inflation and hindsight eh?
Manchester United Sign Anthony Martial!
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
- Start date
- Status
inflation and hindsight eh?
Because, it is a giant figure.
We payed 50m euros for a teenager. There are four scenarios here:
a) We pay only 50m euros, which means that Martial is a complete failure (Anderson's level).
b) We pay 70m euros but Martial never becomes a great player. More like just a decent/good player. Scoring 25 goals and making 25 appearances isn't that difficult. For comparison, in first 4 seasons for United, Nani scored 26 goals for United and made 33 appearances for Portugal. Welbeck scored 24 goals for United in his first three senior seasons here and made 25+ appearances for England. So, even if Martial becomes just as good as Nani/Welbeck, we will pay 70m euros.
c) We pay 70m euros and Martial becomes a very good player. Probably not the best around, but lets say Hazard/Reus level.
d) We pay 80m euros and Martial becomes the best in the world.
I think that (a) and (d) are unlikely. (b) and (c) have the most likelihood, and I hope we get (c). (d) is obviously the best scenario, while (a) is catastrophic. (b) on the other hand would mean that we have overpayed 20-30m pounds for him.
Regardless of that, no option allows to pay only 30m euros (22m pounds) which you are mentioning.
If Martial breaks his legs tomorrow and never plays again, we'll still end up paying 36m.
Martial's initial fee is 36M£ (Negotiated in euro so 50 M euros) :
+ 7,35M£ (10M euros) If he plays more than 25 games (I don't know what means a game, if he plays full games or 1 minute)
+ 7,35M£ (10M euros) The moment he will reach the 10 caps with French National team (He can play twice this week for France)
+ 7,35M£ (10M euros) If he finishes in the top 20 of the Ballon d'or in the next 4 years.
Two things on the fee only.
Euro has dropped very deep recently meaning that the exchange rates are in favor of British when it comes to change. Unfortunately, all has been done in Euro and then converted in £
The initial fee for him was a bit overated to me. I won't throw a sum just to put one, but I guess that for 30M£ I would say ok. The bug here, are the two easy bonuses that will be given at Monaco. This is very reachable by Martial, meaning that the REAL fee paid by United for him would be 50M£
+ 7,35M£ (10M euros) If he plays more than 25 games (I don't know what means a game, if he plays full games or 1 minute)
+ 7,35M£ (10M euros) The moment he will reach the 10 caps with French National team (He can play twice this week for France)
+ 7,35M£ (10M euros) If he finishes in the top 20 of the Ballon d'or in the next 4 years.
Two things on the fee only.
Euro has dropped very deep recently meaning that the exchange rates are in favor of British when it comes to change. Unfortunately, all has been done in Euro and then converted in £
The initial fee for him was a bit overated to me. I won't throw a sum just to put one, but I guess that for 30M£ I would say ok. The bug here, are the two easy bonuses that will be given at Monaco. This is very reachable by Martial, meaning that the REAL fee paid by United for him would be 50M£
What narrative? That we payed a lot of money for a very young player? Why should be fight this narrative if it's the truth though? No need to being dishonest about it.
If you want to combat a narrative here than it's those people's narrative who, without actually knowing anything about the player, say we massively overpaid for him and he will flop. I don't think we would have ever considered paying that amount of money for a player we didn't believe to be something really special. The narrative that Woody, our Scouting team and LvG are idiots who get robbed at every corner, can't tell apart their ass from their face and get sold shit for gold is a narrative that annoys me just as much as most people on here, if you want to fight against something than this might be a worthier battleground.
That's another new source for bonus addons. 25 games for United? Just 10 caps for France? And top 20, not actually winning Ballon d'Or?
What I think is that I don't know how the contact between United and Monaco has been regarding the transfer, how long Martial has been on United's radar and I can't recall ever seeing Martial play. So until I've actually seen him play for us long enough to make an opinion, I personally will keep an open mind regarding this transfer.
Very true! And when we read how pedro was being talked about for so long and suddenly he joined Chelsea and in his own words that it took too long (man united putting forth £20m) and then Jose personally talked to him enticing him to join Chelsea.
What he said:
"I saw that things weren't progressing with Man United. It was taking time and I needed to get started with a team. Chelsea were the most determined."
No one is against signing of a promising teenager but the price tag is way too high. (Also note Monaco bought him from Lyon for €5m two years ago)
Panic buy indeed!
I honestly don't get the obsession with the cost of this lad if I'm honest - it's not as though the club can't afford to take a punt now and again!
If he injects some pace to the team and means that we don't look quite so much like those old Geezers wondering about the pitch in the Barclays Digital Eagles ad, then it'll be money well spent!
If he injects some pace to the team and means that we don't look quite so much like those old Geezers wondering about the pitch in the Barclays Digital Eagles ad, then it'll be money well spent!
Who is being dishonest? We paid 22 million initially and 36 million in total for a highly rated teenager. We paid 12 million in 2003 for Ronaldo up front which is 18 million in todays money. Going by the way money in football is it isnt that huge of a deal. Neymar went for 57 million euros at the age of 20 in 2013 by the way and nobody flinched about that.
Source?
So far, the initial version looks:
- 5m if he wins Golden Boy
- 5m each times he finishes EPL top scorer, for a max. of 15m
- 10m if he wins the Ballon D'Or.
