he's not as good a 9 as RVP and not as good a 10 as Mata, that's why.
Manchester United transfer news and rumours for summer 2014
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
he's not as good a 9 as RVP and not as good a 10 as Mata, that's why.
There's WC going on? Damn, I need to get of RedCafe.
Probably the same as Young's WC.
He's not even our best striker.
Its different when as a 10 you have the tactical freedom to drift out wide, you're more unpredictable and you're not marked constantly out wide.
Only proper wingers with serious pace and tricks, players who like to run and take people on the outside as well as in, thrive on the wings. He'd be decent, but you'd take away so much of his game by leaving him on the flanks.
Same goes for Mata, only someone like David Moyes or Roy Hodgson would argue otherwise.
I don't understand either, but I don't think he's our best player. He won't be leaving any time soon nor will he play bench-warmer, in my opinion.
It isn't as a number 10 that he drifts though. For Porto he pretty much started as a "winger" every game and drifted in to do his thing. Same way Silva does, he's done it a fair bit for Monaco too, moved centrally when Ocampos started coming in. I never said play him as a traditional winger, doesn't take a genius to work out it'd majorly limit him, only that he does start in that position the majority of the time and as long as there was a direct winger on the other side he'd be fine.
The only way it wouldn't work was if it was Him/Mata/Kagawa or something like that Winger/Mata/Him would be fine, that's what he's played with mostly.
Amazing how in the last three seasons he has contributed to more goals than mata, playing as a number 10.
Mata must be rubbish.
2013-2014
Wayne Rooney combined goals and assists 27
Juan Mata combined goals and assists 11
2012-3013
Wayne Rooney combined goals and assists 23
Juan Mata combined goals and assists 24
2011- 2012
Wayne Rooney combined goals and assists 32
Juan Mata combined Goals and assists 19
Wayne Rooney- 82 goals contributed.
Juan Mata -54
Every time Rooney is compared to X player, be it Mata, Aguero, or the twat Suarez, he is constantly referred to as "not as good" but somehow manages to shit all over them when you look at what he actually produces.
He scores more goals because he's a striker, not an attacking midfielder. These days the number 10 spot is usually awarded to the latter, not the former, because it's a role that brings other players into the game. Rooney doesn't do that as well as Mata.
Rooney would do well up front. He can share the role with RVP as far as I'm concerned.
Rooney would do well up front. He can share the role with RVP as far as I'm concerned.
The anti-Rooney brigade has nothing to do with football, I'm afraid, looking forward to RVP Rooney and Mata all to be fit at the same time and play together which of course they can. Only a year ago Rooney and RVP destroyed the PL opposition together - but reading some on here you would think it was 20 years since we last won the PL
#SomethingWeirdIGoingOn #UnexplainedPhenomena
So how come he has 28 assists in the last two years in PL and CL combined?
If he is striker that can't bring other players into the game. You also might want to check exactly how many of those are from open play before you blame it on free kicks as most ignorant people do.
On the different note, Dirk Kuyt rumor is scary. I don;t think there is much to it, but even the slightest possibility of that really frightens me.
People just let their Rooney dislike colour their output. No way is Rooney being benched unless he's out of form. Come off it.
I think we've now been linked with 13 of the Dutch WC squad, the tabloids have nearly run out of names.
I prefer not to assume what Van Gaal will or won't do with these players. I am sure he has plenty of ideas already.
Rooney was England's best player in the opening two games and he always provides assists and goals as the above statistics demonstrate. Rooney also has some frustrating aspects to his game. He gives the ball away far more cheaply than Mata and doesn't quite have the close ball control but he's also much more physical and industrious than Mata.
We act as though the Mata, Rooney situation is a big problem for us and perhaps that would be true if we were managing Manchester United but in reality, it's a great problem to have for a class manager like Van Gaal.
Rooney was England's best player in the opening two games and he always provides assists and goals as the above statistics demonstrate. Rooney also has some frustrating aspects to his game. He gives the ball away far more cheaply than Mata and doesn't quite have the close ball control but he's also much more physical and industrious than Mata.
We act as though the Mata, Rooney situation is a big problem for us and perhaps that would be true if we were managing Manchester United but in reality, it's a great problem to have for a class manager like Van Gaal.
I really like Rooney but honestly the goals + assists argument is a rather poor one and there are a number of "footballing" reasons to refute the theory. #10s aren't judged by their statistical productivity. Some of the greatest #10s of the last 20 years - Zidane, Laudrup, Riquelme, Iniesta, Rui Costa were rather poor statistically compared to classic second strikers. But their true value was measured in terms of creating space for team-mates, linking the midfield to attack, pulling the opposition out of their zones, drifting between the lines and opening up channels for the #9 who typically carried most of the productivity burden. Not to take sides but I must say Mata is superior in those terms. Rooney + RVP seem almost incompatible at times because their natural instincts are similar as #9s. There's a reason why Wayne was marginalised a bit by the greatest manager of all times upon the signing of RVP. There's a reason why he was dropped from the most crucial fixture of Fergie's last season. Start Wayne as a #9 by all means, that's his best position and he can be a great player at that position. But purely as a #10, Mata is a improvement. The goals+assists myopic scheme is why more a productive midfielder like Lampard (great player in his own right) was favoured over a true footballing genius in Scholes who was much more influential. That said we have no idea what the manager will do. For all one knows Rooney could end up being our main striker (also corresponds with his best position). And honestly having so much quality in RVP, Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, Welbeck, Kagawa competing for 4 positions is a good headache to have for Van Gaal. 
