he is what he is, but i do believe having to base the whole teams tactics around him has a detrimental effect on those around him.

We even saw it with England. Rooney plays on the left, and was pretty quiet, but Sturridge Welbeck and Stirling all played very well, interchanging positions and getting involved. Second game Rooney is back in the middle, and while he played slightly better, Sturridge, Stirling and Welbeck were very poor in comparison to the previous game. For me, we have to play a system that gets the best out of all of our players as a unit and not just base it around Rooney. In my view his inclusion is the main reason why all our so called 'widemen' (bar Valencia) seem to suffer regularly from indifferent and inconsistent form.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on a certain extent on mata and kagwa, but for me I do not think we need both kagwa and mata, and I feel the former should be sold as the latter is an all round better player. When I say we need pace in the team, I am talking about the all round wide player, the robbens, the sanchez's, the ronaldo's, that wide player who can not only create for other players, but can score goals is well, a wide player/forward. Movement is always key, that can go wide go center always swapping positions that makes our midfield more compact. Which is something the current batch of wide players we do not have, valencia is too ridged, nani no matter if many say he is talented he is still quiet ridged, young can be interchangeable but hes pretty clueless. Now Janazaj which I do not rate has that out an out wide player, he reminds me more of a david silva, allot more clever and has that ability to score goals out of complete nowhere.

When you sign someone like mata/kagwa/ozil, to get the best out of these guys, be prepared play more central, they are your classic 4231/433 type players, but I feel they work even better if you got players like ronaldo/sanchez/messi/robben, because those 4 offer the team goals, so that gives the team the option of not having to play 2 strikers. And with united we are to scared of dropping one of our strikers because of the fear of losing that goal threat.

If I was LVG, I would drop a rooney, play mata has the tip off RVP, with janazaj and hopefully a top class wide player on the other side, with Herrera and another playing deep. In a perfect world it would be?
DDG
rafeal jones smalling evra/shaw
herrera ??
?? mata janazaj
RVP

who the 2 magic signings would be? I have no clue, perfect world sanchez and vidal would fill the 2 slots
 
Oneunited26 said:
I agree with you on a certain extent on mata and kagwa, but for me I do not think we need both kagwa and mata, and I feel the former should be sold as the latter is an all round better player. When I say we need pace in the team, I am talking about the all round wide player, the robbens, the sanchez's, the ronaldo's, that wide player who can not only create for other players, but can score goals is well, a wide player/forward. Movement is always key, that can go wide go center always swapping positions that makes our midfield more compact. Which is something the current batch of wide players we do not have, valencia is too ridged, nani no matter if many say he is talented he is still quiet ridged, young can be interchangeable but hes pretty clueless. Now Janazaj which I do not rate has that out an out wide player, he reminds me more of a david silva, allot more clever and has that ability to score goals out of complete nowhere.

When you sign someone like mata/kagwa/ozil, to get the best out of these guys, be prepared play more central, they are your classic 4231/433 type players, but I feel they work even better if you got players like ronaldo/sanchez/messi/robben, because those 4 offer the team goals, so that gives the team the option of not having to play 2 strikers. And with united we are to scared of dropping one of our strikers because of the fear of losing that goal threat.

If I was LVG, I would drop a rooney, play mata has the tip off RVP, with janazaj and hopefully a top class wide player on the other side, with Herrera and another playing deep. In a perfect world it would be?
DDG
rafeal jones smalling evra/shaw
herrera ??
?? mata janazaj
RVP

who the 2 magic signings would be? I have no clue, perfect world sanchez and vidal would fill the 2 slots
Click to expand...

oh yeah, don't get me wrong, my point wasn't to champion the inclusion of both Mata and Kagawa. But more to highlight how effective both can be given the right circumstances. Pace is always a bonus, but it isn't a prerequisite for positive attacking play. Messi isn't the quickest, and he doesn't play for Spain as he does for Barca, yet Spain have managed to win 3 consecutive international tournaments with no real pace in their team, and often with no real strikers or pacy wingers.

My point was simply that even if we bought Sanchez, limiting his contribution by expecting him to hug the touchline to accommodate Rooney as a no 10 would be similarly stunting to him, as i am claiming it has been for Mata and Kagawa. Systems get the best out of players, we have seen this more and more over the past few years. Dortmund and Atletico Madrid have all improved dramatically by adopting a system that allows the team to exceed the sum of it's parts.

We seem to get embroiled in buying new players all the time, instead of looking at how we can get more out of what we already have. RVP, Rooney, Nani, Januzaj, Mata, Kagawa and Valencia. there is more than enough there for us to be far more of a potent attacking threat than we have proved to be last year. Buying Sanchez and limiting him, as we have done with Kagawa and Mata, will improve us only sporadically. I believe LVG is progressive enough in his thinking to understand this, and i am hoping for him to implement a positive change in our philosophy, one that is more relevant to the evolution of modern football, instead of hanging on grimly to the methods of past successes.

