Manchester United - January Ins and Outs

I feel our next midfield signing will come from the French league.

Hoping for that Corentin Tolisso guy.

Also heard great stuff about Bakayoko the DM from Monaco.
 
Whoever the #6 signing is, he needs to be an excellent passer - a proper Kapellmeister. That'll bring out the best in Pogba (in that he can then focus on attacking the final third), as well as Herrera (who can then go box to box and press the opposition vertically, without having to play a big part in the initial passing phase). You can already see that functionally, Carrick + Pogba + Ander is beautifully balanced (like Pirlo + Pogba + Vidal was for Juventus). So the likes of Bakayoko or Dier (primarily standard 'defensive midfielders') make little sense, or any other #6 who who isn't a holder/playmaker type (think Alonso, and not Mascherano), for that matter - and I really hope Mourinho sees things that way, too. It's doubly importance because with Pogba's signing, you limited the scope of a passing master type #10 (in a team that's already short on technical passing ability), and you don't have a reliable and creative transition link from defense to midfield to attack - starting with the first choice central duo of Bailly and Smalling, hence the oft disjointed nature of our play, and the reason why Carrick magically 'makes everyone play better' when he starts with his eye for the pass and positional awareness.
 
Invictus said:
Whoever the #6 signing is, he needs to be an excellent passer - a proper Kapellmeister. That'll bring out the best in Pogba (in that he can then focus on attacking the final third), as well as Herrera (who can then go box to box and press the opposition vertically, without having to play a big part in the initial passing phase). You can already see that functionally, Carrick + Pogba + Ander is beautifully balanced (like Pirlo + Pogba + Vidal was for Juventus). So the likes of Bakayoko or Dier (primarily standard 'defensive midfielders') make little sense, or any other #6 who who isn't a holder/playmaker type (think Alonso, and not Mascherano), for that matter - and I really hope Mourinho sees things that way, too. It's doubly importance because with Pogba's signing, you limited the scope of a passing master type #10 (in a team that's already short on technical passing ability), and you don't have a reliable and creative transition link from defense to midfield to attack - starting with the first choice central duo of Bailly and Smalling, hence the oft disjointed nature of our play, and the reason why Carrick magically 'makes everyone play better' when he starts with his eye for the pass and positional awareness.
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Not sure that ideal #6 exists today, I sure don't know about anyone.

Tolisso, Herrera and Pogba in a midfield three would certainly give us a lot of agression and mobility though, Tolisso got that buzzard-like quality that Herrera also has.

Disclaimer: Seen him twice, the rest comes from the scouts most important tool - YouTube.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Not sure that ideal #6 exists today, I sure don't know about anyone.
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I think they do. We just have to bid for the right ones. Weigl is the most obvious choice with his composure and tactical discipline and passing range. A bit more unrealistic, but Verratti is someone who absolutely has the skillset to be an elite holding midfielder, and has already played that role with Rabiot + Matuidi just ahead of him. Paredes from Roma, Trigueros from Villarreal, Llorente - who's on loan from Madrid, young Locatelli at Milan (might be a bit too early for him, though), potentially Neves. Then there are players who can be converted (Koke, maybe Goretzka, and Dahoud - who has the potential to transition from attacking midfield, ditto Óliver). United's scouting department just needs to take a deeper look at the options with that specific profile in mind if the obvious ones can't be signed.
SwansonsTache said:
Tolisso, Herrera and Pogba in a midfield three would certainly give us a lot of agression and mobility though, Tolisso got that buzzard-like quality that Herrera also has.
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That's the thing, though - ideally, you need to have a broad spectrum of qualities between the trio. We have enough mobility with Pogba + Ander (especially in offense). So that range of skillset is covered. What you need now is someone who can bring composure and creativity to our passing, 'conduct' things, and become the primary brain to Ander's buzzard-like quality and aggressiveness. We often tend to lose our coherence when Carrick is not on the field, and that needs to be addressed, above all else. Pure defensive quality is a secondary concern, because good holding midfielders can stem the flow of opposition attacks with their positioning, as opposed to physicality or aggression.

If you look at the elite European clubs, they all have atleast 1 excellent passer of the ball (apart from Atlético where the wide midfielders tuck in under Simeone to compensate for it):

Madrid: Modrić + Kroos
Barcelona: Iniesta + Busquets
Bayern: Thiago + Alonso (when he starts)
Juventus: Pjanić

And so forth. We currently have zero of that sort when Carrick is out (Ander a good passer, but not someone who can impose his will on the game in that department).

