He is ok, but a bit over rated. Certainly no better stats wise than what they already had.
Manchester City under Pep Guardiola | Pep on City v Liverpool ref: "He likes to be special"
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He is ok, but a bit over rated. Certainly no better stats wise than what they already had.
So you are saying that his 100 years old fullbacks or always injured captain Kompany or even Aguero for the most part of the season didn't let him down last year?! OK, you are entitled to your opinion but that's just BS.
He should have done more and his failure with the fullbacks is on him. I don't know where you guys get the idea people think he can do no wrong from just about every pundit bar Henry had a go at him numerous times last season as did the majority of fans.
Neville - It will defy logic winning the premier league the Pep way...
Souness - Arrogant and lucky comments..
Even Harry Redknapp had a huge go at him.
You mean the players he either chose not to replace or spunked £50m on shite replacements for? Or how about Aguero, your clubs talisman and Pep makes it clear he wants rid. But no, it's the players fault he didn't win you the league. Right...
Oh I agree with that. A good manager should be bringing the best out of his squad and adapting to use the players he inherits. And you're right that he failed to do that last season, largely down to arrogance and snobbery.
As a City fan I'll say it and I believe Pep is up there with the best managers in the world but he botched the fullbacks last season in a major way. He put way too much faith in them and spent money he could have used on them on Nolito (a waste, Stones who could be replaced with a good CB at half the price (albeit I still have faith in Stones)) so yeah along with the DoF and Pellers the season before it was easily Pep's biggest error that he started the season with those 4 fullbacks and Bravo (who I think no one could have expected to flop as he did.)
Made it clear he wants rid of Aguero, interesting... every single time he was asked about Aguero he said he wants him to stay. Thats pure an utter dross from a poster whose usually alot better. Also while I agree not replacing the fullbacks is a huge mistake whose the 50m worth of shite replacements?
Erm, Stones? As for Aguero, I have it on good authority that he was told many months ago that he isn't in Peps plans. It's possible that isn't true, but I guess we'll find out soon enough.
It's not 50m though, I swear no one knows anything apart from it's over £50....Levy knows how to bleed every penny, probably involved a chunk of Pep's soul, hands off Spurs players agreement + £60m
Oh you meant a replacement for Kompany, fair enough. I'd like to know whose authority is better my friend, whoever told you or Pep, the chairman and Sergio who have all said the same thing. I do though think Aguero frustrates the hell out of Pep but saying I have it on good authority is like some of the stuff that so called Itk supporters say. City couldn't have been clearer about Sergio's future to a man.
All that said if the chance to swap Kun for Sanchez came up I think Pep would drive him to London himself.
Agreed.
Good player at a reasonable fee. It's 2017 not 2012.
City have some incredible talent in their squad. I think they will soon be pushing for a CL title. They have the players at least.
Its widely reported at £50m which is a little too much imho but thats Levy for ya. Its been reported that the fee could rise to 53m by some papers but thats as high as I've seen it.
I do that Walker has been excellent, but a big part of it is the Poch factor. Schneiderlin looked like one of the leagues best CMs under Poch. He has turned Dele Alli into a '150m player' as well as Harry Kane. He obviously needs to go and win something some time soon but for taking players to the next level I think he's the best manager in the league
I heard they've been lining up a replacement who they haven't managed to lock down yet. I don't know who, but not Sanchez apparently. Obviously you still want Sanchez, but not as a direct replacement for Aguero.
You're right about ITK stuff, I only mention it because it came from a guy who is usually right. I also wouldn't trust a word from the clubs and managers, including my own. They'll say exactly what the best PR line is at the time. They also won't say they plan to ditch a big player if it's not happening for months/they want a good fee for him.
Not even close. How many of our first XI would start at Real or Bayern? Very few, I reckon 0 at Real, maybe just maybe Aguero for Benzema but thats it and probably with blue tinted glasses.
At Juve, none of our back 5, maybe KDB and David Silva if they changed tactic. Aguero and Higuain are about even, with the latter keeping Kun out of the international fold.
Bayern.. again no sure starters there.
We have a team like United and dare I say Chelsea who have maybe 1 or 2 players who would get a game at the real top of European football, current Barca aside as they have the most weakness, but still only maybe David Silva in midfield would get in our around the first team.
I agree but Pep is usually blunt on these things. Take Hart as an example, Yaya with the agent thing, Zlatan at Barca, Ronaldinho etc... He strikes me as a guy who doesn't give a shite if he upsets a player once he wants him out. That said you never know in football.
He's a chequebook manager like every other top manager. He's nothing special, never has been. His current ridiculous spending just to compete is why I'll always hold SAF in much higher regard.
Maybe.
I guess the problem for PL teams right now in the CL is our top players are spread around six clubs. Everywhere else has a couple max.
