What's his history?
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
His history is of someone who has overseen the development of players, coaches and football departments on the structural side of the club. And from what I've personally read about him (shared on here), he's been doing this work as a head of development since 2004.
Now I can't predict the future but I can look back at his past and come to the conclusion that it's a natural progression for someone from his back ground to be a Sporting director at first team level. A lot of the Sporting directors have followed a similar career path before becoming the head of football operations at their respective clubs.
If we were doing well no one would really care about his role, as it is we are basically a luxury Everton so people are understandably trying to find someone to blame
I think it's because he is typical of a nostalgia/nepostism/yes man approach the club has taken since fergie left. It has worked out terribly
He also appears to be having a go at multiple jobs rather than doing the job he has been hired for, and isn't really qualified for
Except no of them are sat on the bench barking orders at players
You mean Ten Hag? I feel fan sentiment had as much to do with that as anything else. I also feel Rangnick was completely ignored during the transfer window.
Im not talking about the transfer window as much. Disagree on fan sentiment, the media and polling happened after leaks of Ten Hag being preferred by Rangnick.
“Temporarily”…4 more games and he will revert back to his role.
But let’s not slag Darren off for helping out the club after Carrick and McKenna resigned following Ole’s sacking.
Well I certainly hope so, because that would represent a very positive step forward.
Actually you're wrong and people in a similar role do bark orders from the bench. And those people are Sebastian Kehl at Dortmund and the former Sporting director of Gladbach, Max Eberl, who has been red carded from the technical area.
He gave a 80m offer on Maguire to the foxes and 180Kp/w - that a literal crime
People also might not know this, but the Glazers have also got a very prominent person consulting them. And that person is Mike Forde who runs a organisation (Sportsology) that helps clubs/sports teams, create high performance cultures at the elite level. He was at Chelsea between 2007 & 2013, and the club was very successful during that period.
https://sportsology.pro/our-team/
And I did a bit of a online search to learn more about Forde, and learnt that both Forde and Murtough worked together before Murtough was brought to United by David Moyes.
https://sportsology.pro/our-team/
And I did a bit of a online search to learn more about Forde, and learnt that both Forde and Murtough worked together before Murtough was brought to United by David Moyes.
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Going by the downfall in team’s performance since he joined, he needs to be kicked out pronto.
We got to a European final and finished second in the league soon after he was appointed. Maybe both were thanks to him.
The rot really set in after we sold Dan James.
Quite impressed by this Murtogh coup d'etat. He must have some serious clout and looking forward to see how he structures us going forward.
Interesting point. He was likely the glue that held the dressing room together.
The team fell apart both on and off the field when he was sold. Obvious really.
Not exactly the most prestigious list. Regardless I would expect Fletcher not to be doing that next season if he is no longer going to be 'helping out' as a coach.
Fletcher is undoubtedly not to blame for many of the clubs problems but he is another example of a jobs for the boys approach that pervades the club
Seems like Arnold's given him the reigns now to overhaul our structure, and he's got on with it promptly.
He also hasn't got the shackles of a manager already in place at the club, so he doesn't have to tread on shells. I think that's the biggest advantage of having an interim like Rangnick.
He also hasn't got the shackles of a manager already in place at the club, so he doesn't have to tread on shells. I think that's the biggest advantage of having an interim like Rangnick.
I can kinda buy Fletcher's role. I think he can be useful if he's there to help with man management.
In an ideal world you want ETH or any head coach we hire to be fully focussed on training and matchday stuff. Take all the other distractions away from them like contract situations, recruitment etc.
In an ideal world you want ETH or any head coach we hire to be fully focussed on training and matchday stuff. Take all the other distractions away from them like contract situations, recruitment etc.
This narrative is so frustrating. A very good amount of the most highly rated DoFs in football were hired pretty much straight after retiring as a footballer. That’s a far higher position than he has.
Fletcher’s remit in his role as Technical Director is mostly to ensure there are pathways both in communication and player movement between the Academy and the first team - something that when Jose was there didn’t exist at all according to Rooney. He does have some say over the football structure - he was one of the decision makers in getting Ten Hag and it was well reported Varane signed due to Fletcher’s pitch. But his role is slightly overstated. We will see in a few years how many academy players are actually being used, but it’s not a role that has dramatically altered the fortunes of the club in the way that people seem to be blaming him for our misfortunes.