Personally i would get rid of Rooney while we still can. SAF tried to move him to midfield, and we were Champions with him out of the team. Moyes put his faith back in him as the star man, and while rooney played better than most, nobody else seemed to prosper from having him back in the team. I see LVG using Rooney as a Sneijder type, or not at all. I just don't think his inclusion inspires those around him enough to be given a pivotal number 10 role. I would try and trade him for Vidal or Sanchez myself, he has been a great player for us, but i don't see us moving forward while he is pivotal to our forward play, and if he isn't going to be a first choice, then we might as well sell him for someone who is.
 
apotheosis said:
oh yeah, don't get me wrong, my point wasn't to champion the inclusion of both Mata and Kagawa. But more to highlight how effective both can be given the right circumstances. Pace is always a bonus, but it isn't a prerequisite for positive attacking play. Messi isn't the quickest, and he doesn't play for Spain as he does for Barca, yet Spain have managed to win 3 consecutive international tournaments with no real pace in their team, and often with no real strikers or pacy wingers.

My point was simply that even if we bought Sanchez, limiting his contribution by expecting him to hug the touchline to accommodate Rooney as a no 10 would be similarly stunting to him, as i am claiming it has been for Mata and Kagawa. Systems get the best out of players, we have seen this more and more over the past few years. Dortmund and Atletico Madrid have all improved dramatically by adopting a system that allows the team to exceed the sum of it's parts.

We seem to get embroiled in buying new players all the time, instead of looking at how we can get more out of what we already have. RVP, Rooney, Nani, Januzaj, Mata, Kagawa and Valencia. there is more than enough there for us to be far more of a potent attacking threat than we have proved to be last year. Buying Sanchez and limiting him, as we have done with Kagawa and Mata, will improve us only sporadically. I believe LVG is progressive enough in his thinking to understand this, and i am hoping for him to implement a positive change in our philosophy, one that is more relevant to the evolution of modern football, instead of hanging on grimly to the methods of past successes.

Personally i would get rid of Rooney while we still can. SAF tried to move him to midfield, and we were Champions with him out of the team. Moyes put his faith back in him as the star man, and while rooney played better than most, nobody else seemed to prosper from having him back in the team. I see LVG using Rooney as a Sneijder type, or not at all. I just don't think his inclusion inspires those around him enough to be given a pivotal number 10 role. I would try and trade him for Vidal or Sanchez myself, he has been a great player for us, but i don't see us moving forward while he is pivotal to our forward play, and if he isn't going to be a first choice, then we might as well sell him for someone who is.
Click to expand...

I disagree there is enough attacking players, not when half of them are out of form. When rooney is not in the greatest of shapes, nani is a waist of time, valencia no idea how he got a new contract, kagwa has had 2 seasons and hes been average at best, in mata he is a much better player who can score from free kicks, and like scholes he ghosts in the box. I said you can start sanchez mata and janazaj has an attacking 3 supporting RVP, we would have 3 players allot more comfortable in their starting positions, but they roam has you have the protection of vidal and herrera, but you would have a front 4 of sanchez mata janazaj and RVP not only technical on the ball, but they have great movement and that creativity to do something out of nothing. And in sanchez mata and RVP all 3 can easy score 20 a season, in RVP's case 30 a season

Sanchez and janazaj would not be limited, they would be given the option to go wide outside inside, but all 4 can play together because all 4 are different types of players

sanchez is that dynamic forward, comes inside can shoot with either foot, and likes to play that one touch football that connects with the other 3 forwards
mata is the more clever number 10, great free kick specialist and like scholes he ghosts into that box
janazaj is like silva, very clever ghosting past players but always comes inside to look for that pass
RVP is a monster with his left foot and is the all round CF
 
Oneunited26 said:
I disagree there is enough attacking players, not when half of them are out of form. When rooney is not in the greatest of shapes, nani is a waist of time, valencia no idea how he got a new contract, kagwa has had 2 seasons and hes been average at best, in mata he is a much better player who can score from free kicks, and like scholes he ghosts in the box. I said you can start sanchez mata and janazaj has an attacking 3 supporting RVP, we would have 3 players allot more comfortable in their starting positions, but they roam has you have the protection of vidal and herrera, but you would have a front 4 of sanchez mata janazaj and RVP not only technical on the ball, but they have great movement and that creativity to do something out of nothing. And in sanchez mata and RVP all 3 can easy score 20 a season, in RVP's case 30 a season

Sanchez and janazaj would not be limited, they would be given the option to go wide outside inside, but all 4 can play together because all 4 are different types of players

sanchez is that dynamic forward, comes inside can shoot with either foot, and likes to play that one touch football that connects with the other 3 forwards
mata is the more clever number 10, great free kick specialist and like scholes he ghosts into that box
janazaj is like silva, very clever ghosting past players but always comes inside to look for that pass
RVP is a monster with his left foot and is the all round CF
Click to expand...

