Say what you will about Pep but he has seen the state of City, turned his nose up and used their money to transform them for next season. Unless our transfer window takes a dramatic turn Jose could learn from it.
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
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Just curious but who is the same quality thats available for the same money? Walker was pretty much the best rb in the prem last season by a fair distance, Valenica probably next. Of potential RB's who may be available Bellerin is worse and would cost at least £40m +, Alves of course whom we were clearly in for but chose PSG but I can't think of many others..
Rubbish, The CL we beat one good team under Pellers on the way to the semi's. Last season we went out to Monaco a round earlier. Under Pep we finished a place higher, earned 12 more points, scored 9 more goals and conceded 2 less than the previous season. We never looked like beating any of the big teams in the CL in either year (unless you count PSG) so the only place Pelligrini's last season really bettered Pep's was the League Cup...
People in glass houses and all that... When speaking about 1st team players....
Lukaku - 75m (I believe rising to 90 if he's a success), Lindelof - 31m, Pogba - 89m, Mkhi - 35m, Bailly - 32.5m = £262m
Ederson - 35m, Silva - £43m, Stones - 50m, Sane - 42m, Jesus - 27m, Gundogan - 23m, Bravo - 15m, Nolito - 15m = £270m
Both with the rest of a summer to go. Walker and Mendy will probably cost us 90m, Perisic and a hold midfielder will likely cost you at least 80m as well.
Jose better beat Pep to the treble or he's a shit manager.
I agree to and extent the fault has to lie with Txixi, Pep and Pellers for not getting the fullbacks done in the last 2 seasons. Our CB's I think are fine, not world class but competent and if Kompany stays fit we'll be pretty good. We had a better defensive record than Chelsea after christmas last season. Stones is a concern but I won't write him off yet. Otamendi is rash but is fine with a composed defender beside him. The key is keeping VK fit and his run of games at the end of last season was his best in awhile so I'm confident enough to take him at his word when he says his worst days are behind him.
I think Pep has learned he can't make inverted fullbacks work in the Premier League. The ball goes from back to front too fast for them to recover positions. Once we gave up on the idea bar against the weakest of teams our defence was much better even with Jesus Navas playing RB albeit Kompanys fitness played a part.
Semedo is quite good but is mainly potential and not nearly as experienced or established as Walker. Only Barca will force him away for less than the 50m Euro asking price too. No way a premier league team gets him at that money.
Theres also Walkers homegrown status to consider as we are quite light on HG players and those that are seem to be heading for Girona. Would I rather we were in for £30m Semedo than £50m Walker? Of course but as of right now. Walker is simply more valuable to City for a number of reasons.
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Considering the market we're in, and considering he's got four years left on his contract, and considering he was the best RB in the Premier League last season, and considering he's homegrown, and considering he'll be our right-back for the next four/five years, I think £50m for Walker is alright.
Or to put it another way, he's seen the state of a hugely expensive City team, decided it doesn't suit his preferences, spent a shitload of money, failed to achieve anything and is now about to spend even more money in his determination that his system will work no matter what.
That City team last season was packed with quality, and he did nothing with it. Tired of this idea that it's the team letting him down, as if the guy can do no wrong.
He is ok, but a bit over rated. Certainly no better stats wise than what they already had.
So you are saying that his 100 years old fullbacks or always injured captain Kompany or even Aguero for the most part of the season didn't let him down last year?! OK, you are entitled to your opinion but that's just BS.
He should have done more and his failure with the fullbacks is on him. I don't know where you guys get the idea people think he can do no wrong from just about every pundit bar Henry had a go at him numerous times last season as did the majority of fans.
Neville - It will defy logic winning the premier league the Pep way...
Souness - Arrogant and lucky comments..
Even Harry Redknapp had a huge go at him.
You mean the players he either chose not to replace or spunked £50m on shite replacements for? Or how about Aguero, your clubs talisman and Pep makes it clear he wants rid. But no, it's the players fault he didn't win you the league. Right...
Oh I agree with that. A good manager should be bringing the best out of his squad and adapting to use the players he inherits. And you're right that he failed to do that last season, largely down to arrogance and snobbery.
As a City fan I'll say it and I believe Pep is up there with the best managers in the world but he botched the fullbacks last season in a major way. He put way too much faith in them and spent money he could have used on them on Nolito (a waste, Stones who could be replaced with a good CB at half the price (albeit I still have faith in Stones)) so yeah along with the DoF and Pellers the season before it was easily Pep's biggest error that he started the season with those 4 fullbacks and Bravo (who I think no one could have expected to flop as he did.)
Made it clear he wants rid of Aguero, interesting... every single time he was asked about Aguero he said he wants him to stay. Thats pure an utter dross from a poster whose usually alot better. Also while I agree not replacing the fullbacks is a huge mistake whose the 50m worth of shite replacements?
Erm, Stones? As for Aguero, I have it on good authority that he was told many months ago that he isn't in Peps plans. It's possible that isn't true, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.
