Manchester United transfer news and rumours for summer 2014

Paul the Wolf said:
I thought we were talking about the past, now the future, let's see what LvG comes up with, if he puts Kagawa ahead of Rooney then we have got problems. Rooney top-rated United outfield player last season, top scorer last season . It's not as if Rooney is my favourite player but this irrational battering is incredible.
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Van Gaal put a crapy Olic and an 18 years old Muller while benched the German all time transfer record (Gomez), the top scorer of Bundesliga (Toni) and one of the best German strikers of all time (Klose) on the bench. And then won the double and reached the final of UCL. All bets are off, wouldn't be surprised at all if we see Rooney on bench.

I am pretty sure that if Van Gaal goes for a posession based game, Rooney won't be important and probably will be in the bench, and it is very possible that Kagawa is more suited for that type of game (Mata definitely). If we go for a more direct approach then I guess Rooney will be important and a starter (until he goes into menopause and play like a 50 years old donkey). However, I just think that there is no chance at all that we'll see Rooney on the wing, and it is certain that Van Gaal won't put him in positions he can deliver just to make way for him on the pitch. It will be either as a No.10 or as a main striker (when Robin gets injured or is rested).
 
If he goes for a 4-3-3 I will be very surprised if Rooney is first choice in the starting 11 ahead of either Mata or RVP.
 
Kill 'em all said:
If he goes for a 4-3-3 I will be very surprised if Rooney is first choice in the starting 11 ahead of either Mata or RVP.
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I think it is almost certain that he'll go with a 4-3-3. So the question is, will he play Mata on the left and Rooney on the center or will he play Mata on the center and Rooney on the bench. A great problem to have IMO.
 
Ducklegs said:
Amazing how in the last three seasons he has contributed to more goals than mata, playing as a number 10.

Mata must be rubbish.


2013-2014
Wayne Rooney combined goals and assists 27
Juan Mata combined goals and assists 11
2012-3013
Wayne Rooney combined goals and assists 23
Juan Mata combined goals and assists 24
2011- 2012
Wayne Rooney combined goals and assists 32
Juan Mata combined Goals and assists 19

Wayne Rooney- 82 goals contributed.
Juan Mata -54

Every time Rooney is compared to X player, be it Mata, Aguero, or the twat Suarez, he is constantly referred to as "not as good" but somehow manages to shit all over them when you look at what he actually produces.
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2011/12: Mata only played 25% of his games as a No 10. Plus it was his first season in a new league. Not really comparable at all to Rooney, still Mata did just fine.

2012/13: Here Mata played as a No 10 and got better stats than Rooney in the PL alone. In all comps in that season Mata even got 35 assists AND 19 goals according to transfermarkt, which is just out of this world.

2013/14: Mata rarely played under Mourinho and was mostly played out of position by Moyes and still managed decent stats. Rooney always employed in his favoured role and always playing even when not at his best thanks to Moyes really should have much better stats than Mata considering the way the season went for both players. Nothing impressive about Rooney's stats here.
 
Jacob said:
I disagree, the role of the 10 is pretty much the same for any team, or at least the purpose of it.
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A player just behind the striker can be either a creative force or a second striker who's to create and score.
 
Sigh... Vidal and Sanchez are heading back and still no medical news? Ed, I'm disappointed.
 
septic said:
he's not as good a 9 as RVP and not as good a 10 as Mata, that's why.
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We have had RVP two seasons one sensational one injured and uninterested albeit still a good goal return per games he now 31, Mata we have had half a season and done better than ok. Rooney hits 20 goals every season there about from that position as much as I like Mata I will reserve my judgement on him being better than Rooney. RVP on his day is up there with best in the world but then on his day so is Rooney. Hopefully LVG can find a system where all 3 can play and bring their A game.
 
Lawman said:
We have had RVP two seasons one sensational one injured and uninterested albeit still a good goal return per games he now 31, Mata we have had half a season and done better than ok. Rooney hits 20 goals every season there about from that position as much as I like Mata I will reserve my judgement on him being better than Rooney. RVP on his day is up there with best in the world but then on his day so is Rooney. Hopefully LVG can find a system where all 3 can play and bring their A game.
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This
 
united_99 said:
2011/12: Mata only played 25% of his games as a No 10. Plus it was his first season in a new league. Not really comparable at all to Rooney, still Mata did just fine.

2012/13: Here Mata played as a No 10 and got better stats than Rooney in the PL alone. In all comps in that season Mata even got 35 assists AND 19 goals according to transfermarkt, which is just out of this world.