It's not a problem for the excitement of the title race though.
It's not; you're overpaying and you shouldn't be afraid to admit that. The top 6 are being held to ransom for their targets left, right and centre. And in the end it doesn't really matter much because he's a player you needed, and he should suit you reasonably well.
There are some similarities between Uniteds and Citys situation and the big spending by each is actually a consequence of recent failures. Both teams are paying the price for not signing / developing the right players in the past. I think the bitterness towards City comes from the relationship between their revenue and the money spent, and the high turnover of players. Both of which are becoming less and less prominent.
City - have had the oldest squad for the past three / four years, and only since Guardiola has come in since they have signed younger players. Compare the signings of Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Toure, Nasri, Fernandino etc to the more recent signings of Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Stones etc. If the older signings werent so prominent in the past, then there would not be so need to spend big like this. They way City bought in recent times, they were always going to be a high turnover club, if you keep buying players who were about 27-29. But that has changed.
United - since SAF left, there has not been much long term thought, or continuity of the type of players. United have bought mediocre players or potential players in recent times. Thankfully there are still some SAF signings who were youth and potential (Jones, Smalling, De Gea) to help out a little bit, otherwise there would be even more. We have not had a decent spine of players since they all left under Moyes, and these signings will hopefully change that. A spine of De Gea, Bailly, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Lukaka plus Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Valencia, its looking good.
City - have had the oldest squad for the past three / four years, and only since Guardiola has come in since they have signed younger players. Compare the signings of Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Toure, Nasri, Fernandino etc to the more recent signings of Sterling, Sane, Jesus, Stones etc. If the older signings werent so prominent in the past, then there would not be so need to spend big like this. They way City bought in recent times, they were always going to be a high turnover club, if you keep buying players who were about 27-29. But that has changed.
United - since SAF left, there has not been much long term thought, or continuity of the type of players. United have bought mediocre players or potential players in recent times. Thankfully there are still some SAF signings who were youth and potential (Jones, Smalling, De Gea) to help out a little bit, otherwise there would be even more. We have not had a decent spine of players since they all left under Moyes, and these signings will hopefully change that. A spine of De Gea, Bailly, Herrera, Pogba, Mata, Lukaka plus Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Valencia, its looking good.
With Mendy and Walker they have a great team, especially if Kompany is over his injury issues.
Hope Ed and Jose sees this and start getting the remaining business done asap
Hope Ed and Jose sees this and start getting the remaining business done asap
Whatever the way you post it, 50 plus million for a 27 year old fullback is way too much. There wasn't any clear cut answer for who the best RB was but he lost his place, at least was rotated every game at the end of the season. There was a pic which showed how Trippier and Walker started alternate games.
This. For some reasons, people make Pellegrini City team as if they were cannon fodders. That team won League Cup, & went to CL semi final. That team for quite some period of time (longer than Pep's team last season), were in position to challenge for the title until imploded around time of the "announcement".
If Pep's philosophy is all about having better players then I think as time went his former players should get more credit (than they already had).
Pep isn't really a manager for results first, he's a manager fixated on a certain play style. He's probably the best at getting results from among similarly obsessed managers though. But to win championships, he needs some kind of advantage over the other managers to compensate for his inflexibility. That's why City suits him, they will always outspend their rivals.
Don't argue people. You both spent lots of money and have shit managers.
The argument is due to the source of the money, the percentage of the revenue spent on transfers and the frequency of transfers / turnover of players.
Not shit obviously but overrated managers for sure. Both will end up spending around 400m in first two seasons to correct the "issues" in team.
Pep is really no different to Mourinho in that respect. Cheque book managers.
This is very true. Mourinho inherited a shit team, Pep inherited a team which was regularly in CL, won a title just two seasons ago and spent 170m to improve it.
Yet when they lost to Monaco it was attributed to a lack of CL experience, as if that Monaco side had a lot of experience. They were title favorites even last season too, they still have obvious issues in midfield and defensive midfield.
Let's see how Ederson works, Bravo came from a stronger league and yet looked like a clown.
You could say that of any manager in one of Europe's top clubs. Do Zidane, Ancelotti and Conte go out there with 11 homegrown lads? One can be the greatest manager in the world and still lose games if one doesn't have the best players available.
Having said, Mourinho has proven that he can do it without the absolute top shelf talent. He won the 2004 Champions League with Porto and had Benni McCarthy as his top scorer in the CL. Let that sink in for a minute.
Always? That's very presumptuous, surely? If Guardiola was to win a treble within three years of being at City, following a significant amount of investment, can you really say that it was a better achievement then Sir Alex winning the treble after a decade of team-building, with an exceptional group of young players and with a significant amount of investment?