Even at Madrid and Chelsea, Mourinho had Alonso and Cesc (more advanced, but similar in terms of function) who got 100 touches per match and helped open the game up with their passing ability. Having someone with that quality is priceless: no amount of aggression or mobility will make up for it, and United fans should be aware of that given our history with the likes of Scholes as the deep lying playmaker when he aged, and the understated effectiveness of Carrick - who subsequently took on the mantle of our passer/playmaker in chief:

 
We badly need a striker if Ibra hasn't woken up by then. Yeah he's helping creating chances with great link-up play, but what's the point in that if you can hit the back of the net afterwards?
Also if Bailly is going to be out for a while for one reason or another and Smalling, Blind and Rojo are going to remain suicidal then we probably also need a new CB too.
 
CM10 said:
@devilish I don't really follow the point about the midfield. Okay, there's been some disappointments and players who didn't work out in the way we hoped but many of the players you've listed there were hardly considered world-beaters (or even central midfielders, in some cases) when they joined the club.

I'm not sure what Drinkwater is supposed to solve in that regard. You claim he knows the club inside out but he has actually spent a very minimal part of his senior career at United, I'm not even sure he made a first-team appearance for us. Again, if you think average first teamers is a massive issue, why contribute to that further?

Signing a player on the basis that they'll give 100% is not justification for bringing them in either. I'm sure Rojo and Fellaini try their best for us too but they'll never be key players for us because they're fundamentally shit. I agree with the idea that we don't need to sign galacticos in every position and that it can actually be harmful in some ways if we do, but we do need to maintain some kind of standard or else we'll drift further and further away from the top.
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If you ask me, I think that we lack quality both at first team level and in terms of quality strength in depth. Considering that its almost impossible to add top quality in January, then we should at least bring players who

a- Are natural in their roles and have the characteristics they need to give a positive contribution to the team. Michael Keane is a much better option then Rojo and Jones. Drinkwater is a far better DM then Failini

b- Players who have an idea of how we play and would settle down quickly

If they exceed expectations then great, we would have 2 homegrown top quality first teamers who will be extremely loyal to us. If not, then we’ll bring quality to our strength in depth. I mean, can they be worse then Rojo/Blind/Jones as CB and Fellaini as DM?
 
RooneyLegend said:
Tielemans, Van Djik and Kovacic
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Need players who are ready and not 3 year investments. Van djik is decent but we should be aiming higher.
If we can, we should try and get an experienced center half someone who gets injured less and can be relied upon to give consistent 7/10 performances for the club. We also need a right full back who can attack and defend. Valencia has done well but he is 31 now and will need replacing. Darmian can be a good player but right now there are question marks over him. I think we need a right back and center half (atl east one if we dont sell anyone maybe 2 if we do). That should be the first priority, then we should look further. It is imperative to have a great defense to have a good league season. The defense will form a good basis for a better attack as if players are not worried about conceding only then can they trully attack without inhibtion.
 
Instead of buying players with big money who are stars in there current team. We need to identify proper Manchester united players with the correct mentality to succeed here. We need the sort of signings of Vidic, Evra, Park, Valencia. Players who are of a good quality but have the will to win games. Obviously this is all easier said than done but we need a change from the current regime of signing star players for big money who ultimately flop once the pressure gets to much.
 
BBer13 said:
Instead of buying players with big money who are stars in there current team. We need to identify proper Manchester united players with the correct mentality to succeed here. We need the sort of signings of Vidic, Evra, Park, Valencia. Players who are of a good quality but have the will to win games. Obviously this is all easier said than done but we need a change from the current regime of signing star players for big money who ultimately flop once the pressure gets to much.
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This exactly.
 
devilish said:
Jeez this will be long to explain

I am not the kind of person to get carried away with big name signings. Maybe its because I grew up in a country were around half of the people supported the Serie A clubs, a league which was, back then, far richer then the EPL. I used to dread reading the gazzetta dello sport because I feared seeing United linked to a Serie A player which most probably we couldn't afford to buy (ex Batistuta) or worst to see Serie A clubs linked to our stars. The taunts of us selling Ince to Inter or failing to match Fiorentina's salary for Batigol weren't nice

That changed with us signing JSV. JSV wasn't only the second most rated attacking midfielder in the world (second only to Zidane) but it was a signing that made sense. JSV was a continental playmaker who knew how to dictate tempo and was extremely technical. With Keane at his back, Beckham and Giggs on the flanks and Scholes partnering RVN I couldn't see anyone capable of taking us on. Till this very day I couldn't understand what went wrong. That team should have knocked the shit out of everybody. What we do know is that JSV complained that United played 'differently' and certain things he's been asked to do (ex tackling) were unreasonable. No regista should do that.