2013/14: Mata rarely played under Mourinho and was mostly played out of position by Moyes and still managed decent stats. Rooney always employed in his favoured role and always playing even when not at his best thanks to Moyes really should have much better stats than Mata considering the way the season went for both players. Nothing impressive about Rooney's stats here.
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So couldn't get a game because he wasn't rated had to play out of position (like Rooney has to, and dropped like Rooney was for Welbeck season before last).

The stats above are FACTS, no opinions, unmolested records of their league goal and assists output.
 
Has long as one medical dirk Kuyt is not having one, I will be happy. If we want the work rate, why bother resigning valencia to a new contract, or better? just sign de jong, or if we want a bit of both vidal or pogba is your man
 
Ducklegs said:
So couldn't get a game because he wasn't rated had to play out of position (like Rooney has to, and dropped like Rooney was for Welbeck season before last).

The stats above are FACTS, no opinions, unmolested records of their league goal and assists output.
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OK! Stats of 2012/13 are facts as well (actually I didn't really want to point it out as it is a small difference, but as you seem to be Benitez in disguise, then here just for you: your facts for 2012/13 for PL actually favour Rooney (23 to Mata's 24), whereas according to transfermarkt Rooney got 22 and Mata 28! So much for facts.

Anyway noone needs stats to realise that Mata is the better No 10 and RvP the better No 9.
 
united_99 said:
Well, he scored both goals though! That's what counts in the end. If Ronaldo or Rooney had done this (scored 2 important WC goals, or even just the equalizer) ppl here would be singing their praises non-stop.
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united_99 said:
OK! Stats of 2012/13 are facts as well (actually I didn't really want to point it out as it is a small difference, but as you seem to be Benitez in disguise, then here just for you: your facts for 2012/13 for PL actually favour Rooney (23 to Mata's 24), whereas according to transfermarkt Rooney got 22 and Mata 28! So much for facts.

Anyway noone needs stats to realise that Mata is the better No 10 and RvP the better No 9.
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Ducklegs said:
So couldn't get a game because he wasn't rated had to play out of position (like Rooney has to, and dropped like Rooney was for Welbeck season before last).

The stats above are FACTS, no opinions, unmolested records of their league goal and assists output.
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lol
 
united_99 said:
OK! Stats of 2012/13 are facts as well (actually I didn't really want to point it out as it is a small difference, but as you seem to be Benitez in disguise, then here just for you: your facts for 2012/13 for PL actually favour Rooney (23 to Mata's 24), whereas according to transfermarkt Rooney got 22 and Mata 28! So much for facts.

Anyway noone needs stats to realise that Mata is the better No 10 and RvP the better No 9.
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The stats are off http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Combined_2013-14.html.

And as I said in the first post, it's the total of the last 3 seasons.

Rooney has been hugely more productive in the league to the tune of over 20 goals (I haven't included European stats for either player) but apparently isn't as good.

It's nonsense, he's a better player in all aspects of his play.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
lol
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? Where's the contradiction? Players can have good stats AND be generally good even if you discount stats (In this WC for example Neymar, Müller, Sanchez, Robben, etc.).

Then there are players whose stats aren't that good usually but everyone who watched a game can tell that they are levels above almost all other players (Iniesta, Xavi or even Silva for example).

In addition stats in a WC game really aren't comparable to PL. Neymar scoring two crucial goals in a WC game is much more valuable than him or Rooney scoring the same amount of goals in a league game.
 
You cant judge on stats alone. If you were given Iniestas/Zidanes careers stats vs those of Lampard but were not told who they belonged to. Most people would pick Lamps as the better player.
 
united_99 said:
? Where's the contradiction? Players can have good stats AND be generally good even if you discount stats (In this WC for example Neymar, Müller, Sanchez, Robben, etc.).

Then there are players whose stats aren't that good usually but everyone who watched a game can tell that they are levels above almost all other players (Iniesta, Xavi or even Silva for example).
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Don't disagree but do you watch United games, can't keep shifting from one viewpoint to another, Rooney has great stats and makes an immense contribution to the team in many different ways. If you don't like Rooney for whatever reason that's your opinion but I just don't understand this feeling against a player that has been a major part of United's success over the past 10 years. The same would apply to any other United player whether it was Rooney, RVP, Vidic, Ferdinand, Carrick and the list goes on - United fans should be supporting their players not slagging them off. Rooney RVP and Mata are our best attacking players and hopefully LvG will make the most of them together
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Don't disagree but do you watch United games, can't keep shifting from one viewpoint to another, Rooney has great stats and makes an immense contribution to the team in many different ways. If you don't like Rooney for whatever reason that's your opinion but I just don't understand this feeling against a player that has been a major part of United's success over the past 10 years. The same would apply to any other United player whether it was Rooney, RVP, Vidic, Ferdinand, Carrick and the list goes on - United fans should be supporting their players not slagging them off. Rooney RVP and Mata are our best attacking players and hopefully LvG will make the most of them together
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Ah yes, I watch United games. I haven't said Rooney's rubbish, but that's the problem with Rooney fanbois. Just because ppl think Mata is a better No 10 and RvP a better No 9, it doesn't mean that they can't give Rooney credit, but rather you know it could mean that they really believe Mata/RvP being better as 10/9.