Well no they wouldn't be limited, because they would be playing without Rooney. Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj were not limited against Newcastle without Rooney, which was sort of my point. Sanchez played left or right with Rooney as No 10 would still limit him, as it has the others imo. Rooney out of the equation, means nobody is restricted out wide which frees everybody to interchange. Playing Rooney at 10 restricts the widemen to staying wide. Playing Mata or Kagawa there wouldn't.

We're agreeing on most points, but you seem to have missed my claim that Rooney as a 10 is our problem in my view. Without him there, we are in complete agreement on the fluidity and variety we could have in attack. You have to wonder why so many talented attacking players seem out of form and so often. Nani, Young, Kagawa, Mata, even RVP last year. they all seem to have performed better when he isn't in the team. RVP was brilliant without Rooney playing as main man, yet much poorer when he did. Mata and Kagawa have been average for the most part, yet in the one game where rooney didn't feature, they suddenly have the freedom to move and play without limitations and both enjoy their best games of the season. Coincidence? Possibly, but i don't think so for the reasons i have previously laid out. Again we have the England example of our first 2 games. Rooney at number 10 and the 3 around him play poorly, both individually and as a unit, a stark comparison to the game before when Rooney wasn't at 10.
 
Anyone else think that we are in desperate need of a good winger or 2?

Our current stock have been dreadfully out of form for a couple of seasons now, and considering our main form of attack is through wing play (this may change with LVG appointment), we need some real creativity there.

Will LVG look to eliminate the emphasis on getting the ball down the flanks. Even if he does, our current players who occupy the positions have been crap for years.

I think we could probably get by (qualify for CL) without an extra central midfielder but our weakness on the wings will ultimately hurt us in terms of chance creation. Arguably our best player, Van Persie, is pretty useless if he is not supplied with chances.
 
Just assessing our current attacking options; van Persie, Rooney, Mata, Welbeck, Kagawa, Januzaj, Nani, Valencia, Hernandez, Young, Lingard, Zaha and Wilson. We essentially have thirteen players for just four offensive positions. Obviously the likes of Young, Hernandez, Nani, Lingard, Zaha and Wilson might be loaned out, simply continue in the U21's or be sold. That would cut it down to seven and ideally seven or eight is the number of players we would have to compete for those positions.

I think just the one winger would suffice, but we are already stocked with quality options in the attacking positions, it just happens to be that all of our wingers are either very young, poor or injured/unreliable. Signing two wingers would be overkill and have ramifications on our existing forward players, especially considering how strong we are there and how it would inevitably effect at least one star player.

A group of van Persie, Mata, Sanchez, Rooney, Januzaj, Welbeck, Kagawa and Valencia would be very, very strong and allow us to penetrate out wide, supplement great delivery, while also cutting teams open seamlessly through the middle.
 
pocco said:
Didn't want to start a new thread about this, but we're linked with Kuyt in the Independent today.
Click to expand...

They would have locked the thread if you did. The independent is a decent source too but because he's not a £40m player then we're not allowed discuss him. The man has 100 caps for a top national side ffs, didn't he score in every round of the CL at one stage too?
 
Manucho the boss said:
They would have locked the thread if you did. The independent is a decent source too but because he's not a £40m player then we're not allowed discuss him. The man has 100 caps for a top national side ffs, didn't he score in every round of the CL at one stage too?
Click to expand...

He's shite.
 
Manucho the boss said:
I'm sure a lot of us feel that way but his hat-trick against us would be soon forgotten with the effort he shows on the pitch.

Many of the uneducated didn't appreciate Park either.
Click to expand...

I can't see Kuyt improving us as a team. We need dynamic, pacey wingers not Sloth.
 
Kuyt :lol: what a nonsense. What bullshit player. He has absolutely no skills. He can just work his socks off but he is awful to watch and at 33 he is even more shit
 
Santos J said:
Are we really trying to find ways to justify signing Kuyt? :lol: feck me.
Click to expand...

People laughed at being linked with Owen too, called him a scouse bastard etc, we celebrated his goal against City all the same.

Don't know if you remember him but a guy called Alex Ferguson spoke glowingly about Kuyt in his book.
 
When is the Chevy sponsorship kicking in? I wouldn't be very happy as a sponsor and I saw all the new guys coming in sporting another brand.
 