Time had moved on till then but time and time again our CM had rejected foreign talent. Some were clearly not good enough. I wonder what SAF was drinking when he signed Djemba Djemba. However some were quite rated at the time. Kleberson was a Brazilian international regular while Ando came with a big reputation. Even to this day foreign midfielders seem to struggle. Bastian, Fellaini, Schneiderlin, Blind and Mata had all failed in CM. TBF Herrera is starting to show a glimpse of his talent but he's nowhere near to what he was at Bilbao and I dare to say that Fletcher (who had 1/3 of Herrera's talent) was a more effective player for us then he is. I cant pinpoint why all this is happening. However I cant help remembering what JSV said and he knows one or two about the midfield

Returning to present time I think that we've got two massive issues

a- Some of our first teamers are clearly not good enough. Mou had tackled some of the issues (Bailly had done well as CB, Pogba may yet to settle down but his quality cant be put in question) but there are still areas that need to be strengthen (ex DM and AMR)

b-A non existent quality strength in depth. We have that in almost every position apart from GK and STK

Keane and Drinkwater are homegrown talent. They might not be pleasing to the eye but they know the system inside out and sure as hell they would give their 100% for us. If they fail to make the grade, who cares? Surely Keane and Drinkwater would be better options on the bench to Rojo, Jones and Frigging Fellaini.
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You have to remember that Fletcher was at United from a young age and had years of playing for the great SAF. Who knows what he could have got out of the signings we have made. Likely a lot more as there wouldn't have been the turmoil we have had in the coaching staff and management.
 
devilish said:
Its always tough to buy players in January. Prices are ridiculously high and players take time to settle down. In my opinion we should add players who might know OT and the EPL well if possible.


CB: Considering Bailly will be out either way (injury or Coppa Africa) Id go for Michael Keane. He's a good defender, he's 6.3ft tall and he knows United inside out. If he can build on his progress at Burnley then well and good. If not that we would need a replacement for Jones either way.

Midfield: Danny Drinkwater. He's a mean box to box midfielder who also knows United inside out. With him and Pogba in CM doing all the leg work we would be able to play a more experienced and less mobile CM. Someone like Blind, Bastian or Carrick

RW: we need a quick winger who can cross the ball
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How about Luke Chadwick....
 
DomesticTadpole said:
You have to remember that Fletcher was at United from a young age and had years of playing for the great SAF. Who knows what he could have got out of the signings we have made. Likely a lot more as there wouldn't have been the turmoil we have had in the coaching staff and management.
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SAF always used the same tactic he had a number of top players and then use the likes of Fletcher, OShea and Phil Nev to do what they do best ie the donkey work. At the end of his reign, the top quality players started growing old and more work horses were needed to do the leg work. Unfortunately we've inherited (and still have) a lot of donkeys and very few talent
 
Maradona10 said:
Need players who are ready and not 3 year investments. Van djik is decent but we should be aiming higher.
If we can, we should try and get an experienced center half someone who gets injured less and can be relied upon to give consistent 7/10 performances for the club. We also need a right full back who can attack and defend. Valencia has done well but he is 31 now and will need replacing. Darmian can be a good player but right now there are question marks over him. I think we need a right back and center half (atl east one if we dont sell anyone maybe 2 if we do). That should be the first priority, then we should look further. It is imperative to have a great defense to have a good league season. The defense will form a good basis for a better attack as if players are not worried about conceding only then can they trully attack without inhibtion.
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This is the wrong approach. Ever since Fergie left United, it's the main approach you've pursued - buying in big names who are supposedly more than ready, but look where its got you.

Instead, you need to build for the long-term, which means signing no players older than 26 (GKs apart), signing players who are eager to play and prove themselves at a bigger club (not players already earning large sums and being offered even more to come to United), investing more in your academy and youth set-up, and signing players who fill a specific role that fits with the way the manager wants the team to be set up (rather than collecting big names who are supposedly bound to improve the team just because they are good players).

And Van djik is a player you should go for: settled in England and the Prem, ready to step up to a bigger club, won't cost a fortune and better than most of your current CB options.
 