One difference being the original state of the teams both managers inherited. And looking at that list, Mourinho got all the transfers spot on last season (excpet partially on Mikhitaryan) while questions can be raised on the logic of some players bought by Pep. Anyway the jury is out for both of them for the next season, so let's see.
Level on points....
One won the league cup, the other the fa cup.
I don't think too much of football managers generally - I think their influence is hideously overstated in the modern game - and certainly not ones who bounce around one top club to another with an open chequebook.
That season United started by putting Fellaini as a striker and was relying on Wayne Rooney for its goals for most of its season, and putting in a 19-year old rookie towards the later part substantially improved the situation. Depay and Schniderlin were the main part of our midfield that season. We scored 49 goals, comfortably the lowest in top 8. Are you seriously suggesting that the squad was on par with City? The only reason they reached level on points with us was that they downed their tools when Pep was prematurely announced and only galvanised when there was a threat to falling out of top 4.
Plus I don't agree that the influence of managers is overstated. Maybe for international managers but the club managers shape the entirety of the team through transfers and simply having money is no guarantee to achieving success. Look at LVG for an example. Also, how Conte galvanised Chelsea in winning the league. Of course as I said, jury is out even on Jose and Pep on whether they will be successful either.
Having said that, there was a lot of top shelf talent there.
Not bad considering that he had Maniche, Deco, Ricardo Carvalho, Paulo Ferreira, and Costinha to boot. They formed the crux of the golden generation of the Portuguese side that lost out after coming so desperately close to winning at Euro 2004.
He did pick up the side and outplayed several sides that were some notches higher but you cannot claim that Porto side lacked quality; it did anything but.
I quite agree with you there - but Poch is just a level below the top strata of managers for a reason. Though his style of play is commendable and has brought out some real gems for several years now, a coaching career without much silverware means he would be judged based on the lack of it. Believe me when I say you have me watching in awe (mostly when United have been exposed oft late at the Lane) when Spurs transition from defence to attack like a well oiled machine.
But what good is "taking players up to the next level" - any other top manager would surely have at least the EFL Cup once, with the side Poch's got. Harry Redknapp and Roberto Martinez have led Portsmouth and Wigan to unexpected cup victories, mind you.
No they don't have the players for a CL win. Their centre midfield is lacking in quality and their defence is still suspect however if they get Mendy too that'd be a good transfer for them. Also their offense isn't strong enough to win the CL.
This is my point , when you say 'with the side he's got' we are talking about wanyama dier kane alli walker rose etc. Nobody 4 years ago said they would be the best players in the league. Wonder would they be anywhere near at good without poch
City's squad is and has been overrated. Every year for about six years they've been talked up on here at the start of a season as the team to beat and how they can run away with it. Then their poor depth, poor defensive options and aging core get unraveled. Time and again.
As for the managers, what I mean is they get too much credit when things go well, too much criticism when they don't. Once upon a time I used to side by the idea the manager is the most important person at the club but not for a long while now. Us having Sir Alex for all those years clouded things but he was the last of his kind. Now we are just another club who will have cycles of 3-4 years most likely. The people behind the scenes are the custodians of the club.
In addition, there is only so much a manager can do. Barking instructions on the touchline looks the right thing to a fan, but I'm doubtful whether they make a real difference in a cauldron of thousands of loud supporters. The cult of personality also makes me cynical towards how important a manager is. For example 'he lost the dressing room' is code for 'they didn't like him'. Out goes that manager, in comes another and booom......immediately things pick up......'new manager bounce'.
Agreed no manager in these crazy times would have taken a punt on them being as good as they have turned out to be, let alone become full England internationals. Like I said, there's no doubting the tremendous work he's done. But you would find it hard to argue - without winning any trophy, it doesn't really crown all his efforts to bring Spurs upto the pedestal they are at now. Same went for the superb Bayern team of 2012, everyone felt it was a pity till they lost to Chelsea before they made amends by winning the treble next year.
I am saying that once this Spurs side reached its potential, it then becomes anyone's guess so as to why they are not able to win a trophy. Has it got to do more with the manager and his inability to transform a good side into a great one? Only time will tell; I do hope they win sooner than later.
Having said that, there was a lot of top shelf talent there.
Not bad considering that he had Maniche, Deco, Ricardo Carvalho, Paulo Ferreira, and Costinha to boot. They formed the crux of the golden generation of the Portuguese side that lost out after coming so desperately close to winning at Euro 2004.
He did pick up the side and outplayed several sides that were some notches higher but you cannot claim that Porto side lacked quality; it did anything but.
Read carefully. I did not claim it lacked quality. I said the did not have the "absolute" top shelf talent. You know, the kinds of players that the likes of Madrid, United or Bayern buy. And certainly the kinds of players that Guardiola has had at Barsa, Bayern and now City.
Porto 2003/2004 had a very good squad, specially on midfield and defense. Mourinho did an impressive job with them though.