Manucho the boss said:
People laughed at being linked with Owen too, called him a scouse bastard etc, we celebrated his goal against City all the same.

Don't know if you remember him but a guy called Alex Ferguson spoke glowingly about Kuyt in his book.
Click to expand...

I'm not really arsed about what managers have said about him tbh I'm able to form my own opinion on a player and that is that signing a 33 year old Dirk Kuyt would be nothing short of a terrible signing. It's got nothing to do with the fact he used to player for the scousers. If Moyes was still our manager and he wanted him nobody at all would be trying to justify it.
 
Kuyt is a decent player and I have advocated signing De Jong if other options in that position dont come to fruition but this would be a bridge too far. Solves a problem we dont have.

Ill be amazed if this is something Van Gaal is thinking about at all.
 
Santos J said:
I'm not really arsed about what managers have said about him tbh I'm able to form my own opinion on a player and that is that signing a 33 year old Dirk Kuyt would be nothing short of a terrible signing. It's got nothing to do with the fact he used to player for the scousers. If Moyes was still our manager and he wanted him nobody at all would be trying to justify it.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Moyes isn't currently being the outstanding manager at the World Cup. If Louis and Fergie both rate Kuyt, then that's good enough for me, if you know better than them then I suggest you're in the wrong profession mate.

He might be 33 but Giggsy just showed that means nothing if you maintain excellent fitness levels, as Kuyt has also shown in the extreme heat of Brazil,
 
Manucho the boss said:
Yeah but Moyes isn't currently being the outstanding manager at the World Cup. If Louis and Fergie both rate Kuyt, then that's good enough for me, if you know better than them then I suggest you're in the wrong profession mate.

He might be 33 but Giggsy just showed that means nothing if you maintain excellent fitness levels, as Kuyt has also shown in the extreme heat of Brazil,
Click to expand...

A players ability has nothing to do with the manager who's trying to sign him though. By all accounts Moyes would've signed Shaw and LvG has now so yeah. Where did I claim to know better than them? All I said was I'm able to form my own opinion on a player, not just conforming to one because our manager thinks he's good enough.

Kuyt would be a mental signing, no manager saying otherwise will change my mind on that & if LvG wasn't our manager you'd be thinking the same thing.
 
Last edited:
Juan't Mata said:
You say it like having a manager who's judgement we can trust is a bad thing.
Click to expand...

Sometimes a manager will sign a player based on a scout report over a few games, Louis has worked closely with Kuyt over a long time with the Dutch national team, I'd imagine he knows far more about him than any armchair fan.

We've already lost some experienced heads from the squad, maybe he see's Kuyt as a great example of professionalism to our younger players. Anyway if he's capable of starring at the World Cup then he's easily still good enough for the Prem. By the time we're back amongst the business end of the Champions League I'd imagine he wouldn't see much game time.
 
unitedbhoy said:
Anyone else think that we are in desperate need of a good winger or 2?
Click to expand...
Nani - poor last two seasons
Valencia - ditto, could be useful to cover winger and RWB though
Welbeck - not a winger
Rooney - not a winger
Young - not enough quality
Mata - winger not his best position
Kagawa - not his best position
Januzaj - young and unproven

Plenty of numbers but not enough quality specialist wide men.

Yes for me.
 
Nani/Zaha are the only players on our books, who you can say are definite wingers with the style and panache to play there, problem is they're not good enough. Januzaj is a short term solution, he is a number 10 in my opinion.
 
On talk of Sanchez, I think with Zaha maybe coming back and with Januzaj needing game time we could really postpone any investment in wide areas until next summer. Unless something goes horribly wrong our defence won't need touching for a few years and Rooney and RVP should be alright up top for a year more at least - so summer 2015 could be a time to add a winger or two.
 
Plugsy said:
On talk of Sanchez, I think with Zaha maybe coming back and with Januzaj needing game time we could really postpone any investment in wide areas until next summer. Unless something goes horribly wrong our defence won't need touching for a few years and Rooney and RVP should be alright up top for a year more at least - so summer 2015 could be a time to add a winger or two.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree. Sort midfield and centre back this year and let LVG decide who he likes and who he doesn't like from our wide/front options over the course of the season.
 
Last edited:
Dwight Yorke is actually pretty clued in when it comes to United on-goings. I'm pretty sure I've seen him involved with training several times over the past year or so.
 
Ogden's said today we're after at least one more defender & an energetic/creative midfidler. Says we're likely to bid for Vidal and are also interested in any of De Jong, Blind, De Vrij, Carvalho & Cavani. Nani, Hernandez, Anderson, Young & Cleverley could apparently leave.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.