Looked quite unlikely that this is the case, cause it was structured to be completely in United's favour.
What you are saying is a pretty much guaranteed 70m even if Martial completely fails, and 80m even if Martial reaches just Nani's level. If that is the case, Ed needs fired.
The most balanced scenario looks:
- 10m if he scores 25 goals for United
- 10m if he makes 25 caps for France
- 10m if he wins Ballon D'Or.
That basically means 70m if Martian becomes decent, 50m if he is a failure and 80m if he becomes best in the world.
Fair, mate. I don't think anyone is questioning us getting the player, we needed to. Always good to get exciting young talent in the mix too, that's how United have always done business.
The debate right now is about the price we paid; which is excessive, imo.
Hummels, Reus, Griezmann off the top of my head. Several ones I probably can't think of atm, not to mention the "older" WC players which I didn't include because of their age. (for example I'm pretty sure PSG would let Ibra go for that kind of money, and he's definitely world class, but one would be stupid to actualy bid that much money for a player who's only going to decline)
Can people stop quoting the fee in Euros as to make the transfer seem more expensive than it is?
Thanks
Thanks
Transfer will be worthy the same regardless we talk in pounds or euros. 
This keeps changing by the minute. And in the direction where the add-ons are in Monaco's favor.
Dont be silly, theres a point to be hammered home.
Where are all the new fee breakdowns coming from? The original one was from the source that broke the news in the first place so is trustworthy, did they update it or something?
Nope. 20m guaranteed euros and 30m euros in add ons. The exchange rate isn't always the same. At the moment that would be 36m pounds, but last year it would have been over 40m pounds. It depends a lot on the exchange rate how will be the final sum.Transfer will be worthy the same regardless we talk in pounds or euros.
The transfer was done in euros, so if it achieves full potential (80m euros) in pounds can be anything from 55m to 65+m pounds.
How can you already conclude the amount is excessive with him still even having to make his debut? If over the next 5 years Martial is very succesful the fee might even be considered a bargain by some.
In my opinion 36M even for Messi is excessive, but that's a different subject altogether.
why, does it bother you?
RMC, the media that broke the story first
RMC gave the first version (Golden Boy, Ballon D'Or and 3 times top scorer) initially.
I'm pretty sure United covert the money they spend to a more stable currency when negotiating international transfer fees.
if the Euro collapses tomorrow due to a few countries defaulting, United wouldn't get away with paying Monaco pennies for Martial
Tell you what I am looking forward to - Thierry Henry's post match analysis of Martial, given the parallels that have been drawn. Who better to comment on him!?
What the feck is the Golden Boy award? is that meant to be the clubs own Player of the Year? of PFA?
It's the youth version of the Ballon d'Or. It was created by Tuttosport.
By that logic we can only debate the transfer fee of a player after he has played a good number of years for us. Fair enough if that's how you judge transfers, I don't subscribe to that view.
All though valuing a player is a bit of an ambiguous concept, there are enough date points available to judge a transfer fee, especially for someone who is a 19 year old unproven youngster from the French league.
It might be a lot in euros but we don't work in Euros. That's our advantage. That's one of the main reasons we can go so high.
When people solely reference Euros they take away that huge advantage. Would we have gone to 50m euros in 2009 when the exchange rate was much closer?
Probably not.
That's the huge advantage that we have
Thanks for that my friend.
I can confirm. Unfortunately it is true. Just saw a radio show on that, a guy said it there, but not the journo breaking the story
That might be true. Dollars, I guess?
I had the impression that it was in euro cause it makes more sense.
Compare:
30m + 20m + 3*10m = 80m euro to
21.9m + 14.6m + 3 * 7.3m = 57.4m pounds
The numbers in euros are integers and make more sense than the decimals in pounds.
We've commited 100% to paying Monaco £36m for the transfer. What's so hard to understand for some people?!
I don't care how much we have paid. If he flops we'd still get £15mill for him resale and we won't pay the clauses to make the transfer £56mill. It could be like Andy Carrol or Shevchenko. Shit happens.
I however believe we have signed an incredible talent and will become a huge player for us in a couple of years. Im delighted. Who cares what we paid - the club makes an extortionate amount of money now. We need to spend it one way or another.
I don't care how much we have paid. If he flops we'd still get £15mill for him resale and we won't pay the clauses to make the transfer £56mill. It could be like Andy Carrol or Shevchenko. Shit happens.
I however believe we have signed an incredible talent and will become a huge player for us in a couple of years. Im delighted. Who cares what we paid - the club makes an extortionate amount of money now. We need to spend it one way or another.
Best young player.
Some of the previous winners became great: Messi, Rooney, Aguero, Cesc, Pogba. Some failed like Anderson, Balotelli or Pato and some were in between (Van Der Vaart).
Thanks for that information.
It's only €80 million if he wins the Ballon D'or amongst other things. If we pay €80 million for him it will be a bargain. You'd swear the way some people are going on we are paying that up front when in reality it's only £21 million now.
if he's had a good number of games, or even if we had known about him before the transfer, then I think it would be fair to judge. But none of us know anything about him. So I think it is sensible to wait until making an opinion. Keeping an open mind.
25 goals ...
- Status