Mata/RvP being the better 10/9 has nothing to do with Rooney being successful at United for 10 years, it isn't connected in any way.
 
united_99 said:
Ah yes, I watch United games. I haven't said Rooney's rubbish, but that's the problem with Rooney fanbois. Just because ppl think Mata is a better No 10 and RvP a better No 9, it doesn't mean that they can't give Rooney credit, but rather you know it could mean that they really believe Mata/RvP being better as 10/9.

Mata/RvP being the better 10/9 has nothing to do with Rooney being successful at United for 10 years, it isn't connected in any way.
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OK, but until we know which system LvG will play and how he will fit the players in the system, the talk of no.10's and No.9's is irrelevant, and how many teams actually play with this no.10/9 system apart from on FM. LvG will not play the same system in every game and not use the same players in every match, notwithstanding injuries and suspensions, I'm expecting him to make the most of the talent he has available and adapt the players to the system as much as adapt the system to the players
 
If strootman wasn't injured he would probably already be a Manchester United player. Looked very promising at AS Roma though, would gladly welcome him here, especially if we can't get Vidal.

----------mata------
Strootman------Herrera
 
NMF said:
So unless we plan on selling three midfielders it won't happen. And we other positions that need strengthening as well.
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Anderson & Fletcher can both leave, Fellaini too but you'd have to find someone willing to pay £15m or so. Although I don't think we will, it's not unreasonable to think we might sign 2 more midfielders, especially if one's relatively cheap like De Jong.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
OK, but until we know which system LvG will play and how he will fit the players in the system, the talk of no.10's and No.9's is irrelevant, and how many teams actually play with this no.10/9 system apart from on FM. LvG will not play the same system in every game and not use the same players in every match, notwithstanding injuries and suspensions, I'm expecting him to make the most of the talent he has available and adapt the players to the system as much as adapt the system to the players
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Oh definitely, I also think especially in a 4-3-3 he will try out all of Rooney/Mata/Welbeck/Kagawa and even RvP in different positions and will also have different roles for them depending on the opposition. But sooner or later he will have his preferred starting 11 as well as his preferred formation (ofc subject to change in case of injuries, etc.)
 
Santos J said:
Anderson & Fletcher can both leave, Fellaini too but you'd have to find someone willing to pay £15m or so. Although I don't think we will, it's not unreasonable to think we might sign 2 more midfielders, especially if one's relatively cheap like De Jong.
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Don't get me wrong I'd love for that to happen, just can't see it personally. Anderson is nailed on to leave while Fletcher and Fellaini are possibilities but realistically I can see two sold. Word is United want a big name player for the new sponsors ect.....hence our interest in Vidal/Sanchez so I do hope we go all out for Vidal. But if we could add De Jong as well that would be perfect.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Dirk kuyt?

It would nearly be worth it because of how funny that situation would be
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Anyone hear any more news on Kuyt or De Jong? The Kuyt thread seems to have been locked as he's not an exciting player to discuss.

I for one, would welcome a few tough, hard working players. We looked far too easy to play against at OT last season and the benefit of having a few grafters can be seen in the Dutch national team, unfortunately I think Fletch will never get back to what he was.
 
Have we been linked with Netherland's goalkeeper yet?
 
Raees said:
Its different when as a 10 you have the tactical freedom to drift out wide, you're more unpredictable and you're not marked constantly out wide.

Only proper wingers with serious pace and tricks, players who like to run and take people on the outside as well as in, thrive on the wings. He'd be decent, but you'd take away so much of his game by leaving him on the flanks.

Same goes for Mata, only someone like David Moyes or Roy Hodgson would argue otherwise.
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Agreed. Some of them have been Fergied for far too long. This obsession with wingers hugging touchlines is outdated and irrelevant imo. Wide players now mostly pull out wide to find space and stretch teams, before then moving back infield to exploit whatever space has been created. Rodriguez, Sanchez, Robben, Hazard, Kagawa and Neymar are all proof of this imo. The days of touchline hugging wingers is now gone im afraid, the wide positions now require cleverer thinking and more adaptive movement to get the most from these players.