It's not 50m though, I swear no one knows anything apart from it's over £50....Levy knows how to bleed every penny, probably involved a chunk of Pep's soul, hands off Spurs players agreement + £60m
Oh you meant a replacement for Kompany, fair enough. I'd like to know whose authority is better my friend, whoever told you or Pep, the chairman and Sergio who have all said the same thing. I do though think Aguero frustrates the hell out of Pep but saying I have it on good authority is like some of the stuff that so called Itk supporters say. City couldn't have been clearer about Sergio's future to a man.
All that said if the chance to swap Kun for Sanchez came up I think Pep would drive him to London himself.
Agreed.
Good player at a reasonable fee. It's 2017 not 2012.
City have some incredible talent in their squad. I think they will soon be pushing for a CL title. They have the players at least.
Its widely reported at £50m which is a little too much imho but thats Levy for ya. Its been reported that the fee could rise to 53m by some papers but thats as high as I've seen it.
I do that Walker has been excellent, but a big part of it is the Poch factor. Schneiderlin looked like one of the leagues best CMs under Poch. He has turned Dele Alli into a '150m player' as well as Harry Kane. He obviously needs to go and win something some time soon but for taking players to the next level I think he's the best manager in the league
I heard they've been lining up a replacement who they haven't managed to lock down yet. I don't know who, but not Sanchez apparently. Obviously you still want Sanchez, but not as a direct replacement for Aguero.
You're right about ITK stuff, I only mention it because it came from a guy who is usually right. I also wouldn't trust a word from the clubs and managers, including my own. They'll say exactly what the best PR line is at the time. They also won't say they plan to ditch a big player if it's not happening for months/they want a good fee for him.
Not even close. How many of our first XI would start at Real or Bayern? Very few, I reckon 0 at Real, maybe just maybe Aguero for Benzema but thats it and probably with blue tinted glasses.
At Juve, none of our back 5, maybe KDB and David Silva if they changed tactic. Aguero and Higuain are about even, with the latter keeping Kun out of the international fold.
Bayern.. again no sure starters there.
We have a team like United and dare I say Chelsea who have maybe 1 or 2 players who would get a game at the real top of European football, current Barca aside as they have the most weakness, but still only maybe David Silva in midfield would get in our around the first team.
I agree but Pep is usually blunt on these things. Take Hart as an example, Yaya with the agent thing, Zlatan at Barca, Ronaldinho etc... He strikes me as a guy who doesn't give a shite if he upsets a player once he wants him out. That said you never know in football.
He's a chequebook manager like every other top manager. He's nothing special, never has been. His current ridiculous spending just to compete is why I'll always hold SAF in much higher regard.
Maybe.
I guess the problem for PL teams right now in the CL is our top players are spread around six clubs. Everywhere else has a couple max.
It's not a problem for the excitement of the title race though.
It's not; you're overpaying and you shouldn't be afraid to admit that. The top 6 are being held to ransom for their targets left, right and centre. And in the end it doesn't really matter much because he's a player you needed, and he should suit you reasonably well.
There are some similarities between Uniteds and Citys situation and the big spending by each is actually a consequence of recent failures. Both teams are paying the price for not signing / developing the right players in the past. I think the bitterness towards City comes from the relationship between their revenue and the money spent, and the high turnover of players. Both of which are becoming less and less prominent.
City - have had the oldest squad for the past three / four years, and only since Guardiola has come in since they have signed younger players. Compare the signings of Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Toure, Nasri, Fernandino etc to the more recent signings of Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Stones etc. If the older signings werent so prominent in the past, then there would not be so need to spend big like this. They way City bought in recent times, they were always going to be a high turnover club, if you keep buying players who were about 27-29. But that has changed.
United - since SAF left, there has not been much long term thought, or continuity of the type of players. United have bought mediocre players or potential players in recent times. Thankfully there are still some SAF signings who were youth and potential (Jones, Smalling, De Gea) to help out a little bit, otherwise there would be even more. We have not had a decent spine of players since they all left under Moyes, and these signings will hopefully change that. A spine of De Gea, Bailly, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Lukaka plus Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Valencia, its looking good.
City - have had the oldest squad for the past three / four years, and only since Guardiola has come in since they have signed younger players. Compare the signings of Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Toure, Nasri, Fernandino etc to the more recent signings of Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Stones etc. If the older signings werent so prominent in the past, then there would not be so need to spend big like this. They way City bought in recent times, they were always going to be a high turnover club, if you keep buying players who were about 27-29. But that has changed.
United - since SAF left, there has not been much long term thought, or continuity of the type of players. United have bought mediocre players or potential players in recent times. Thankfully there are still some SAF signings who were youth and potential (Jones, Smalling, De Gea) to help out a little bit, otherwise there would be even more. We have not had a decent spine of players since they all left under Moyes, and these signings will hopefully change that. A spine of De Gea, Bailly, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Lukaka plus Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Valencia, its looking good.