Also this Jobs for the boys thing also seems overplayed. Ole was hired after an incredible run that made it hard not to hire him, he’s now gone. He brought in Phelan, who will probably leave. Carrick was made a coach by Jose, he’s now gone. Nicky Butt oversaw the academy, he’s now gone. The banker triumvirate of Woodward, Judge and Arnold is now down to just one. So really it’s just Fletcher who’s around and for all intents and purposes he may be good at his job.
Is Bayern Munich prestgious enough for you?
Most of the the people hired have been from outside of the club, which includes John Murtough. Fletcher is the only noticeable appointment that has links to the club as a former player, and even his role isn't significant at first team level.
Not sure what you are talking about on the jobs for the boys comment. Our current CEO is in the job because he was mates with the last one and ed was in the job because he was the glazers financier for the purchase of the club. Judge has gone because he decided to leave not because the club have changed approach and we don't know who his replacement will be. Murtough was promoted into his role seemingly without any real recruitment process. That's basically all the key management roles at the club.
In terms of ole, his run of good results had ended before we hired him and was sacked months after we had become a complete joke. His whole coaching team was internally promoted. Then there's also phelan
If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend we are run competently then you can do but you will be lying to yourself. It's going to take a lot to restore us to being competitive and to do that we need the right people in important roles in the club and I am still not convinced we do. The only people who seem to be convinced we do are a few people on here
Murtough done a fantastic job on the womans team/ academy, and is certainly making the right moves so far, will be a few years before we see the proper results but if it comes off and we're successful again he'll be up there with the most important appointments in the clubs history, a lot of work to be done before that's even a possibility but the signs are more than good at the moment. IF we get the recruitment right this summer I'll begin to properly believe.
Thank god someone has the gall to read rather than mouth off and continue stupid narratives. Absolutely spot on, he’s technical director in name only. The club did him no favours calling him that
It’s from people making comments like this that Fletcher felt that he had to come out and clarify what he does.
his job is ensuring the pathway for kids to first team, advising who is ready, looking after loans etc.
Plus helping sell the club to potential recruits as @Adnan said
Coaching he was asked to help out when carrick and McKenna left. Ralf had 2 who have no experience this side of the water.
as for his title he’s TD in name only. People pay too much attention to that. The club should have given him a different job title since our fans seemingly can’t get past a job title
Can we save this post and repeat it every time someone posts in this thread please.
I mean the issue is Technical Director is such a nebulous job title. Some see it as the same as a sporting director others see it as basically watch Fletcher does.
Cech at chelsea who’s their technical advisor (but they haven’t had a technical director since he’s been in the role so he is their iPod facto TD) has a very similar role ‘The focus of the job will be to provide advice on all football and performance matters throughout the club as well as embed and facilitate strong links between our men’s and academy teams, ensuring that the various support departments are working together effectively.’
You don’t see chelsea fans shitting themselves over his role.
If I've said it once I've said it a million times, but Woodward was one of the most single most damaging men in our club's history. We should thank the Gods for the Super League fiasco because otherwise he'd still be here lording over everything.
Mate speaking sense here isn't gonna get you anywhere.
People on here have become so disenchanted with our current state that they will blame anything remotely related to the previous regime, forgetting it wasn't all terrible the last few years.
Half the people here have no idea what the exact role descriptions are for are executive staff and yet still celebrate when someone is fired or when a new guy comes in. I can understand to an extent, that they believe that since changing managers and players hasn't taken us back to our previous heights, a change in the executive structure will do that. It is a naive belief because an organisation's success is never dependant on a few appointments, there are loads of factors, some of which can be out of our hands.
But at this point, our fanbase is so disillusioned with everything about the club, that it is not possible to make them understand that not everything the club has done the past few years is wrong. Once we become successful again, then in hindsight people will realise that the period from 2019-21 wasn't all doom and gloom, but until then it's not worth arguing over.
I agree mate.
But it all stems from a false sense of security that came about from the stability provided on the football side of the club for decades by the genius of the great man Fergie. So the club thought they'd be able to replicate the same with other managers but unfortunately for us it didn't seem like they (the board) had contingency plans in the event the manager loses his job. And when the managers did lose their job at the club, the footballing decisions at first team level fell on Woodward and unfortunately for us various different agents thereafter took advantage.
It's very important in the game today to have a buffer (DoF) between the board and head coach. And unfortunately for us we didn't have that for a long time.
I know its temporary, but Ralfs staff is like a scene from Ted Lasso. Literally.
The whole set up reeks of amateurism.