Agreed, I think a coach of Van Gaal's calibre will see the situation as an opportunity and not a problem and I'm looking forward to see how he sets the team up.
Such a simple things that people miss all the time. He doesn't play for us as an attacking midfielder, he plays as a second striker.
Rooney on form will get in any team in the world.
Tell me a team he wouldn't?
Tell me a team he wouldn't?
Quite, thankfully LvG is our manager and not some FM player with their biased opinions
Yes , but that doesn't fit into their FM game with their no.10./ single striker mode
For a tactically astute manager it's not even a problem. I'm reasonably confident that Van Gaal can get them playing at a great level, in the same team and at the same time. Rooney, Mata and Van Persie are versatile, creative, skillful and prolific there is no way they fail to click under a very good manager. And people should desist from thinking that being fielded on the left automatically translates to being asked to play left wing . We have seen Mata, himself, playing on the left/right for Chelsea to great effect, Zidane doing that for Real, Iniesta for Spain, Silva for City, Nasri for Arsenal . It's not a peculiar challenge, managers have been doing it for ages to accommodate more prolific/solid options in the middle.
I just feel that to complete that quartet we need an explosive and prolific top class wideman on the right to bring unpredictability and penetration.
Real Madrid possibly, Barcelona and Bayern Munich definitely. Man United possibly.
Depends on what position, loads of teams have better 10s than Rooney, also 9s for that matter. Assuming Mata and RvP is in top form, Rooney would barely make our own starting XI.
Depends entirely on what you want out of your player in behind the striker though.
Benzema, Mandzukic??
You had morons saying Rooney was our best player when Ronaldo was here, at his peak.
Whatever it is that keeps them saying it, it's clear they can't be persuaded with reason and evidence.
You just have to let them carry on.
Whatever it is that keeps them saying it, it's clear they can't be persuaded with reason and evidence.
You just have to let them carry on.
Benzema, Mandzukic??
This. I'd say Rooney could get into the number 9 role at both Bayern and Real.
Benzema, the guy who has more goals than Rooney on three of the last 4 seasons..Benzema, Mandzukic??
Bayern have now Lewandovski, who probably is the best overall No.9 in the world (or second best No.9 is you consider Messi as a No.9).
I choose those teams because they have better players than Rooney on both positions (9 and 10). As for No.10 position, I think that pretty much every big club (bar Italian clubs) have better players than him there and that is what it matters considering that Rooney will fight for that position, for the main striker Robin is untouchable.
Ronaldo was our best player at his peak time here although he has improved since he left, the ARB doesn't have to be insulting and what is the evidence and reason.
More like Lewandowski.Benzema, Mandzukic??
Mata is better with the ball under pressure, better vision, better passing, can go past players and those are the skills which a number 10 needs.
Too bad football isn't just based on stats. Stats don't tell you what a player doesn't do, only what he does. Stats don't tell you when Rooney has one of those games were every touch he takes is almost a pass and then still ends up scoring 2 goals. Mata is the better number 10 and RVP is the better number 9, now if you can't see that I won't try to convince you.
Last edited:
Depends on the opposition, we play with 2 strikers till now, not playing FM
Robin is untouchable, what!!! Have absolutely nothing against RVP either , but???
And before you say but single striker, number 10's bla bla bla , how many teams have won the PL in the last 8 years using this system
I disagree, the role of the 10 is pretty much the same for any team, or at least the purpose of it.
We may play with two strikers, but I wouldn't bet on it. When has Van Gaal ever played with 2 strikers (No.9)? I don't remember.
And yes Robin is untouchable, he is an another level to Rooney, he knows Van Gaal well and is his captain in the national side. Unless Robin gets injured or does a Torres he'll start as our main striker. Rooney and Mata (and who knows, possibly Kagawa too) will fight for the No.10 positions. And unlike Moyes, Van Gaal has bollocks to bench Rooney when he plays like shit (like he did on the second half of last season). On the other side, if he plays like he did on the first half of the season (or the second half of 2010-2011) that position will be his own.
Bayern is probably the only one now that they'v signed Lewandowski
Has there been a "van Gaal linked with signing van Gaal" story yet? These "journalists" are so bad they should be writing on RAWK.
Rooney's efficiency is damn right ridiculous. Be it the #10, or the #9 he always delivers with goals and assists. Always. What he lacks in ball control, short passing and guile that Mata has, he makes up for with long passing, physical strength and shooting technique. I'd say they bring very different things to the table but are very equal in terms of that role. Similar to RvP, imo. RvP is a better striker and is more gifted technically, but Rooney would still bag a shed load of goals for you upfront and offers different elements. People have just lost sight a little of how good Rooney is.
I thought we were talking about the past, now the future, let's see what LvG comes up with, if he puts Kagawa ahead of Rooney then we have got problems. Rooney top-rated United outfield player last season, top scorer last season . It's not as if Rooney is my favourite player but this irrational battering is incredible.
- Rooney never played as a CAM like Mata pre 2013-2014. So its completely useless to link his stats of 2011, 12 and 13. Where he often played like a striker.
- There are more things to football then pure assists and goals. Care to show Rooney's amazing chance creation and passing? (and the funny thing is, his chance creation is only "normal" even with him taking all corners, penalties and free kicks.
- Rooney's playtime is far superior that of Mata
- Rooney plays at United a team which has a "lets score more then you mentality" for the past years. Chelsea is very defensive. Do you find it weird Rooney scored more?
And to the guy saying "why is he left out hes our best player". If you really think that then you are pure ignorant.