With Mendy and Walker they have a great team, especially if Kompany is over his injury issues.
Hope Ed and Jose sees this and start getting the remaining business done asap
Hope Ed and Jose sees this and start getting the remaining business done asap
Whatever the way you post it, 50 plus million for a 27 year old fullback is way too much. There wasn't any clear cut answer for who the best RB was but he lost his place, at least was rotated every game at the end of the season. There was a pic which showed how Trippier and Walker started alternate games.
This. For some reasons, people make Pellegrini City team as if they were cannon fodders. That team won League Cup, & went to CL semi final. That team for quite some period of time (longer than Pep's team last season), were in position to challenge for the title until imploded around time of the "announcement".
If Pep's philosophy is all about having better players then I think as time went his former players should get more credit (than they already had).
Pep isn't really a manager for results first, he's a manager fixated on a certain play style. He's probably the best at getting results from among similarly obsessed managers though. But to win championships, he needs some kind of advantage over the other managers to compensate for his inflexibility. That's why City suits him, they will always outspend their rivals.
Don't argue people. You both spent lots of money and have shit managers.
The argument is due to the source of the money, the percentage of the revenue spent on transfers and the frequency of transfers / turnover of players.
Not shit obviously but overrated managers for sure. Both will end up spending around 400m in first two seasons to correct the "issues" in team.
Pep is really no different to Mourinho in that respect. Cheque book managers.
This is very true. Mourinho inherited a shit team, Pep inherited a team which was regularly in CL, won a title just two seasons ago and spent 170m to improve it.
Yet when they lost to Monaco it was attributed to a lack of CL experience, as if that Monaco side had a lot of experience. They were title favorites even last season too, they still have obvious issues in midfield and defensive midfield.
Let's see how Ederson works, Bravo came from a stronger league and yet looked like a clown.
You could say that of any manager in one of Europe's top clubs. Do Zidane, Ancelotti and Conte go out there with 11 homegrown lads? One can be the greatest manager in the world and still lose games if one doesn't have the best players available.
Having said, Mourinho has proven that he can do it without the absolute top shelf talent. He won the 2004 Champions League with Porto and had Benni McCarthy as his top scorer in the CL. Let that sink in for a minute.
Always? That's very presumptuous, surely? If Guardiola was to win a treble within three years of being at City, following a significant amount of investment, can you really say that it was a better achievement then Sir Alex winning the treble after a decade of team-building, with an exceptional group of young players and with a significant amount of investment?
One difference being the original state of the teams both managers inherited. And looking at that list, Mourinho got all the transfers spot on last season (excpet partially on Mikhitaryan) while questions can be raised on the logic of some players bought by Pep. Anyway the jury is out for both of them for the next season, so let's see.
Level on points....
One won the league cup, the other the fa cup.
I don't think too much of football managers generally - I think their influence is hideously overstated in the modern game - and certainly not ones who bounce around one top club to another with an open chequebook.
That season United started by putting Fellaini as a striker and was relying on Wayne Rooney for its goals for most of its season, and putting in a 19-year old rookie towards the later part substantially improved the situation. Depay and Schniderlin were the main part of our midfield that season. We scored 49 goals, comfortably the lowest in top 8. Are you seriously suggesting that the squad was on par with City? The only reason they reached level on points with us was that they downed their tools when Pep was prematurely announced and only galvanised when there was a threat to falling out of top 4.
Plus I don't agree that the influence of managers is overstated. Maybe for international managers but the club managers shape the entirety of the team through transfers and simply having money is no guarantee to achieving success. Look at LVG for an example. Also, how Conte galvanised Chelsea in winning the league. Of course as I said, jury is out even on Jose and Pep on whether they will be successful either.
Having said that, there was a lot of top shelf talent there.
Not bad considering that he had Maniche, Deco, Ricardo Carvalho, Paulo Ferreira, and Costinha to boot. They formed the crux of the golden generation of the Portuguese side that lost out after coming so desperately close to winning at Euro 2004.
He did pick up the side and outplayed several sides that were some notches higher but you cannot claim that Porto side lacked quality; it did anything but.
I quite agree with you there - but Poch is just a level below the top strata of managers for a reason. Though his style of play is commendable and has brought out some real gems for several years now, a coaching career without much silverware means he would be judged based on the lack of it. Believe me when I say you have me watching in awe (mostly when United have been exposed oft late at the Lane) when Spurs transition from defence to attack like a well oiled machine.
But what good is "taking players up to the next level" - any other top manager would surely have at least the EFL Cup once, with the side Poch's got. Harry Redknapp and Roberto Martinez have led Portsmouth and Wigan to unexpected cup victories, mind you.
No they don't have the players for a CL win. Their centre midfield is lacking in quality and their defence is still suspect however if they get Mendy too that'd be a good transfer for them. Also their offense isn't strong enough to win the CL.