Woodward wasn't just the financier, he was the brains behind the takeover and how the Glazers would go about exploiting United's brand. Malcom Glazer brought him over soon after the takeover because he was the mastermind and he knew the score.
Arnold is an established business executive in his own right, his record was posted on here and has been involved in senior management since the mid 90s. He came here and succeeded Woodward as Head of the Commercial Department and has been MD for a number of years at the club. No one would bat an eyelid if a guy with his CV and reputation got a senior role anywhere in business.
Its not like all other clubs are ran by former players, coaches and scouts. Pretty much every football club has a suit as CEO, even VDS had to get a business degree and work in marketing at Ajax. Another crucial factor is that both Woodward and Arnold had/have the Glazers' complete trust which enables them to push through changes, get spending approved etc but its just that Woodward wasn't aware of his limitations with regard to football and went a bit too far. Hopefully Arnold doesn't get his fingers burnt by giving Murtough autonomy to run football operations.
Murtough himself is highly rated and properly experienced for the role. Brought in by Moyes to rearrange our youth set up and having done the same for Everton and occupied a senior role at the Premier League before. He has come in and restructured our youth set up and, even though I was one of the proponents for an external appointment like Rangnick, I doubt there are many more people better prepared for the role than him.
As for Fletcher, I suspect that he is being groomed for a more important role but being a former player who happens to have a strong work ethic he has been indentified by those within the club as someone who can help. There are lot of intangibles within a football team such as culture, work ethic, unity etc that a former pro can help identify and foster.
And as has been said before, almost all clubs appoint a TD or DoF from within because its such a niche role reliant on one's ability to manage internal politics between what the coach wants and what the powers that be will grant. The delicate nature of this role makes it easier for established internal oparatives to navigate better.
Good post
On Arnold, he might have a decent CV but it's not exactly a coincidence that he was already a very good friend of eds. That doesn't exactly speak to a process focussed on finding the best person for the job. Also the job of running a sporting team is different to a job in finance.
With murtough, he may well he highly rated within the club but I suspect outside the club he doesn't quite have the same standing. If he were to leave the club I wonder where he would end up? He has been promoted a couple of times since joining the club and if we had better people making decisions at the top of the club it might be possible to have more confidence in the fact he deserved the promotion
Coaches run sports teams, executives run companies. Countless people get opportunities because of they know but to actually get the interview and the job you have to meet the specifications set. Arnold and Woodward met those, Woodward didnt appreciate that he needed more help to run a company that owns a sports team which would enable him to appoint a better coach.
David Gill wasn't a genius, he had a genius running the team for him and guess what was his qualification? He was a CA, just like Woodward and Arnold after him. The guys looking good at Liverpool wouldn't be if they didnt land Klopp.
Murtough has already occupied a senior role at a different and bigger organization that United, the English Premier League. Thats how highly rated he was then.
The best person for the job is the person who allows the football people to run the football side of the club. It's not rocket science.
Why do Bayern hire ex players as Sporting directors and not someone like Rangnick who is a fellow German? Surely they would want the best in class. The truth is that most big clubs appoint from within the club and DoFs like Rangnick come to prominence at financially doped up clubs like Hoffenheim and the RedBull clubs who were financed by billionaires Dietmar Hopp and Dietrich Mateschitz. And then Rangnick ended up in Russia. All the below clubs hired people associated with their clubs as the Sporting directors, and that is a reality.
Two biggest clubs in Germany - Bayern (Salhamidzic)/BvB (Zorc)
Two biggest clubs in Spain - Real Madrid and Barcelona are littered with former players in various different roles throughout the club.
Ajax who are a big name in European football, are littered with ex players throughout their club.
And I can go on but i'll leave it that, and would highly recommend people to research how a DoF model works from the DoF, to the head of recruitment, to the head of region, to the lead scouts on the ground and the involvement of data analytics. And in England we've adopted the German model according to Dan Ashworth, and learning about the German approach to structuring football clubs is important to understand what the remit of a Sporting director is in England.
From what I read on here, it seems people think a DoF arrives with a magic wand and a WhatsApp group full of contacts that will help him sign players. It doesn't work like that and the process is a lot more thorough and detailed with a big group of people working together as one team. And it's equally important to understand who the big players beneath the Sporting director are when it comes to identifying talent. Because it'll be the judgement of those people that the Sporting director will have to rely on.
I don’t think Gill wasn’t THAT great for us personally in hindsight. I’ve wondered whether his coincidental retirement synchronised with SAF was actually done on purpose because he didn’t want to be badly exposed.
Good summary of the Organization Structure.