Rooney is too limited in both his thinking and his movement imo. He lacks the brains and the touch to create space for himself. When he plays centrally, the widemen suffer from his lack of versatility and reluctance to interchange positions. I think we could play Januzaj, Mata and Kagawa behind RVP or Chica, and they could all interchange positions with ease, without being limited to staying out wide as they usually do when Rooney plays central.
 
apotheosis said:
Agreed. Some of them have been Fergied for far too long. This obsession with wingers hugging touchlines is outdated and irrelevant imo. Wide players now mostly pull out wide to find space and stretch teams, before then moving back infield to exploit whatever space has been created. Rodriguez, Sanchez, Robben, Hazard, Kagawa and Neymar are all proof of this imo. The days of touchline hugging wingers is now gone im afraid, the wide positions now require cleverer thinking and more adaptive movement to get the most from these players.

Rooney is too limited in both his thinking and his movement imo. He lacks the brains and the touch to create space for himself. When he plays centrally, the widemen suffer from his lack of versatility and reluctance to interchange positions. I think we could play Januzaj, Mata and Kagawa behind RVP or Chica, and they could all interchange positions with ease, without being limited to staying out wide as they usually do when Rooney plays central.
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I think we got a few outdated wide players, valencia and young defiantly falls into that category. Problem again with janazaj mata and kagwa, there is very little pace with those 3 players. While kagwa and mata I feel we do not need both, just cash in on both kagwa and young, and sign a stellar wide player who can balance out the cleverness of mata and janazaj. United need variety or they will look very one paced with kagwa mata and janazaj, you got to have variety. That is why it is great to have someone outwide who can stretch teams in the ryan giggs fashion, di maria and sanchez would defiantly offer us that different dimension to the united play, as we can get in behind teams.

That is what worked with barca, you had xavi iniesta sergio in midfield clever players, but someone like messi could rip you apart with his acceleration and pace to beat a man. Look at the speed real madrid would hit you with, you got to have driving pace to stretch sides. Even LVG has needed it at holland, with robben's ability to pull sides apart, or teams are going to find it easy to defend against you
 
Oneunited26 said:
I think we got a few outdated wide players, valencia and young defiantly falls into that category. Problem again with janazaj mata and kagwa, there is very little pace with those 3 players. While kagwa and mata I feel we do not need both, just cash in on both kagwa and young, and sign a stellar wide player who can balance out the cleverness of mata and janazaj. United need variety or they will look very one paced with kagwa mata and janazaj, you got to have variety. That is why it is great to have someone outwide who can stretch teams in the ryan giggs fashion, di maria and sanchez would defiantly offer us that different dimension to the united play, as we can get in behind teams.

That is what worked with barca, you had xavi iniesta sergio in midfield clever players, but someone like messi could rip you apart with his acceleration and pace to beat a man. Look at the speed real madrid would hit you with, you got to have driving pace to stretch sides. Even LVG has needed it at holland, with robben's ability to pull sides apart, or teams are going to find it easy to defend against you
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Don't disagree with that thinking. To be clear, i have no problem with touchline wingers, they clearly have a place and when used correctly can be a real thorn in the side of the opposition. What annoys me is when it is claimed players like Mata or Kagawa for instance, have to be played as number 10's or not at all. It's clearly complete rubbish, and is an insult to the players themselves. Utd fans especially get caught up in this type of thinking, after so many years of being accustomed to our winger based 4-4-2. These players need the freedom to move about and find space, then they can use their intelligence to play off each other. Mata may move central then make a run out wide, Kagawa then moves into that space and so on and so forth. We saw exactly that against Newcastle, when Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj played behind Hernandez. Hernandez's runs in behind created the space, and Mata and Kagawa ran riot in the space created, interchanging positions and using intelligent movement to stretch the opposition, irrespective of their lack of pace.

My point is despite Rooney being a very talented player, he just doesn't allow for that type of movement and interchangeability from those around him. He stays central and drops deep and others like Mata have to stay wide or get caught up in his space. The one game where Rooney was not involved Mata and Kagawa were exceptional. It's not to blame rooney, he is what he is, but i do believe having to base the whole teams tactics around him has a detrimental effect on those around him.

We even saw it with England. Rooney plays on the left, and was pretty quiet, but Sturridge Welbeck and Stirling all played very well, interchanging positions and getting involved. Second game Rooney is back in the middle, and while he played slightly better, Sturridge, Stirling and Welbeck were very poor in comparison to the previous game. For me, we have to play a system that gets the best out of all of our players as a unit and not just base it around Rooney. In my view his inclusion is the main reason why all our so called 'widemen' (bar Valencia) seem to suffer regularly from indifferent and inconsistent form.
 
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