GlastonSpur said:
This is the wrong approach. Ever since Fergie left United, it's the main approach you've pursued - buying in big names who are supposedly more than ready, but look where its got you.

Instead, you need to build for the long-term, which means signing no players older than 26 (GKs apart), signing players who are eager to play and prove themselves at a bigger club (not players already earning large sums and being offered even more to come to United), investing more in your academy and youth set-up, and signing players who fill a specific role that fits with the way the manager wants the team to be set up (rather than collecting big names who are supposedly bound to improve the team just because they are good players).

And Van djik is a player you should go for: settled in England and the Prem, ready to step up to a bigger club, won't cost a fortune and better than most of your current CB options.
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We've done both, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Blind, Rojo, Memphis, Bailly, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Herrera and Shaw are all players who fit the bolded part of your post, the one thing we can't know is if they'll freeze under the spotlight as there are plenty of good players over the years that simply haven't coped with playing for a club like United where they are under a microscope.

I agree with you on van Dijk, he looks to be a leader and is improving all of the time, but he's not a guarentee once he's under a much larger degree of pressure, and he also wont be cheap, he's on a long contract at Southampton and with the money Stones went for they aren't gonna sell him for much less IMO.
 
GlastonSpur said:
This is the wrong approach. Ever since Fergie left United, it's the main approach you've pursued - buying in big names who are supposedly more than ready, but look where its got you.

Instead, you need to build for the long-term, which means signing no players older than 26 (GKs apart), signing players who are eager to play and prove themselves at a bigger club (not players already earning large sums and being offered even more to come to United), investing more in your academy and youth set-up, and signing players who fill a specific role that fits with the way the manager wants the team to be set up (rather than collecting big names who are supposedly bound to improve the team just because they are good players).

And Van djik is a player you should go for: settled in England and the Prem, ready to step up to a bigger club, won't cost a fortune and better than most of your current CB options.
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You are talking sense. We need a team to last not quick fixes to sell shirts.
 
Looks like Memphis and Schweini will go and I still wouldn't be surprised if we sold Darmian and Schneiderlin as well.

On the ins if we get any I think they will be defensive buys, most likely a CB and possibly a fullback. Gimenez and Lindelof are the 2 CB's being linked right now.
 
Devil may care said:
Looks like Memphis and Schweini will go and I still wouldn't be surprised if we sold Darmian and Schneiderlin as well.

On the ins if we get any I think they will be defensive buys, most likely a CB and possibly a fullback. Gimenez and Lindelof are the 2 CB's being linked right now.
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I think we'd buy one attacking player.

The problem we have is goals. So we need to address that in January.
 
A cheeky bid for Icardi or Aubameyang probably wouldn't get either but they are class acts and worth a shot. do it woody.
 
January only disappoints, maybe we'll loan out Depay, and shift Bastian, but I doubt we'll buy anyone.
 
I wouldn't bring anyone in at the moment. There's plenty of quality in the side, Mou needs to concentrate on getting more out of Martial, Rash and Mikhi rather than spending any more money.
 
Bojan11 said:
I think we'd buy one attacking player.

The problem we have is goals. So we need to address that in January.
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I'm not sure we can obtain the quality attacker we need in January though, that will probably have to wait until the summer.
 
We need a midfielder to do what Carrick does when he plays (dictates tempo and calms us down) if there is one available (and exists) we should try and buy him.
 
We should use January for making bids that we know won't get accepted for players we do not really want.

That way when City, Chelsea and Liverpool go in heavy for all those players in the summer to prove points we can focus on our real targets :p
 
I've got a feeling that United are going to be unusually busy this January. If the deals can be done

I'd say at least 2 in. Maybe 3 or 4
 
kirk buttercup said:
A cheeky bid for Icardi or Aubameyang probably wouldn't get either but they are class acts and worth a shot. do it woody.
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Aubameyang is only interested in Madrid move because of his late grandpa who was Spanish, lived 100km from Madrid and was a declared Madrid fan.

Icardi is a cnut.

That being said i think we will see more 'outs' than 'ins'. Depay almost guaranteed to leave for Everton, BFS still weighing his options and Schneiderlin can't even make the bench anymore.

With Sissoko underperforming at Spurs i can see them going for Schneiderlin yet again in hopes of pairing him up with Wanyama. But if BFS leaves don't think Mourinho will let Schneiderlin go and vice versa.
 
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C'est Moi Cantona said:
January only disappoints
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Not always.
Mata2_2802166a.jpg


Juanuary :drool:
 
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